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Hulio said: OK.I've watched the previous season, read the Visual Novels and even own the Manga. Asking "How much you know" I'd prefer to say everything, but there might be something I don't know/remember so let's just settle with "a lot". Hinamizawa Syndrome is a syndrome unique to Hinamizawa and its vicinity. It is caused by some kind of local parasite. It could be airborne or waterborne, I don't really know the details. The fact is, somehow all Hinamizawa resident contract it. The parasite attack mainly the brain and its chemicals, causing symptoms including but not limited to increased paranoia, inability to control impulses, violent tendency, itchiness in the neck region, visual and auditory hallucination, delusions about the various local beliefs, religion and culture. The disease is classified based on its severity from L0/L1-L5. The disease is able to progress faster if the patient falls under high stress or mental pressure. When someone fall to L5, they have little hope and have a high chance of dying, with a possibility of killing one or two other people. Satoshi, Satoko's brother, was in L5 condition but thanks to Irie's alertness and in-depth knowledge of HS, he is saved, but still not cured completely. He is currently under sedatives and life support until the cure is completed. Oyashiro-sama's curse is the local belief of Hinamizawa residents. It revolves around a series of incident that happened from 1979-1982 on the night of Watanagashi Festival. In the visual novel and the 1st and 2nd season of the anime, the mystery is solved. The curse is actually a series of accidents, coincidences and murders caused, directle or indirectly, by the Hinamizawa Syndrome. Irie, Takano, and Tomitake are some of the many members of the confidential Hinamizawa research project, under a secret organisation called Tokyo. Takano is the head researcher, while Irie is the member and Tomitake is the auditor from Tokyo. To conduct the research in Hinamizawa secretly, they built the Irie clinic as cover. Irie is a good doctor and focuses on the cure of HS, producing the C-103 drug to cure HS, while Takano only pursues power and produced a lethal H-170 drug which is able to instantly cause a HS patient progress to L5, which has the potential of becoming a bioweapon. Satoko was a patient and research subject of HS, helping Irie with his C-103 project, and eventually declared cured by Irie. Now back on topic, Satoko uses her new ability to steal the lethal drug from Takano, the H-170, and use it on people close to Rika, to cause chaos and break Rika's resolve. Satoko's true goal is actually to keep Rika stay in Hinamizawa and prevent her from going to St. Lucia. Mion is a strong girl. In the previous arcs before the -damashi arcs, Mion never falls to L5 despite being under many mental pressures, including her jealousy from seeing Shion with Keiichi. Now that she is injected with the drug, she falls to L5 instantly. |
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flashholter said: Hulio said: OK.I've watched the previous season, read the Visual Novels and even own the Manga. Asking "How much you know" I'd prefer to say everything, but there might be something I don't know/remember so let's just settle with "a lot". Hinamizawa Syndrome is a syndrome unique to Hinamizawa and its vicinity. It is caused by some kind of local parasite. It could be airborne or waterborne, I don't really know the details. The fact is, somehow all Hinamizawa resident contract it. The parasite attack mainly the brain and its chemicals, causing symptoms including but not limited to increased paranoia, inability to control impulses, violent tendency, itchiness in the neck region, visual and auditory hallucination, delusions about the various local beliefs, religion and culture. The disease is classified based on its severity from L0/L1-L5. The disease is able to progress faster if the patient falls under high stress or mental pressure. When someone fall to L5, they have little hope and have a high chance of dying, with a possibility of killing one or two other people. Satoshi, Satoko's brother, was in L5 condition but thanks to Irie's alertness and in-depth knowledge of HS, he is saved, but still not cured completely. He is currently under sedatives and life support until the cure is completed. Oyashiro-sama's curse is the local belief of Hinamizawa residents. It revolves around a series of incident that happened from 1979-1982 on the night of Watanagashi Festival. In the visual novel and the 1st and 2nd season of the anime, the mystery is solved. The curse is actually a series of accidents, coincidences and murders caused, directle or indirectly, by the Hinamizawa Syndrome. Irie, Takano, and Tomitake are some of the many members of the confidential Hinamizawa research project, under a secret organisation called Tokyo. Takano is the head researcher, while Irie is the member and Tomitake is the auditor from Tokyo. To conduct the research in Hinamizawa secretly, they built the Irie clinic as cover. Irie is a good doctor and focuses on the cure of HS, producing the C-103 drug to cure HS, while Takano only pursues power and produced a lethal H-170 drug which is able to instantly cause a HS patient progress to L5, which has the potential of becoming a bioweapon. Satoko was a patient and research subject of HS, helping Irie with his C-103 project, and eventually declared cured by Irie. Now back on topic, Satoko uses her new ability to steal the lethal drug from Takano, the H-170, and use it on people close to Rika, to cause chaos and break Rika's resolve. Satoko's true goal is actually to keep Rika stay in Hinamizawa and prevent her from going to St. Lucia. Mion is a strong girl. In the previous arcs before the -damashi arcs, Mion never falls to L5 despite being under many mental pressures, including her jealousy from seeing Shion with Keiichi. Now that she is injected with the drug, she falls to L5 instantly. All of that are info available even in the OG adaptations, maybe except the code numbers of all the vaccines/drugs. The problem is that Gou/Sotsou ignore most of what you just said, if not all of them. |
ssjokg said: The drug stolen by Satoko quite possibly the H-170, not H173. H-173 is the upgraded version of H-170 and, like yous said, able to kill HS patient instantly. Tomitake is injected with H-173 and died instantly.flashholter said: How much do you know about Hinamizawa Syndrome, Oyashiro-sama's curse, the medicine that Satoko injected to her friends? Lets see Those inflicted with HS dont have moments of clarity during their rampage. They may appear sane but they are not. Mion in Sotsu goes back and forth. When Keichi killed Rena and Mion in Onikakushi, it was something he cried for but knew that he had to do or else he would die. When Rena believed every bullshit in Takano's notebook she didnt stop and think that "maybe everything here is bs". When Shion went on a rampage everything was calculated with no accidental deaths that she regretted. Oyashiro-sama curse doesnt exist, at least no how Takano and the 3 families(somewhat reluctantly) are trying to make use of it. The H-173 Satoko took should inflict terminal L5 fast to the point were the victim kills themselves, you know, the final stages. There is no need for a cause for their paranoia and the effects do not take days to manifest. Why is everyone so fine before the end of each arc? How many of those are true in SotsuGou? Maybe the curse unless it is an inconsequential red herring. And that's not even mentioning the plot armor of Satoko as the villain. |
