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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Ah Wood....I had a feeling he wouldn't make it in this show by the end. Good night sweet prince. Idk, this finale had unresolved drama that could be expanded. For what's worth, they could easily add more storytelling for an epilogue. |
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| Zen killed the president of the USA... the end was really shocking, that last scene too... |
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| By their logic the show ended, therefore is bad |
| I don't understand the point of this show. Shock factor? Evil wins in the end? Was this entire detective thriller just an excuse to talk philosophically (and lazy philosophy at that) and to kill the president of the united states? What was the point? I don't need happy endings but I need some sort of closure that shows that watching these 12 episodes had a purpose. What a waste of potential to an amazing premise. |
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| The ending was awful, but what else could I expect from this mess of a show? I'm glad it's over. |
| The worst possible outcome. Zen had to kill Alex and Magase survived. She was a great villain till the end but this was a really frustrating end. We don't even know what happened to the suicide law. |
MegamiRemJan 27, 2020 6:54 AM
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| This anime was so amazing. Definitely one of the best thriller anime ever. Final score 9/10 |
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| What the fuck was that ending. I've never been more disappointed with a show before. There is a lot of bad anime but at least they don't try to be serious and just go with it, but this one tried to be "deeP" too hard, and ended up being just stupid. It'd have been better if Zen just killed Magase (Who should've actually been in the building) after the President, and then got shot from a helicopter. And no post-credits bullshit scene. That'd have been a perfect ending and saved the anime. 2/10 - Massive disappointment |
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| Uhm... what? That's it? I really don't get it. Why did he even have to shoot the president to begin with, but more importantly that was such an anticlimatic ending anyway. So much plot potential that they never did anything with and it all feels like it amounted to nothing in the end I still liked the show a lot for most of its airing but... yeah that wasn't a great ending >_> |
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Eonlars said: I mean yeah but that's kinda paradoxical. If the conclusion he arrived at was that suicide is a good thing then why not just let him do it? Shooting him isn't exactly justified just because of that and murder sure as hell isn't better at the very least. Of course Seizaki is biased towards the opposite end of the scale but meh. It's so inconclusive this way. Feels like almost nothing was resolved in the endHaXXspetten said: Uhm... what? That's it? I really don't get it. Why did he even have to shoot the president to begin with, but more importantly that was such an anticlimatic ending anyway. So much plot potential that they never did anything with and it all feels like it amounted to nothing in the end I still liked the show a lot for most of its airing but... yeah that wasn't a great ending >_> If he didn't shoot the president it would have proved that the president reached a conclusion where suicide was a good thing(he said he would commit suicide if he thought suicide was a good thing), meaning the whole word would have been convinced with the suicide law so when he was shot by Zen, it prevented him from jumping off the roof. |
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| Sorta long ramble here, cause I can’t keep the bottle cap on anymore. That was perhaps one of the worst fucking conclusions to a mystery / psychological series that I’ve ever seen in my entire life. What was accomplished? Nothing. What was taught here? Nothing. What was the ultimate point of all that meandering? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Magase’s Quirk....I mean, Esper ability.....I mean, Gifted abil—.....ahhh fuck it, i dunno what to describe. That shit never had any sort of set-in-stone explanation. She’s perhaps one of the worst excuses of a villain I’ve ever witnessed. Whatever bit of backstory tossed in for her is silly and bareboned. She’s not sophisticated, she acts so, but there’s no true deeper intent, just a redundant af ideal about what’s good and evil. She wins in the end and is now probably gonna prey on the mc’s son now, but what was the point? It was so anticlimactic and inconclusive, considering how the series kinda lost its spirit by episode 7. Any visual cues this show are mostly too hollow without much foundation to really have much deeper theme, context, or meaning. Tbh, episode 3 was the point where I should’ve noticed the red flag, due to how the course of the story suddenly changes to chasing some crazy bitch with supernatural psychic powers to “talk” people into suicide. Zen himself was as underwhelming as everyone else in the cast. One can argue about fitting oneself into the characters’ shoes and parallelism or realism, but seriously.......does realism alone always constitute good storywriting? No, ofc not. The one good thing I can take away from the show: the soundtracks, cause they help with adding to the tension (or at least attempts at tension). If this was how the original source material went, this series was already full of problems to begin with, regardless of bad pacing or not (only 3 LN vol, 2 manga vol). And people compare this to Psycho Pass s1 or even say it’s better than latter...I