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| I don't think the atmosphere was bland...I just think it was rushed last minute into the episode so it came off as an after-thought. Part of me wants to see all of the game board stuff as a metaphor, but I just don't think it is. I almost feel like the dialogue is 10 times more important than anything I'm seeing concerning the murders. That said, I'm still not anti-fantasy, even though I think I see why people would be now. I can't remember either, but I do know it wasn't that line, JackFrost. I think Battler might have followed up on it, but not in the way I was thinking or something. Oh well. That's the first thought that went through my head...about Kanon being an android or something...but then I have to believe that the show is set in 86 explicitly so that technology doesn't interfere with a lot of the mystery (cell phones, internet, what not) so that pretty quickly left my mind...and I'm just stuck with Kinzo creating a human with magic...I don't know...it is what it is. |
| rawrs ... Maria watching higurashi .. flying red words xD |
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| This episode made me love Kanon <3 Jessica and Kanon's dying scene was awesome but I wanted to hear Kanon's true name aaargh! XD I want the next episode ASAP. |
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| :( |
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| Some side info but not sure if it will help anyone: Asmodeus and his origins This might prove useful in the future to understand Wrath and other demon summoning of Beatrice. This is the original symbol Maria was refering and the website tells All that needs to be known about most symbols used by Beatrice. They are all Solomon and demonic in nature.  Web site: Now that is analyzing. I liked both parts under spoiler but not the deaths. They censored candy brands? LOL! |
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| The censoring destroyed the whole episode for me... |
| Love the ep :) EARN CASH BY just clicking 4 sites a day http://www.neobux.com/?r=setsia |
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| AWWW!!!! what with that damn censorship >.< i can't see anything T^T |
| Impressive episode has to be probably the best one yet. I guess the whole Kanon/Furniture thing was true. Can all the servants do that? I hate what happened to Jessica.. Also, Battler impressed me in the meta-world. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I don't know if it's because I already played the VN, but I just didn't enjoy this episode at all. Nearly every scene I found great in the VN seems incredibly corny in the anime, plus it's missing most of the music from the VN which is what created most of the emotion and atmosphere. I'm just not feeling it at all. It's not horrible though, just not good. I'll give it a few more episodes I suppose, otherwise I don't really feel like watching it anymore. I'd rather just replay the VN honestly. |
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| Cool magic fight. Didn't like the censorship that much. Wonder what it was. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Hybrid00 said: Cool magic fight. Didn't like the censorship that much. Wonder what it was. I made a joke it could brands like Kitkat and Mr.Big so they could not show it. |
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| a ridiculous development imo, xD the fight and all. but the end where battler was able to solve this locked door case is cool though. |
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| What the...I don't even....WHAT!? -What a completely different beast from Higurashi this shiow has revealed itself to be. Just when I thought I was getting somewhat of a handle on how the story works, I see Beatrice bring out some goat butlers and Kanon and the butlers using the blades from Chaos;Head. And then I realize that the flying daggers from the first chapter were actually moe personifications of two of the seven deadly sins. Oh and apparently Kanon's a badass, who knew? -I think I get the whole furniture thing now. -So this is the "red truth" thing that was accidentally spoiled for me on another forum. I believe this constitutes as a class action of breaking the fourth wall. It's like the creators know you're playing a game so they try to kick it up as much as possible. And again, Battler shows off his Detetive Conan powers. -Well, I know I'm liking this more than Higurashi Also, for those who saw gg's, lol at -Ending Theme. " Kinzo's Rock Opera Madhouse of Divine Tragedy: Desire Edition." Vocals, Lyrics, Composition Kinzo Ushiromiya- |
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| they're trying to explain why maria is messed up... by showing us she has the higurashi kai dvd with her... I was wondering how they'd do red text, guess that's the best you could get |
| Hidden Moonlight 隠された月光 |