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flashholter said: The labels on them say clearly H-173.ssjokg said: The drug stolen by Satoko quite possibly the H-170, not H173. H-173 is the upgraded version of H-170 and, like yous said, able to kill HS patient instantly. Tomitake is injected with H-173 and died instantly.Lets see Those inflicted with HS dont have moments of clarity during their rampage. They may appear sane but they are not. Mion in Sotsu goes back and forth. When Keichi killed Rena and Mion in Onikakushi, it was something he cried for but knew that he had to do or else he would die. When Rena believed every bullshit in Takano's notebook she didnt stop and think that "maybe everything here is bs". When Shion went on a rampage everything was calculated with no accidental deaths that she regretted. Oyashiro-sama curse doesnt exist, at least no how Takano and the 3 families(somewhat reluctantly) are trying to make use of it. The H-173 Satoko took should inflict terminal L5 fast to the point were the victim kills themselves, you know, the final stages. There is no need for a cause for their paranoia and the effects do not take days to manifest. Why is everyone so fine before the end of each arc? How many of those are true in SotsuGou? Maybe the curse unless it is an inconsequential red herring. And that's not even mentioning the plot armor of Satoko as the villain. Unless of course in typical Sotsougou fashion we get a dumb plot twist that Takano mislabeled them. Or that Satoko managed to create her own version. Anything is possible here. |
Si1verR0se said: That requires an amount of thinking that Satoko isnt capable of because thinking isnt fun.Wouldn't it be more logical to cause shit to happen after Rika leaves village to go to St. Lucia? |
ssjokg said: Is that so? Hmm... Maybe I overlooked it.The labels on them say clearly H-173. Unless of course in typical Sotsougou fashion we get a dumb plot twist that Takano mislabeled them. Or that Satoko managed to create her own version. Anything is possible here. If it is true, then that's odd. H-173 shouldn't take that long to kill the patient. Si1verR0se said: That's what crazy about Satoko. Killing many of her friends in many worlds just to get Rika back.Yeah, about that. How does what Satoko's doing should prevent Rika from leaving Hinamizawa and even more, break her? I can't see why she should give up after events that she have seen for more than 100 years already, and even more how she should get the idea of "Leaving village is bad"? I mean, Rika doesn't remeber who killed her(except after Tataridamashi, but Satoko may not know it). Wouldn't it be more logical to cause shit to happen after Rika leaves village to go to St. Lucia? |
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ssjokg said: To be frank, this is the funniest moment of Higurashi's L5 patient experience. I know she is a patient and shouldn't make fun of her, but her cute nature plus Takano's fantasy story is so unbearably adorable. I really want to hug her now.When Rena believed every bullshit in Takano's notebook she didnt stop and think that "maybe everything here is bs". |
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| Didn't I just say that I was well accustomed to the story, why you're telling me all the basic stuff? ._. I thought we were gonna talk about the disease itself.. but anyway flashholter said: I guess the inability to control impulses is debatable. It's hard to tell where the line between not being able to control one's impulses and simply just doing things goes.The parasite attack mainly the brain and its chemicals, causing symptoms including but not limited to inability to control impulses, itchiness in the neck region, delusions about the various local beliefs, religion and culture. The itchiness in "neck area" is slightly over simplifying it. Haven't read the PS only arcs, but unless I remember wrong, only K1 & H-173 victims had major itchiness around their throats, and even then K1's case could be due to the knowledge of Tomitake's demise. Formication itself is a symptom, for example, Rena, while having minor itchiness on the neck region, also itched on her wrists and thighs. Delusions for the religion culture and beliefs is quite the wrong word to use. If only believing at something which isn't true or you can't prove by yourself is a delusion, then believing in God, Science and Santa Claus must be delusions aswell. When someone fall to L5, they have little hope and have a high chance of dying, with a possibility of killing one or two other people. I don't exactly remember what happened to the people suffering from HS during the WWII. But aside of them, on our current timeline, none of those who have gone to L5 have killed anyone they didn't WANT to kill. Even if briefly.Yes the L5 patients have a "possibility to kill one or two other people" but how much of that is due to the HS itself, and how much due to the situation they are in. The disease isn't one that turns people into crazy killing machines. It merely boosts up their sense of right and helps them carry out that act. There's a reason Satoshi didn't kill anyone after he had whacked the one which he saw as worthy. while Irie is the member[...] Irie is a good doctor and focuses on the cure of HS Irie isn't just a "member", he's the official head of the whole facility. Hence the name, Irie Clinic.Also I'm not sure what makes Irie good enough to emphasize he's a good doctor. Sure he's a genius at his field, but he also was quite infamous for it. On the HS research he even dissected a live patient. Sure he may have played the biggest part on making the cure, but that also was job. while Takano only pursues power and produced a lethal H-170 drug which is able to instantly cause a HS patient progress to L5, which has the potential of becoming a bioweapon. Saying that Takano was only pursuing power is naive and demonizing. The sole reason that Takano alongside assigned Irie got into Hinamizawa WAS to develop that bioweapon, they didn't go there to cure the disease. And Takano had to do that in order to deitify her grandfather & his research. I doubt Irie didn't have anything to do with developing H-173, but yes it was mainly Takano's Job.Now back on topic, Satoko uses her new ability to steal the lethal drug from Takano, the H-170, and use it on people close to Rika, to cause chaos and break Rika's resolve. Satoko's true goal is actually to keep Rika stay in Hinamizawa and prevent her from going to St. Lucia. And now that we get on GOU, all I can say is that this is just stupid writing.Mion is a strong girl. In the previous arcs before the -damashi arcs, Mion never falls to L5 despite being under many mental pressures, including her jealousy from seeing Shion with Keiichi. Now that she is injected with the drug, she falls to L5 instantly. As for the stupid writing, since when "instantly falling to L5" was being completely chill for several days?Tomitake fell to L5 instantly, and died pretty instantly too. That's what L5 is instantly like. And yes, he's a Strong boi too. |
         Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| I appreciate for the pretty detailed answer, now we're talking. You said about forgetting things, but didn't detail it, so I wrote the essential parts. At least I got into the details about the disease. Hulio said: flashholter said: I guess the inability to control impulses is debatable. It's hard to tell where the line between not being able to control one's impulses and simply just doing things goes.The parasite attack mainly the brain and its chemicals, causing symptoms including but not limited to inability to control impulses, itchiness in the neck region, delusions about the various local beliefs, religion and culture. The itchiness in "neck area" is slightly over simplifying it. Haven't read the PS only arcs, but unless I remember wrong, only K1 & H-173 victims had major itchiness around their throats, and even then K1's case could be due to the knowledge of Tomitake's demise. Formication itself is a symptom, for example, Rena, while having minor itchiness on the neck region, also itched on her wrists and thighs. Delusions for the religion culture and beliefs is quite the wrong word to use. If only believing at something which isn't true or you can't prove by yourself is a delusion, then believing in God, Science and Santa Claus must be delusions aswell. I believe agitation and violence tendency is considered inability to control impulses. Paranoia + inability to control impulse = targeted violence. Is murder considered sense of right? Everyone in Hinamizawa that murders are either Hinamizawa Syndrome patients or naturally evil characters. In the visual novel it is said that there are many variations of delusions BASED on the patient's belief, social and cultural background. Most known patients have delusions about Oyashiro-sama or the three families being behind the mysterious incidents. That's what I'm trying to say. Sorry for the bad ambiguous phrasing. Why would I talk about random delusions or belief outside HS? Though that's not NOT within the realm of possibility. Heck, if you throw a bunch of Jesus believers into Hinamizawa and inject them with H-170, they'd probably kill you in the name of Jesus. Yes, Tomitake experienced neck itchiness from the H-173, but we cannot just rule out the possibility that it could be a classic symptoms. Rena scratched her skin probably because she believed her to be dirty, but the idea about maggots? Keiichi scratched his neck probably based on the information about Tomitake scratched his neck. But what about Tomitake himself? He scratched his neck probably because H-173, or probably because of a delusion about maggots, just like Rena's, or simply because it's one of the classic symptoms of severe patient. Takano injected Tomitake with the intention to kill him. How would she want him to kill himself if not from clawing his own neck? She uses the neck scratching/clawing symptom to create a weapon. Keiichi felt that he was being followed because he heard Hanyuu's footsteps, also partially because of the belief about Oyashiro-sama. Rena also experienced being watched by Oyashiro-sama because of the belief she learned in Hinamizawa when she was still little. Satoshi experienced some part of Keiichi's symptoms and some part of Rena's symptoms because he was being followed by Hanyuu and he was also under the influence of Rena's belief. Satoko experienced delusion about her uncle. After Keiichi killer Teppei, Satoko said that her uncle still managed to return home and torture her. Every patient have unique symptoms and experience. Also one thing I forgot to mention is that the disease stage progress when someone left Hinamizawa, creating the hypothesis of the existence of the queen carrier. Rena is the example of that, when she and her parents moved to Ibaraki, away from Hinamizawa. Hulio said: When someone fall to L5, they have little hope and have a high chance of dying, with a possibility of killing one or two other people. I don't exactly remember what happened to the people suffering from HS during the WWII. But aside of them, on our current timeline, none of those who have gone to L5 have killed anyone they didn't WANT to kill. Even if briefly.Yes the L5 patients have a "possibility to kill one or two other people" but how much of that is due to the HS itself, and how much due to the situation they are in. The disease isn't one that turns people into crazy killing machines. It merely boosts up their sense of right and helps them carry out that act. There's a reason Satoshi didn't kill anyone after he had whacked the one which he saw as worthy. I don't really good at the WW history part, but what I catch from it is that the war is caused by some misunderstanding about "who shot first?" thing. The one who shot first was possibly a soldier from Hinamizawa that went out of control and shot at the other party. This is the fundamental reason why Takano's grandfather started the research, to prove that a parasite can create/change history. Some patients DID kill someone they didn't want to kill. The dam construction worker didn't want to kill the construction foreman. They were only arguing about smoking in the construction office, if I remember correctly, but they did kill. And I don't think Satoko wanted to kill her parents either. Did Keiichi look like he wanted to kill Rena and Mion? Hulio said: while Irie is the member[...] Irie is a good doctor and focuses on the cure of HS Irie isn't just a "member", he's the official head of the whole facility. Hence the name, Irie Clinic.Also I'm not sure what makes Irie good enough to emphasize he's a good doctor. Sure he's a genius at his field, but he also was quite infamous for it. On the HS research he even dissected a live patient. Sure he may have played the biggest part on making the cure, but that also was job. while Takano only pursues power and produced a lethal H-170 drug which is able to instantly cause a HS patient progress to L5, which has the potential of becoming a bioweapon. Saying that Takano was only pursuing power is naive and demonizing. The sole reason that Takano alongside assigned Irie got into Hinamizawa WAS to develop that bioweapon, they didn't go there to cure the disease. And Takano had to do that in order to deitify her grandfather & his research. I doubt Irie didn't have anything to do with developing H-173, but yes it was mainly Takano's Job.Takano wanting to deitify her grandfather and his research is