AGoldenShotgun said: I don't think either sex should be sexualized but if has to be done then I rather both genders be affected by it and not just one. It seems a little hypocrite for guys to complain that it's not alright to sexualize their own sex but are ok when the other sex is sexualize. thank you! i havent read all the comments but i think you are the only one who thinks like that. i mean humans if groomed are beautiful, sexy and such and you can sexualize both gender equally and admiring the beauty of same sex shouldnt be considered gay, however lately society over do the sexualizing thing, it is kind of sad how everybody(especially girls coz they are being sexualized much more) think they should be sexy from a very young age, they should date a lot of people, they should show their assets and should be complimented for doing so and because of the current media nobody think this way of thought is corrupted anymore, it is not modernization, it s corruption IMO. |
| A forum about a form of segregation/sexualizing on the internet? lol. How exactly does this topic get anywhere? Everyone on the internet is either Liberal or they're considered trolls. It's obvious that every comment on this forum is going to say "No" because that's the public/respectable view. tbh I couldn't care less that they are "sexualizing" males in Free!, I`ve only seen the first episode and I know they are trying to appeal to a female audience. Most guys wouldn`t be caught dead watching an anime with 3-4 scenes with guys taking off their pants for whatever the reason may be. However, we're already in the "weird" part of the internet as Anime lovers are already a minority.There shouldn't be that many people pointing fingers when everyone is watching a Shounen,Shoujo, Seinen, Ecchi or Loli etc.. Anddd it seems I`ve written too much but really though... tl;dr: this forum topic is going to have a bunch of "No" reponses, it's on the Free! episode discussion so fans of the anime will post, Anime lovers are a minority, the internet is mostly liberal & my opinion is the obvious "No". |
rpn101Jul 16, 2013 12:29 PM
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himitsu_ichigo said: Comments from anime blogs bother me. Is it really wrong to sexualize males (as in show their abs or something) when shows featuring females with big boobs/loli/etc are rather mainstream? Is anyone really saying that it's wrong, or are they just having a negative reaction to it? If they're saying it's wrong I would assume they would give a reason for why it's wrong. If it's the case of a negative reaction, then there should exist a cause for the reaction. But it sounds to me like there are people who don't like the show's male eroticism, and that the distaste for it is less political than those criticisms levied against representations of women in popular media. The latter has a social impact, and is worthy of public discussion. Someone's discomfort with 'bromance' and male sexual passivity on screen is that individual's cross to bare. |
| I always wonder why animes for guys have special episodes or just episodes with girls on beach or hot springs or just girl for some reason will have to wear her swimsuit or guy enters the bathroom or room when girl is naked. And guys love it! So why now somebody cares when girls get anime with half naked guys?! I wonder what they gonna say when they gonna see girls teams in competition or some Kou fanservice. |
| I think it's a bit over doing I like water boys a lot, like this, it's just happy and sunny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKw6omFMWo A second thought is they sexualize them in the wrong way. They are converting these sunny water boys into 'otome', which feels a bit kinky. Even the censored nudity in Gintama is better received. |
bottleJul 17, 2013 6:36 PM
| My answer: I'm just going to watch and enjoy the show and never come back to this topic. |
Akamatsu_Jun said: Yes, it is wrong that kyoani a hitherto respected studio that had managed to make until now good animes without resorting to cheap fanservice, has been lowered itself to make pandering fanservice. Huh what? KyoAni has always resorted to fanservice in the past. Check out Haruhi. Also, this series is PERFECTLY watchable by viewers of both gender. So far, there are no sexual connotations at all. It's all in your head people. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| I'll say this as a guy who has no interest in this show but keeps on lurking the forums to try to convince myself to watch it: it's no problem, really. I mean, there's tons of ecchi series out there so it's only fair that girls get sexy manservice as well. |
Strawhat_PirateJul 17, 2013 9:21 PM
| K-ON! case: "Oh Yui is so cute, Mio is so cute, etc etc" (female fanbase, rejoice! Male fanbase polarized) Free! case: "Abs, biceps, triceps. Nagisa is so cute, etc etc" (female fanbase, rejoice! Male fanbase, disbanded) Male: You can see my bare nipples. But can I see your nipples too? Female: Hell no! __________________________________________________ That's why gender equality (or whatever feminist says) never exist and won't ever exist. For the question regarded in this thread. The question itself is wrong in the first place. So, there won't be any answer xD |
