| How do you think this Suletta, Miorine, Elan thing is going to play out? Guidelines: We're not arguing if the three are going to be romantically involved. Assume they are. If you need the visual language and storytelling tropes explained to you to show why Suletta is romantically set up with both Miorine and Elan, then go have someone else explain it to you. The questions are: 1) How do you think the relationships are going to be developed? 2) Do you think love triangles in general are a good idea? 3) How will one pairing being queer impact the storytelling, if at all? 4) If you have a ship preference, feel free to state it and why you prefer it, but keep it separate from what you believe the show will actually do and why you believe that. Alright, let's see what we can discuss. If someone is being a homophobic troll, do not quote post them or respond in anyway. Suffocate their post by ignoring it. We've all been on the internet long enough to know when someone is trolling vs when they are sincere. |
| We do not argue, yes. But you're starting to push the romance narrative again on the show with two female leads, which will obviously lead to controversy despite the fact that you regularly complain about it yourself. You even try to poison the source beforehand, implying that those who won't accept the idea of yuri are homophobic trolls and should be ignored. |
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| For myself: 1) Both of these characters are tsundere's, or perhaps Elan is a kuudere (is that the quiet one that doesn't hit you when you're being stupid?). Either way, they are both contrasted against Eri/Suletta's more open and compassionate personality. As such, I think Suletta's kindness will crack both their shells. Either alone would be a good story. I am not sold on the love triangle element. Which brings me to... 2) I think they are a bad idea because they are almost always done poorly. One of the worst version of this trope is when two people in the triangle are so clearly endgame that you wonder why they put a third in there at all: think bella/edward vs jacob. In this case, all of the promos for the show, the OP, the ED, the opening episode, and this episode, put the focus on the relationship between Suletta and Miorine. So I really dislike that Elan was introduced as a love interest primarily because he's clearly gonna get shafted. Even if they wanted that to be part of his character dynamic with Suletta, I wish they hadn't introduced it first. He seems like an interesting guy. I have to admit, I have a soft spot for reserved boy characters who like to pretend they don't have emotions because they don't know what to do with them. He's def my low-key fav of the supporting cast so far. And yet, his intro is marred by having him positioned as a love interest right away with the whole 'don't tell me you're in love' line. Like, why does his character have to be reduced to that? 3) Meh. Considering Suletta/Miorine is a queer relationship, I'm worried Elan will act as a beard. Similar to other versions of this trope where the secondary love interest has no chance, his relationship with Suletta will primarily be one sided but with the added offense of it being seen as the "valid" relationship either within the world of the show, within the homophobic cesspools of the fandom, or both (already see that happening). And it'll probs be used by toxic fans to delegitimize the main relationship regardless of how little screentime it gets. Which is why I dislike it so much. I think Elan is set up to be an interesting character, and I don't want to see him turned into the bludgeon of bigots. But here we are. 4) Don't have a preference separate from what the show itself is telling me. I think it's too early and the dynamics too under developed to like one more than the other just yet, especially because they are so similar. But the show is giving Suletta/Miorine way more focus and so they've had way more interesting interactions so far, hence my sympathies lying there. BTW, I don't think that's a bad thing. I personally like when a story picks a relationship to develop and develops it. I just dislike this vestigial relationship with Elan that they're setting up because I doubt it'll get development. |
Mq84jdk said: Here’s the thing - Gundam rehashes a few themes nearly every single series. - War between Earthnoids/Spacenoids - Char clone (character with mask - usually a skilled/intelligent villain, but occasionally a good guy instead) - Love Triangle and/or tragic love between enemies It’s a tale as old as Gundam. The writing is on the wall. There will 100% be a love triangle or polygon of some kind. I’m one of the few who wishes they would stray from some of this stuff every once in a while but I think the fans just expect it at this point. I wouldn't call it themes, just classic clichés like the death of the Terminator in every installment of the Terminator franchise or the "kill me" line in Aliens. Given that Gundam is a classic generational franchise, this is more than expected. |
