Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (light novel)
Zefyris said: CaringPragmatist said: I just want to say something in regards to those complaining about others...complaining about the show not living up to their expectations. Yes the synopsis pretty much broke down the main plot of the show, but not everyone reads it, and to those who just decided to check it out well they were treated to early episodes filled with nothing but action and if anything promising an adrenaline packed fantasy romp. What they got was a closed room mystery in a fantasy setting. I can see why they are upset. I personally enjoy the show...or did so before the bloody pacing became comparable to the pace of a snail. I've read the novel and can see a lot of scenes that could have been handled more quickly to move the story along. Sometimes sticking to the source material far too much can hurt a show, which in my opinion is the case here. The problem is with the anime media itself. Yes there are scenes that could have been shortened, clearly. But you can't cut half of it. meaning that you can't put 2 full volumes in those 12 episodes. so they don't have a choice here. Best pacing would have probably be 9-10 episodes for the first volume. so we should be finished here or almost. But then what do they do with the remaining 3 episodes? 1 cours Anime which do something else than 12-13 episodes are very rare... BEcause this probably doesn't please the tv channels... It's not like the anime crew can just add a onsen episode here, right? But packing 3 volumes into 24 episodes seems like a good idea. |
CaringPragmatist said: OneTrueEmiya said: Yeah, even if he didn't read the synopsis, by ep 5, he should've realised this isn't the run-of-the-mill "MC makes 5 friends, goes on journey to kill bad guy" story. There in lies the problem, for four episodes the show was eluding towards being something it was not. Which understandably will upset some viewers when it shifts gears towards an entirely different focus, and I am sorry but for a show to depend on the synopsis to inform it's viewers of what it is really about is a glaring weakness, a show with an expertly made beginning can immediately hook the audiences it's aiming for from episode one. While I do understand where you're coming from, I feel that shows should not be judged by watching only the first few episodes and deciding what its genre, general story and quality is. Just because the first four episodes (the first two if I'm being nitpicky) seem to be a generic shounen adventure doesn't mean the rest of the season/story should stay the same. Look at S;G ffs, Even if I don't read the synopsis, by just looking at Rokka's picture, I can see there are 7 people. This should start alerting people as to what the anime could be about, particularly with how the anime constantly reminding us that there can only be six heroes for the first three episodes. If someone isn't observant at all and misses all of these hints, then it's only his/her fault, and not the story's. And if some people still can't stand the lack of action/power-ups, then go ahead and drop this for Naruto or something. Just don't berate if for doing something you didn't expect it to. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: CaringPragmatist said: There in lies the problem, for four episodes the show was eluding towards being something it was not. Which understandably will upset some viewers when it shifts gears towards an entirely different focus, and I am sorry but for a show to depend on the synopsis to inform it's viewers of what it is really about is a glaring weakness, a show with an expertly made beginning can immediately hook the audiences it's aiming for from episode one. While I do understand where you're coming from, I feel that shows should not be judged by watching only the first few episodes and deciding what its genre, general story and quality is. Just because the first four episodes (the first two if I'm being nitpicky) seem to be a generic shounen adventure doesn't mean the rest of the season/story should stay the same. Look at S;G ffs, Even if I don't read the synopsis, by just looking at Rokka's picture, I can see there are 7 people. This should start alerting people as to what the anime could be about, particularly with how the anime constantly reminding us that there can only be six heroes for the first three episodes. If someone isn't observant at all and misses all of these hints, then it's only his/her fault, and not the story's. And if some people still can't stand the lack of action/power-ups, then go ahead and drop this for Naruto or something. Just don't berate if for doing something you didn't expect it to. When you say SG I am assuming you mean Steins Gate. Which while agree it does shift in another direction the shift is not fought against because from episode 1 things seemed off and not quite normal which gave an indication and a warning that this isn't your run of the mill slice of life, and while I agree that Rokka constantly mentioned the whole six heroes thing, but we were never really given any hints or clues that insinuated that this isn't your typical adventure series beyond that and that doesn't come into play until ep 5. I enjoy Rokka...well I am trying to but as I mentioned it's pacing isn't doing it any favors, but I understand why people are unhappy with the show they ended up receiving. I am not upset because I happen to like both the fantasy and mystery generes. That in my opinion though does not execuse it's beginning and lack of indication of where it was really going, it doesn't has to be shouting in your face constantly but it should be more than just repeating that there are six heroes. |
