Avenger Episode 13 Discussion

What did you think of this episode?

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Sep 4, 2008 3:47 PM

formosan

Offline

Aug 2008

638

THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Aaaaaargh!

I wanted to love this series so much.

I kept watching, wanting it to get better.

Speedy and the heroine had such potential when they first met, and it went nowhere!

The heroine and her doll had no relationship to speak of. They just travelled together because it seemed like a thing to do...

If it had been less promising, I would have dropped it. But I watched it and it broke my heart with its squandered potential.

Sep 8, 2008 5:53 AM

Avid_Reader

Offline

Feb 2008

420

The ending seems a little rushed and the producers seem to have been out of ideas, thus leaving some unanswered question and inconsistencies. For instance, they should have at least tried to explain the heroine's "hidden powers" in the endgame fight or Nei's "awakening" or the reason why the moon people were a threat to Mars (other things as well)...

On a different note, Ali Project must die. Seriously.

Aug 21, 2009 5:24 PM

Ishikabe

Offline

Sep 2007

227

I must say I'm kind of annoyed.
On one side, we've got great slow pacing, brilliant mood and sublime music. On the other, the story which was not explained in much detail and the relationships between the characters which felt kinda shallow...
It kinda felt like a template for a story to be honest ^^'
I guess it's one of these things where they wanted to leave it for open interpretation... I think...
Still I cannot understand how anyone can say that the music wasn't good, since it really made this show in terms of mood ^^'
Don't know why, but I get the feeling the show was still really good, even though I'm totally confused now. 7/10 will be sufficient ^^

Nov 10, 2010 9:05 AM

Murbella

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Oct 2008

313

Huh what? The ending made no sense at all.

-The planet suddenly got covered by water (nei's powers maybe?)?
-nei had no gender and picked a gender (a girl?)?
-layla decided her reason for journeying was nei and then at the end walked away after laughing/crying?
-nei didn't go with layla at the end after following her around the whole time?
-the moon thing was never explained?

This was one of those anime that could have been really great if it had twice the episodes which explained more things (such as the whole damn moon thing and nei super power thing), but the end result just leaves me wanting more.

The fight scenes were nice though. I also liked the music as well.

Apr 15, 2011 12:50 PM

ShadowBlazer3000

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Mar 2008

768

Baphomet said:

On a different note, Ali Project must die. Seriously.

Actually I think this is one of Ali Project's better works.

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Nov 25, 2012 8:23 PM

animela

Offline

Nov 2012

This series is similar in tone to Claymore; the lead character is a female warrior with a child. Also, its aesthetic ambience reminds me of Uragiri wa Boku no Namae o Shitteiru.

Oct 30, 2013 3:42 PM

EZSPECIAL

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Jan 2012

404

I was scared by the average rating but I'm glad I watched it, the story could use 2 or 3 episodes more or it could've used the first ones differently, the last 5 episodes reveal a lot more than the whole series up to that point. The music is definitely the best part and I've been enjoying ALI PROJECT ever since I found out who made the music for this. Overall I'm going with 7 (good), it kept my interest and was enjoyable

EZSPECIALOct 30, 2013 3:51 PM

Feb 25, 2014 7:51 PM

Stark700

Offline

Nov 2011

129497

Tbh this show felt lifeless even towards the end. The main characters lack personalities and the final fight was barely just okay. I liked some of the dialogues of this show though and the music is also something worth mention. But still, the story didn't catch my interest..

5/10.

Mar 19, 2014 9:14 AM

TwinZero

Offline

Mar 2014

Avenger quite paradoxical work: atmospheric baroque as submitted intertwine it with the post-apocalyptic cosmic than technological, which is observed in the chart anime, and the soundtrack (where techno arrange gloomy Gothic passages - something like creating his music Malice mizer). The paradoxical nature of anime and that the subject of his inarticulate, but mysterious; dialogues too voluminous and informative, but regarded with interest.

May 14, 2014 6:09 PM

#10

Fujaku

Offline

Sep 2012

343

This show had such premise but was so boring. The characters had no personality and nothing interesting really happened. 5/10 stars. The art was good and Ali Project did a good job doing the music. Even if all of their songs sound the same, at least it's a good song.

Another page to the history of the Fujaku.

Mar 17, 2015 1:45 PM

#11

Hellbender87

Offline

Sep 2011

627

Murbella said:
Huh what? The ending made no sense at all.