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Cambriel5202 said: For myself: 1) Both of these characters are tsundere's, or perhaps Elan is a kuudere (is that the quiet one that doesn't hit you when you're being stupid?). Either way, they are both contrasted against Eri/Suletta's more open and compassionate personality. As such, I think Suletta's kindness will crack both their shells. Either alone would be a good story. I am not sold on the love triangle element. Which brings me to... 2) I think they are a bad idea because they are almost always done poorly. One of the worst version of this trope is when two people in the triangle are so clearly endgame that you wonder why they put a third in there at all: think bella/edward vs jacob. In this case, all of the promos for the show, the OP, the ED, the opening episode, and this episode, put the focus on the relationship between Suletta and Miorine. So I really dislike that Elan was introduced as a love interest primarily because he's clearly gonna get shafted. Even if they wanted that to be part of his character dynamic with Suletta, I wish they hadn't introduced it first. He seems like an interesting guy. I have to admit, I have a soft spot for reserved boy characters who like to pretend they don't have emotions because they don't know what to do with them. He's def my low-key fav of the supporting cast so far. And yet, his intro is marred by having him positioned as a love interest right away with the whole 'don't tell me you're in love' line. Like, why does his character have to be reduced to that? 3) Meh. Considering Suletta/Miorine is a queer relationship, I'm worried Elan will act as a beard. Similar to other versions of this trope where the secondary love interest has no chance, his relationship with Suletta will primarily be one sided but with the added offense of it being seen as the "valid" relationship either within the world of the show, within the homophobic cesspools of the fandom, or both (already see that happening). And it'll probs be used by toxic fans to delegitimize the main relationship regardless of how little screentime it gets. Which is why I dislike it so much. I think Elan is set up to be an interesting character, and I don't want to see him turned into the bludgeon of bigots. But here we are. 4) Don't have a preference separate from what the show itself is telling me. I think it's too early and the dynamics too under developed to like one more than the other just yet, especially because they are so similar. But the show is giving Suletta/Miorine way more focus and so they've had way more interesting interactions so far, hence my sympathies lying there. BTW, I don't think that's a bad thing. I personally like when a story picks a relationship to develop and develops it. I just dislike this vestigial relationship with Elan that they're setting up because I doubt it'll get development. He won't be a beard, because first of all, it's a western cliché and almost non-existent in Japanese media. Secondly, shows with a bisexual love triangle usually choose one side or the other. This is literally the essence of the trope. Either yuri or straight. You also seem to focus too much on the idea of a yuri ship, forgetting that the mere focus on their relationship doesn't mean it should only be seen as a romantic development. In fact, you are again doing what you were doing in the discussion of Licoris. Create threads and discussions that monotonously promote the narrative of your yuri ships as better or more desirable, while trying to get yuri shippers involved and accusing those who don't share your hype as homophobic. |
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| "Notice me sempai! Notice me!" lol. |
Mq84jdk said: Here’s the thing - Gundam rehashes a few themes nearly every single series. - War between Earthnoids/Spacenoids - Char clone (character with mask - usually a skilled/intelligent villain, but occasionally a good guy instead) - Love Triangle and/or tragic love between enemies It’s a tale as old as Gundam. The writing is on the wall. There will 100% be a love triangle or polygon of some kind. I’m one of the few who wishes they would stray from some of this stuff every once in a while but I think the fans just expect it at this point. Good to know/sad to know it's following IP specific tropes? Not sure how I feel about it. I've heard whispers of tragic love stories being the norm for this IP, but I haven't looked into them because I don't want to form any conclusions. This is my first gundam series. |
Cambriel5202 said: Notice me sempai! Notice me! lol. And again, lame trolling, which you deliberately do not address me, pretending that you are not trying to provoke me. Again, memes like this should be addressed to whoever is making threads like this again despite the constant complaints about ship disputes. Cambriel5202 said: Mq84jdk said: Here’s the thing - Gundam rehashes a few themes nearly every single series. - War between Earthnoids/Spacenoids - Char clone (character with mask - usually a skilled/intelligent villain, but occasionally a good guy instead) - Love Triangle and/or tragic love between enemies It’s a tale as old as Gundam. The writing is on the wall. There will 100% be a love triangle or polygon of some kind. I’m one of the few who wishes they would stray from some of this stuff every once in a while but I think the fans just expect it at this point. Good to know/sad to know it's following IP specific tropes? Not sure how I feel about it. I've heard whispers of tragic love stories being the norm for this IP, but I haven't looked into them because I don't want to form any conclusions. This is my first gundam series. It's strange that you ignored this because it literally helped bring about a lesbian marriage in past Gundam. Oh yeah, assuming some of the characters can die, especially in the context of the death flag references in ED, you can't convince people about yuri here. Sorry, didn't think. |
RobertBobertOct 9, 2022 5:32 PM
