Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Episode 51 Discussion

noteDhero said:
Yet another boring episode with next to nothing happening.
Scratch that. May Chang fucks shit up like we all knew she was going to (but at least she was animated well).
Also, Olivier was totally useless against Sloth.

ArnoldK said:


I'm just wondering, what exactly constitutes "something happening" for you? The plot is in total constant motion, and the shit is seriously starting to hit the fan these last two episodes.

Pride getting freed, the unleashing of the Homunculus army, and the revolution in Central isn't enough?

Divine_Judgement said:
OP/ED really sucked.

also, ALEX LOUIS ARMSTRONG.

ArnoldK said:


I'm just wondering, what exactly constitutes "something happening" for you? The plot is in total constant motion, and the shit is seriously starting to hit the fan these last two episodes.

Pride getting freed, the unleashing of the Homunculus army, and the revolution in Central isn't enough?

Relenus said:

Darklight0303 said:
^hahahaha how cruel of you XD

noteDhero said:


So I said nothing happened, said scratch that, and listed three things that happened aside from the immortal soldiers. What's so hard to understand? My point is that nothing really progressed in this episode. The army got turned on last episode. May Chang was clearly going to unwittingly release Envy the second she made the decision to turn around, and we knew that Pride was sending a message.

What happened in this episode was not the least bit exciting for me. Maybe it its the animation, because at least when May Chang was fighting the homoncubots, I was thinking "oh wow that's cool." But at every other point in the episode everything was so repetitive and dragged out. I didn't need to see Al dragging whats his name for so long having the same tired conversation that he and Ed have had with other characters too often. I don't want to see someone as smart as Olivier hide behind a pillar and think that's a good idea.

So yes, there was some progression in this episode, but most of it felt like it was at the expense of the intelligence of some of the main players who should know better (Olivier, Alphonse, May Chang), while forcibly stalling the people who were going somewhere (Mustang, Ed & Scar), and not showing people who I assume were doing something (Briggs soldiers, Hoenheim)j. Yeah, the cast is big, but once again, I feel like I'm watching an episode building towards something as opposed to really doing or saying anything. That, combined with the empty op and ed (which too many people are focusing on, but then they always have for FMA:B) just makes me increasingly more frustrated with the pacing, decisions to show certain things, and the validity in the existence of certain characters.

noteDhero said:
I remember about 20 episodes ago when Alphonse realized how powerless he was and he seemed really resolved to being useful. What happened? He hasn't done anything really. He sat there and let Pride tap morse code thinking "Oh, he's just a kid," when he's a freakin' Homonculus. Then he's easily swayed into doing one of the few things he said he wouldn't because he was so easily backed into a corner. I'm disgusted with how weak he is as a character. It's depressing. He had so much potential, but he's just sat in this series like a bump on a log, letting everyone progress as he stays stagnant. What's the point of his character beside being some point of motivation for Ed? Really? He's useless. At this point, he was more interesting in the first series, because they at least gave him a role 50 episodes in.

noteDhero said:
@Aeterna
You're right. I just feel like had they mixed things up a little (like showing Olivier with Mustang in one episode, and Ed and Al in another) it wouldn't all feel so one-note like it has been. Last week was, "look at the people who are coming back while Mustang and Ed pwn everyone. This week was, "look at the other side gain ground while Al, May Chang, and Olivier are backed into corners." In neither episodes did I feel the depth or massiveness of the struggle. Maybe if I saw Olivier pressured by Sloth while Mustang pressed the army forward it would have felt better. That's just a thought though.

@robbydesu
I didn't call Alphonse cowardly...just weak. And a little stupid. I think if we're comparing Al to Winry, Ling, or any other character on his tier, his character development doesn't match up. This episode required some kind of resolve, but I wonder what he'll be saying after the necessity for him to use the Philosopher's Stone is over.

Let's think here (because maybe I'm missing something) after the battle that got Mustang hurt, Al resolved himself to being more useful. Shortly after he was able to remember the Truth, and could transmute without a circle. I thought this was the start of something grand. What has happened since then? He hears the whole story from Hoenheim, accepts it, and then gets on a train. A contrived timer of him loosing attachment to his armor is introduced so that Pride could easily manipulate him and fight Ed. Then because he was so easily manipulated he comes up with this plan to stick himself in the darkness with Pride, thinking that's enough...when he could have fought to at least subdue him (or get his helmet back). The rationality and forethought I thought Al had only applies to canceling out Ed's irrationality. Al is about as stupid as Ed is on his own, and that makes him quite useless when they have been separated for so long.

Julio-sama said:
Hmm... you say that Al should have known that Pride was sending a morse code, but how was he supposed to know that?

dxthegreat said:


No kid would be entertained by hitting a metal helmet with a stick for the whole night.

suigetsu00 said:


i disagree lol i know some little kids and they'd be happy doing that for awhile

Aeterna said:

It might have been less obvious in the manga, but in the anime, the fact that:

1) Pride is a homunculus and cannot be trusted,
2) Pride is doing it with a serious face and with zero enthusiasm, in contrast to a playing child, and
3) There was a purposeful "rhythm" to it -- as in, there were short, quick taps as well as longer taps and pauses, which is what Morse code basically is (this point is where it might be more obvious in the anime...however, I have not read the manga so I can't say)

Fai said:

No thats the house they burned down. Im pretty sure as we had the exact same house burning in OP 1 or 2 And Winry's/Pinako's house is smaller.

ArnoldK said:


Also, in the manga, Pride just seemed a little more convincing as a kid, at least to Al- there were a couple of moments where Al had to catch himself and remember that Selim is a Homunculus. This was definitely played a little more strongly in the manga.

