Mushoku Tensei II: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu Episode 6 Discussion

MangagnaM said:
I mean he's already working on improving himself magic-wise and trying to heal mentally slowly, and learn about the teleportation. But he also just wants to enjoy his life a bit and he does consider Zanoba a friend so he is willing to help him out, guy hasn't had many bros as mates in the series so far so it's a nice gesture to help him and Julie out like that. He is not as much as indifferent 'traveled' personality, but more politefully distant I would say. He is on good terms with Zanoba and Fitz but he is also not trying to get way too close either considering what happened in the past with abandonment issues and his ongoing ED. It's not as bad as the previous arc where Soldat called him out on it all the time but it still does linger for him. School arc should hopefully have his issues melt away and he can be a bit goofier and more lively as time progresses.

0451 said:
It's frustrating to see Rudeus not connecting the dots and recognizing Fitz is Sylphie. But I guess he really just forgot about Sylphie already considering he didn't mention her once.

Arkaniet said:
He did not forget about her. He said so in the last episode in the library. I think the line was something like "My family has been located but a childhood friend of mine is still missing". There's plenty of "plausible" stuff as to why he doesn't connect the dots but the light novel had the whole identity thing as a mystery that got peeled away if Fitz was actually Sylphi but since this is more visual it is... quite jarring. Especially for the viewer that are in the know. Also putting this wholy on Rudy is also a bit strange. Why is she not coming forth either?

Anyways good episode. Elinalise is doing her thing (It's crazy because we've seen Soldat in episode 4 after he slept with her and that guy frequents high end brothels in major cities and even he said that Elinalise was the best. Those poor virgins will peak at loosing the v-card and never reach that mountain again.) Fitz is throwing Rudy for some sexual confusion. The slave thing though, it's a plausible angle but I can't help but notice that it's crazy that the idea came from Fitz. It shows that the years at the Asuran High Society has left an impression on her regarding questionable ethics. But then again... slavery is not really unethical in that world.

0451 said:

Did the WN/LN chapter that Episode 0 was based on come out after this whole arc was over? If so then the mystery thing would make more sense as the reader wouldn’t be 100% sure about Fitz's identity. But I think most readers would think of Sylphie as the first character after a few hints.

And I think Sylphie will reveal herself eventually. Probably as some sort of surprise. I don't think Rudeus will find out about it by himself at this point.

MyFavoriteCharac said:
I'm sorry I rewatched few scenes 5 times and I have no idea why and what's happening in this episode, if someone can explain to me. Zanaba asks Rudeos to teach him how to carve sculptures for some reason?But he can't controll his superstrenght, so they bought a slave? And the slave needed to be dexterous? And young so they can teach it silent casting? WTF???

MangagnaM said:
He is too strong and clumsy, so the only way he can get sculptures done without basically bothering Rudeus to do it everyday for him, is to get someone else to do it for him. Dexterous meaning they have to be skilled with their hands and have a lot of control and skill when using magic to create them with precision. Rudeus and Sylphie learned silent casting effectively when they were very young and gained a massive mana pool as a result of training with magic from that age, which Julie would need for precision and for retrying many times. I don't get what was difficult about understanding with this scene to rewatch it 5 times.

ChickenDan said:
Isekai & unnecessary slavery

name a more iconic duo

_Freeze_ said:
The Episode was pretty good imo. The part that fucking bothers me with all those isekais is how casually they engage in slavery. I get that for the people of that world it is a normal thing ok. BUT that doesn’t make it morally ok it is still one of the worst things you could do to another human being, for the dipshits that want to say well they aren’t technically humans they are Dwarfs or Beastmen or whatever FUCK YOU specifically.

For the normal people among you my real Problem is Rudeus behavior. He lived like twice as long in our world so the argument different world different standards/morals doesn’t apply here. On the one hand we say well it’s not our world, so our set of morals aren’t important to the story or world, HOWEVER on the other hand we feel bad for the Dwarf child (The characters in the episode also did). OK then what about the fifty other cages in the same room with slaves in them as well, those and their suffering we just ignore yeah all right. Dogshit behavior on Rudeus part.

Another remark, in our own world people engaged and still do to a massiv extent in slavery without thinking it is that bad because they saw/see slaves as less then them. Therefore it is ok to own them like an object. If you argue different world different set of morals so we can’t judge them, or this is just how they do things. Then you basically just said we can’t condemn slave traders/owners in our history because at their point in time it was an accepted part in society. If you think this is a logically sound argument, then maybe anime gives brainrot to people because this behavior is just unacceptable.

Still overall enjoying it so for this one I give a 4.5/5

RobertBobert said:
They were probably embarrassed that Rudeos went down the path of "he's hopeless, let someone make figures for him" as an actual solution to the training problem. But personally, I was more embarrassed that their magic textbooks taught for years that magic is pure talent, even though so many magic practitioners knew and understood that it all depends on childhood training.

