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stAtic91 said: Selesnija said: It's obviously Hassan. Even the title of the episode is "Return of the Assassin..."They did a fucking good job at fleshing out the characters. Thus, everyone should know that this was not Rider, for he would not use kidnapping as a means to win. LOL ^ Thess said: Since many others asked. Fate/Zero Material page 102: "For Kiritsugu the sacrificing of his wife for the completion of the Holy Grail would be a "betrayal of his wife's love", no matter what anyone said, so he needed to be able to commit that betrayal without hesitation. His physical relationship with Maiya was practice of betrayal for him, and a form of self-harm in order to strenghten himself. As an excuse for adultery it's pretty low, but because Maiya herself had no problem with it it became a negative spiral. Shirou should not learn anything about women from this Dad." Wow to think Kiritsugu would go so far to do this...just wow. I dont know if I should be pissed about this or if I should be amazed by this. The last sentence made me LOL so hard. It kind of ruined the seriousness of the whole paragraph xD; |
| Nice moment with berserker |
| Maiya ;_; |
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| Well... can't wait for the next episode. |
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| It was strange that Iris didn't die after that talk with Kiritsugu, totally seemed like farewell and why the hell didn't he take her in his arms. Man cries at the end again, his life is so fucked up, everyone around him dies. Berserker was awesome but I don't like how little screen time he and Kariya had so far. Someone needs to kill Zouken NOW, bastard doing all that shit to Sakura and Kariya. Rider is my favorite servant, I like to hear him talk and he is strong as hell. No way he was that at the end, though. Maiya's death sucked, don't make her die in some shitty storehouse, almost eveyone who died so far didn't deserve their respective deaths in my opinion, the worst one was Lancer, I will never forget that. |
Zhou said: It was strange that Iris didn't die after that talk with Kiritsugu, totally seemed like farewell and why the hell didn't he take her in his arms. Man cries at the end again, his life is so fucked up, everyone around him dies. Berserker was awesome but I don't like how little screen time he and Kariya had so far. Someone needs to kill Zouken NOW, bastard doing all that shit to Sakura and Kariya. Rider is my favorite servant, I like to hear him talk and he is strong as hell. No way he was that at the end, though. Maiya's death sucked, don't make her die in some shitty storehouse, almost eveyone who died so far didn't deserve their respective deaths in my opinion, the worst one was Lancer, I will never forget that. Meh, I think that Maiya was content about her death. What do you think would have been better - for her to die on some glorious battlefield? Given that she was broken as a result of being forced into fighting wars as a child, I think that dying in a shed with the only person who accepted her holding her is a bit better. |
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Thess said: Topgunuk69 said: Well it depends on what you're saying there. I mean Rider and Caster being willing to have sex with their masters fits with the historical figures they represent (as does Caster's raping little boys) but the idea that they were having sex with them doesn't fit with the Master's characters or the character relationships we're shown. The one ufotable referred many times as couples? Mmm. Even Takeuchi says that Team Cool are married. Meanwhile, Waver and Rider are the Shirou and Saber in Fate/Zero. Official manga symbolism to make it even clearer. I'll spoil the rest since it's off topic-ish. Judging from the amount of mana needed for each servant and spent, Kirei and Gil : very likely. they certainly can't get that much prana to maintain Gil's form for a whole ten years only by kidnapping victims and draining out their prana (the victims are all normal humans with low amount of prana). With the grail still recovering from the last war, the prana cost should all goes to Kirei. Even with Independent Action active, to use Enuma Elish repeatedly should consume a lot of prana. Saber and Iri : unlikely. unlike Sola-Ui whose purpose is to supply prana to Lancer, Irisviel needs every prana she could spare to survive until the end of the war. Sharing prana with Saber isn't the best option out there. At worst she could die before the war ends. Iskander and Waver : likely, since there's no way Gen wrote the LN without prior research regarding the historical characters. There's gotta be a reason on why he is paired with Waver Velvet. At first I thought that it is 100% platonic, but after Rider said that Waver's magic circuit has gotten better than before (plus the dream scene which is similar to Shirou's case) it make me wonder to some extent... Berserker and Kariya : very likely. that symbolic scene has been used over and over again in FSN. Caster and Ryuunosuke : 50-50. Ryuunosuke is not a proper magus, so that's the only way to supply Caster with enough prana to use his NP. But maybe Caster got his prana from the kidnapped children. Maybe he doesn't even need any supply of prana to use his NP, since he is a Caster who naturally has large amounts of prana. |