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hikoghert said: Good read: http://adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com/post/54972143240/objectification-of-men-and-objectification-on-women It's important to contextualize. It's not wrong to sexualize. But I think several people have actually been complaining about objectification. |
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| Female characters are cute and moe, males are just disgusting. |
| There's nothing wrong with sexualizing females. Same as there is nothing wrong with sexualizing males. The only reason theres so much hate and backlash for Free! is because there are a bunch of homophobes and assholes who are uncomforatable with fanservice for girls and claim that its unrealistic portrayal of males even though almost every female character in anime is an unrealisic portrayal of females... |
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| Are there any girls in Free? |
| Shoot first, think never. |
| This. |
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Sandovart_BR said: Female characters are cute and moe, males are just disgusting. Look at my favorite character list. Then look at yours. Look back at mine. Mmhm, that's right, I bet you'll have a hard time calling them disgusting. Nice try. |
Hiryu12 said: This. I'd so pay for that. |
Alone on a Friday night? Remember that DIO did nothing wrong! |
| Maybe because I'm a guy I don't notice the fan service, but considering its an anime about swimming it isn't shocking to see topless guys. Do people complain about Michael Phelps being topless at the olympics? There are camp moments and some Kou/Gou moments which probably go under fan service but still unless its a mysterious bulge then I'm not going to think anything of it in terms of overly sexualised. With fanservice from girls there are tons of zoom ups/ panty shots ect. Some of this can get realllllly annoying (It's why I didn't consider watching Rosario + after the first episode). Unrealistic proportions are another common factor but usually I don't care. I didn't answer the question whatsoever then but I really think they should do whatever they feel like. I don't get why there would be a difference between sexualising males and females. I'm really surprised there is a debate over this. |
| Bad question. You're assuming that there's a difference between sexualizing the two. If you believe there is a difference, you are sexist. So stop it. Now as to whether it's okay or not, I don't care. Just don't say one gender is okay and one isn't; it's both or neither. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
Yemi_Hikari said: I personally think the moments with Kou are honestly attempts to poke fun of funservice in general, which makes the comments about their being to much fanservice... ironic? Is that the right word for it? I think I'm looking for a different word. The word is "satire" my friend. :) Well, "satirical" is the adjective form. |
| Men sexualixe women all the time. There are more fanservice anime catered towards men out there than I can count on one hand. Females are constantly sexualized in them yet barely anyone complains about it. So why should it be wrong for women to sexualize men? It's not wrong that's what. And god when you watch an anime like Free! you KNOW what you're getting yourself into. So if you're a straight male watching it for god knows what reason don't complain about them being shirtless a lot honestly do you fucking expect them to swim with a shirt on. |
| Guys get their highschool dxd and hotd, girls get their boku no pico and free. To each sexuality and fetishdom heir own fanservice. |
| I do have to clarify that Boku no Pico is actually aimed at males, despite its content. Particularly males who like traps and shotas. |
fable said: Honestly, the only person I can think of wanking to Boku no Pico is Hideyoshi.I do have to clarify that Boku no Pico is actually aimed at males, despite its content. Particularly males who like traps and shotas. |
| Nothing is wrong with sexualizing any gender ,especially if it's fictional. I mean guys get what they want ,boob and butt,pantie shots fanservice, but what about girls I don't mind the stripping or great triceps or abs . All the better for boys and girls to be happy. |
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MEanimaniac1 said: There are tons of ecchi shows for guys with panty-shots and boobs....why can't girls have their abs and triceps? ^ This. It's just the guys hating on Free! and they have no right to do so when they have TONS of ecchi animes for them to watch. This is why I dislike real life guys, they are morons. =.= |
| 💕 |
| I'm proud of all you girls gathering up on the treacherous forum and speaking + defending beautifully. I love you all. <3 |
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| This turned into a feminism thread, lol. |