-The planet suddenly got covered by water (nei's powers maybe?)?
-nei had no gender and picked a gender (a girl?)?
-layla decided her reason for journeying was nei and then at the end walked away after laughing/crying?
-nei didn't go with layla at the end after following her around the whole time?
-the moon thing was never explained?

This was one of those anime that could have been really great if it had twice the episodes which explained more things (such as the whole damn moon thing and nei super power thing), but the end result just leaves me wanting more.

The fight scenes were nice though. I also liked the music as well.

And with many other things left unexplained, I can't help but feel cheated afterwards.

Hellbender87Mar 17, 2015 4:10 PM

Jul 15, 2015 8:21 PM

#12

malvarez1

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Aug 2010

3014

One of the worst endings I have seen in years. My god.

Bum Bum Dum Dum

Oct 8, 2015 3:43 AM

#13

lalabella

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Apr 2014

1139

The fuck just happened. Nothing made sense in the end and I'm so confused.

May 21, 2017 9:15 PM

#14

jedman

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May 2015

193

Anyone care to explain what actually happened at the end?

Jun 4, 2017 6:25 PM

#15

Noirlax

Offline

Aug 2007

jedman said:
Anyone care to explain what actually happened at the end?

Avenger is quite open to interpretation (sort of like an art film or indie film) but in my opinion this might signify her starting the true meaning of her journey and transformation. Remember Cross telling her to abandon her revenge and find the true meaning of her journey. She abandons her dog tags (symbols of her past and pain) is also symbolic of that in my opinion.

Sep 17, 2019 2:01 PM

#16

BlaizeV

Offline

Aug 2012

491

I'm guessing Nei was basically evolving and became not a human of earth but a human of mars, a martian? Also the moon getting closer to Mars meant the ice caps melted which should lead to the planet coming back to life. The cloud being the first sign of that.

This battle also brought about the end of the current world order, the original settlers so focused on the need to survive that they forgot to adapt. This was Cross' message and why he left the group. Volk destroyed the ship with a young Layla on it in order to survive and protect his own people and in his mind there simply not being enough supplies to go around. Cross' probably saw it that the ship could have been a valuable resource full of supplies, technology and the minds of the many humans onboard. So Cross saves Layla and basically goes about building her up for her mission to end the current world order and hopefully in turn breath new life into the planet and its people.

Buuuut not everything really makes sense and that is this shows major problem. It has an interesting enough plot but it's executed so poorly and told so slowly that the show just becomes a chore after not too long. I know some people like slower shows and while they aren't my favourite thing I'm not against them but in the case of Avenger the slow methodical pacing of the series coupled with the obtuse storytelling meant the show was dying a slow death episode by episode.

This story would make an okay film but at 13 episodes it just too long. Not enough actually happens and often what does isn't enough to explain what needs to be explained which is very disappointing.

So like most people who watched this show it seems I feel as though the show had great potential but falls far short of realizing it. So in the end I gave this series a lowly 4/10, which is a shame. In better hands, with a more fleshed out backstory and more engaging characters then it could have been a good if not better show. Oh well...

Oct 12, 2022 2:37 PM

#17

Disapeared_Ghost

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Dec 2017

27747

overall this series was alot of fun to watch

May 27, 2023 2:54 AM

#18

Offline

Nov 2009

1410

This's been sitting on my to watch list for more than a decade. And I fineally got around to actually watching it. The vibe, the atmosphere, the music, the premise are all great, but entirely not enough explanation. And no, it doesn't mean infodumps are a must or everything must be spoonfed, but as it is the show's failed to provide the bare minimum of its world explained to even make educated guesses about what happened towards the end, which just makes it underwhelming, confusing and frustrating. 6/10, and now I get why this show that seemingly had potential to become a classic, got forgotten instead.

ったく、嫌な世の中だよ。

Aug 3, 2023 1:46 PM

#19

MoonLuhAna

Offline

May 2019

Well, I've never really cared about comenting on animes ends. But I feel like this is a great opportunity to start doing It.
Ok, so like most people here, I'm also confused with the end of Avenger at some level, it feels as if they couldn't do what they were supposed to do, I mean: the show overall is boring cuz they couldn't carry the story well + the slow pace type of animation and storytelling were annoying... That's why it took me 4 years to finish this series ;-; (but I'm glad I did so). Also, the end made me think they planned a 2nd season that never happend... Speedy was The best character, he and Layla had a lot of potencial n it were not explored (so sad), the Nei x Layla relationship were not really explained, and Nei transformation was like "wth?", didn't made any sense at all... It's an ok show tho, 6/10 to me (and yes, the soundtrack is really cool)

Feb 6, 2024 9:11 AM

#20

SplendorofSouls

Offline

Jun 2013

Indeed an unclear ending.