Reim_SeranthMay 20, 2012 11:19 PM
 ~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer) |
wishbook said: Kirei and Gil : very likely. they certainly can't get that much prana to maintain Gil's form for a whole ten years only by kidnapping victims and draining out their prana (the victims are all normal humans with low amount of prana). With the grail still recovering from the last war, the prana cost should all goes to Kirei. Even with Independent Action active, to use Enuma Elish repeatedly should consume a lot of prana. Nope, there is no need for that since so even if he lost all his mana he wouldn't disappear. "Batteries" were pretty much only to make sure he doesn't run out of prana during War and can swordspam people to death. That and quite a lot of For the Evulz thrown in. |
| Hahah wow, this spawned serious conversation? Ok... Fate/Zero erotic cut. Wat. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 2:17 AM
| ITT: sex Carry on please I'm enjoying this. Better than F/Z threads in /a/ and we all know how that board is. |
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| Haven't heard the op for almost 3 weeks, hence it gave me goosebumps(again). I really like the relationship between Waver Velvet and Rider, sometimes they made me smile, and sometimes they moved me a little. Got confused for a few seconds when Rider intrude. I think either there's scenes cut away, or it's done on purpose so that we won't get to see Rider's face(because I don't think it's Rider who kidnapped Irisviel). I kinda lol when Saber still bother to change to formal wear when she went to get her motorcycle. I know it doesn't matter though. |
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| great episode .... but i didnt expect from rider to do that oh .. wait , why they didnt show his face ; why he runaway ? he killed a normal human , the ego of rider dont allowed him to do that .. that's not the behaviours of rider ... |
Totentanz said: It's interesting to see how much alike these two women Kiritsugu has on his side truly are. Both are supporting him with all they have but in the end it's Kiritsugu himself who they are fighting for, not his ideals. Irisviel is unable to comprehend his concepts as a homunculus, without having seen anything of the world that made her husband pursue his dream. Maya is only helping him because he is everything she can cling to. Ultimately Kiritsugu is alone on his conquest to save the world even though it doesn't appear this way with these two on his side. Speaking of Maya, her remark of being dead inside reminded me of both Kirei and Shiro, who also are "empty". While Kirei fills the emptiness within with the sadistic traits he becomes aware of, Shiro seeks to reach this goal by doing good deeds. Maya takes yet another approach by using a specific person, Kiritsugu, as a substitute for what she lacks. Interestingly, it's his hard, unapproachable side that she seems to favour instead of the emotional one he showed her before her death, though that also may only be because that's the state when he is the least vulnerable ergo the most favourable for him to win the war. On another note, just like Diarmud's curse, Iskandar's remorse when realizing that it was merely a dream, a fairytale many of his men died for, seems to be foreboding for what is yet to come... Another interesting thing is that between the three women he has on his side the one that understand most what he is really fighting for is Saber while being the one he has the most collision. The disagreement comes because both realize what the other is after and why he/she is the way he/she is and probably both see that each ones logic has some right points. The other women where basically indifferent, they just follow him because is all they have. They don't really care about all the beliefs and theories of wars and the impact on the world. |
| Ha, episode's title totally spoils the intrigue in the end =D. I see what they did there! |
KlimatMay 21, 2012 7:59 AM
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| Glad the flashback episodes are over. I hope Kiritsugu's gonna lose :3 |
| I see dead people. |