| I feel like this is probably an important video for people to watch in this thread as it highlights exactly what the key differences in the sexualization of the male body and the sexualization of the female body in media tend to mean. Even if Free! had been actually nothing but cheap fanservice (which it isn't, the characters have funny, witty, heartfelt interactions with each other, the backstory is intriguing and interesting, and the sport actually is represented a fair bit plotwise, more I would argue than Yui and her guitar though in the long run it's a moot point, since by and large Kyoani anime is about the friendships using the various activities such as music or swimming as a catalyst), there is something important to be had in the fact that this show, being directed by a woman which is critically important both in the instance of this show and the industry overall, is shot 100% using the female gaze as opposed to the default (and yes it is default fellas, 99.5% of all media in this world is probably using the male gaze as the default, certainly in anime) male gaze. This is why some men get so uncomfortable, like the video states, the gaze under which a piece of fiction operates forces the audience to assume an identity that may or may not be something they are. Women are used to this, as again the male gaze is almost universally the default, and even media that is under the female gaze probably sneaks some scenes for the men in there. Women (straight women to clarify, queer women do gain from the male gaze even though there too is a lack of queer female gaze proper but I digress) are constantly being forced to temporarily give up their identity when it comes to enjoying media, it's become second nature to them for better or for worse. There's nothing wrong with the male gaze existing, the video even goes to point out it's usefulness in storytelling, but the ratio of male gaze to female gaze, and how sexy men are often portrayed (as GAR and someone to look up to and want to be like as someone in this very thread mentioned, Kamina for example who I'm not even sure knows what a shirt is, but remains free from debates like this because he is MANLY AND MADE FOR MANLY MEN) versus sexy women (as parts more or less, though some do manage to break through when effort is put into developing them as human beings, being sexy is not necessarily the end of a female character's personality it just tends to be since a fair chunk of these women have been created by men who may or may not care about them beyond their beauty) which is not. Not the same. Free! does focus a lot on the muscles, it does take advantage of the sport and it's inherent required lack of clothing. But if you notice, it also features a lot of close ups of the characters faces, their eyes. Facial expressions and eyes (being the "gateway to the soul") are ways to establish emotional connections, what the characters are feeling, how they interpret various situations and interactions. For every shot of Rei's butt there was also one of him close up, excitedly ready to tackle swimming and be part of the group of friends, one of him genuinely distressed he wasn't getting the concept or helping out his new friends. This show is taking care of it's characters, giving them feelings, human emotions, and other things that have been called "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" on this website. That's because female anime fans do in fact tend to care a fair bit about the human relationships of the characters they enjoy, and again, this show is made with the female gaze as the default all the way down from the top. Not to mention it also has two well developed characters of the opposite gender who contribute to the plot, do the main characters a solid on just about every occasion, act how they want, and are generally just adorable. Not many ecchi anime can claim that (though I'm not an expert so maybe I'm wrong on that point). There's nothing wrong with enjoying the body, that's human nature and I'm not going to begrudge anyone that, but when you see threads full of people throwing a girl under the bus because she cut her hair short and is therefore ugly and is therefore worthless, it makes you wonder if this mindset really can be called fully harmless. But anyways. TLDR if you really think the state of women and females in society in terms of being objectified is equal or probably ever will be to that of men, you're wrong and that's really all there is to say on the matter. Sorry for the long post, I'm pretty sure no one will read it but I'll leave it there anyways. Maybe someone will educate themselves today... haha. |