can’t really comprehend that, tbh, cause Psycho Pass had a sci-fi dystopia setting whereas Babylon does not unless one wants to consider Magase’s “Quirk”. Magase as a character would’ve been more befitting in a more supernatural setting. I don’t even want to talk in detail about the redundancy about the numerous discussions about this “good Vs evil” subject. The conversation went from thought-provoking to childish real quick. Was this just more of a leeway for Magase to have her way that easily because a bunch of god damn politicians can’t come to a straightforward and obvious conclusion that was right there in front of them the whole time? I guess so. With all that being said, the foundations for this show were too weak to begin with. It’s like trying to drive a big luxury cruiser without any propellers or engine. It felt like a show where the brainstorming just stopped halfway. |
RyuseishunJan 27, 2020 9:59 AM
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| What a waste of time. That was an extremely terrible ending. The fact they never even explain her "powers" or mention anything about the suicide law afterwards, made it even worse. |
| I'm honestly still processing the ending of this anime because it's not exactly what I expected, like it fits, but at the same time there wasn't a nice closure, unless you think really really hard and you'd notice that everything does actually fit. In the final scene Seizaki said ''Evil is to end'' in which Ai replies to with ''sorry then'' and the bang happens. Basically since Ai is evil she did what an evil person would do according to Seizaki, and she ended his life. I don't see any other way around it, the bang was definitely him killing himself. Since we can tell she's alive and well after the ending song. It's just saddening for Seizaki to go through a living hell just to then die the way he did, literally at the hands of Ai. But I guess the good thing he did was killing the president because that way the public wouldn't think he tried to kill himself, and this is all just too ironic because Seizaki did the evil thing here; he ended Alex's life. Which makes you think all over again, so the evil thing to do was actually the best thing to do? So evil can be good? |
| What. The. Fuck... |
| Ok, bro, what the fuck? So We lost Kobe earlier and now this shitty ending? I'm sorry, I really am, but what the fuck was that? What was even the point of the past 3 months? I was praising this as a masterpiece and saying it was one of the greats and they go and pull this shit. No answer to the big philosophical debate we had been trying to resolve for the length of the show, the president dies, Zen seemingly commits suicide, this went from a 10 to a solid 6 and it's no one's fault but the writer. He had it all prepared to be a masterpiece and threw it away. I am extremely disappointed. I hate I stayed up to 7am for this bullshit. |
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| alot of stuff don't make sense also they never explained ai's powers, the ending just didn't feel right for me, i did enjoy the ride though so a 7/10 for me to this show as a whole |
| With all these being said, the negoiation for a hostage of Kaiba Itsuki vs. Alexander W. Wood, President of the USA, with Zen Seizaki at the sidelines. Too bad Magase is still the villain to catch, and by this point, he has enough of her antics and mindplay tricks. NGL the Bible interpretation of the Book of Genesis in the Garden of Eden is true, but that even is the end of Wood, by the one shot of Zen, the same gun that the President hand over to him. As much as "suicide" has both "good" and "bad", pitting a person such as the President on suicide row is just insane. Even worse is the explainiation (OR RATHER the interpretation) not done really well, and that's left to the viewer to decide on his/her own. IDK if Zen's action were to indite the fact that he's been played along in Magase's hands, but one thing's for certain: he has done the "good deed". And Magase has done it all with her intention of "good and evil". And anticlimatic ending ensues... NGL though, kinda knew that MADO NOZAKI would not found the right answer, and the last arc just proves that he's more than a preacher than a writer. And neither will he in his future works, so please don't be hooked by the premise that he will be working on anymore. Good premise, brought on by elevating action and intenseness, ONLY to die out at the end. What a shame for such a good story like this. @Ryuseishun if you're familiar with the figure called Mado Nozaki, it's the same author as Kado: The Right Answer. |
KANLen09Jan 27, 2020 8:04 AM
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| First and foremost, at this point, there is no and will never be a happy ending (for now just facts, regardless of how anime medium works): 1) President was killed. 2) It was broadcasted to the world. 3) Seizaki will definitely be punished by law for murder. So, here's the controversy: good - is to continue; bad - is to end. Then, why did Seizaki END the president? Well, it's quite obvious, considering that he was trying to prevent president from killing himself after his said statement. Another point to consider, did Magase at the final scene use her ability to affect Seizaki's mindset? From here on plot could diverge, however one can say that author wouldn't choose something that could be expected, shocking or 'cringey', so for that reason, let's say that after reaching the conclusion, Seizaki decided not to shoot, because ending is evil (Else he wouldn't be able to return to his family (..and of course, he won't be returning anyway but it was still mentioned in anime), as this was the main driving force - his motivation, reason to live another day). Then what the hell, was it okay to shoot the president but NOT Magase? One way to look at it: Seizaki is still human - by that time, he already had PTSD, which shows that (obviously) it was affecting him mentally, so he chose his own sanity over his obsession with Magase. If Seizaki's psychological health would be crippled, then no matter how much time would pass, he won't be able to face his family. One the other hand, killing president was his own belief in 'justice', as mentioned throughout the anime, to prevent worst case scenario. In a way, justice could be regarded as Trolley problem. Main question, what's the point of the show? Then I should ask you what is the plot of the anime? Suicide law? No. Suicide? No, because they are only storytelling tools. My opinion is that it is about good and evil (as in, what is Justice, first sin, Whore of Babylon and so on). |
