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| Wait, I thought only Ushio lives? Fuuko finds her under the tree at the end, that's clearly the 'real world' - she's been just been beamed back to the town via the light orbs or whatnot. Clearly Tomoya hasn't abandoned her under a tree. If Nagisa was conked out under the tree as well, then I would've thought they both lived? Conversely, isn't the sequence with the entire family just a dream? Nagisa showing Tomoya that stuff is worthwhile, etc, that in "a different world" things go happily ever after? That's the point of the VN sequence, that you have to start from scratch all over again to have Nagisa live, it's not possible in the "original" universe? Certainly you can subscribe to either universe, I guess? Either way, two universes is a dumb ending, and if indeed Nagisa does live, the town's conscience not only resurrects two people, but rewinds time 5-6 years? I have played several of the VN routes, but I haven't managed the hundreds of hours necessary to unlock everything. I also understand that a VN presents a new universe, if you will, every time the game starts over. I feel like the anime should stick to one storyline instead of jumping universes to try and please everyone. |
SolanioMar 13, 2009 5:46 PM
mana_goddess said: Kyon97 said: can somebody possibly explain how all the magical stuff - the mysterious girl and the robot, the dragon balls, and the mysterious world, ect.. were at all necessary? i thought they were suppose to carry some philosophical message.. am i wrong? I share mana_goddess' understanding of the mysterious elements. I don't think they carry any great moral values or anything. I believe they are just added to make the story more interesting, and to give the creators more artistic freedom by not being bound to the restrictions of the human world. It's a thing Key does. I like it, because after watching/playing the stories, you learn something new and see connections which you did not see before, which again makes it so much more enjoyable to re-watch/play them. i enjoyed seeing them but it would've been so much better if they were actually meaningful |
Tekky99 said: So reading all these speculations, i can't hold myself any longer The truth behind the illusionary world and the light orbs: *phew that was long, hopefully that helps Well that completely makes sense. It's a shame that none of that is even described in the show. I definitely got that the two stories paralleled each other, but I thought they were also paralleled in time, and not sequential. The problem is though that what is added with Fuuko at the end of AS throws everything of kilter as Solanio points out, which again points to a terrible adaptation of the script. As for the whole Karma type deal, I still think it's ridiculous that Tomoya is "punished" for hating a father that physically abused and emotionally neglected him. But maybe I'm just too unforgiving. |
Takeru90 said: Guybrush said: if she'd just died and ushio too this episode could've been so memorable. and what's with this light orbs stuff? parallel world? ok. linked minds in between worlds? ok. magicgirl says her magic spell and everyone's back alive hack? NOOOOO!!!!!!! She is not (directly) responsible for Nagisa surviving the birth; Tomoya is. Please refer to the previous posts in this thread. well you might be right, but that doesn't change anything i just don't like visions/dream's/prophecies solutions just to keep everybody from dieing (or prevent they'll die, whatever) it's simply a cheap way to get full fledged "happy ever after" ending i probably wouldn't even have minded if tomoya actually DID anything special. but it solved itself more or less... well i leave it at that... |
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| As the quotation from Tekky99 confirms, I understand the mechanism of the light orbs. I also believe that the VN presents a sequence of alternate universes, tied together through these orbs, and different Tomoyas progress through them, each aided in turn by the exploits of a Tomoya from a prior universe. I don't see anywhere the rationale as to how within the same timeline we can have people dying and coming back to life, etc. I completely understand what KyoAni was meaning to portray and what it was meant to satisfy, but in doing so I can't regard the anime as a single coherent story anymore. |
Kyon97 said: i enjoyed seeing them but it would've been so much better if they were actually meaningful They aren't completely meaningLESS, because, as Tekky99 points out, by granting other people happiness, Tomoya himself gets the chance to be happy. It's the Golden Rule; do to others as you want others to do to you. A nice moral :) mana_goddess said: I didn't even consider that it could have been a physical meeting. I pretty much interpreted it as a thought process / mysterious otherworldy conversation from the beginning. Huh, guess I completely misunderstood it at first then. I really like how there is so much more to learn about the Clannad universe after having watched the anime. I'll have to play through the game soon :) |