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| I do agree with the video although he fails to mention the biggest reason as to why women are objectified more than men in media. While it is true that probably the majority of producers are straight men it is also true that the current head of play is Christie Hefner (a girl). Now why would a girl continue to produce photos that appeal to the straight man? The answer is EXTREMELY obvious ... Money. Business. It is greatly known that SEX SELLS, and men have a much larger sex drive than females. So, one must just consider the way to make the quickest buck, and bang, you got yourself a shit ton of films objectifying woman. Is this fair? Now I am not positive (although there should be no reason why it is different), how powerful the sex drive of a homosexual male is, but in the case of homosexual males, unfortunately it instead boils down to numbers and not how easy it is to hook the audience in with just a little bit of fan service... Now I know people are probably going to disagree with these statements, but basically I am saying that it is true that the fact that the proportion of women as opposed to men that get objectified in media is nowhere near equal, but it isn't due to the fact that men want to keep women down. No, it is mostly because that is where the money is, as long as more people buy in to the objectification of women as opposed to men, this ratio won't change. OnT: I haven't seen Free! So I can't comment on whether it is purely fan service or a great show that just happens to have men w/o shirts (which since this is KyoAni I am sure the majority of those unhappy are K-On fans that are just pissed that the characters aren't female), but regardless it really doesn't matter. If it does sexualize males than good for it, if it doesn't then still good for it ... Honestly complaining about a show sexualizing a gender is retarded since they do it to just make money, it's the viewer in most cases that interprets that as sexist ... I have heard that Free! isn't just some fan service show but even in the future, if they make a show that is just fan service for females, it would be stupid to complain about it (Ecchi/Harems are pretty much fan service for males) since the company clearly is just trying to make money and if people like the fan service then they did there job. I think bringing morals in to the objectification of men/women in fiction is just dumb as it assumes that businesses aren't trying to appeal to the audience to make money. |
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| nothing is wrong with that, there are many shows that are meant for guys and im really happy that kyoto animation is making something for girls instead of guys |
| As a heterosexual male, I am 100% ok with my gender being sexually objectified. In fact I'd encourage it. It doesn't negatively affect me in anyway, nor should it affect anyone else. Pirating_Ninja said: I do agree with the video although he fails to mention the biggest reason as to why women are objectified more than men in media. While it is true that probably the majority of producers are straight men it is also true that the current head of play is Christie Hefner (a girl). Now why would a girl continue to produce photos that appeal to the straight man? The answer is EXTREMELY obvious ... Money. Business. It is greatly known that SEX SELLS, and men have a much larger sex drive than females. So, one must just consider the way to make the quickest buck, and bang, you got yourself a shit ton of films objectifying woman. Is this fair? Now I am not positive (although there should be no reason why it is different), how powerful the sex drive of a homosexual male is, but in the case of homosexual males, unfortunately it instead boils down to numbers and not how easy it is to hook the audience in with just a little bit of fan service... Now I know people are probably going to disagree with these statements, but basically I am saying that it is true that the fact that the proportion of women as opposed to men that get objectified in media is nowhere near equal, but it isn't due to the fact that men want to keep women down. No, it is mostly because that is where the money is, as long as more people buy in to the objectification of women as opposed to men, this ratio won't change. OnT: I haven't seen Free! So I can't comment on whether it is purely fan service or a great show that just happens to have men w/o shirts (which since this is KyoAni I am sure the majority of those unhappy are K-On fans that are just pissed that the characters aren't female), but regardless it really doesn't matter. If it does sexualize males than good for it, if it doesn't then still good for it ... Honestly complaining about a show sexualizing a gender is retarded since they do it to just make money, it's the viewer in most cases that interprets that as sexist ... I have heard that Free! isn't just some fan service show but even in the future, if they make a show that is just fan service for females, it would be stupid to complain about it (Ecchi/Harems are pretty much fan service for males) since the company clearly is just trying to make money and if people like the fan service then they did there job. I think bringing morals in to the objectification of men/women in fiction is just dumb as it assumes that businesses aren't trying to appeal to the audience to make money. I'm not too educated in the specifics of these industries, but from a logical standpoint I agree with all of this. |
| The problem for most people isnt that free is sexualized men. Its that all it is is sexualized men. Most people consider the show as having no plot. |
AstralAxolotl said: KYOANI SOLD OUT TO THE FUJOSHI AND THEY'RE NEVER GETTING ANOTHER DIME FROM ME I HAVE BEEN BETRAYED ON THE DEEPEST OF LEVELS This is biggotry and you should be banned. Theres no difference between directly insulting gays and using slurs, and calling african american's the n word. Either the mods also hate gays or they are just too lazy to police anything. |