KANLen09 said: With all these being said, the negoiation for a hostage of Kaiba Itsuki vs. Alexander W. Wood, President of the USA, with Zen Seizaki at the sidelines. Too bad Magase is still the villain to catch, and by this point, he has enough of her antics and mindplay tricks. NGL the Bible interpretation of the Book of Genesis in the Garden of Eden is true, but that even is the end of Wood, by the one shot of Zen, the same gun that the President hand over to him. As much as "suicide" has both "good" and "bad", pitting a person such as the President on suicide row is just insane. Even worse is the explainiation (OR RATHER the interpretation) not done really well, and that's left to the viewer to decide on his/her own. IDK if Zen's action were to indite the fact that he's been played along in Magase's hands, but one thing's for certain: he has done the "good deed". If one thing's for clear, MADO NOZAKI hasn't found the right answer. And neither will he in his future works. @Ryuseishun if you're familiar with the figure called Mado Nozaki, it's the same author as Kado: The Right Answer. Come to think of it, I’ve yet to watch that show in full, because I just kinda lost interest after the ep 0...lol. I might revisit it later today or this week. Thanks for the bit of helpful trivia, though. |
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| Okay, killing the president made some sense (if he jumped off the building it would be like confirming that suicide is good, he had promised kanae that he would die with her if he reached that conclusion) and Zen didn't really have much of a choice at that moment. But what about everything else? He didn't kill Magase, fair enough. But what about the suicide law? Why Seizaki was the only one that wasn't affected by Magase? Does the book have such an open ending as well? |
PhantomEosJan 27, 2020 7:56 AM
MehmetY said: Swagarot said: alot of stuff don't make sense also they never explained ai's powers, the ending just didn't feel right for me, i did enjoy the ride though so a 7/10 for me to this show as a whole Actually they kinda explained Ai's power. She seduces people too hard so they can't take it anymore and want to die just like how your body can't take masturbate anymore and wants to finish it. Basically Ai's power is super duper seducing. ye i mean that's what her power is but there's no explanation to why she has it, how it works and so on. honestly i feel like they should've just ended it without any answer if the only answer we're getting is good is continue and bad is to end. |
| Great episode, questionable ending. I really liked the conversation between Alex and girl and his eventual conclusion that 'good' means 'to continue' and 'evil' means to end is an interesting philosophical conclusion for the questions this show has been bringing up. I think I can get why Seizaki decided to shoot Alex at the end, it was to save the president's face to the world where he announced he would commit suicide if he thought it was good. Alex was corrupted by Magase's 'power' despite reaching the same conclusion as Seizaki, and Seizaki didn't want the world to think that Alex's true answer was the one with him committing suicide. It's ironic because Seizaki is committing 'evil' in the hopes that the world will see Alex as 'good' despite staunchly vouching for 'good' throughout the whole show. The conclusion to the series as a whole is very inconclusive, we don't know what happened to Seizaki, given that Magase is alive at the end, can we assume he shot himself? What happened to the Suicide law? We deserve at least one more episode to show us a conclusion. Overall, despite the abrupt ending I really liked this show. Mysterious, suspenseful and intriguing. The philosophical debates were interesting and made you think about them, Magase's 'power' is overly plot convenient, and doesn't really make sense given the reality based settings but I guess it was a means to bring about the good vs evil debate over making sense in the setting. I guess to that matter, the entire show seems to be more about conveying the ideas of what good, evil and justice could possibly mean with the story just serving as a means to that end. Still a very enjoyable show, absolutely shocking at points and intriguing in others. I only wish it had a more conclusive ending and Magse's 'power' was more coherent with the setting. 7/10 |
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| I felt like Zen did the correct thing otherwise the suicide law would fully come in place but dude... What the fuck did I just watch??? Also Magase appeared again after the ED despite the gunshot, so is Zen fucking dead or did he fucking miss?? If he did missed why didn't he just kill her since he's already fucked anyways, killing the U.S president in front of the whole world like that. Sure Magase is a great villain and all but I just don't like how a single girl can just kill easily by whispering some words. I thought this was gonna be a legit mystery psychological anime at first until Magase threw me off. I liked how she could make you question reality like how she did it during her interrogation but, her "powers" are just too unreal and would even still be OP if this was some isekai shit. Oh well, this series was somehow enjoyable for me but am just a bit disappointed. |