considered power pursuit. If I remember correctly, she said "we", not "my father and his research" when she said about becoming a god, so she included herself into that ambition and thus seeking power for herself too. She wanted to prove that her grandfather research is not bullshit, and make the people who ever mocked them to bow to the result of her successful research. What is it, if it isn't power she pursue? It's not power to rule a nation or command a huge army, since Takano is not a politician or a soldier. She wants to achieve power using her ability, through research. Remember when the Hinamizawa project is about to be aborted, she uses her last chance to prove that her research has power, to kill many people, to disrupt the balance in the government and Tokyo power hierarchy, to show that her research has power. Also Irie is assigned to the research NOT to create bioweapon, it's not in his job description. He wouldn't want to join if he knew he was about to create a weapon. Remember his motive on why he became a brain surgeon. He is interested because it is a brain parasite. He was hired under the pretext of studying the parasite in general. When Irie and Takano successfully created the prototype of the cure and the weapon respectively, he questioned Takano, "why would you create something like that?" Irie being the clinic director is only formality. I remember something about Takano thinking of giving the position of director to Irie to make him happy, or to make him loyal, or something. Irie developed the cure by himself, just like Takano developed the weapon by herself. In short, Irie becoming the clinic director neither has anything to do with weapon development, nor hinders her agenda. Irie clinic is built to hide the Hinamizawa Syndrome research from the people. Hinamizawa Syndrome research is created to hide the bioweapon project. Yes, he sacrificed many people in his research, but he feel remorse about it and wanted to make up from his sins by successfully creating the cure. The project did kidnap many live subjects, but they're all Takano's idea. Irie did conduct inhumane brain surgery before Hinamizawa, but that's because the law and ethics were still not established at the time. Compared to Takano, he is a saint. Hulio said: Now back on topic, Satoko uses her new ability to steal the lethal drug from Takano, the H-170, and use it on people close to Rika, to cause chaos and break Rika's resolve. Satoko's true goal is actually to keep Rika stay in Hinamizawa and prevent her from going to St. Lucia. And now that we get on GOU, all I can say is that this is just stupid writing.Yes. This one, I also think that the writing is a bit stupid, and forced. I hate it when they make Satoko the villain. Hulio said: As for the stupid writing, since when "instantly falling to L5" was being completely chill for several days? Tomitake fell to L5 instantly, and died pretty instantly too. That's what L5 is instantly like. And yes, he's a Strong boi too. We're talking about a mental disease here, not physical disease. Tomitake might have big biceps and ripped abs, but that doesn't mean his mental is strong. Now that I think about it, Mion is strong too. Remember when she beat the shit out of Okonogi in the forest. About her being chill, I previously thought that the drug Satoko uses in H-170, not H-173, but it turned out to be H-173, which should kill the patient instantly. The fact that Mion and the other injection victims survived for a couple of days is odd too. Maybe Satoko's medical skill at handling needles is too low, thus rendering the drug ineffective? Also mixing drug meant for injection into food/drink lowers its effectiveness. Damn. Sorry if it's too long for an answer. |
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flashholter said: Violent tendency has nothing to do with impulse control nor does Paranoia + the loss of impulse control equal to targeted violence.I believe agitation and violence tendency is considered inability to control impulses. Paranoia + inability to control impulse = targeted violence. What HS does, is merely inducing paranoia and promoting aggressive behaviour. Onikakushi K1's murder was purely self-defense in his eyes. Shion was highly calculating throughout her endeavours. Rena believed Takano and chose the theory that resembled her own experience. They all were very much in control on what they were doing. How would you react if your new friends? pinned you down and wanted to inject you with a syringe? Healthy and fully sane people probably wouldn't outright kill them, but I believe most of the humans would get violent in order to get away. Boost that feeling up with the HS and the rest is history. Is murder considered sense of right? Everyone in Hinamizawa that murders are either Hinamizawa Syndrome patients or naturally evil characters. What I mean by right, is that they themselves believe it is the right thing to do. Either that it is the only or the best course of action.Them being wrong about certain truths doesn't change the fact that they were right in their own mind. In the visual novel it is said that there are many variations of delusions BASED on the patient's belief, social and cultural background. Most known patients have delusions about Oyashiro-sama or the three families being behind the mysterious incidents. That's what I'm trying to say. Sorry for the bad ambiguous phrasing. It has nothing to do with "Belief, social and cultural background", it is vastly more broader concept, and it has to do with Paranoia.It was explained by Rika, even in the Anime, I don't remember the exact words but the concept was as follows (I think it was Minagoroshi): There was a black spot in the corner of the wall in the classroom, and Rika asked Keiichi what does he see in it. Then she said, "Satoko is afraid of Spiders so she sees Spiders". THAT is Hinamizawa Syndrome. Or the big mind part of it. Putting the blame on simply terms like Religion or Culture is wrong way to put it, everything that they believe, doubt and are afraid of, are the sources of the delusions and hallucinations. Keiichi couldn't believe his friends, because he already doubted them. Shion started by purging the Sonozaki family heads because she believed Sonozaki's were behind the curse. Rena believed the theory of maggots because she had thought she was already infested by the maggots. Heck, if you throw a bunch of Jesus believers into Hinamizawa and inject them with H-170, they'd probably kill you in the name of Jesus. Yes, they probably would.Takano injected Tomitake with the intention to kill him. How would she want him to kill himself if not from clawing his own neck? She uses the neck scratching/clawing symptom to create a weapon. At this point, it's possible that H-173 is probably something different from a naturally built up HS. The drug might have something that also causes physical itchiness in the lymph nodes. By chance, was Tomitake injected on his neck too? Cause that would definitely explain it. Of course this just conjecture, but H-173 victims