CaringPragmatistSep 1, 2015 1:01 AM
CaringPragmatist said: OneTrueEmiya said: While I do understand where you're coming from, I feel that shows should not be judged by watching only the first few episodes and deciding what its genre, general story and quality is. Just because the first four episodes (the first two if I'm being nitpicky) seem to be a generic shounen adventure doesn't mean the rest of the season/story should stay the same. Look at S;G ffs, Even if I don't read the synopsis, by just looking at Rokka's picture, I can see there are 7 people. This should start alerting people as to what the anime could be about, particularly with how the anime constantly reminding us that there can only be six heroes for the first three episodes. If someone isn't observant at all and misses all of these hints, then it's only his/her fault, and not the story's. And if some people still can't stand the lack of action/power-ups, then go ahead and drop this for Naruto or something. Just don't berate if for doing something you didn't expect it to. When you say SG I am assuming you mean Steins Gate. Which while agree it does shift in another direction the shift is not fought against because from episode 1 things seemed off and not quite normal which gave an indication and a warning that this isn't your run of the mill slice of life, and while I agree that Rokka constantly mentioned the whole six heroes thing, but we were never really given any hints or clues that insinuated that this isn't your typical adventure series beyond that and that doesn't come into play until ep 5. I enjoy Rokka...well I am trying to but as I mentioned it's pacing isn't doing it any favors, but I understand why people are unhappy with the show they ended up receiving. I am not upset because I happen to like both the fantasy and mystery generes. Rokka no Yuusha's 'genre shift', if you could call it that, can only be appreciated by the end of this arc. I'm sure CaringPragmatist, you know what I mean as it isn't really a genre shift because the mystery had essentially already started dropping clues by episode 2 onwards. If Rokka was being critiqued on its adventure aspect then episodes 2-4 are really poor in terms of that criterion. On a mystery level, however, those episodes were pretty good by setting up a relaxing atmosphere, focusing on character interactions more than fighting with fiends, and a lot of exposition on horseback (or on foot). Rokka thrives on its BUILD up of tension and those preliminary episodes were the perfect platform for it. Just imagine if there was more action in those episodes, the amount of tension at this point in the story would just plateau - a perfect example of why setup in mystery matters. |
FrrrostySep 1, 2015 1:15 AM
Frrrosty said: CaringPragmatist said: When you say SG I am assuming you mean Steins Gate. Which while agree it does shift in another direction the shift is not fought against because from episode 1 things seemed off and not quite normal which gave an indication and a warning that this isn't your run of the mill slice of life, and while I agree that Rokka constantly mentioned the whole six heroes thing, but we were never really given any hints or clues that insinuated that this isn't your typical adventure series beyond that and that doesn't come into play until ep 5. I enjoy Rokka...well I am trying to but as I mentioned it's pacing isn't doing it any favors, but I understand why people are unhappy with the show they ended up receiving. I am not upset because I happen to like both the fantasy and mystery generes. Rokka no Yuusha's 'genre shift', if you could call it that, can only be appreciated by the end of this arc. I'm sure CaringPragmatist, you know what I mean as it isn't really a genre shift because the mystery had essentially already started dropping clues by episode 2 onwards. If Rokka was being critiqued on its adventure aspect then episodes 2-4 are really poor in terms of that criterion. On a mystery level, however, those episodes were pretty good by setting up a relaxing atmosphere, focusing on character interactions more than fighting with fiends, and a lot of exposition on horseback (or on foot). Rokka thrives on its BUILD up of tension and those preliminary episodes were the perfect platform for it. Just imagine if there was more action in those episodes, the amount of tension at this point in the story would just plateau - a perfect example of why setup in mystery matters. Oh I am not advocating for more action, on the contrary I believe it had just the right amount. Yes I agree that a good mystery needs build up, and one could say that these episodes did that job, but possibly because of the setting, nature of the characters and the early episodes being more action packed and travel oriented that some viewers saw it for something that it was not. I don't see a genre shift what I saw was a shift of focus that could have been handled better by setting up the tone of the first episodes maybe a bit slower and more geared towards setting up expectations while balancing it with build up for the upcoming mystery. |