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HaXXspetten said: Eonlars said: I mean yeah but that's kinda paradoxical. If the conclusion he arrived at was that suicide is a good thing then why not just let him do it? Shooting him isn't exactly justified just because of that and murder sure as hell isn't better at the very least. Of course Seizaki is biased towards the opposite end of the scale but meh. It's so inconclusive this way. Feels like almost nothing was resolved in the endIf he didn't shoot the president it would have proved that the president reached a conclusion where suicide was a good thing(he said he would commit suicide if he thought suicide was a good thing), meaning the whole word would have been convinced with the suicide law so when he was shot by Zen, it prevented him from jumping off the roof. Did u watch the whole episode? The conclusion the president reached was that "Good" is continuing not suicide. He wanted to tell that to the girl but that's when Magase made him want to suicide. He even told Zen that if he suicides now that will be telling the girl a lie. The reason Zen had to kill him was as @Eonlars mentioned. The reason Zen didn't kill Magase was because it would be "Evil". |
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MehmetY said: Swagarot said: ye i mean that's what her power is but there's no explanation to why she has it, how it works and so on. honestly i feel like they should've just ended it without any answer if the only answer we're getting is good is continue and bad is to end. In my opinion, fictional works don't need to explain some powers, like Okabe's Reading Steiner in Steins;Gate. But only answer that we got is "Good is continue, evil is end." was really not climaxing. i feel like in steins gate it wasn't as important as in Babylon cause in steins gate while it was important it wasn't used as the main "thing" while in here ai's powers are pretty important cause they cause a lot of major events in the story, i feel like without explaining it ai's powers are just another plot device. |
| The characters are somewhat standins for philosophical ideas of good and evil. Don't worry guys even the japanese community is struggling to understand what this ending was supposed to mean and some even go read the source material to find answers. While this show turned out to be a mess as a story it delivered on the underlying ideas. A mystery is supposed to be mysterious and what would be mysterious if you answer the questions at the end without making the viewer develop afterthoughts or theories of what happened, Thats exactly the reason why some people dislike Umineko or DanganRonpa V3, because its essentially a bad mystery because it provides all the answers at face value. The point of the shootout on the roof was that the president came to the conclusion that committing suicide is to end something and thus evil. Since Seizakis superior and pretty much the most powerful man on the planet cannot be a staple for something evil Seizaki killed him, so he takes the responsibility. He ends his life, which would have thrown into evilness by Magases brain manipulation. In a sense by killing the president Seizaki saves him from disgrace. Obviously this only makes sense in either the boundaries of the story, because noone irl would actually give a fuck about such philosophies but the president was introduced as the "thinker". Obviously he will take such things more seriously Do I think Babylon is a good show? No. Because the philosophical concepts are very bland. Obviously they don't make sense to us neither to the characters in the story because they only have impact for the characters in their internal struggles. Do I think Babylon is a good mystery? Yes. |
| The show had a really good start. Then it turned laughable quickly after the 2nd half started. Then the conclusion they found for what is good and evil is ridiculous. The ending for the story itself was OK. Magase's ability is still a huge hole in the plot, which could've been forgiven, if everything else was good. But that's not the case sadly. |
HaXXspetten said: Yes that is the joke a bad one but still, it isnt supposed to be justified...Seizaki had two choices:Eonlars said: I mean yeah but that's kinda paradoxical. If the conclusion he arrived at was that suicide is a good thing then why not just let him do it? Shooting him isn't exactly justified just because of that and murder sure as hell isn't better at the very least.If he didn't shoot the president it would have proved that the president reached a conclusion where suicide was a good thing(he said he would commit suicide if he thought suicide was a good thing), meaning the whole word would have been convinced with the suicide law so when he was shot by Zen, it prevented him from jumping off the roof. 1- Shoot the president and history will remember this as "that one guy threatened the president and killed him" thus killing things is bad 2-Dont shoot and president suicides which will show the whole world that most powerful figure in the world thinks suicide is good But yeah the anime was a great watch and the showdown at the end was fun but it still was a lackluster ending |
LoneWizzyJan 27, 2020 8:41 AM
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| To continue = Good To end = bad Then thankgod this show end. |
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