always scratches their throats until they die, whereas natural HS is actually rare to do that.Also one thing I forgot to mention is that the disease stage progress when someone left Hinamizawa, creating the hypothesis of the existence of the queen carrier. Rena is the example of that, when she and her parents moved to Ibaraki, away from Hinamizawa. The Queen Carrier theory is mainly disproven already, I don't remember if it was 100% or not, but leaving the village was not a direct cause for the Syndrome.Rena suffered not because she left Hinamizawa, but because she was from Hinamizawa, meaning she was already infected. Then her family troubles lead for the syndrome surfacing. Some patients DID kill someone they didn't want to kill. The dam construction worker didn't want to kill the construction foreman. They were only arguing about smoking in the construction office, if I remember correctly, but they did kill. And I don't think Satoko wanted to kill her parents either. Did Keiichi look like he wanted to kill Rena and Mion? The construction worker wanted to cut the body in pieces, so I doubt he was much against the killing the first place. Maybe he wanted to smoke so much that he ended up killing the guy?Satoko.. Her situation I would rather call an accident and not premeditated murder, it's possible that she just wanted to give a push on her parents, bad luck that the fence just gave up. K1 definitely looked like he wanted to kill them on the spot, afterwards he didn't like the result, but it was kill or be killed situation for him. Most people would snap on similar situation, HS or not. Takano wanting to deitify her grandfather and his research is considered power pursuit. If I remember correctly, she said "we", not "my father and his research" when she said about becoming a god, so she included herself into that ambition and thus seeking power for herself too. Yes, she eventually included herself and wanted to become a god aswell, but that only came somewhat later.She wanted to prove that her grandfather research is not bullshit, and make the people who ever mocked them to bow to the result of her successful research. What is it, if it isn't power she pursue? Acknowledgement.To her, a God isn't something that has Power, a God is something that has undeniable existence. In order for her Grandfather's research to be acknowledged, it needed to be proven... well... she did everything she could. On top of the above, she wanted a revenge against those who mocked the research, not power. Remember when the Hinamizawa project is about to be aborted, she uses her last chance to prove that her research has power, to kill many people, to disrupt the balance in the government and Tokyo power hierarchy, to show that her research has power. Did she want to prove that HS was real with the GHD, or did she perform GHD as instructed by Nomura. Which would lead to leadership changes in Tokyo, and the new leaders would allow her to continue and complete her research?Honestly don't remember those dialogues word to word, but I have a feeling it was somewhat a mix of those things. Yes, he sacrificed many people in his research, but he feel remorse about it and wanted to make up from his sins by successfully creating the cure. The project did kidnap many live subjects, but they're all Takano's idea. Irie did conduct inhumane brain surgery before Hinamizawa, but that's because the law and ethics were still not established at the time. Compared to Takano, he is a saint. So Takano having an idea and Irie performing that idea makes Irie a better person cause he has remorse about that?Before the project started, Irie had performed a lot more "inhumane" things than Takano had. Before the project ended, Irie's kill count in Hinamizawa was 1 whereas Takano's (by her or her orders) was 2. And yes the GHD doesn't count cause it didn't happen... in the current fragment atleast. If we start counting all the other possible worlds, then Keiichi's, Rena's and Shion's sins starts rapidly rising aswell. We're talking about a mental disease here, not physical disease. Tomitake might have big biceps and ripped abs, but that doesn't mean his mental is strong. Well you said Mion was strong so I just said that Tommy was strong too.Are you trying to say he is mentally weak? Because yes, most of the secret special forces lieutenants assigned for biological mass-destruction weapon research sure are weak willed. Maybe Satoko's medical skill at handling needles is too low, thus rendering the drug ineffective? Also mixing drug meant for injection into food/drink lowers its effectiveness. I don't think the skill to handle needles has anything to do with the stuff that gets injected in your body.Mixing it in drink is purely speculative at this point, but even if she did, it doesn't work like that. H-173 isn't a "drug" as people usually understands drugs, it's a more like a pathogen, it either works, or it doesn't. It's not that it kinda works and really starts taking affect after days. However to be honest, I don't exactly know what H-173 is. I remember them calling it a pathogen, but I don't think it was ever explained in detail how it works. Damn. Sorry if it's too long for an answer. Damn. My answer might be even longer. |
Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
_Alysha_ said: It's not just this quote, I'm seeing a multitude of users being confused by Mion's actions. It's Hinamizawa Syndrome. Mion literally can't help it. Not to put you down but I don't understand how someone who is this far into the series doesn't understand that yet. Mion has an impulsivity to be wrong yet 'right' based on the delusion complex that comes with the paranoia aspect of Hinamizawa Syndrome. (I think a better argument would be why Rena did what she did. Was it out of actual action or was she subject to the syndrome? In the Novel it certainly points to post-crime.) Is Mion / everyone else scratching their necks out of impulsivity or are they actually thinking their neck itches? It's a little bit of both - it's a mix of confusion and clarity which translates to insanity. That's why she's making hyperbolic and paradoxical decisions. In fact, it happens to everyone who gets subjected to the Hinamizawa Syndrome. I highly recommend reading the Sound Novels to ani-onlys. It's a different beast altogether and you'll connect the dots much quicker than just watching the original and kai. Everyone living there has a predisposition to this and it only takes the slightest inclination of paranoia for it to rear its ugly head and destroy lives. If you want to understand it completely and in better context I would recommend reading the Sound Novels. I've just finished re-reading the sound novels and this Hinamizawa syndrome is not consistent, or not as well written to Hinamizawa syndrome in them. It was really so well done there, the characters falling into madness and things being justified from their POV was well established. Here, no, we really don't see Mion becoming paranoid very well, let alone far enough to kill a bunch of people. It's like "oh, Mion likes Keiichi and she's a little jealous of him and Shion no wait she's crazy so she kills to protect him even though she's not sure about anything no wait we want her to be likeable still so let's have her cry a lot" No. |