Solanio said: I don't see anywhere the rationale as to how within the same timeline we can have people dying and coming back to life, etc. Time travel. Tomoya went back in time, and therefore changed its flow of events. That's basically the gist of it. The alternate universes aren't really occurring at the same time as each other, but rather one after another. Edit: Actually now that I reread it I may have just rehashed things you already knew. Sorry! |
| nice discussion with elaborate spoilers of the VN.. i understand now how much the after story ending means to fans of the VN, and i suppose it is the most satisfying ending.. however, i still cannot bring myself to like it.. it still feels very unreal and pretty meaningless.. there's no phylosophical significance in it and doesn't give me room to think deeply about it.. of course, collecting everybody's happy memories/light orbs as a sort of karma is a good lesson, but that doesn't mean miracles happen if you're good to everyone.. and there's no turning back and restarting things in life either. i was quite elated when tomoya called out to nagisa and hugged her on the hill, but it all seemed so meaningless when nagisa opened her eyes on her supposedly deathbed. to put it simple, i didnt want a story which says "do good things, and everything will be good" but "dont regret and let go of all the happiness in life because of a few sad things" |
| it was the best epsiode :) |
| Pretty much: the movie is the best version of the game. |
| One thing I am still confused on is what the significance of Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree is / how that fits into the timeline. I know this shows us that the Mysterious Girl is actually Ushio, but there has to be more purpose to it than that. Also, I'm guessing that scene is after the true end. And I'm guessing Nagisa and Tomoya didn't just wander off and leave their daughter under a tree, so when exactly did this happen? I will probably understand once I get to this point in the VN, but I'm not quite there yet and I want to know now :) |
| At first, I was like "Holy shit, that was the most fan service I have EVER seen!" and was rather dissapointed. However, reading this thread really really helped me, but I def. understand NoteDHero's opinion 100%. Although it was a crazy ending, as I look back on it now, it was an amazing anime filled with lots of emotional rides for me. Yeah, I didn't like how it was almost anti-climatic at the end.. Like why did they build it up so much in the alternate world? I guess the game had something to do with that cause when you play I assume you go through it just the same. mana_goddess said: One thing I am still confused on is what the significance of Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree is / how that fits into the timeline. I know this shows us that the Mysterious Girl is actually Ushio, but there has to be more purpose to it than that. Also, I'm guessing that scene is after the true end. And I'm guessing Nagisa and Tomoya didn't just wander off and leave their daughter under a tree, so when exactly did this happen? I will probably understand once I get to this point in the VN, but I'm not quite there yet and I want to know now :) I want to know that part too!! I voted 4/5..But it's bordering 5 or 3, depending how I really wanna stand on it lol. |
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mana_goddess said: One thing I am still confused on is what the significance of Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree is / how that fits into the timeline. I know this shows us that the Mysterious Girl is actually Ushio, but there has to be more purpose to it than that. Also, I'm guessing that scene is after the true end. And I'm guessing Nagisa and Tomoya didn't just wander off and leave their daughter under a tree, so when exactly did this happen? I will probably understand once I get to this point in the VN, but I'm not quite there yet and I want to know now :) The game as the same ending so you probably won't understand anything more than that. Plus, in the game you don't know who is the person that Fuuko finds at the end (Ushio or the Girl from the IW). |
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noteDhero said: Well that completely makes sense. It's a shame that none of that is even described in the show. I definitely got that the two stories paralleled each other, but I thought they were also paralleled in time, and not sequential. The problem is though that what is added with Fuuko at the end of AS throws everything of kilter as Solanio points out, which again points to a terrible adaptation of the script. As for the whole Karma type deal, I still think it's ridiculous that Tomoya is "punished" for hating a father that physically abused and emotionally neglected him. But maybe I'm just too unforgiving. |
| I don't really think Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree really has any significance. I think it's just a way of showing that the things that happened after Nagisa died were going to happen even with her alive, like the train ride, and meeting Tomoya's grandmother. I thought of this as a way of showing that Fuuko and Ushio will still get their playdate. Did anyone else think it was ironic for her to say 'the fun starts here' after the rollercoaster of the past two series? I never played the game, but I actually understand what was going on at the end. But I think everything in anime holds a significance so after I knew what the orbs meant and seeing them during each arc, then how they kept flashing to Nagisa meeting Tomoya. I assumed it involved a time skip. And the illusionary girl never said they couldn't be more worlds, she just said the orbs were from the happiness of people in the other world. |
