My problem with depictions of sexual violence in manga

I haven't read this manga, but amen! This is basically exactly how I feel about sexual violence in entertainment.

I do not have much to add about the discussion, but I see the eclipse as an…honest depiction of why some men rape. I do understand the critique that Casca herself is not typical of most women or men who experienced that type of assault (To be fair, the Eclipse including the wholesale massacre of nearly everyone Casca knew). I do not disagree with that thoughtful criticism of my position, as it is why I appreciate to a much greater extent Guts’ earlier persona given his experiences with Gambino and Donovan. He hates being touched, he drifts through life because of the hand he has been dealt woth

I would say they are two sides of the same coin, Guts as a victim of this crime and Griffith who commits it.

To comment on manga and anime in general, my problem is that while rape is portrayed as a bad experience, it is often not treated as traumatic one. In the case where it is, you have of course more exaggerated examples like Casca. This is not to say that some people do not react this way or that exaggeration has no place in our media to communicate a message, I find that the understanding from people like me to be rudimentary and superficial. They were raped so they became catatonic, they were SA’ed so they became evil, etc. You get what I am driving at?

This is the best case scenario compared to a work like Classroom of the Elite, where it is just an excuse for the main character to save a potential live interest who was “almost” raped, which apparently is not traumatic in the slightest. It is more often to demonstrate evil more than anything else, and it is terribly disappointing. Trauma is long lasting and there is no cure, so it while it not inconvenient to have any character be SA’ed, it is deeply inconvenient to have one who was SA’ed.

Haven't read this particular manga, but yes, the type of portrayel you describe is one i loath

Personally i think Cross Ange, Elfen Lied, and Citrus fall in this category

@DigiCat Yes, unfortunately it is way too common of a trope in animanga to use sexual violence merely for shock and plot progression.

@serexday I wouldn't really say they're common, in fact i've probably scene more anime that have some level of dignity when telling such stories (even if some may be more graphic than others) compare to ones that are just completely distasteful in their execution

@DigiCat unfortunately the more you dig into animanga the more you see it, especially with older titles. I'm not sure how much you've personally read or watched, but I have definitely seen it used a lot more than it needs to be. I can pretty much tell if there's a vibe of even the threat of sexual violence about to happen in anime/manga, the more you consume the more you notice these things in my opinion. But you would probably find these things with animanga that are targeted towards more adult or mature audiences.

@serexday I'm still not very convinced, i can maybe understand the argument if you're including hentai, but i consider that completely seperate, same as if i was talking about live action, i wouldn't include porn in the statistics

I do notice there's a disproportionate amount of the type of portrayal you describe in BL/GL, but that is also a very small part of anime with around 300 titles between the 2 genres out if 5000+ total anime

As for how much i've watched, about 750 anime between completed and dropped (manga a lot less as i'm dyslexic)

I only counted those anime where the sexual violence happens (be it on screen or not) or almost happens but someone stops it, but by the "threat of it about to happen" it sounds like you may be reffering to an even earlier stage? (correct me if i'm wrong) So like feeling you're in potential danger but in the end it doesn't happen, if that's what you meant i'll look thru my list again and see if i remember any such scenes

I also feel uncomfortable seeing graphic violence in manga, especially scenes involving rape like those I encountered in 17-sai and Genocider. It’s disturbing to see women harmed in such ways. However, I understand that sometimes these scenes are used to emphasize how low or desperate the characters feel, adding dramatic depth to the story. This approach can be a double-edged sword, especially when the victim is an important or loved one of a male character. It often sets up a bold revenge plot or highlights the helplessness of the man who couldn't protect someone he cared about.

In the context of the series Kyoko, when I first read it, I was intrigued because I admire the duo of Buronson and Ryouichi. They tend to create dramatic and tear-jerking stories (though not every title) and present them with impressive artistic style. The rape scene in *Kyoko* is used to develop the idea that the love you hold can overcome anything. While I know this can feel like a narrative shortcut—using rape to amplify drama and suggest that the emotional loss is greater than the physical trauma—it’s still more meaningful than using rape merely as an excuse for graphic violence, like what is often seen in Dead Tube.