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| OK. Maybe inability to control impulses isn't actually true. Nonetheless, paranoia and aggressive behaviour would still lead to violence and eventually murder. The paranoia IS based on the patient's belief, social, cultural experience, or anything that occupied the patient's mind at that time, their backgrounds. Belief, social, or cultural is not to blame, but what the patients are delusional about is formed by those, their backgrounds. If you make an example of the spider thing, then let's add phobias into the background list. Why Rena had delusions about Oyashiro-sama? Because she believes in Oyashiro-sama. Why Keiichi had delusions about the people out there to kill him, because he just read about the dam incident and the other incidents from Ooishi, believing the Sonozakis and the residents are behind it all. Worse case, Rena read many bullshit story in Takano's scrapbook, thus making Rena delusional about those things. If you don't agree with this statement, why do you agree with the Jesus thing I said? Now that you mentioned it, the lymph nodes in the neck, that sounds right about the neck scratching/clawing properties. Yes, the theory about the queen carrier is apparently untrue. I wrote about it being a hypothesis doesn't mean I agree with it. In every world where the Emergency Manual 34 was not conducted, the thing about the whole Hinamizawa residents goes insane didn't happen at all. Though, the world of Higurashi revolves before the Emergency Manual 34, so the queen carrier hypothesis is still there. "Acknowledgment" Yes, I like the sound of that. That's probably the right word to go by. Takano wants to leave a mark in history. Though that doesn't make her any better person. OK. I see Irie is always a bad guy in your eyes. No problem. Good or bad is merely subjective opinion. This moral and ethics field is so hazy. Let's not talk about it further. Though you better not consider Keiichi, Mion, or Shion as sinful. They were under the influence of Hinamizawa Syndrome, remember? About the strong thing, ugh, I don't know what's the focus of our conversation about that anymore. My point is in the previous worlds (before -damashi arcs), Mion never falls to L5 despite the many stress she had. Also H-173 has a high possibility to turn anyone L5, regardless their mental health. Satoko's skill is only my speculation on why the drug did not kill Mion instantly. Don't take it seriously. Though, injecting drugs into human body is not something anyone can do. There are many types of injection sites: vein, artery, muscle tissue, fat tissue injection. If one injects into the wrong site, the drug won't work as intended. About the nature of the drug. It's unclear indeed what is the substance. Though the fact that injection drug would be less effective if ingested is true. Be it chemicals or pathogens, the digestive tract will eliminate the drug, or at least diminish it, either from digestive enzyme or the immune cells. Then again, this is only my speculation oh how the drug becoming less effective. Let's not linger on it further. |
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PinkShibaInu said: Agree.Conversation or even arguments around Gou/Sotsu just feels more and more like covering up for the writing and making excuses for R07 rather than having any actual fun. Same thing every week. People have argued Gou/Sotsu has felt like fanfiction but honestly fan theories (which most have now been proven dead wrong) were VASTLY more interesting than what everything has lead up to now. It's like R07 is taking the most obvious routes to make fools out of everyone for overthinking everything. Hence why in the end I'll always say just stop overthinking everything. It's not that deep, it's not that creative, there is no greater meanings. I WISH it were half as creative as everyone was making it out to be but it's all wishful thinking. We have various receptions of the anime and have our own way of enjoying it, even if its writing is not as good as we expected before. Actually, I think I read somewhere that the story writer is actually not 07th himself. He is just overseeing the project or something. I'm not defending anyone, not even 07th. He is just a human being like us, he is not perfect. I'm actually having fun with this anime and I can't wait to see the ending. Watching the answer arcs while already knowing who the culprit is is kinda boring. I just want to skip to the yellow box part. |
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| The confrontation between Mion and Satoko was epic. It reminded me of why I love this series. |
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HikarusukeV3 said: It's sad, though.The confrontation between Mion and Satoko was epic. It reminded me of why I love this series. |
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flashholter said: HikarusukeV3 said: It's sad, though.The confrontation between Mion and Satoko was epic. It reminded me of why I love this series. "Stupid" would be my word, Satoko want to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that Rika dies before her, but goes straight to the potential killer, who's also injected (and dangerous, since she's L5, and may have already killed Rika), and believe Mion when she says that she killed Rika, and kill herself What if she was just kept in her basement, like Keiichi? What if Mion was hallucinating about killing Rika? What if Rika was just somewhere else completely? Satoko would suicide to go to the next Kakera, but Rika would still be alive She didn't have to do that, when all she had to do, was to stay out of danger (at her home) until she have more informations (her body was probably found during the evening, or even the next day) She could even help with the search if she didn't want to stay put, but no, let's have a "epic" scene Satoko vs Mion (the scene made no sense btw, how did Sakoto even pull her gun when Mion was already about to shot, and at close range even? Is that magic like the candlestick in Gou?) |
Kuroimi said: Dont think too much about it."Stupid" would be my word, Satoko want to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that Rika dies before her, but goes straight to the potential killer, who's also injected (and dangerous, since she's L5, and may have already killed Rika), and believe Mion when she says that she killed Rika, and kill herself What if she was just kept in her basement, like Keiichi? What if Mion was hallucinating about killing Rika? What if Rika was just somewhere else completely? Satoko would suicide to go to the next Kakera, but Rika would still be alive She didn't have to do that, when all she had to do, was to stay out of danger (at her home) until she have more informations (her body was probably found during the evening, or even the next day) She could even help with the search if she didn't want to stay put, but no, let's have a "epic" scene Satoko vs Mion (the scene made no sense btw, how did Sakoto even pull her gun when Mion was already about to shot, and at close range even? Is that magic like the candlestick in Gou?) The rule about Satoko dying last to follow Rika has been broken EVERY.SINGLE.TIME she has suicide looped for stupid shit(card game) or her plans(gun, h173.) And magic cant be the answer for the gun scene since she was able to do that stupid shit way before she met Eua. |