Monad said: Indeed. Actually, it's rather tragic Maiya lives and dies a tool with no cares or goals whatsoever. Kiritsugu treats Saber as a tool yet Saber is really the only one who actually knows the path he is walking as she herself walked it until the day she realized her folly (only to fall on the greater folly of wanting to undo everything).Another interesting thing is that between the three women he has on his side the one that understand most what he is really fighting for is Saber while being the one he has the most collision. The disagreement comes because both realize what the other is after and why he/she is the way he/she is and probably both see that each ones logic has some right points. The other women where basically indifferent, they just follow him because is all they have. They don't really care about all the beliefs and theories of wars and the impact on the world. Nintendosoni said: I can't help but chuckle.Glad the flashback episodes are over. I hope Kiritsugu's gonna lose :3 |
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| guys what's the relation between birds and magical barriers ? |
loub31 said: guys what's the relation between birds and magical barriers ? If the barrier was actually functional then neither the birds or Kiritsugu would have been able to enter the Tohsaka Estate. The fact that they had landed in the yard indicated that the barrier had fallen apart, and the reason that the barrier had fallen apart is because Tokiomi was no longer alive to maintain it. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| ah .. ok ; in the other side Rider said that he can use his noble phantasm just one more time ; why that ? it's a condition or what ? |
loub31 said: A good magic barrier is built to keep lifeforms out as a first line of defense, so the fact that birds are casually inside where a normal skilled mage's barrier should be raises suspicion.guys what's the relation between birds and magical barriers ? |
loub31 said: Ionian Heitairoi is a powerful NP. It has a large consumption of prana. Rider used it two times in a row in two nights, that's why he's in spirit form in this episode. He's able to recover enough prana with him being in the spot where he was summoned plus getting some from Waver but it is only enough to use that NP one more time.ah .. ok ; in the other side Rider said that he can use his noble phantasm just one more time ; why that ? it's a condition or what ? |
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| Kinda slow episode this week, I didn't feel anything for Maiya's death lol. Well 5 more eps to go, ufotable better saving them budget for the action eps coming up. |
Lumathy said: Kinda slow episode this week, I didn't feel anything for Maiya's death lol. Well 5 more eps to go, ufotable better saving them budget for the action eps coming up. Does anyone actually care about Maiya? I was like "mm, okay, she's dead, fine" :) |
| I see dead people. |
Nintendosoni said: I didn't particularly care about her since she hasn't had much characterization, but I did like her and it was still quite an emotional scene to me. I care about Kiritsugu so seeing him lose everyone and suffer so much is a bit hard.Lumathy said: Kinda slow episode this week, I didn't feel anything for Maiya's death lol. Does anyone actually care about Maiya? I was like "mm, okay, she's dead, fine" :) |
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Nintendosony said: Does anyone actually care about Maiya? I was like "mm, okay, she's dead, fine" :) I definitely did. She and Irisviel are pretty much all Kiritsugu have left (excluding Ilya of course). It was more of "another loss for Kiritsugu" sad than a "MAIYA NO!!" for me though. Her past story is once again the spitting image of another tragedy the current world that Kiritsugu wants to change created. Kiritsugu holding back his tears just made the scene that much more powerful. Maiya was a loyal sidekick until the very end, I respect her. Also, it was nice seeing Rider and Saber after so long. The kidnapping of Iri got me by surprise. I expected Kotomine, not ISKANDA. As sad as it was seeing Iri's condition, I'm glad Kiritsugu has Avalon now. He needs an advantage after what Kotomine pulled off recently. |
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| Being Kiritsugu is suffering. 'nuff said. |
| While Archer, Rider and Saber are focusing on each other they seem to ignore Berserker The attack of Rider on Irisvile surprised me Not sure why he killed Maiya as well which makes me more curious about her background |
| they should have included Maiya's conversation with Iri about her child(maybe BD?).And i would like it even more if Berserker had a face which was twisted with rage shrouded in darkness than the Ghost Rider face they put.That's the second time I was a little bit disappointed by ufotable.The first was back at ep 1 1st season.... As for the change of Kiritsugu's target from Waver to Tokiomi I didnt really cared.the hair magecraft thing Kiritsugu and Maiya had to warn each other would feel really random without being described like in the LN so it was better like this. Also the scene Kariya saw when Berserker grabbed him |