| I have a feeling people would appreciate this more by binge watching it, as the slow progress of the story would be less evident. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
geralt said: I have a feeling people would appreciate this more by binge watching it, as the slow progress of the story would be less evident. Nope, I didn't start watching this until episode 8 came out and I still think it's crap and I'm a fan of both mystery and fantasy generally speaking. Unfortunately Rokka no Yuusha just isn't very good. |
| honestly this series didn't mix fantasy and detective gerne so well it just so contradict i can't take this thing serious when criminal/Fake can use special power later normal trick and it just one mystery case too that make lack of variety case. |
neolucaman said: honestly this series didn't mix fantasy and detective gerne so well it just so contradict i can't take this thing serious when criminal/Fake can use special power later normal trick and it just one mystery case too that make lack of variety case. ...Wut? |
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neolucaman said: honestly this series didn't mix fantasy and detective gerne so well it just so contradict i can't take this thing serious when criminal/Fake can use special power later normal trick and it just one mystery case too that make lack of variety case. Tell that to the real anime critics, they put Rokka at number 1 for this season for episode 8 & 9. Rokka has been at the top 5 consistently now on APR (Anime Power Rankings). That's against sequel shows as well mind you. Here's a link:http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20150902/anime-power-rankings-better-late-than-never-summer-week-8/ |
Tylaen said: neolucaman said: honestly this series didn't mix fantasy and detective gerne so well it just so contradict i can't take this thing serious when criminal/Fake can use special power later normal trick and it just one mystery case too that make lack of variety case. ...Wut? Not sure if I'm still half-awake or something, but I can't make sense of it either :/ |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Tylaen said: ...Wut? Not sure if I'm still half-awake or something, but I can't make sense of it either :/ It's hard to read, but it seems that neolucaman complains that with special powers potentially involved, it is impossible to find an answer. answer: The cool thing is, Rokka no Yuusha is made so that special powers don't ruin its detective aspect. He also complains that there is only 1 case, so there isn't enough variety. answer: Read the novels. There is quite a number of cunning plans ahead. |
flannan said: OneTrueEmiya said: Not sure if I'm still half-awake or something, but I can't make sense of it either :/ It's hard to read, but it seems that neolucaman complains that with special powers potentially involved, it is impossible to find an answer. answer: The cool thing is, Rokka no Yuusha is made so that special powers don't ruin its detective aspect. He also complains that there is only 1 case, so there isn't enough variety. answer: Read the novels. There is quite a number of cunning plans ahead. yes that what i want to said and i said why special powers is cheating because this anime didn't specify deny teleport or psychic power which make locked room case too easy to create or i miss when the cast explain that part so i guess LN already deny those cheating power never exist these world. |
neolucaman said: flannan said: It's hard to read, but it seems that neolucaman complains that with special powers potentially involved, it is impossible to find an answer. answer: The cool thing is, Rokka no Yuusha is made so that special powers don't ruin its detective aspect. He also complains that there is only 1 case, so there isn't enough variety. answer: Read the novels. There is quite a number of cunning plans ahead. yes that what i want to said and i said why special powers is cheating because this anime didn't specify deny teleport or psychic power which make locked room case too easy to create or i miss when the cast explain that part so i guess LN already deny those cheating power never exist these world. The only ones with special powers among humans are the saints and it was firmly denied that such a saint exists. |
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| Well, this is not ranked high enough simply because people are too lazy to think about stuff that they are watching, so they just want to have fights with stupid dialgoues and good animation. I think that is the case. Sadly enough, huh? |
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| matter of taste, so sick of these questions all the time. |