noteDhero said: Wow. I think my brain is officially turned off now. I just can't really bother to take the show seriously at all while I'm watching it. We've now crossed into Chaos;Head levels of absurdity, and to think about the conclusion seems like a waste of time. Part of me wants to think about the meta world, but these game boards just really take me out of it. Kanon pulling a light sword out of thin air to fight stakes named after the seven deadly sins and goat people was ridiculous. The thought that I would care about Jessica and Kanon's deaths because I saw one episode centered on their lame lives is even more ridiculous. On the plus side, the meta world scene was at least interesting. Red text is lame, but a good way to add a little bit of depth. Problem is (and maybe I'm not getting the way it works) that there are some important things that she isn't saying that isn't in red (most have escaped my mind and I don't really care to go back), but ultimately, since Battler is trying to say that the murders were pulled off by extra people on the island, I guess none of those things prove what he is going for. Oh yeah, and the use of the word "furniture" between Beatrice and Kanon was interesting. Almost like it's a euphemism for something else. Overall though, because the second twilight was so jarringly bad, I hated the episode. To quote myself earlier Things to think about. if Kanon had the power to use a magic sword like that, then why didn't he do it in the first arc? He was by himself confronting Beatrice and he used a billhook instead. If the culprit for the first twilight was the witch Beatrice then why would she have to go through the trouble of retrieving the key from Maria? She could just use magic to open the lock. Before you were talking about who was the narrator of the story. In the first arc it was Battler but in this arc it's Beatrice. The scenes with magic are Beatrice's interpretation of the scene. The next arc explains how that's possible. Oh and the magic fight with Kanon was supposed to be ridiculous. As for the red truth, Beatrice has to be very careful with what she says. If witches and magic doesn't exist then she can accidentally erase her own existence. The more she speaks in red, the closer Battler gets to the truth. Beatrice doesn't use the red to help Battler, she uses it to smash his theories and to corner him. She needs to use it as little as possible to achieve that result. |
LunarEmeraldAug 21, 2009 7:10 AM
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MarthX said: If the culprit for the first twilight was the witch Beatrice then why would she have to go through the trouble of retrieving the key from Maria? She could just use magic to open the lock. When did they say that Beatrice tried to retrieve the key from Maria ? She wants to prove that the key was NOT retrieved so it means that they went through the door without the key -> by magic. |
4saken_762 said: MarthX said: If the culprit for the first twilight was the witch Beatrice then why would she have to go through the trouble of retrieving the key from Maria? She could just use magic to open the lock. When did they say that Beatrice tried to retrieve the key from Maria ? She wants to prove that the key was NOT retrieved so it means that they went through the door without the key -> by magic. Battler's theory wasn't disproven which was the culprit stole the key from Maria, used it then returned it. Beatrice couldn't disprove that theory with red. If the culprit was a witch then she wouldn't need to do that and should easily be able to disprove it. |
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| Every Thursday night/Friday morning, I would always visit the uuuuuu discussion board like clockwerk and spoiler myself to death and then started watching the subbed episode just cause doing it the other way around makes my head hurt even more. |
| Best episode so far. Rosa is badass. |
| I wonder if Rosa's lack of reaction could be considered an extra hint. In theory Rosa could be the culprit. If you exclude Beatrice, at the end of episode 7, she's the only one shown at the chapel that wasn't killed in the first twilight. Rosa acts like she's never been to the chapel before when entering it the next day. Pretty sure Rosa never told the others about the letter she got from Beatrice nor that she met her. It would be easier for her to take the key from Maria's bag than the others. Her looking through Maria's bag wouldn't look suspicious since she is her mother. She knew the chapel key was in the envelope the next day. Of course she would know if she put it there. It's not hard to play dumb. Rosa is very suspicious. |
LunarEmeraldAug 21, 2009 7:56 AM
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MarthX said: I wonder if Rosa's lack of reaction could be considered an extra hint. In theory Rosa could be the culprit. If you exclude Beatrice, at the end of episode 7, she's the only shown at the chapel that wasn't killed in the first twilight. Rosa acts like she's never been to the chapel before when entering it the next day. Pretty sure Rosa never told the others about the letter she got from Beatrice nor that she met her. Rosa is very suspicious. That's the problem.. Shes sooo suspicious that I feel its not her :[ Another thing I realized was, wheres the old housemaid in allmost the whole first half? xD |
porkypinkAug 21, 2009 8:03 AM
[right] |
| Interesting way of doing this. I don't exactly like this arc though, the first half felt fake and was quite boring. |
