New
Jul 27, 2022 5:04 PM
#1
Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! |
Jul 27, 2022 5:11 PM
#2
For those who read all that u a legend |
Jul 27, 2022 5:15 PM
#3
KingPeaceM2 said: For those who read all that u a legend nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend |
Jul 27, 2022 5:16 PM
#4
i'm sorry man i don't have the attention span to read all that, i'm sure it was great tho. big ups ayanokoji |
Jul 27, 2022 5:16 PM
#5
Samyeaager said: KingPeaceM2 said: For those who read all that u a legend nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend Very true(char limit) |
Jul 27, 2022 5:21 PM
#6
Nice thread, I've been trying to tell this to people that say 'ayanokoji is an edgy character who just use other people as tools' and I can't blame them because that's how the anime portraits him. He literally just wants to make memories in these 3 years of school and discover New emotions. |
Jul 27, 2022 5:25 PM
#7
bro I can't believe I seriously read all that , it was really interesting though I'll take this in mind when I watch the episode that dropped on Monday |
Jul 27, 2022 5:31 PM
#8
Welp, this guy really convinced me to regain that hope I had for COTE. If only Lerche couldn't fuck up anymore... |
Jul 27, 2022 5:40 PM
#9
i don’t have the patience to read 10 paragraphs, but it probably has some important stuff there. i’m just gonna enjoy the rest of the season. |
Jul 27, 2022 6:26 PM
#10
Miserable_Crow said: Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! Thank you for this info, I was wondering what was up with this character I thought He seemed kinda distant from his emotions and the scenes from when He was little made me go what is his story? |
Jul 27, 2022 6:52 PM
#11
ur a king man i’m a LN reader and i read all of that lmao essay on point anyways yessss like his relationship with manabu OMG BEST THING EVER he acknowledged him and wished for things and it was like so nice to read that yk like it was some truly genuine (idk how to spell that lol) feelings |
Jul 27, 2022 8:20 PM
#13
Samyeaager said: KingPeaceM2 said: For those who read all that u a legend nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend I always thought they were joking, but wow. Found the people that this thread here is talking about: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2030259 |
Keep scrolling |
Jul 27, 2022 9:54 PM
#14
I read all of it haha |
Jul 27, 2022 10:46 PM
#15
Samyeaager said: KingPeaceM2 said: For those who read all that u a legend nah, the dude who wrote it is the actual legend fr, i don't like it when people say " i am not reading it" then just don't and piss off without writing anything on a thread that you didn't read. |
Jul 27, 2022 10:47 PM
#16
Yeah that's one of the real reasons why Kiyotaka Ayanokoji and Kei Karuizawa only belongs to each other and no one else, both are traumatized people they need each other. |
Jul 27, 2022 11:05 PM
#17
kycnui said: Welp, this guy really convinced me to regain that hope I had for COTE. If only Lerche couldn't fuck up anymore... Just go read the novels at this point. Expecting lerche not to fuck up is like expecting pedophiles not to grooms minors |
Jul 28, 2022 3:09 AM
#19
Very good explanation I want to show this to my friend but he won't bother.. :( |
Jul 28, 2022 3:56 AM
#20
Thats some very valuable information for anime onlys like me and also fantastically written. I don't understand how people can have difficulties getting through some slightly longer texts if they are written this good. |
Jul 28, 2022 6:00 AM
#21
Jul 28, 2022 6:13 AM
#22
Thank you, you now made me actually interested in this show. |
Jul 28, 2022 9:58 AM
#24
Miserable_Crow said: Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! i would like to add few things and correct one no he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE he actially have 2 mindsets one who wants to be normal human and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning) that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei) |
Jul 28, 2022 10:46 AM
#25
The fact that ayano wants to change is actually interesting and i hoped it would be revealed later by ok. |
Jul 28, 2022 3:04 PM
#26
NaughtySempai said: Miserable_Crow said: Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! i would like to add few things and correct one no he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE he actially have 2 mindsets one who wants to be normal human and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning) that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei) yeah i was kinda confused on why op didn’t mention this fact. his white room mindset makes it so he has to win. he will do everything in his power to win. however he hates this and is searching to lose. because if he loses, he proves the white room and his father wrong. which is ultimately his final goal. current ln is kinda cool cause he’s basically trying to nurture horikitas class into one that can defeat him. |
Jul 28, 2022 3:06 PM
#27
same the main problem that I have with anime is kiyotaka's character. like he litrally looks like a fatherless edgy 13 year old kid in anime. |
"No one can rewrite the stars How can you say you'll be mine? Everything keeps us apart And I'm not the one you were meant to find It's not up to you you It's not up to me When everyone tells us what we can be How can we rewrite the stars?" |
Jul 28, 2022 4:39 PM
#28
I read it. I read it but I just looked at words and didn’t bother to understand it. So whatever point you are trying to get across (if there even was a point) I totally understand it |
Jul 28, 2022 7:19 PM
#30
i feel like this is pretty heavy spoilers to be fair, feel like how the anime portrays his character is on purpose and isn't direct. you are supposed to guess and slowly start to see his real goals and what he really wants and how his character progresses throughout the anime |
Jul 28, 2022 8:42 PM
#32