ssjokgMay 21, 2012 1:36 PM
| It can't be Rider. He was resting at that time and has no reason to go after Iri. He's interested only in Saber. But who else could it be? Gilgamesh? No way. I don't think he's capable of such thing as transformation and besides he has no reason to go after Iri. Kirei might have reason (to lure out Kiritsugu) but he didn't seem to be concerned about that. |
PerlaNemesis said: It can't be Rider. He was resting at that time and has no reason to go after Iri. He's interested only in Saber. But who else could it be? Gilgamesh? No way. I don't think he's capable of such thing as transformation and besides he has no reason to go after Iri. Kirei might have reason (to lure out Kiritsugu) but he didn't seem to be concerned about that. It was probably Rider. He was resting for the entire day already, I'm sure he had enough mana to kidnap some fools. And it is BECAUSE he is interested in Saber that he kidnapped Iri. Rider had no way of knowing Kiritsugu sent Saber after them, so he initiated it instead. Think of it as a bargaining chip, the same way Kiritsugu used Sola Ui to bait Kayneth. And it can't be anyone else. It is specifically stated once a servant is destroyed another cannot be summoned. Tokiomi and Kirei also stated every assassin was wiped out. Therefore, the only culprit is Rider. |
| I'm going to enjoy next week forum threads. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 4:17 PM
Thess said: I'm going to enjoy next week forum threads. The shitstorm when people start hating on who they think to be the kuurest servant and their favourite master. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: The shitstorm when people start hating on who they think to be the kuurest servant and their favourite master. It's too bad that all the Master/Servant teams I like get a |
| Can't wait for Rider to die. :I |
| Real Hell is inside a person-Ai Enma (Jigoku Shoujo Mitsuganae) Do you know where hell is? Inside your head-Chrona (Soul Eater)  |
| And Maiya makes her exit. That makes her the third woman close to Kiritsugu to have died (not counting his mother). Judging from Irisviel's unique condition, it seems she won't be holding out for long as well. More development in this episode for Maiya (her last), and Irisviel, shedding light on their reasons and motivations. We finally see a glimpse of Berserker speaking, albeit only in Kariya's nightmares. Zouken's pure evil methods demonstrate why Kariya left the Matou in the beginning, and ironically was a decision that became the source of all his present suffering. Kiritsugu discovers that someone else beat him to the punch with killing Tokiomi. Even though Rider is supposedly resting, he apparently abducted Irisviel, for reasons unknown. |
| i really can't believe how much a person rambles, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and ramble, and complain, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and complain, and ramble and became such a great director in this forum which certainly talks, and ramble, and complain like he certainly knows the dos and don'ts of how to make the show a lot better for his taste damn, why waste his talent in mouthful of words and just practice his oh-so-good-self for the position |
| Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch. |
| Fuuu, Kiritsugu. Actually crying for Maiya. Jeez, luck sure isn't with him or Maiya. Also, I loved how Saber appeared after she was summoned by the command spell: a bit of a mahou shoujo appearance with all the lights. Irisviel, please be okay... |
| Dutch anime blogger with a love for Ikuhara's antics and proper storytelling. |
| Great episode, it got quite emotional when Maiya died. Saber went mad and wants to kick riders ass. The insect guy is tortured by the creepy old man once more, I wonder what happened to that kid that he is trying (tried?) to save. Looking forward to the next episode, the last couple of episodes have been amazing. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
| I don't really get it, why would Iskander kidnap Iri like that? That so doesn't sound like he would do, I always thought of him being an honorable Servent but oh well, we'll see on the next episode and find out. |
| Signature removed. Please check your private messages. |
Otaku-Ninja said: I don't really get it, why would Iskander kidnap Iri like that? That so doesn't sound like he would do, I always thought of him being an honorable Servent but oh well, we'll see on the next episode and find out. Maybe he's actually recovering with Waver until nightfall since that's what their plan was from the scene of their dialogue. Hmm... Or perhaps he's just a closet asshole who'll do anything to show Saber her place. |