OneTrueEmiya said: Forgetfulness said: I wonder how you reached that conclusion. Because it certain wasn't by paying attention to certain details that could have told you otherwise. Like I dunno, reading the synopsis Yeah, even if he didn't read the synopsis, by ep 5, he should've realised this isn't the run-of-the-mill "MC makes 5 friends, goes on journey to kill bad guy" story. This is why the score went down. Lots of people dropped it after the first few episodes promised an adventure and they ended up with a mystery. Read the forums, there are DOZENS of people posting WTFs over them not getting out of the barrier after an episode or two. One friend's jaw literally dropped when I told him the whole season would be in the barrier. He felt like a genius for having dropped the show. For a mystery it's meant for little kids who won't notice or won't care about all the massive plot holes and character flaws, like being a serial killer or an assassin or a super effective kid who would rather murder someone than spend a few seconds figuring out a puzzle. It's pretty much a wreck of a show if you aren't a kid or if you don't have your brain shut off, but that isn't at all uncommon for anime, which is aimed at kids, and particularly true this cour which is especially weak. sensei69 said: Well, this is not ranked high enough simply because people are too lazy to think about stuff that they are watching, so they just want to have fights with stupid dialgoues and good animation. I think that is the case. Sadly enough, huh? I'm giving it a low score because it is a mystery and you're supposed to think about it, so I did, and what I thought was that it is just about the worst mystery I've ever read, listened to or seen. Had they just stuck to adventure I would have left my brain off and enjoyed it more, but as soon as you start thinking about this show it becomes a disaster full of stupid stupid stupid holes. |
SokahSep 3, 2015 11:14 AM
| What the fuck is happening here... |
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neolucaman said: flannan said: It's hard to read, but it seems that neolucaman complains that with special powers potentially involved, it is impossible to find an answer. answer: The cool thing is, Rokka no Yuusha is made so that special powers don't ruin its detective aspect. He also complains that there is only 1 case, so there isn't enough variety. answer: Read the novels. There is quite a number of cunning plans ahead. yes that what i want to said and i said why special powers is cheating because this anime didn't specify deny teleport or psychic power which make locked room case too easy to create or i miss when the cast explain that part so i guess LN already deny those cheating power never exist these world. They were denied already. Not namely one by one but they were denied as not being possible in this world by both Mora and Fremy. The whole point in this show to have two person confirming some things is that if two persons confirm it then there isn't a possibility of a lie, but if only one confirms it, then the lie is possible. This is made so that readers can effectively understands the proper limits of supernatural powers in this words so that the whole mystery isn't broken by such things. That's why it takes a logn time to reach the explanation. BEcause since it's in a world with magic, if the author doesn't do this, then the whole detective part won't stand correctly and be a failure like it always was in other works. The strength of the author is that he found out a very effective way to actually incorporate fantasy inside a detective story without breaking one of the two. I don't know any other author who can do that. So as for the peoples saying the story is bad, you're clearly missing completely the reality. But the best is to wait for the explanation from the show. Then you'll understand. If the peoples in the thread who said to like detective shows didn't lie, they'll understand exactly what makes RnY so incredible as a work. And if they still don't, that's just their loss to not understand the greatness of it. As I said, as a fan of fantasy and detective, and as a bookworm, when i finished this first volume is was completely astounded. I didn't even expect the author to manage to do it. I thought he would fail like all the other. As I said before, this show is niche so most peoples will not like it anyway. But as this kind of work, it is the best story I ever read. |
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darboux said: The way the mystery will be solved and how inteligent the plan was would prolly be the main factor to rate this show. Exactly. In a detective show, the final explanation kill or make the story. Giving a rating before hearing it, it beiing good or bad, is meaningless. The others things can be rated now, like music, animation and other stuff, but the scenario cannot~. |