Tekky99 said: Do you really think that Tomoya would have been a bad father to Ushio had both she and Nagisa never died? I honestly think that Tomoya had already created a family with Nagisa and before his friends before graduating high school. It's a shame that the creators seem to either not think so or ignore that. Tomoya would have been a good father without Nagisa dying. patient_senses said: I don't really think Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree really has any significance. I think it's just a way of showing that the things that happened after Nagisa died were going to happen even with her alive, like the train ride, and meeting Tomoya's grandmother. I thought of this as a way of showing that Fuuko and Ushio will still get their playdate. Did anyone else think it was ironic for her to say 'the fun starts here' after the rollercoaster of the past two series? I never played the game, but I actually understand what was going on at the end. But I think everything in anime holds a significance so after I knew what the orbs meant and seeing them during each arc, then how they kept flashing to Nagisa meeting Tomoya. I assumed it involved a time skip. And the illusionary girl never said they couldn't be more worlds, she just said the orbs were from the happiness of people in the other world. So you say that everything in the anime holds significance, yet Fuuko finding Ushio under the tree has none? I think you're right that it doesn't hold any significance, and slightly wrong that everything in the anime holds significance, but that's a whole other discussion. |
| Ok, finished it. After all the shit they were put through they deserved the happy ending. To those stating that the mysticism came out of nowhere: The other world and the orbs were there since season 1, episode 1. What did you guys expect it to be? A filler? Even the phisical similarity between Nagisa and the other world girl were enough to deduct something. (a surprise it was her daughter tho) The first thing I thought when I saw the robot was "this is the main character". Tomoya does remember, considering that after the time travel when he saw Nagisa for the first time in the bed, he thought she was dead and we saw a kind of flashback of her dead that was most likely from his memory. Also, Key. If you weren´t expecting magic in their shows, you weren´t paying attention to their other productions. If anything, the whole episode felt a little rushed. Mind you, I liked the Fuuka bit, but I´d rather have the full episode for the ending and in episode 23 that fuuko scene. pd: This comes from someone who hasn´t played the VN btw. 9/10 for the series. |
| i was happy everything ended right. multiple dimensions, huh? |
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dlochinski said: You know, with the whole her sleeping under a tree thing, I bet that Ushio ran off by herself like she always did and decided to take a nap or somethin, not very good parenting but its all good :P Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Tomoya's probably at work and Nagisa just let her run off. |
| oh icant belived i cried of happiness in tis series nagisa ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow it crushed me more to see her deah than lelouch.... an exellent ending for an exellent anime when the other world girl said "sayonara papa" i felt like fainting,,,when nagisa awaked too, when ushio as growing up too, when they showed fuko sleeping out there and the other world girl being the same to put it simply this anime needs an award of best thing ever |
| Being a fan is like having a penis. Its nice to be proud of it But don't pull it out in public and wave it in other's faces Kyurem Black. Kyurem White. Together they are Pretty Kyurem. |
| this episode made me cry. i dont know y, it just did. i think the fact that time was "rewound" was a bit of a stretch. I kinda wish nagisa and ushio had just come bk to life. and i thought the illusionary world part was just a little to weird, especially when it exploded. All in all, i enjoyed this ep, especially the end wen fuko makes her apperance!!! But im glad there's still one more ep, that way they dont blow the whole series by leaving it hear. |
.:When life gives you lemons, give them back and ask for strawberries instead:. |
| who in thar right mind cude heat ep 22 |
Eternal-Dragon said: ^ Confusing? How exactly o_0 You cant compare Season 1 to Season 2, since they are almost nothing a like. Season 1 concentrates on Comedy, while Season 2 to is more about Drama. Agreed, there's nothing to compare. But I find season 2 a lot more dramatic :) Eternal-Dragon said: Its obviously complicated for some people to understand. People that doesnt get whats going on then, use this link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/infiltrator65a/inte%20buggat%20album/1236943573387.png Thanks for the link, that's really helpful :) But did Tomoya really get a +1 light bulb in every arc? Where did we see that? *edit* Little Busters! Should be coming shortly ... though I hope they'll go back to making more FMP =.= |