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MarthX said: To quote myself earlier Things to think about. if Kanon had the power to use a magic sword like that, then why didn't he do it in the first arc? He was by himself confronting Beatrice and he used a billhook instead. If the culprit for the first twilight was the witch Beatrice then why would she have to go through the trouble of retrieving the key from Maria? She could just use magic to open the lock. Before you were talking about who was the narrator of the story. In the first arc it was Battler but in this arc it's Beatrice. The scenes with magic are Beatrice's interpretation of the scene. The next arc explains how that's possible. Oh and the magic fight with Kanon was supposed to be ridiculous. As for the red truth, Beatrice has to be very careful with what she says. If witches and magic doesn't exist then she can accidentally erase her own existence. The more she speaks in red, the closer Battler gets to the truth. Beatrice doesn't use the red to help Battler, she uses it to smash his theories and to corner him. She needs to use it as little as possible to achieve that result. The way I'd guess Kanon's sword works in the same way that Beatrice's magic works...the more people who believe in magic, then it works, and since Kinzo and Beatrice are tied together in that way, so is their magic. Or as has been stated enough times in the show, the more you believe in something, you can create it: ie Kanon wanted badly enough to create a sword to protect Jessica and he did. Overall though, I think it's pretty futile to try and connect the smaller details of the two worlds between one another since so many of the larger details are different. Beatrice is actually on the island, so who knows what that actually means. Isn't that what she said? She said that she entered and killed everyone using magic. Concerning the narration...I still disagree. There have been no indications that the narration has shifted, and thus I can't believe that it isn't an independent third person. Something the show doesn't do a good job of conveying is whether or not meta Battler and Beatrice see everything as it goes on, or if he only knows what game Battler sees and is told. Did meta Battler see everything that went on with Kanon and Jessica? I think it's really important that we know one way or another. That's why the meta scene was so interesting. Ultimately though, even if Rosa is the murderer...Battler is still wrong. He's out to prove that no member of the family committed the crimes, and that Beatrice doesn't exist. Also, I'd have to wonder how she fooled Maria into thinking she was Beatrice while also being there to give herself the letter. |
HakoTan said: Still, Rosa propably is accomplice or something. Another thing I realized was, wheres the old housemaid in allmost the whole first half? xD //Maybe she was with mackerel. ahaha..ha...She was sleeping. She's, err, not the hardest worker. ;D |
| The handsword/blade thing that Kanon used is called a locus. At least, inthe game. I don't know why exactly, but that's what it's called. |
z-pakAug 21, 2009 11:16 AM
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| I was disspointed with how they use the red text, flying over everwhere where no one can look it clearly. Also the meta battle is no longer intense. In the vn, Battler was first down but then he could turn back the condition miraculously, but here it was just like another ordinary conversation with guessing. Dissapointing, DEEN.... Although i was pretty satisfied with Kanon's battle and what i waited was finally shows !! 2 of the seven stakes finally shows up, Asmodeus & Satan !! And Yui & Mio was doing it fabulously !!! I really can't wait Lucifer to come out ! Next, 'Kanon' returns... |
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| No one needs to see the red texts clearly, the Japanese can hear and we have the subs, and you can pause too if you want. And I think you overrate Battler's win. I think it's quite simple to go to that conclusion, and it shouldn't take Battler too much time to think about it. |
| Damn censoring. Gtfo. :( |
| Great episode. The pinnacle of it being the Battler vs Beatrice scene of course, which was simply epic. The red sentences are a great addition, it must be the first time I see such a concept in a series or a movie (even if it was of course in the visual novel), and on top of that, it's done right. The only scene that was really out of place was the second twilight, it was one of those wtf moments that you just can't explain (apparently, it's supposed to be ridiculous, ok, I trust Ryukishi07 will be able to explain it anyway since he's one fo the best scriptwriters I've ever read). Still, something tells me that Rosa and a shotgun don't go well together, I fear some collateral damage. |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
| This episode definitely took me for a spin. I was so confused by the fight between Kanon and Beatrice demons(it was really good though). I was seriously getting angry at trying to accept the fact that the culprit might not be human. However at the end of the episode of my faith was reformed by this sceen. If what ever Beatrice says is true does appear in red text then why didn't this. Because it wasn't done by magic. And i think it was a double take with both Beatrice and Butler was to point this out even more. Can't wait for next weeks episode. Murders were really weird this week(I am pissed i found a censored version, will have to try to find it uncensored later.) |
Ahohime said: Damn censoring. Gtfo. :( The red text is a bit annoying too. |
burntlettuce said: This episode definitely took me for a spin. I was so confused by the fight between Kanon and Beatrice demons(it was really good though). I was seriously getting angry at trying to accept the fact that the culprit might not be human. However at the end of the episode of my faith was reformed by this sceen. If what ever Beatrice says is true does appear in red text then why didn't this. Because it wasn't done by magic. And i think it was a double take with both Beatrice and Butler was to point this out even more. Can't wait for next weeks episode. Murders were really weird this week(I am pissed i found a censored version, will have to try to find it uncensored later.) If Beatrice uses the red to prove witches exist, then what would be the whole point? Just like if she uses the red to say humans did it she'd be denying her existence. |