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| I don't want to see any more troll posts in this topic or others. You should all know that trolling is not allowed. |
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| but seriously guys ... how did kiritsugu know that the spot of blood belong to Tokoyomi? |
loub31 said: but seriously guys ... how did kiritsugu know that the spot of blood belong to Tokoyomi? The traces of Tokiomi in the basement and the ones from the blood in the upper floor had were the same(not sure how to say it with my low level english).Combine this with the inactive field and that the only person except from Tokiomi in the mansion(Kirei) wouldnt waste his time in a basement full of magecraft tools/books convinced him that the blood was Tokiomi's. |
Trenerka said: wishbook said: Kirei and Gil : very likely. they certainly can't get that much prana to maintain Gil's form for a whole ten years only by kidnapping victims and draining out their prana (the victims are all normal humans with low amount of prana). With the grail still recovering from the last war, the prana cost should all goes to Kirei. Even with Independent Action active, to use Enuma Elish repeatedly should consume a lot of prana. Nope, there is no need for that since so even if he lost all his mana he wouldn't disappear. "Batteries" were pretty much only to make sure he doesn't run out of prana during War and can swordspam people to death. That and quite a lot of For the Evulz thrown in. I see. Thanks for the information. loub31 said: but seriously guys ... how did kiritsugu know that the spot of blood belong to Tokoyomi? From what I could grasp in this episode, He pours something that looks like some magical substance that could detect a person's remnants on Tokiomi's chair in the basement. The chair's surface then becomes yellow. It signifies that Tokiomi's magical remnants are yellow-colored. Then he went back to Tokiomi's study room, and pours the same substance to the blood spot on the carpet. The blood-stained carpet becomes yellow too, the same color as the yellow in the basement. The conclusion is that the blood on the carpet is Tokiomi's, thus he is dead. Poor Rin and Aoi... |
~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer) |
| wait why did the best posts got deleted? such a shame. Otaku-Ninja said: I don't really get it, why would Iskander kidnap Iri like that? That so doesn't sound like he would do, I always thought of him being an honorable Servent but oh well, we'll see on the next episode and find out. it's obviously not him, Rider the Great would never do something like that. |
wishbook said: He can, character material from Nasu and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia tell you that...I see. Thanks for the information. |
Leon-GunMay 23, 2012 6:59 AM
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| I just realized that ufotable made a mistake putting Kiritsugu's breaking in the Tohsaka household before the kidnapping. He's suppose to go on a wild goose chase trying to figure out who kidnapped Iri, as seen in the preview when he said "Where's Irisviel?". He is to lose valuable time breaking in the bounded fields of By going in the Tohsaka mansion now, he already saw the tea set served in the table, which means Tokiomi was receiving someone. And the fact that he spilled blood while Gil is beside him, Kerry can put two and two together which should be for later. Really too early for it. Let's just make out how they'll do next episode. But still... |
| |
belatkuro said: I just realized that ufotable made a mistake putting Kiritsugu's breaking in the Tohsaka household before the kidnapping. He's suppose to go on a wild goose chase trying to figure out who kidnapped Iri, as seen in the preview when he said "Where's Irisviel?". He is to lose valuable time breaking in the bounded fields of By going in the Tohsaka mansion now, he already saw the tea set served in the table, which means Tokiomi was receiving someone. And the fact that he spilled blood while Gil is beside him, Kerry can put two and two together which should be for later. Really too early for it. Let's just make out how they'll do next episode. But still... I dont think of it as a mistake.I think that ufotable decided to change some things like kiritsugu going for Tohsaka instead of Waver.It's true that Kirei would be the first suspect for Tokiomi's death but not about the kidnapping.We have 5 more eps. lets see: of course that's how I believe that they will do it according to the Ln but they changed it many times(which wasnt that bad). And now that I look at it, it seems too much for 5 eps unless the make ep 25 1 hour long like the 1st one. |
ssjokgMay 23, 2012 8:18 AM
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