Even though it’s not a perfect approach, it’s at least better when such scenes are tied to character development and plot progression rather than being there just for shock value.

@DigiCat While I don't have actual numbers of these instances, it's more of a personal opinion that I speak of on the original post.

My personal readings and consumption of animanga consist of three temperatures (as I would like to describe them). Light-hearted (often comedic) titles like K-On!, stories more grounded in realism but still maintaining an accessible presentation in regards to themes explored (anywhere from things like Horimiya to SNK), then the adult side of stories (things like Berserk, Monster etc. that explore dark thematic story structures).

I'm not trying to discredit your personal opinion either, just trying to clarify my points which are that sexual violence needs to be handled better by authors and us as fans and consumers need to be able to openly discuss sensitive matters like this more often. This is probably the first thread I've interacted with that is actually constructive conversation about this topic so I'm glad some people are engaging with it.

With other art forms like hentai, eroge etc. there is definitely a difference because that focuses more on the actual acts of sexual intercourse between whatever the story is about, and the target demographic for those titles are clearly those who are looking to gain some sort of sexual gratification through the material whereas with animanga you're there to watch/read a story about whatever it is, not necessarily looking for sexual content.

@serexday That's fair, after all we can only base our opinions on the things we've scene and what our experience of those are

And you're right about it being important to be able to discuss openly about sensitive topics

Curious, what are your fav anime from each of the 3 temperatures you listed?

Well, I am also not a fan of that kind of narrative regarding nudity and sexual violence and using them as just basic, cheap tools. However, seeing Berserk brought up in this context, as a manga showing that kind of scenes in a right way, without turning them into mere plot devices filled with shock value and pornographic content, was weird. Disturbing, even. Let me explain. Berserk is full of scenes that can be compared to those shown in Kyoko. Heck, it has a decent amount of stuff that younger readers would call "coomerbait for deranged people". In example, Casca sexually assaulted over and over again, many times in a shocking-looking way, with her breast exposed in a pornographic manner, is only one element of it.

We can cherrypick by picking up Golden Age arc, sure. We can mention its climax moment, or the very beginning of this arc, to note how well-constructed and meaningful to the plot were disturbing scenes containing gore, nudity and sexual violence. But it'd be a fallacy to pretend that said arc has no other Kyoko-like (let's call them like this) moments (*cough* *cough* Wyald); and even bigger fallacy to casually forget about similar scenes from the other arcs, who arguably were even worse than most of similar scenes in Kyoko. If it ain't a fallacy, then we can easily say that porn movies are full of passionate romance, because most of scenes push the plot onward and depict sexual intercourse of all kinds. Sounds weird, but accurate in this context.

It's also unfair to graduate the role of those scenes in both manga, when both of them present similar intensity of them. Relatively, of course. Kyoko is way, way shorter than Berserk, which is still yet to be concluded.
There are scenes important, or even pivotal, to the plot in both Berserk and Kyoko. Same goes with scenes that were not, and sometimes felt unnecessary or excessively graphic, as if they were meant to be a sick form of fanservice. And yet, both had their purpose - to show something shocking, excessive, controversial, to place emphasis on how evil the people responsible for acting in such way were.

I didn't write spoilers on purpose. If someone is familiar with Berserk manga, then they for sure will get what I was referring to, unless they are blinded fanatics. If someone is not familiar with the manga, then no need to write spoilers about it in a thread dedicated to a different story.

So, in other words, not to play devil's advocate, but let's be fair when comparing two pieces of art. No matter if we like both of them, or one of them, or neither of them. Those two comics' demographic is seinen. It is meant for adult readers who should be aware that a gore manga with sexual violence depicted in it may actually have those elements, huh.

For anyone rustled by me somewhat criticizing one element of Berserk: no need to. I like Berserk and I respect Kentarou Miura as an artist. I just referred to the fact that it was brought up in the discussion as a manga presumably doing the same stuff as Kyoko, but way better. What's more, one mediocre element appearing at times in Berserk won't change the fact that it's an extremely solid manga loved by many.