My thoughts on the moon and the changing of Mars's environment in the end: I believe they said the earth was gone, so both the moon people and Martians had no mother planet anymore, now if I interpret that as that the earth is physically gone (e.g. exploded), then the change in gravitational fields surrounding and pulls on the moon by other planets and the sun may be the reason the Martians fear the moon and the moon's getting closer to Mars in the end, i.e. without the earth (and/or perhaps due its explosion) the moon's on a collision trajectory with Mars. This explains of course why the crust is rupturing and water is flowing and even forming clouds - gravitational pull by the ever closer getting moon. It also explains why Volk wanted to fire missiles at the moon, i.e. try and destroy it or at least minimize the damage caused by collision. What I don't get is Vesta's optimism for the future (with Martians now becoming Barbaroi), since if the collision was the problem of the moon, then Mars and Martians are still doomed.

But what about Nei's transformation and what Layla did in the end? Someone already said maybe Nei's a martian, so perhaps martian humans work differently from humans born on earth in terms of physiology. Still, at least if she'd been the child of Volk and Vesta, that would've made more sense, since they were prolonging their lives with plenty of artificial enhancements into their bodies, so, if they were to have a child, it would make more sense for such a child to have an unconventional physiology (i.e. the transformation in terms of hair/eye color and in terms of gender/sex) compared to 'terrian' children; also her initial eye colors I think were the same as those of Volk and Vesta and when she became a biological female her eye color was that of Vesta, which is the female of the two. They were also close and colleagues initially, so them having a child is not that weird. But this is not the case, for Vesta says Nei was born of Barbaroi parents and Vesta and Volk are dome people. So the simple explanation seems to be: apparently when two barbaroi make love and a child is born on Mars, the child will have this unconventional physiology (by earth standards) just because of martian factors, so barbaroi genetics, martian environment, available food etc.. Alternatively, much more speculative: perhaps she really is the hope for the future of humanity, i.e. the child born when no children were born anymore, and she was just 'given' to her mother, i.e. there was no intercourse, but it is more like in Christianity with the birth of Jesus, gifted to Maria by an angel / God / the holy spirit - Mashimo has a great sense of poetry and historical/cultural knowledge as is apparent in some other works of his, so he might have wanted to go with a Christian reference here - perhaps Nei was a gift of God to allow the humans to continue to exist. In this case her having unusual physiology is also less strange. Then perhaps her being of Barbaroi descent is a hint of God that the future is still very possible, but that is not to be found in waging war with each other over resources (in the domes), but rather in peaceful coexistence (like the barbaroi), i.e. that when the martians become barbaroi, God will again permit intercourse to lead to the brith of new life.
Now, why Layla having formed such a close and motherly bond with Nei (both having no one left in some sense), caring more and more about her, after finishing her revenge and defeating Volk, breaks down emotionally and then sets out on a journey leaving Nei behind just like that is well beyond me. Yes, find the true meaning of your journey Cross said, someone else pointed out, yeah yeah, all that, but this makes 0 sense for giving that new meaning of that journey post revenge a concrete implementation. It would have made much more sense for that new meaning to be found in living together with Nei, given their bond throughout the show. Her breaking down emotionally, I mean, perhaps makes sense given she was really young when everyone died and after that she basically just learned how to fight for the sake of survival and revenge, so from the age on where you get most of your general education, she got 0 of that, which also explains her lack of verbal skills and vocabulary, so she's had this heavy trauma as a young child and after much suffering and struggling she finally managed to avenge her parents and everyone she knew, but also that means her purpose in life, the one thing pushing her on, is gone, so of course a lot of emotions may be going through her in that moment, joy from revenge, crying from memory of the trauma, also the suffering of the past years. So I can make sense of the laughing and crying, but her leaving Nei behind, just like that, I don't understand that.

Aug 10, 2024 12:58 PM

#21

Archean-Return

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Dec 2022

5393

Another anime that would've benefitted immensely from some exposition to bolster its slow pacing. For as much as the art of Mars' environment was continuously impressing, Layla's flat personality and the obtuse storytelling kept inhibiting it.

ｲ乇刀乇乃尺ﾑ乇

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╚⏤═⏤╗

☽ Shaded Horizon ☾

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