As for your second point, you have to realize that they are in complete pitch black darkness and thus Al would not be able to see his face and thus read it one way or another...

Haylias said:
This anime wil jump to the top of the list like Gintama did if it ends well.

Mark my words.

noteDhero said:
@robbydesu
I didn't call Alphonse cowardly...just weak. And a little stupid. I think if we're comparing Al to Winry, Ling, or any other character on his tier, his character development doesn't match up. This episode required some kind of resolve, but I wonder what he'll be saying after the necessity for him to use the Philosopher's Stone is over.

Let's think here (because maybe I'm missing something) after the battle that got Mustang hurt, Al resolved himself to being more useful. Shortly after he was able to remember the Truth, and could transmute without a circle. I thought this was the start of something grand. What has happened since then? He hears the whole story from Hoenheim, accepts it, and then gets on a train. A contrived timer of him loosing attachment to his armor is introduced so that Pride could easily manipulate him and fight Ed. Then because he was so easily manipulated he comes up with this plan to stick himself in the darkness with Pride, thinking that's enough...when he could have fought to at least subdue him (or get his helmet back). The rationality and forethought I thought Al had only applies to canceling out Ed's irrationality. Al is about as stupid as Ed is on his own, and that makes him quite useless when they have been separated for so long.

GlacialFroszeN said:
Oh Oh and I got a question here!!
Why didn't Al make a transmutation for his legs by using the metal from the rest of his armour?
He tried to drag Heinkel along the way without having legs. Wouldn't it be easier if he just transmute ones up and let the armour's surface get a bit thinner for an exchange? Why hesitate?
And did he just end up using some part ( or whole ) of the philosopher's stone for them. Or did he do just like what I suggested?

Hmmm... I think I need to rewatch it .

robbydesu said:

I think the reason is just as how you said, his armour will be thinner - which I think is a problem because it won't support the weight of the rest of his armour. The whole point of a philosopher stone is that it defies the law of equivalent exchange. So he most likely created his legs from nothing.

robbydesu said:
Hmm I guess I really don't understand what your definition of "weak" is...

I definitely agree that in comparison to other characters, Al's character development is minimal. But I don't quite understand your logic with the connection between Pride's manipulation of Al and Al's plan to be trapped in that dark secluded place with Pride. I thought it was clear to the viewers, and to some of the characters in the series that Ed and Al have always wanted to "fight" and solve their problems without hurting or killing anyone in the process. He didn't want anyone to get hurt, therefore he decided on a plan that will achieve that wish. This defines what he might think is considered as "helping others". In his perspective, as long as he can prevent someone from dying or getting hurt - then he is considered to be "useful". He's rash and naive (it's interesting, because Mustang displayed this sort mindset during the coup d'etat) but I don't think it's fair to say that he's stupid because it's not like he didn't put any thought behind his actions and it's not like there isn't any valid logic behind it either. And wait wait wait...I'm getting lost here, Ed is irrational? I need some clarification here XD

noteDhero said:


My definition of a weak character is someone who is constantly succumbing to plot devices with little to no hesitation. Hoehenheim said it best: "You just accept all of it don't you?" In comparison to Ed, who likes to delude himself into thinking certain things, Al is easily able to accept what's going on around him. However, the downside is that (for me) it often feels like he is carried where the plot takes him, as opposed to being active and fighting himself. Maybe that's because of the circumstances with his body, but the only time he's actually doing something is because he doesn't need to eat, or he can't feel cold. And he's largely found doing menial work compared to (ability-wise) weaker characters. He had the same realization that Winry did not too long ago. But unlike Al, I felt like Winry wasn't going to allow herself to fall into the same mindset and role and make the same mistakes like she has been. That's not the case with Al, even though he ''leveled up." Al always feels like he has to atone for something, and lets those lame ideas get in the way of him thinking in such a way that he wouldn't have to atone. Pride stole his body to fight Ed. To atone for that he felt like he had to lock himself up with Pride. He didn't think, "Pride needs to be destroyed." Why? It's that kind of character weakness that I talk about. It's absurd to think that he could just sit in there for a day and everything would be fine.

And wrong word. I meant to use 'rash' instead of irrational as a descriptor of Ed.

smokes said:
@Julio-sama Al is himself a child) so probably didnt know about morse code or whatever..

anyway the highlight of this episode was how BADASS was Al at the end ^_________^

robbydesu said:

Well once you explain it that way, it's really easy to understand and agree with you on that. For me I'm satisfied because I know I will mostly believe that it's just the type of personality that was set for him. I mean not every character has to have an equal amount of development right? XD weak argument, I know I know hahaha. I guess when it comes down to it, we just see it a bit differently. The atonement makes sense, I'm surprised that I didn't see it that way. However In terms of Heinkel, I still stick with my original notion about him following through with his "no killing/no hurting" mindset. It's naive, but in ways I think it takes a certain strength to continue to act this way; especially since it's the most difficult way to fight imo. I believe Olivier and Miles were talking about this way back when they first met the brothers. It's also hard to be critical of some of their actions because Mustang also did it too (he's one of my fav XD). I dunno~ I hope your opinion of Al will change someday :P

Darn, this all sound so lame now..it's 3:02 am. >_> cut me some slack please.

Queen_Stars said:
Bradley may be may favourite homunculous, yet I have to say, I'd totally adopt Sloth.
He's so adorable.

ArnoldK said:


I hope you meant Pride there, and not the giant, musclebound, tunnel digging freak...

Mayora-Hime said:


Hahahaha I hope u mean pride too, unless u have unique taste XD