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| it was great i really enjoy the ending. for a moment there it was very sad for tomoya to lose both nagisa and ushio. the saddest moment ever. *tears**sob* have to say it's one of my favorites. |
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| It was an OK ending. I'm just happy they cut poor Tomoya some slack! All the unhappiness in his life was making his story into a super tragic one without the depth of a real tragedy . But I've gotta say that I really enjoyed the art and character design of this series. I just wanted to hug and squeeze Fuuko. |
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simplex_spes said: I suppose Tomoya did find the strength in the end, but that was all taken away when Nagisa was "revived". Tomoya no longer had to live with the loss of his wife. Tomoya no longer had to be the person that he endured to become. This was sad. I see it in another light. He DID gain the strength to continue living, he DID accept the future that was to come, and BECAUSE of that he was given the miracle. Even when he didn't know that Nagisa was going to be revived, he still chose to talk to her once again in that dream sequence, accepting whatever was to happen. It was excellently done in my opinion. At that point we saw everything good that happened to Tomoya in development, and once he accepted all the shit, he was given a second chance to live happily after getting screwed over and over. There was no loss of character development at all in my opinion. |
| now i really want to read the vn |
| Did they really need the last 6 minutes? I felt that if they just left it at that it would have been fine =/ but oh well. |
| hmm... now that the pictures and everything helped everything make sense, I give this series the best score I could give. I mean... it was just epic. this anime is the first one to make me cry and... I just really enjoyed the ride. Now that the special is next, I'm looking forward to it :D |
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kaminakun said: Eternal-Dragon said: ^ Confusing? How exactly o_0 You cant compare Season 1 to Season 2, since they are almost nothing a like. Season 1 concentrates on Comedy, while Season 2 to is more about Drama. Agreed, there's nothing to compare. But I find season 2 a lot more dramatic :) While the feel of the two series is different, I think the drama in the 2nd series couldn't have had near the effect without watching the first. It was the first series that connected us with many of the characters and made us love them. Also, it showed us a lot about how Nagisa and Tomoya's relationship blossomed into what it was in the 2nd series. I think that both series came together and complemented each other very nicely. I definately give this a ten and I plan on re-watching the entire thing from ep 1 of the first season through. on another note, I would like to see Ushio grown up. I figure that she'll look like the girl in the dream world, but I'd like to get more of a look at the personality of the child raised by Tomoya and Nagisa. |
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kimmiechan |
kaminakun said: Hahaha, he actually does. I went back and watched the original season a month or two back and couldn't stop laughing when you started noticing them. The things are all over the place, really. Just have to pay a little closer attention ;)Eternal-Dragon said: ^ Confusing? How exactly o_0 You cant compare Season 1 to Season 2, since they are almost nothing a like. Season 1 concentrates on Comedy, while Season 2 to is more about Drama. Agreed, there's nothing to compare. But I find season 2 a lot more dramatic :) Eternal-Dragon said: Its obviously complicated for some people to understand. People that doesnt get whats going on then, use this link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/infiltrator65a/inte%20buggat%20album/1236943573387.png Thanks for the link, that's really helpful :) But did Tomoya really get a +1 light bulb in every arc? Where did we see that? *edit* Little Busters! Should be coming shortly ... though I hope they'll go back to making more FMP =.= |
"I'd suck you~" Berri||Desu Ne? |
| Im so glad it was a happy ending but at the end I couldnt stand Fuuko anymore! I wanted her to shut up and to see some more about Nagisa and Tomoya. Anyway nice series and all 9/10 but whoever said it is right, the Tomoya we saw, is kinda gone :| |
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| Threads merged |
Shit. I thought she'd never get an upgrade. |