Renza said: If Beatrice uses the red to prove witches exist, then what would be the whole point? Just like if she uses the red to say humans did it she'd be denying her existence. True, i don't believe she would be stupid enough to do that either. However as i stated i feel the fact that it was a double take on both of characters was to emphasize the fact that it wasn't in red. I will admit though i am looking for any hint to prove that the killer is human. I do not want the killer to be a witch or anything like that. |
I laughed... Have they trying to drive she mad ? It's just pitiful... I complain her. :( |
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| I wan the killer to be human too, if not than there will be no point in figuring out how the murders were carried out. For now i'm quite sure someone other than a witch is behind all these. However I wont say there are absolutely no witchcraft or magic in the story... some stuff that really puzzles me is the fight between kanon and the goats (honestly I felt like watching star wars or something) Plz tel me wats going on |
Hydrazoid said: I wan the killer to be human too, if not than there will be no point in figuring out how the murders were carried out. For now i'm quite sure someone other than a witch is behind all these. However I wont say there are absolutely no witchcraft or magic in the story... some stuff that really puzzles me is the fight between kanon and the goats (honestly I felt like watching star wars or something) Plz tel me wats going on Like other's have said, the fight between Kanon and the Goats was Beatrice's exaggeration of what really happened. |
ShiroiRyu said: I laughed... Have they trying to drive she mad ? It's just pitiful... I complain her. :( that part is NASTY! Maria is making all CRAZY! |
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JackFrost said: noteDhero said: I can't remember either, but I do know it wasn't that line, JackFrost. I think Battler might have followed up on it, but not in the way I was thinking or something. Oh well. Actually, I think I found it. Beatrice's first red text is: From now on, when I speak of the truth, that sentence will be displayed in red letters. But then she follows it with a non-red statement: From now on, everything I say in red is the truth. The latter line was actually stated in red in the VN. I find it a bit odd that they didn't in the anime... In any case, whatever red text Beatrice states is indeed true. They actually left out several other red statements from the VN also, some of which might've been redundant, but not so sure about the others. noteDhero said: Concerning the narration...I still disagree. There have been no indications that the narration has shifted, and thus I can't believe that it isn't an independent third person. Something the show doesn't do a good job of conveying is whether or not meta Battler and Beatrice see everything as it goes on, or if he only knows what game Battler sees and is told. Did meta Battler see everything that went on with Kanon and Jessica? I think it's really important that we know one way or another. It's not even that the narration has shifted away from an independent third person; given the nature of Beatrice's game board, it's possible to have that kind of narrator and still not trust what's going on (which is emphasized in the VN). It's more to the extent that the narration itself is limited by the rules of the game and the person running it (Beatrice) - so we, the audience are restricted to the point of view meta-Battler would have if he were viewing the scenes himself. again, too much emphasis on the VN. As an adaptation, Deen definitely screwed up big time. Small details in the VN are actually important and it's really a shame Deen didn't get it right. VN readers don't realize the lack of it because they read the original that contained them. For non-VN readers, not only it's losing interest, it seems Deen messed up the characters as well (quite bland and lack devleopment) I lol'ed at Battler's arguments. Can he not find BETTER and more intelligent arguments than the obvious ones.....Jessica and Kanon's death were funny, because it looked fake and exaggerated.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| I find it very disturbing to read how many people complaining about the censoring. Up to this point, I am accepting anything the show tells me, magic or no magic, it just doesn't really matter anymore. And, this is what I think of the episode: wakka9ca said: I lol'ed at Battler's arguments. Can he not find BETTER and more intelligent arguments than the obvious ones.....Jessica and Kanon's death were funny, because it looked fake and exaggerated.... |
| lol at Battler Wright I actually liked this episode the most of all the episodes before now, coming from someone who hasn't read or played it. I'm also glad the TV station had censored the...details of the killings, since I'm not one for gore, and apparently from the letter Beatrice wrote it was quite a sick killing. I mean, candy and cookies in a open gutted stomach? No thank you. And from what I gathered from Kanon's fight scene, he and Shanon were made by the grandfather through black magic? I also like how at the end Rosa was given some good (as in good and evil, not in good and bad job) parts, since before the only scenes she really made appearances in featured her slapping Maria. EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but I'm also glad they made Battler seem more human. At least this time he actually showed some grief over his parents murders. He showed more emotion in this episode than probably all the previous episodes put together. |