Miserable_Crow said: Great job bro. I wanna seeing post like this moreHi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! |
Jul 29, 2022 7:38 AM
#33
Thank god someone said it, I hated all the anime watchers who misunderstood him and loving him from the wrong reasons |
Jul 29, 2022 10:07 AM
#34
I feel like I just had the entire series spoiled to me… oh well I guess. I’ll be looking at Ayano in new light from here on. |
Jul 30, 2022 2:21 AM
#35
INSANELYWP said: NaughtySempai said: Miserable_Crow said: Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! i would like to add few things and correct one no he don't see friends as a friends but as a tool he was raised as a perfect guy who can do anything he is searching for someone to defeat him , this is the main motivation for his help and making them strong so that when times comes and people became strong(horikta ) he can compete and LOSE he actially have 2 mindsets one who wants to be normal human and other who wants to win( his dad's conditioning) that is why he try to hold his power sometimes but unable to do so( like in grip strength with sudo , or with kei) yeah i was kinda confused on why op didn’t mention this fact. his white room mindset makes it so he has to win. he will do everything in his power to win. however he hates this and is searching to lose. because if he loses, he proves the white room and his father wrong. which is ultimately his final goal. current ln is kinda cool cause he’s basically trying to nurture horikitas class into one that can defeat him. yeah sadly anime is not able to show these traits of ayanokoji which causing many anime only to mistake him as cold hearted overpowered one dimensional character |
Jul 30, 2022 2:27 AM
#36
r/im14andthisisdeep is something you frequent often ain't it ? |
Jul 30, 2022 10:36 AM
#38
Miserable_Crow said: Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! Thanks for sharing this with us too, my attention span is probably less than a goldfish but I can finish it without a problem. Not praising you but your literature skill is great! |
Jul 30, 2022 1:39 PM
#39
If only a high-budget studio came along to invest in a faithful COTE adaptation of the SECOND HIGHEST RATED LIGHT NOVEL on mal. Instead, you have giant studios like A-1 and Shaft adapting poorly written shows like Nisekoi and Sols with no substance. Oh well, at least it wont be as badly done as Shield hero season 2, god rest its soul. |
Jojomamabizarre1Jul 30, 2022 1:53 PM
Jul 30, 2022 7:16 PM
#40
I'm sure I saw something similar in Facebook just today XD. He wanting to change doesn't take away the fact that he is still edgy for the very easons he is the way he is, no matter how much he hates it. |
Jul 31, 2022 5:04 PM
#41
This is good to know... but I wish they gave him SOME human traits before they made him into what he is. Watching the same edgy asshole for two seasons without any change starts to drag on because by making him into the equivalent of a machiavellian corpse the watcher has very little to empathize with. Unless you have a god/superiority complex. More power to you if so. |
Nov 21, 2022 1:13 AM
#42
Unfortunately if I had read all this, it would have done away with what I liked about the MC. So rather than letting you ruin Ayanokouji for me, I'll let s3 do it instead. If what you've written is true, than the anime will become less appealing for me and the MC will be the main reason for it. I hope you're wrong, but thank you for taking the time to defend the show. |
May 25, 2023 4:26 AM
#43
Miserable_Crow said: I also wanna share my take on Ayanokoji's character. He's often seen as cold and only caring about winning, but he's actually an unreliable narrator. Raised in a competitve environment, he shut down his emotions to survive. Ayanokoji despises his true nature and strives to change. In the anime, we witness his attempts to be an average guy, helping others. But when pushed, he reverts to his "tool" mentality out of self-preservation. Ayanokoji's conflicting desires and journey of self- transformation make for a captivating storyline.Hi guys, so season 2 has started and I decided to take a peek at the discussions today... and wow are some of them fierce. Personally I like the anime and I don't think LN readers should ruin the experience for anime-onlys, but there is a certain aspect that the anime doesn't portray as well simply by nature of the medium. Basically, I just want to expand a bit more on Ayanokoji's character here so that you can (hopefully) have a better experience watching. I think one of the best things about COTE is Ayanokoji himself, and you will have a richer experience viewing the events actually knowing what Ayanokoji's mindset is. There's no reasons for Ayanokoji to hide his true abilities. He only cares about people as tools. He's edgy. -these are the assumptions that a lot of people have. These are fair assumptions, since the anime certainly presents Ayanokoji this way. But, as you probably know from the LN/LN readers, Ayanokoji is an extremely unreliable narrator. I'll try not to spoil anything here beyond what the first season has already told us in my explanation. The short explanation is: Ayanokoji is a lot like Kei, and a lot of how he acts is actually a defense mechanism. The long explanation is: Ayanokoji was brought up in an environment where victory was everything. That was a concept instilled in him since he was a small child. Everything was a competition and friendship was impossible. It's stated in the LN that as a child, when he saw what happened to the 'losers', at first he felt fear and anxiety... but eventually he felt nothing. He had to completely shut down his emotions to survive. And okay, sorry, minor spoiler here because the rest of this explanation literally wouldn't make sense without it - but if you don't want any spoilers at all, please just refer to the 'Ayanokoji is like Kei' explanation. Sooo the reason why Ayanokoji was in that environment in the