Arkaniet said:
In the LN he was stumped. Zanoba couldn't increase his mana capacity and it would need to be a LOT bigger to properly  craft figurines. He wasn't dextrous enough either due to being a blessed child with super human strength. After he didn't know anything else he turned to his senpai Fitz for advice and that's how the slave thing happened. 
"I was more embarrassed that their magic textbooks taught for years that magic is pure talent, even though so many magic practitioners knew and understood that it all depends on childhood training." - I would not take Fitzs words there for face value. He's speaking from personal experience and I don't think you're meant to assume that this is common knowledge because, as you said, this goes against some fundamentals. If that was known they would start getting people into magic school way way earlier then they are currently doing. It was information that seemes relevant for their task at hand so he shared it.

RobertBobert said:
So LN reveals it in a more reasonable way? And are you suggesting that the experiences of the main characters are simply considered unique?

Arkaniet said:

Yep a common trope of isekais is to apply our morals and ethics onto a setting that doesn't abide by them and have the hero of the story change the way of the world by force or by education or whatever else there is. Very common and cozy trope. BUT Mushoku tensei is anything but cozy. Rudeus has no lofty goals, he just wants to make the best out of his second chance and anything else is secondary or tertiary. Is this self centered? Yes. Is it a character flaw? Also yes. The "he lived twice as long" argument doesn't work when he spent 14 years in his old life that led to him being bullied so hard that he lost motivation (blaming everyone else for that as well instead of reflection or looking inward -> character flaw) to keep going and degenerated for twenty years in his room. Dude never grew up he was stuck at 14 and honestly 20 years of degeneration has left him with so much fucking baggage that he still hasn't even remotely overcome even after living 15 years in this new life. He's a very flawed character and his lack of concern for others around him has been a thing for a while. When you only had youself to think about for 20 years you kind of grow blind to others which is, once again, a character flaw.
All of these ramblings aside. You are fundamentally right. I'm just trying to give context and think that your expectations of Rudy are to high. Oddly enough THIS is a very reoccuring thing in the Anime and light novel as well. Eris thinks Rudy is so far above her and put him on a pedestal even though he was struggling with his own shit the whole time. Paul thought Rudy had a great time on the demon continent while he was at the edge multiple times there. Roxy only saw the endless potential in her pupil but failed to notice his social anxiety. Most people notice that somethings off about Rudy and many tend to expect way to much from him as a result of that but the guy is a mess and we even hear his unfiltered thoughts so we as the viewer know that for certain. Alright enough rambling. I hope some of this makes sense to you. Sorry.

Going forward I think it's best to see absolutely everyone as a very flawed character. It's better this way. They all have their shitty sides but oftentimes enough good sides as well.

Arkaniet said:
The LN takes a lot more time to establish clear train of thoughts for pretty much everything that goes on. Scenes that require even more have POV chapters of the other participants to show where they are coming from. The anime tries to at least bring the base stuff across but sometimes misses the mark so yes the LN is more detailed. Regarding that the MCs experience is unique? Yes. In season one Rudy meets the demon queen. The one that gives her the demon eye and she remarks that his amount of mana surpasses even Laplaces which supposedly had and absurdly high amount. Anyways I'm getting off track.
What I meant was: Fitzs assertion here does not reflect knowledge of the general population but is based on personal experience and further research and investigation that is currently not public knowledge, if it had been, people would start learning magic sooner and differently. The LN goes to some lengths to tell how Rudy assumes what was required for him to learn voiceless casting. I don't know if the anime went into this. Also Fitz should have said another line that didn't make it into the anime. I'll spoiler it just in case it's not a big spoiler but it regards the age requirement 

RobertBobert said:
This reminds me of ReZero, where, due to the simplification of a number of dialogues, the motivation of the characters was very much lost in a couple of important scenes.

_Freeze_ said:
I think I need to clear things up a bit. I don't expect Rudeus to be a selfless person or anything and I do not hate him for his character flaws, quite the opposite I think this show handles his very flawed character incredibly well and in Fact I do like him.

 But bad behavior is bad behavior and him suffering from all the shit that happened to him is not an excuse. I don't believe that expecting of someone to condemn the idea of owning a person fundamentally is a high standard to have. Especially since for him it isn't something that just always exists as a morally neutral thing, since he knows about his original world. Yes, a lot of bad things happened to him in his old life, that can be an explanation for his lack of morals in this case, maybe I’m not so sure, but it is most definitely not an excuse. And therefore, I think it is good/needed to call out bad behavior. 

I think we both mean the same thing really; I just don't want there to be room for misinterpretation.
And i just think that the way isekais handel slavery most of the time is just dissapointing

HornySenpaii said:
low-key wondering why doesn't Fitz reveal his identity?