| From what I can understand of the ending, the whole problem of the death of Nagisa and Ushio was because the girl in the another world was always trying to "live", by leaving that lonely place, trying to create some sort of thing to fly away from that planet, the girl that represent the feelings and the miracles of the town was trying get out of there and do something because of that lonely place, she doesnt realize untill de end that she is part of the miracles, feelings and concience of that other planet where Tomoya lives, when she finnaly knows, she realizes what is she, why is she there and what she must do, and then comes the Deus ex machina ending, they are all back alive again, the miracles, the feelings, all the things that made the town special where back again, I can recall that when Nagisa always felt bad it was because in the other planet it was snowing and the girl was cold, the problem with that is not the fact that she didint had nothing to warm up, the problem is that she is not supposed to be in that circunstances when she is that whole planet, she was aislating herself from what she really was, trying to live as a person, in some way, by doing that, the girl, the life of Nagisa and Ushio was cutted down by half, when girl becomes concience of her position, Nagisa and Ushio can live by the 100% of the effects of that lights that came from that planet that represented the hope, miracles, feelings, all the good things, ¿now why Nagisa and Ushio were only afected by that? because that girl was Ushio. Thats what I understood, please reply opinions. |
SkalMar 13, 2009 11:35 PM
| I'm still confused about the ending but i'll not complain (probably rewatch last episodes or read more info), but the ending was too happy for the events that had happen since Nagisa's death...it was too unrealistic, but supernatural events were always there (and a happy ending is most times a good thing), so i still give this a 10 |
| Yay yay, happy end everyone happy, eh. I was really hoping for Ushio NOT to die and for Tomoya to end up with Kyou. Though I am a fan of that pairing, I also thought it would be a good development for the characters. E.g. realizing Kyou isn't trying to replace Nagisa, and that it's okay to live with both kinda thing. I don't know, I'm hoping I can get my Kyou fix with the Visual Novel. But I haven't really heard much about a Kyou ending. |
| WHAT WAS THIS!? Good end lol. Kinda expected some supernatural magic shit like that. Was saucing when they showed everyone. Loved Fuko picking her 1st person pronoun or w/e but I thought the rest of it was played out a tad too long. Would of been fine with a sad end as well, so it's a plus both ways imo. I thought it was great that I got to see the ending I was hoping for, almost shat out a happy man tear. Also it was amazing that they went through all that without kissing lol and this episode made me realize how lucky Tomoya was with all his possible choices. Finally, was sad there was not enough Kyou. |
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| After reading everything after my previous post and thinking through carefully, I'm going to reduce my score for Clannad AS further to a 7 after my drop for it from a 9 to 8. I seriously thought that they should have ended it sad for Episode 22. Clannad AS was good right off the start, when I finished Episode 1, just Episode 1, I already gave it a 9. I found it a lot better than season 1. As the story progresses, I felt that it was worth the 9 I gave it. It was a good mix of happy and sad moments. I laughed and teared plenty from Episode 1 up to Episode 20. But when Episode 21 came, it all changed. For some reason, I didn't tear much, heck, I didn't even tear at all. I dunno why, but I just didn't feel sad at all. But I didn't mind, because after I saw the preview for Episode 22, it would make it all up. I felt that it would make me cry buckets of tears. I thought they would have ended it sad. Since we see Tomoya kinda losing his vision in Episode 21 at the end, I thought they would have made him think about what would become of him if he hadn't met Nagisa, and then come to realize that he wouldn't become who he is right now if he hadn't, and then die without any regrets of meeting Nagisa. Then the story could proceed on to the imaginary world where both the girl and the junk doll just walk into the seemingly endless blizzard. After all that they can bring in all the light orbs and stuffs in Episode 23 titled as an alternate ending or something,and have the happy ending then. That would have been kind of perfect. But no, they just had to bring in the happy ending so soon. The light orbs just come in and form a miracle, and its a happy end. It was like all the sadness accumulated up to Episode 21 just VANISHED. And for some reason I found the Fuuko part at the end slightly stupid. I always laughed at the little bits with Fuuko, but I didn't for this episode. Whether or not if it was an original part of the VN, I do not care, maybe if they had a sadder ending first before this happy end, it would have made a bigger impact on me. And I thought this was a 23 episode series for a reason. I thought they would have made Episode 23 more meaningful. It had better be a little meaningful at least, or my opinion for both this series and KyoAni would drop even further. |
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| Call it an alternate ending. Not say Nagisa and Ushio went back to life or something. |
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Great Ending, great Anime! |
| YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY >_> But.. I r so confuzzedd @_@ |
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| wtf!!!!!!!!!! what happened? time went back wtf!! nagisa alive!! well wtf but still!!!! I LOVED IT! |
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| well~ ... to me it was okay~ |
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| Love this ending now i m going to miss the show xp |
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