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| 1) No idea. Closer to have a comrade relationship? Wonder who will wear a mask a pilot the red mobile suit? 2) Love triangles exist in Gundam since 1979. Char X Lalah X Amuro. 3) No comment. 4) No comment. Don’t really care about the love triangles. I am satisfied with it if it turns about to be a decent war story. Looking forward to the Earthnoids/Spacenoids war. Like the other Gundam universes, Spacenoids are elitists that they think they evolved from Earthnoids. |
Mq84jdk said: Cambriel5202 said: Good to know/sad to know it's following IP specific tropes? Not sure how I feel about it. I've heard whispers of tragic love stories being the norm for this IP, but I haven't looked into them because I don't want to form any conclusions. This is my first gundam series. Yeah traffic love stories are definitely the norm in Gundam. Typically they involve enemies falling in love and it ending badly for them. There are a few examples where this doesn’t happen though, and it ends good. If the two don’t start out as enemies, chances are a lot better for them, I think. War bringing tragedy is the biggest recurring theme in Gundam, and people typically don’t have plot armor in these shows, no matter who they are. I do hope it goes good for the two of them though. We’ve also never had yuri in Gundam before as far as I know, so that’s new. It was literally at the end of the last Gundam. Do you talk about love so much on the show but don't know it? In any case, despite speculation, we haven't even seen the show even intend to make the two of them a romantic couple yet. NewestPersonHere said: 1) No idea. Closer to have a comrade relationship? Wonder who will wear a mask a pilot the red mobile suit? 2) Love triangles exist in Gundam since 1979. Char X Lalah X Amuro. 3) No comment. 4) No comment. Don’t really care about the love triangles. I am satisfied with it if it turns about to be a decent war story. Looking forward to the Earthnoids/Spacenoids war. Like the other Gundam universes, Spacenoids are elitists that they think they evolved from Earthnoids. The problem is that most of the new viewers for whom this Gundam is the first show came here precisely for romance. Many of them have never even seen Utena, so they don't know that it's not exactly the "original story". It's just a new show for yuri ships to them, so they want to talk about it. Well, at least tourists like OP. |
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| If it were up to me I would avoid the love triangle altogether. Not that I hate them but I’d rather them just focus on Miorine and Suletta either being a romantic couple or just becoming best friends. Tbh, I just want to see crazy mech battles and all out war! |
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Mq84jdk said: RobertBobert said: It was literally at the end of the last Gundam. Do you talk about love so much on the show but don't know it? In any case, despite speculation, we haven't even seen the show even intend to make the two of them a romantic couple yet. I meant with the main character specifically but I didn’t write that - but yeah you are right. That was a wild way to end a love triangle lol. I don't see much of a difference, given that both girls also had a solid focus. Not like this show where you literally need a premiere and an OP with an ED to suddenly find out you have to treat Miorene like a second main character. That Gundam also brought up topics like polyamory and non-traditional relationships in general, but it was still pretty straight forward, which is probably why OP skipped it. Anyway, we're only on the second episode and the variations are endless. To the point that Miorene really becomes a local Lelouch and we get a bisexual Suletta, who bitterly defeats her, becoming a couple with some Elan. Or vice versa, two straight couples like in SEED. Or the repetition of the circle as in the IBO, where one dies and the couple changes. Or no romance at all, just ambiguous BFFs like in Princess Principal. Or, or, or. It's useless to speculate. |
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thunderkitten13 said: Personally, I think Elan will eventually want to kill Suletta for Aerial. It seems they aren’t too interested in Suletta very much. I mean, he did bring her food but didn’t really console her or anything. Meanwhile, Miorine is actively trying to help Suletta. She could’ve just fled to earth but stayed back for Suletta. To me they either become a full on couple or at least really close friends. The dude is interfering with my ship, he is obviously bad. However, if it's not yuri, I hope that there will be no romance at all and they will be BFF, so that it can be argued that they are gay with subtext. |
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Mq84jdk said: RobertBobert said: I don't see much of a difference, given that both girls also had a solid focus. Not like this show where you literally need a premiere and an OP with an ED to suddenly find out you have to treat Miorene like a second main character. That Gundam also brought up topics like polyamory and non-traditional relationships in general, but it was still pretty straight forward, which is probably why OP skipped it. Anyway, we're only on the second episode and the variations are endless. To the point that Miorene really becomes a local Lelouch and we get a bisexual Suletta, who bitterly defeats her, becoming a couple with some Elan. Or vice versa, two straight couples like in SEED. Or the repetition of the circle as in the IBO, where one dies and the couple changes. Or no romance at all, just ambiguous BFFs like in Princess