first place was because his father is a top contender for 'Most Awful Anime Dad' award who wanted to create a perfect tool (Ayanokoji). Ayanokoji obviously hates this and escapes, both to mess up his dad's plans and for himself. So Ayanokoji applies to Advanced Nurturing School, where his father can't reach him (because the school is supposed to be cut off from the rest of the world). The thing is, Ayanokoji's 'true' personality is a lot like his dad's, because, well, his dad raised him to be that way. He's cold, ruthless, and only cares about victory. BUT, and this is a big but - Ayanokoji hates this. He hates his father. He hates that mentality. He hates... himself. On one hand, he wants to change. On the other hand, he doesn't know how to change. The first half of the COTE anime, or the first 2 volumes of the LN is Ayanokoji's beginner attempts to change. He adopts a persona that is as different from his 'true' self as could be - a persona that he believes to be 'human' rather than a 'monster'. He is an average teenage boy who tries to help others (Ichinose, Sakura, etc) if he truly sees them in trouble. Of course, his lack of understanding of what 'average' entails and his lack of social skills makes him REALLY BAD AT BEING NORMAL but he's trying. This is not Ayanokoji being fake for the sake of it. This is Ayanokoji trying his best to become what he thinks is an ideal human. Ayanokoji genuinely doesn't want to compete anymore. He applied to the school to get away from all of that. This is why he is always reactionary, and even though he was suspicious of the Points system from the beginning, he didn't pursue it. He just wants a normal life.I remember myself not wanting to impress anyone in high school with my high knowledge and everytime I would get a big assignment to write essays,I would ease my way out of it because I didn’t want to waste my energy on such little things,also because I knew I have a reliable service I can handle it to.I even remember the name of the site even after 4 years from that day: https://assignmentbro.com/pay-for-assignment This is one of my best findings from high school times.Hope someone will find it useful as I did. Then the teacher of Class D finds out about Ayanokoji's abilities and threatens to expel him if he doesn't advance their class to A. This would send Ayanokoji right back to his father whom he hates... ugh can we have more teachers like Koro-sensei and less like Chabashira? So at this point, the flip is switched. Ayanokoji now HAS to win. But how does he win? Is a few months of acting sorta friendly with people enough to change his sixteen years of conditioning? Haha. No it's not. In the real world, people either grow up to be completely like their parents or the complete opposite of their parents, right? It's because that's the example we saw in our developmental years, so we literally do not know any other way to live. It's the same with Ayanokoji. When push comes to shove, he reverts to the 'tool' mentality, because he doesn't know any other way to live. I would argue that in his past environment, Ayanokoji... actually disassociated whenever he had competition. He had to suppress his emotions to live. So when Chabashira gave him the ultimatum, it triggered the trauma and the disassociation again. How did Ayanokoji survive in the past? He was ruthless and didn't get concerned over others. So how will he survive this time? He doesn't know anything EXCEPT to be ruthless and to distance himself from others. But Ayanokoji is an unreliable narrator. Even though he says he views everyone as tools, it's also clear from some of his subtle actions and narration that he genuinely wants to help his friends and for them to be happy. He just needs to justify it to himself as something for 'victory', because that's all he's supposed to care about. Remember, he is used to suppressing his own desires and emotions for victory, because of how he was brought up. On the other hand he wants to become different than how he currently is, but he doesn't think he has the power to do that himself... And this is where Ayanokoji is, mentally, for Season 2. You could say a big theme for COTE is: Can people change? How does someone change? Ayanokoji is still in the process of that. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps you understand Ayanokoji's motives a bit better, and enjoy the anime even more! |
Wladis21Jun 1, 2023 4:25 AM
Aug 1, 2023 2:34 PM
#44
Oh, that makes total sense. Didn't know the adaptation of the anime was this bad. Guess the reason why he's somewhat normal in the manga is because of the LNs way of presenting his actual feelings. I mean, you gotta make the MC OP and badass in a anime with a school setting with geniuses, or no great amounts of profit I guess. This really motivates me to read the LN, though I would want to see whether the manga also has a shit adaptation or not. I am not really keen on reading LNs that much. Thanks for the clarification. |
yes. |
Apr 7, 2:22 AM
#45
Thanks for this, cleared up a few things for me, especially with the spoiler regarding his past with his dad and the White Room. Though some of this is pretty obvious for the people that paid attention to the show. Ayanokoji has repeatedly wondered if he could truly change his ways. Looking forward to the rest of the series. |
Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
Nov 16, 12:27 AM
#46
Law Assignment Help offers expert guidance in legal research and writing, ensuring students deliver high-quality assignments that meet academic requirements. |
Australia Law Writers Gmail : enquiry@australialawwriters.com Website : https://www.australialawwriters.com/ |
Nov 16, 2:58 AM
#47
Assignment Help in Australia provides tailored assistance in analyzing legal issues, structuring arguments, and writing effectively, ensuring assignments are of high academic quality. |
Nov 16, 4:48 AM
#48
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