AstralAxolotl said: Someone's rather slow. No I know you were joking. It doesn't matter. If I called everyone who likes Jay-Z an N word, it wouldn't be considered a joke. |
| I don't really think either one is good... I mean if free is like k-on but with dudes, forget it, I didn't like k-on very much, all they did was eat cake and act stupid it was funny but I just felt it could of been more. The funny part about k-on is it was popular with girls in japan. so both liked it to a certain extent. I can't tell you if I like free or not cause I haven't watched it. but fan service either male or female usually means trashy... I don't think right or wrong is really the case, I mean if you are a straight guy you like girls, if you are a straight girl you like guys. if all a show is guy guy guy I don't like guys so I don't like it cause Iam a guy so next, does it have a killer plot? but lets be honest "Lets go swimming" doesn't seem like a good plot.... Alot of the girls seem to say the characters are good. so naturally since they are all hot guys that doesn't fly as well with the guy viewer. Also you just don't see these types of shows as often, it just isn't as culturally accepted. And I don't see why a girl would feel bad if a guy calls them gay or fags. If somebody called touhou a bunch lesbos I would just be like OH YEAH BABY FLAN X REMILIA even tho I really just like them together in a non lesbo way. Really either you should accept both or deny both. I think Iam a deny both type so naturally I don't take much interest in it. |
| Well they can't swim wearing clothes. |
gamer2710 said: Bad question. You're assuming that there's a difference between sexualizing the two. If you believe there is a difference, you are sexist. So stop it. Now as to whether it's okay or not, I don't care. Just don't say one gender is okay and one isn't; it's both or neither. Thank you. |
| Wow, you all guys serious? I would like to say it's wrong to sexualize both genders but I won't, because I enjoy this show and it would be dishonnest to say it's wrong (I guess it's too late now.) However, who cares, really? People that complains about this show are people that don't like it, that's their right, as it is our right to like it, the end. People who says this show is gay or idk should be ignored, that's all. |
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SolviteSekai said: AstralAxolotl said: KYOANI SOLD OUT TO THE FUJOSHI AND THEY'RE NEVER GETTING ANOTHER DIME FROM ME I HAVE BEEN BETRAYED ON THE DEEPEST OF LEVELS This is biggotry and you should be banned. Theres no difference between directly insulting gays and using slurs, and calling african american's the n word. Either the mods also hate gays or they are just too lazy to police anything. You're not a mod, so stop acting like one already. IchigoHollowfi said: MEanimaniac1 said: There are tons of ecchi shows for guys with panty-shots and boobs....why can't girls have their abs and triceps? This is why I dislike real life guys, they are morons. =.= Yeah, so stick to your otome games if real life is too challenging for you. |
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GlaringDream said: Awakened said: Theres about 5 million shows aimed at men, why can't the homophobes complaining just ignore the handful of shows aimed at women and move on? Nobody is forcing anyone to watch it last time i checked. My thoughts exactly. I just don't understand why they can't do that. They can't do that because they are homophobes? Do you not even know the definition of a homophobe? Its a person who fears or hates homosexuality. They find free gay, so they hate on it. o-o Let people think whatever they want. Its not your place to criticize other peoples ideals. If it actually bothers you that much, simply ignore it. And anyways, that point is invalid. Why would a homophobe hate a show aimed at women? Women like men (most of the time), and the show is encouraging women to like men. Those so called "homophobes" aren't homophobes at all, use the correct term. Maybe if it was explained in more detail it would've made sense. |
Awakened said: And even if (and that is a very big, very much untrue, if) it were a pure fanservice show aimed at females instead of males, so what? Theres about 5 million shows aimed at men, why can't the homophobes complaining just ignore the handful of shows aimed at women and move on? Nobody is forcing anyone to watch it last time i checked. They just didn't like the fact Kyoani made a show for girls. But yes there's the other part made from homophobes, but those calling it "gay" don't know what gay actually means, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't complain if they aren't attracted to men |
Alone on a Friday night? Remember that DIO did nothing wrong! |
| No. But it bothers me that there's almost always females getting sexualized... I wish there could be more equality. It's okay if both genders are being sexualized. |
| -Just Believe- |
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