Principal. Or, or, or. It's useless to speculate. Yeah I guess. But she did say to her father in this new episode that she wants Suletta as her fiance. Even if it’s for convenience because she’s the best option and not because of love - they would still be betrothed. I mean the showrunners are pretty blatantly telling the viewer that it’s a real possibility. Will it happen? Who knows. Honestly, based on the tragic relationships the series loves to write, I almost doubt it. But it seems more likely than anything else so far. And yeah the OP/ED are pretty blatant with the imagery here, so it seems pretty clear where they want the viewer to think the story is going. Yes, she does. But she never implied that she was doing this out of love, and not out of a desire to keep Suletta in school, create a shield against unwanted suitors, or even use her as a weapon/ally against her father. Moreover, this scene comes right after their dialogue in the palm of the robot, where she says that she is not going to force her to marry her, etc. As for the OP and ED, then again, we don't know the intentions of the authors and a lot of things may turn out to be just fanservice or metaphor. I literally know shows where OP or ED portray straight girls in more seductive situations. By the way, the symbolism of ED is pretty similar to how anime symbolizes memories etc. Which is especially interesting in the context of the depiction of supposedly SOL moments in it. So, can't we start suspecting some kind of mis-flags in this? Or at least that they would have a good reason for ending such an idealized friendship? |
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wolfbahng said: I'm thinking Shaddiq or even Guel might be involved. xD The poster and presentation already implies that Guel will have an interest in one of the two. |
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| I'm thinking that Suletta's narrative will be about her coming into her own and becoming more assertive. This will lead to her accepting the engagement and finding peace with some hiccups along the way |
| I'm really not seeing how this amount to anything beyond speculation, and personally I would be extremely wary of a love triangle in general. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| This is would not the first time Gundam has had gay pilots. And homosexual marriage is right now a hot topic in Japan. Gundam has always been political and maybe this is some kind of reflection of that. Not saying it is, but who knows? It might be And no I don't like a love triangle too much fucking drama. And well ofc I prefer the lesbian ship, I love lesbian ships =) Then homophobic Yuri bait is sadly not that uncommon in the anime industry. Usually, I'm pretty good at sniffing out the bait. I was one of the first that said in the first episode of both Lycoris Recoil and Shiroi Suna no Aquatope that this is only hateful Yuri bait and I was right But this time I'm not so sure, to be honest. So far this anime doesn't give off vibes of being hateful toward lesbians. So maybe it isn't baiting. IMO It rather hints pretty strongly at the lesbian parring Suletta and Miorine. In the end, they are all over each other. And the light blueish color is really strong. Blue especially light blue is a color that is associated with Yuri in Japan "Blue Drop" "Sweet Blue Flowers" "Liz and The Blue Bird" "Transparent Light Blue" "Luminous Blue" "Resonant Blue" and that is just mentioning a few of them. So "blue" or "blueish" and Yuri goes hand in hand So for me and my experience with Yuri tells me that this might actually be something real. But I don't trust Japan with nice things Lol. So I am open to the possibility this is nothing more than bait Miorine and her future wife Suletta are my favorite ship. And I hope they will have their lesbian wedding,,,,YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES   |
Yuri-CrusaderOct 10, 2022 2:43 AM
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| Elan's character intrigued me right from the get-go. I have a suspicion that he'll turn out to be one of my favourite characters from this series. Nonetheless, I'd rather not have a love triangle. I hope he stays true to his word that he won't fall in love. |
Forever a reader, rarely a watcher. Also listens to music. ★ ⸢There are three ways to survive in a ruined world.⸥ ⸢I’ve forgotten a few by now. However, one thing’s for certain.⸥ ⸢And that is, the you reading these words will get to survive.⸥ ⸢This story is for just that one reader.⸥ |
| Well, looks like we have a harem on our hands so now triangles don't matter. :D |
Cambriel5202 said: Well, looks like we have a harem on our hands so now triangles don't matter. :D I just watched the new episode and now know what you mean. xD |
Forever a reader, rarely a watcher. Also listens to music. ★ ⸢There are three ways to survive in a ruined world.⸥ ⸢I’ve forgotten a few by now. However, one thing’s for certain.⸥ ⸢And that is, the you reading these words will get to survive.⸥ ⸢This story is for just that one reader.⸥ |
Cambriel5202 said: Well, looks like we have a harem on our hands so now triangles don't matter. :D Not really, harems would be if the members actually have a non-zero shot at it, which doesn't seem to be the case here. The likely case here is that it's a plot device to give her more friends and allies early on. |
Fail_Man_X said: If you called "Elan will die", congratulations. Nah, Elan 2 will appear like Ple 2 in Gundam ZZ. Well, there is a Ple 16 in Gundam Unicorn. |
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