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Sokah said: For a mystery it's meant for little kids who won't notice or won't care about all the massive plot holes and character flaws, like being a serial killer or an assassin or a super effective kid who would rather murder someone than spend a few seconds figuring out a puzzle. Teams of quirky characters are a staple of anime. Also, there are no serial killers on the team - Hans and Fremy are professional assassins, not crazy people who suddenly flip out and kill others for no reason. Unlike, say, Shiki from Tsukihime (that was the most unrealistic way to meet a girl in all the anime, I'd say). Chamo isn't "super-effective". She just has run out of patience in a day, and is the kind of person who would kill others with no remorse (It's called "sociopath" or something like that). Even she understands it is not the best solution, but can't handle all the stuff that's happening. There are no known massive plot holes, except that nobody thought to ask how to turn the barrier off. Well, the answer is probably something like "think hard to turn it off" or "wait 3 weeks, it will break down by itself", so that it won't give the 7th away. |
CaringPragmatist said: Except that Rokka no Yuusha isn't depending on a synopsis added by some random internet user on a western based website. And hey, this must be an expertly made beginning then since it drew me in immediately. First thing I noticed about this show is that it pays great attention to detail and that has been the selling point for me since. That hasn't changed and if anything, is fortified by its shift towards this mystery. There in lies the problem, for four episodes the show was eluding towards being something it was not. Which understandably will upset some viewers when it shifts gears towards an entirely different focus, and I am sorry but for a show to depend on the synopsis to inform it's viewers of what it is really about is a glaring weakness, a show with an expertly made beginning can immediately hook the audiences it's aiming for from episode one. It's not the show's fault people turned their brains off, I mean dedicating the entire first episode to showing us how Adlet's arm heals over time should have been an indication that this wasn't going to be about the braves slaying demons and naming their attacks. |
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flannan said: Sokah said: For a mystery it's meant for little kids who won't notice or won't care about all the massive plot holes and character flaws, like being a serial killer or an assassin or a super effective kid who would rather murder someone than spend a few seconds figuring out a puzzle. Teams of quirky characters are a staple of anime. Also, there are no serial killers on the team - Hans and Fremy are professional assassins, not crazy people who suddenly flip out and kill others for no reason. Unlike, say, Shiki from Tsukihime (that was the most unrealistic way to meet a girl in all the anime, I'd say). Chamo isn't "super-effective". She just has run out of patience in a day, and is the kind of person who would kill others with no remorse (It's called "sociopath" or something like that). Even she understands it is not the best solution, but can't handle all the stuff that's happening. There are no known massive plot holes, except that nobody thought to ask how to turn the barrier off. Well, the answer is probably something like "think hard to turn it off" or "wait 3 weeks, it will break down by itself", so that it won't give the 7th away. Wow have you read the tsukihime visual novel XD. You have no idea what your talking about in regards to shiki. Also in rokka they tried to deactivate the barrier but they have no idea. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| tfw 7.71 isn't high enough. |
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| I will do my part with a 8 or 9,i still have to decide. Second Season please :-( |
| Well, I'd rate the first season/volume as a solid 8.0 - 8.5, but by far the weakest segment of the series. |
| Probably because most people prefer constant action, even if the plot, world-building, and characters aren't as unique and complex :/ There's a huge amount of people who have no patience for mysteries, even one as good at this one. I personally really respect the fact that this show is so much more than just mindless action, isn't ruining itself with pointless ecchi scenes, and is daring to be unique even though it may not be as popular. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like a huge amount of people feel that way... |
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black1blade said: flannan said: Teams of quirky characters are a staple of anime. Also, there are no serial killers on the team - Hans and Fremy are professional assassins, not crazy people who suddenly flip out and kill others for no reason. Unlike, say, Shiki from Tsukihime (that was the most unrealistic way to meet a girl in all the anime, I'd say). Chamo isn't "super-effective". She just has run out of patience in a day, and is the kind of person who would kill others with no remorse (It's called "sociopath" or something like that). Even she understands it is not the best solution, but can't handle all the stuff that's happening. There are no known massive plot holes, except that nobody thought to ask how to turn the barrier off. Well, the answer is probably something like "think hard to turn it off" or "wait 3 weeks, it will break down by itself", so that it won't give the 7th away. Wow have you read the tsukihime visual novel XD. You have no idea what your talking about in regards to shiki. Also in rokka they tried to deactivate the barrier but they have no idea. I have read Tsukihime visual novel. Shiki is a serial killer who is prone to randomly attacking non-humans. Sure, he has a lot of excuses: demon hunter ancestry, tough childhood, died way too much... Killing Arcueid who was randomly passing by still makes him an insane serial killer. |