flashholter said: I wouldn't say that as a rule, that Paranoia + aggressiveness = murder. But looking at our stories here, that indeed is the outcome. (It wouldn't be much of a murder mystery without murder huh)Nonetheless, paranoia and aggressive behaviour would still lead to violence and eventually murder. The paranoia IS based on the patient's belief, social, cultural experience, or anything that occupied the patient's mind at that time, their backgrounds. Belief, social, or cultural is not to blame, but what the patients are delusional about is formed by those, their backgrounds. If you make an example of the spider thing, then let's add phobias into the background list. Why Rena had delusions about Oyashiro-sama? Because she believes in Oyashiro-sama. Why Keiichi had delusions about the people out there to kill him, because he just read about the dam incident and the other incidents from Ooishi, believing the Sonozakis and the residents are behind it all. Worse case, Rena read many bullshit story in Takano's scrapbook, thus making Rena delusional about those things. If you don't agree with this statement, why do you agree with the Jesus thing I said? I guess it might be somewhat semantics, but I don't like how it's put.To simplify things, let's just say that instead of the Belief, it is what they believe. Yes Belief, Social & Cultural experiences affects what you believe, but so does everything else aswell. Instead of single outing Religion, Culture and Family-ties, HS affects everything, and everything affects one's HS. Now that you mentioned it, the lymph nodes in the neck, that sounds right about the neck scratching/clawing properties. Pretty sure they mentioned this at some point, but instead of being purely about the HS, it could have been about H-173 aswell. So I'm trying to not use that as point."Acknowledgment" I don't think that makes her any worse either.Yes, I like the sound of that. That's probably the right word to go by. Takano wants to leave a mark in history. Though that doesn't make her any better person. She's just a person of strong will, and does what she believes in, even if that eventually resulted in murder. Not that much different from K1, 07 or Shion. Unless we think that the HS gives them a free pass to sin, but then again, some people are suggesting that towards the end, even Takano was starting to be under the effect of the Syndrome. Wouldn't that then grant her absolution aswell? OK. I see Irie is always a bad guy in your eyes. No problem. Good or bad is merely subjective opinion. This moral and ethics field is so hazy. Let's not talk about it further. No I'm not saying I think Irie is a bad guy, it's just I don't really think Takano was THAT bad either.Many people just see Takano as such a demon that they forget/don't care that the others, like Tommy & Irie aren't exactly sinless either. My point is in the previous worlds (before -damashi arcs), Mion never falls to L5 despite the many stress she had. Also H-173 has a high possibility to turn anyone L5, regardless their mental health. .. Yeah. I don't really what it was about either, but I just presented it as a counter-argument to something ._.Satoko's skill is only my speculation on why the drug did not kill Mion instantly. Don't take it seriously. No I won't, I know it's just bad writing.Though, injecting drugs into human body is not something anyone can do. There are many types of injection sites: vein, artery, muscle tissue, fat tissue injection. If one injects into the wrong site, the drug won't work as intended. That's for most part true. I don't think it's fully explained what H-173 is, so talking about this is purely speculative. But what comes to injecting stuff, the "good drugs" (aka medicine) have usually highly pinpointed effect so it matters where you put them. Whereas poisons and pathogens usually don't care that much, all they want is to get inside the human body and they'll work from there on.About the nature of the drug. It's unclear indeed what is the substance. Though the fact that injection drug would be less effective if ingested is true. Be it chemicals or pathogens, the digestive tract will eliminate the drug, or at least diminish it. Yeah that's pretty much true. However not only ingesting drug is less usually effective. It doesn't matter what it is, injecting anything to bloodstream is vastly more effective.flashholter said: Expected? o_oeven if its writing is not as good as we expected before. Actually, I think I read somewhere that the story writer is actually not 07th himself. He is just overseeing the project or something. I'm not defending anyone, not even 07th. He is just a human being like us, he is not perfect. Pretty much what I've been thinking since near beginning.Ryukishi likely just wrote bare bones of the plot and let the studio & mangaka do the rest for themselves. Hence same basic plot but multitude of clear - even if for most part minor - differences I'm actually having fun with this anime and I can't wait to see the ending. I myself aren't having that much fun with this, albeit I have been laughing for different reasons. But I am kinda waiting to see what kind of excuse they're gonna show at the end.Watching the answer arcs while already knowing who the culprit is is kinda boring. I just want to skip to the yellow box part. No kidding... |
Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
JackDSF123 said: ssjokg said: Dont think too much about it. The rule about Satoko dying last to follow Rika has been broken EVERY.SINGLE.TIME she has suicide looped for stupid shit(card game) or her plans(gun, h173.) And magic cant be the answer for the gun scene since she was able to do that stupid shit way before she met Eua. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to find excuses to the new anime, but apparently the loop power from Satoko works like this: If she dies AFTER Rika, Satoko will follow Rika to the next timeline/kakera. If she dies before Rika she wil just "reset" and will stay on the timeline/kakera. I know this because of the first time Satoko loops she repeats Matsuribayashi-hen and when she dies together with Rika in the chandelier trap both go to other kakera. But... I wouldn't have to defend the anime if it had good writing. There are so many errors and plotholes that it is indefensible. There is no reason for Satoko's caution is that is all that happens. They made it sound as if she will lose her trail. The worst that would happen now is that she would lose like a week of events. And anyway the multi looper plot device is full of holes. It only works if Higurashi worked on timelines, not fragments. What happens to the living Rika in the kakera Satoko gave up? They should continue so what happens if that Rika dies at any point ? |