(Almost) 13 years on MAL! ()__() (='.'=) (")_(") |
JackFrost said: Actually, I think I found it. Beatrice's first red text is: From now on, when I speak of the truth, that sentence will be displayed in red letters. But then she follows it with a non-red statement: From now on, everything I say in red is the truth. The latter line was actually stated in red in the VN. I find it a bit odd that they didn't in the anime... In any case, whatever red text Beatrice states is indeed true. They actually left out several other red statements from the VN also, some of which might've been redundant, but not so sure about the others. It's not even that the narration has shifted away from an independent third person; given the nature of Beatrice's game board, it's possible to have that kind of narrator and still not trust what's going on. It's more to the extent that the narration itself is limited by the rules of the game and the person running it (Beatrice) - so we, the audience are restricted to the point of view meta-Battler would have if he were viewing the scenes himself. I think that's the statement. I wonder if that was a trip up on DEEN's part or a knowing change. As for narration, I think I see what MarthX was trying to say in that it's Beatrice's perspective. It's not really, but because she is in control of what we see it kind of makes it that way. It's kind of like 2nd person...actually, I think this is the definition of 2nd person. Hmmm. I don't think I've ever encountered a 2nd person narrative. Points for that. But again, because of this structure, there's just no real point in thinking about anything, and instead just accepting everything that you see, trusting that there will be a good explanation in the end. That's just not my kind of mystery. I don't know how to explain it except for that it feels like I'm getting further from the big picture with every episode that comes out. And I agree with Wakka...as an adaptation, this show just doesn't work. The fact that I need clarifications from people familiar with the VN is one thing (this could also be the problem of overzealous VNers complicating matters, but I don't know) is a problem. Moreover, it just doesn't feel like they are working hard to make this work for an animated format. It's hard to say without playing the VN and coming up with my ideas myself...but I feel like more work could have gone into the show. |
noteDhero said: JackFrost said: Actually, I think I found it. Beatrice's first red text is: From now on, when I speak of the truth, that sentence will be displayed in red letters. But then she follows it with a non-red statement: From now on, everything I say in red is the truth. The latter line was actually stated in red in the VN. I find it a bit odd that they didn't in the anime... In any case, whatever red text Beatrice states is indeed true. They actually left out several other red statements from the VN also, some of which might've been redundant, but not so sure about the others. It's not even that the narration has shifted away from an independent third person; given the nature of Beatrice's game board, it's possible to have that kind of narrator and still not trust what's going on. It's more to the extent that the narration itself is limited by the rules of the game and the person running it (Beatrice) - so we, the audience are restricted to the point of view meta-Battler would have if he were viewing the scenes himself. I think that's the statement. I wonder if that was a trip up on DEEN's part or a knowing change. As for narration, I think I see what MarthX was trying to say in that it's Beatrice's perspective. It's not really, but because she is in control of what we see it kind of makes it that way. It's kind of like 2nd person...actually, I think this is the definition of 2nd person. Hmmm. I don't think I've ever encountered a 2nd person narrative. Points for that. But again, because of this structure, there's just no real point in thinking about anything, and instead just accepting everything that you see, trusting that there will be a good explanation in the end. That's just not my kind of mystery. I don't know how to explain it except for that it feels like I'm getting further from the big picture with every episode that comes out. And I agree with Wakka...as an adaptation, this show just doesn't work. The fact that I need clarifications from people familiar with the VN is one thing (this could also be the problem of overzealous VNers complicating matters, but I don't know) is a problem. Moreover, it just doesn't feel like they are working hard to make this work for an animated format. It's hard to say without playing the VN and coming up with my ideas myself...but I feel like more work could have gone into the show. I dunno.. I think at this point, the anime is doing a good job. Things VN readers are explaining now are based off future knowledge, which is why they're able to understand things more clearly. When they were on EP2, I bet they were as confused as anime only watchers are now. Things become a lot more clearer in the next arc. Right now as an adaption, I would rate the anime a 7 out of 10. It's good but it could be a lot better. |
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