| I can see why people wouldn't like this series, and they would probably say thta it is boring and nmothing is happening. But even though I thought myself that it was rather boring since they have stayed in the same area since episode 4, but the mystery aspect is actually quite good and that's enough to keep me watching. Hopefully the final episodes will be equally good or better than episode 10. |
| Good god, there are still people who realize what genre this is? Even if you hadn't read the synopsis slow pacing, meticulous detail and heavy dialogue nature of ep 1-4 should aroused you suspicions this was being setup. |
Jagd84 said: Good god, there are still people who realize what genre this is? Even if you hadn't read the synopsis slow pacing, meticulous detail and heavy dialogue nature of ep 1-4 should aroused you suspicions this was being setup. My thoughts exactly. |
| Did this show drop in rankings? It was in the 700s if I recall but now is hitting up close to a 1000. |
Gov said: People was expecting fight with Demon God . despite what genre it is and what synopsis says they still rage that they didn't get fight with Majin ( yeah ppl like that exist :P )Did this show drop in rankings? It was in the 700s if I recall but now is hitting up close to a 1000. |
Gov said: Did this show drop in rankings? It was in the 700s if I recall but now is hitting up close to a 1000. http://anime.daanst.net/?show=28497 The highest it reached was rank 875 after the first episode. It dropped since then but start going up again. ViciLockhart said: Gov said: People was expecting fight with Demon God . despite what genre it is and what synopsis says they still rage that they didn't get fight with Majin ( yeah ppl like that exist :P )Did this show drop in rankings? It was in the 700s if I recall but now is hitting up close to a 1000. You should stop assuming that its the only reason why the score went down. |
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| When you want to check MAL's score progression over the course of the episodes, there is a club who register that kind of thing. HEre is the direct thread for summer data : http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1399634 |
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| Seems to me this show is much better than a lot of crap before it in the rankings. Solid animations, good visual, nice voice acting, solid mystery and enough excitement to keep the viewer watching. |
Gov said: Seems to me this show is much better than a lot of crap before it in the rankings. Solid animations, good visual, nice voice acting, solid mystery and enough excitement to keep the viewer watching. MAL rankings, always in a shambles ;) |
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| I never rate a show until it finishes and other people will do the same. I expect the ratings to change after the final episode. so far it's a 9-10 depending on the last episode. I've loved this show. |
| For me it's 8 until I can confirm that BD solves most of the animation problem, in which case it will probably raise to 9. |
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Crashmatt said: I never rate a show until it finishes and other people will do the same. I expect the ratings to change after the final episode. so far it's a 9-10 depending on the last episode. I've loved this show. Yup, altough for me it'S 8-9 |
Crashmatt said: I never rate a show until it finishes and other people will do the same. I expect the ratings to change after the final episode. so far it's a 9-10 depending on the last episode. I've loved this show. I'll probably rate this a 9, so long as the final episode doesn't disappoint. |
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| Very solid 8 but if the animation was top quality with BS then 9. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| For me it's a 10. Best anime of the year for me i don't care really for animation :D |
| for me it's 8/10 right now. maybe i change my mind later ( i dont know :P ). |
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NowOrNever88 said: Ive watched this since pretty much the beginning, which is near when I started using MaL actively, and Ive actually seen Rokka go down since the mystery started :/ Such a shame. |
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| I can't believe it didn't even get an 8. Geez.. those impatient people. Later in the novel, beside wondering who is the 7th, there're a lot of fighting though.. |
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hokaru said: it's not really about fighting tho. :sI can't believe it didn't even get an 8. Geez.. those impatient people. Later in the novel, beside wondering who is the 7th, there're a lot of fighting though.. btw the words later in the novel shouldnt be used here, since the rating is about anime not LN. |
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