JackDSF123 said: And I agree that the multi looper is full of holes. Higurashi was meant to end in Matsuribayashi-hen, it wasn't meant to have a sequel after that and we know from Umineko Ep 6 Dawn what happens when you try to modify something you've already planned. It was an analogy that R07 should have followed, because, well... he made that analogy himself hahaha. There's still a loose end in Matsuribayashi though: Satoshi. The only way Sotsu could could be called good is by making Satoshi recover. |
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flashholter said: JackDSF123 said: And I agree that the multi looper is full of holes. Higurashi was meant to end in Matsuribayashi-hen, it wasn't meant to have a sequel after that and we know from Umineko Ep 6 Dawn what happens when you try to modify something you've already planned. It was an analogy that R07 should have followed, because, well... he made that analogy himself hahaha. There's still a loose end in Matsuribayashi though: Satoshi. The only way Sotsu could could be called good is by making Satoshi recover. Even if Satoshi comes back, what can he do? Make Satoko feel guilty? Sotsu will stay mediocre even if he comes back, and he may as well not, since at least he won't be disrespected by the author like the others |
flashholter said: Eh the series pretends he doesnt exist.JackDSF123 said: And I agree that the multi looper is full of holes. Higurashi was meant to end in Matsuribayashi-hen, it wasn't meant to have a sequel after that and we know from Umineko Ep 6 Dawn what happens when you try to modify something you've already planned. It was an analogy that R07 should have followed, because, well... he made that analogy himself hahaha. There's still a loose end in Matsuribayashi though: Satoshi. The only way Sotsu could could be called good is by making Satoshi recover. Satoko even took him out of the equation by giving up on him for her goals. So... Tbh just let him rest. He doesnt deserve this. |
| Still... Just, let me hope a little. Even if it may hurt me in the end. Damn, now I sound like Hanyuu. |
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| Unless Eua herself intervenes Satoshi is probably gonna stay like that forever. Poor guy. There's still no real cure for L5, except maybe 'friendship' like in Tsumiboroshi. But that's something only we and Rika (and now Satoko) knows as well Strange that Satoko gives up when she knows that Rena has come back from L5, and if she did, her brother could too. |
Chargecoulomb said: I assumed that L5 Rena and Satoshi are different.Unless Eua herself intervenes Satoshi is probably gonna stay like that forever. Poor guy. There's still no real cure for L5, except maybe 'friendship' like in Tsumiboroshi. But that's something only we and Rika (and now Satoko) knows as well Strange that Satoko gives up when she knows that Rena has come back from L5, and if she did, her brother could too. Like as in, L5 itself has 2 or 3 stages itself. Or maybe it is up to the individual and Rena is just stronger. |
ssjokg said: Chargecoulomb said: I assumed that L5 Rena and Satoshi are different.Unless Eua herself intervenes Satoshi is probably gonna stay like that forever. Poor guy. There's still no real cure for L5, except maybe 'friendship' like in Tsumiboroshi. But that's something only we and Rika (and now Satoko) knows as well Strange that Satoko gives up when she knows that Rena has come back from L5, and if she did, her brother could too. Like as in, L5 itself has 2 or 3 stages itself. Or maybe it is up to the individual and Rena is just stronger. I guess so. His state seemed simmilar.or even better than Rena's when Irie found him, heck he seemed to be holding up to HS symptoms much better than Keichii and Rena, but who knows. The main method L5 victims die is by scratching their necks off right, I wonder why Irie and co decide to keep him Comatose instead of just keeping him restrained. Keeping a person in a medically induced coma for years upon years has to be risky. When Hanyuu became dormant after Matsubiriyashi symptoms of HS disappeared right? For all intents and purposes it should have helped Satoshi as well. What if Satoshi was cured as well, but Irie hadn't woken him up to check? I dunno what tests they use to determine the HS status of a person, I assume brain activity or something similar. But a comatose patient should have minimal.brain activity to begin with. So I dunno. We see him getting cured in the console epilogue. Guess it's just because it's convenient to Gou and Sotsu. Satoko wouldn't agree to loop no matter what problems she had with Rika if Satoshi was back. |
ChargecoulombAug 7, 2021 1:15 AM
| Satoko, bahhh she became unbearable, no let's say more unbearable. Mion should have shot her down first, but great that sometimes even assholes have plot armor, I don't need more of this, I can't wait until this bitch makes a mistake that separates her from Rika forever. So we have this remaining fragment from the sword and the other option mentioned in this episode to ruin Satoko's plans. Seriously, without a decent counterpart this "Satoko is the smartest psycho in town" gets really on my nerves. For how much longer have I to witness this stupid loopfreak doing her bloody games. Is there no one ? |
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| Down a toilet....good god that's disgusting. Satoko shows no remorse for any of it. |
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| I'm confused at this point what is the goal here ive seen so many resets and this one apparently is very different to the one from Gou... yeah I have no clue anymore but its fun regardless |
| Mion did nothing wrong.. or was that shion? anyways both very voluptuous and I wouldn't mind if they locked me up as a sex slave :b |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| I'm starting to treat this more like a comedy than horror the more we see of Satoko's antics. |
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| Yep this felt like a bad comedy instead of a psychological horror. You don't even need good reason anymore to get one character to kill another, just blame it all on paranoia and the drug. I was on Satoko's side for a while, but she stopped making sense to me after a few loops. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| seems a new reboot!!!! kekeke |
| Aaah, I thought Satoko was lying next to Shion, but she was lying next to Mion. That's why I thought Satoko killed Shion, but it was actually Mion. Seems like we're off to the next world now. |
| Well at least the answers were better than oniakashi. Otherwise I am finding this unironically funny. |
 MOKUSHI KUSHIMO SHIMOKU KUMOSHI MOSHIKU SHIKUMO. |
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