Mahouka Koukou no Yuutousei Episode 2 Discussion

tsubasalover said:
that red hair girl is not from the main series...

tsubasalover said:
Showing twin tail girl admiring main girl how she did in the entrance test.

How main girl is politely greeting made everyone fall in love, even Kimura-san's character. That bully in girls' side (not just main girl).

That twin tail girl knows oniisan's true potential and thought the same as main girl.

lol @ main girl's imaginations.

The members... that red hair girl is not from the main series...

2 friends helping out in joining the Rettousei group.

ED is cheerful.

SaintZeph said:
Could someone explain why they basically recapped the first bit of s1 in this episode? Is it meant to be filler?

Or are they just re-doing the entire show again from the start? I'm so lost...

tsubasalover said:
@Criticiza @Marinate1016 Sorry, I wasn't clear. it should be "long red hair" girl, who was shown at the most right of the computer screen.
I know the one you mention was from the main series, but I wasn't talking about her.

malMaxi said:
The ep all but killed my interest in the series.

The writing is all over the place, the art style has gotten sloppy enough that even i am starting to notice, there are all sorts of inconsistencies in character positions and scene dynamics. Even the sound sucks.

Whatever worked well for me in ep.1 stopped working in ep.2 and likely won't come back.



They are redoing the events of s1 from the point of view of the girls (primarily Miyuki but i guess Honoka too?).
The confusion comes from the fact that they are both skipping important moments (such as the student council discussion) and messing up other important moments (the student standoff is simply worse than it was in the original version).

tsubasalover said:
@Criticiza @Marinate1016 Sorry, I wasn't clear. it should be "long red hair" girl, who was shown at the most right of the computer screen.
I know the one you mention was from the main series, but I wasn't talking about her.

Ishaan_Basu said:
It's honestly so weird watching this because I know the original show by heart. It's so familiar yet it's so different.

EthereaL015 said:
I love Mahouka except for one thing, Miyuki. For me is better to rewatch the reason or re-read the first volumes than watching this but I guess I watch this until the end just because I have time lol.

EthereaL015 said:
I love Mahouka except for one thing, Miyuki. For me is better to rewatch the reason or re-read the first volumes than watching this but I guess I watch this until the end just because I have time lol.

malMaxi said:
the art style has gotten sloppy enough that even i am starting to notice, there are all sorts of inconsistencies in character positions and scene dynamics.

Rinji- said:
But Eimi appeared in the main series as well? On episode 2 of the first season.

malMaxi said:
The ep all but killed my interest in the series.

The writing is all over the place, the art style has gotten sloppy enough that even i am starting to notice, there are all sorts of inconsistencies in character positions and scene dynamics. Even the sound sucks.

Whatever worked well for me in ep.1 stopped working in ep.2 and likely won't come back.



They are redoing the events of s1 from the point of view of the girls (primarily Miyuki but i guess Honoka too?).
The confusion comes from the fact that they are both skipping important moments (such as the student council discussion) and messing up other important moments (the student standoff is simply worse than it was in the original version).

tsubasalover said:
Oh, I see... Thanks for telling me. I don't remember about her at all.

theGodde said:
better than ep 1 because at least there is some actual conflict in the story here

the best thing this show has done so far is make me appreciate the first season more. Back when Mahouka was trying to be something other than a male power fantasy.

malMaxi said:

How is conflict in ep.2 in any way better than conflict in ep.1?
Conflict in ep.1 built both Miyuki's character (as a power fantasy Mary Sue, but whatever) and the world. What did conflict in ep.2 achieve? Who in the world would take the whole Bloom-Weed thing seriously after that display? All we learned in that altercation is that Honoka is useless. But we already knew that from earlier in the episode, so what was even the point?

malMaxi said:
All they needed to do beyond that is to introduce to us the power set of the entire new supporting cast through Honoka's eyes. We should have gotten a bit of a characterization of the red-hair as someone who is adept at martial arts. We should have gotten some characterization of the strange, subtle but also amazing powers that ooze from other group members, show Honoka feeling comfortable in their presence. That would establish the Weed group and would make us root for their well-being as the group.

Apparently because we needed to, no matter what, waste time listening - but not seeing - about Tatsuya getting into the Disciplinary Commitee. Who the hell cares about that?! They could easily do it in the start of next episode :(

RoaringViking said:
i love this, it is like rewatching, but from a different point of view, 1 issue i got with the whole anime in general is that it is so hard to watch it on legal sites, like for me to watch this anime even tho it is 1 of my favorites, i really think twice before i venture into the free sites that i never use, this is not the only anime i have this issue with, i found a site, and after 5 mins of closing pop up ads, i could finally enjoy the episode, which i would say is 1 of the highlight of my week.

theGodde said:
first, I wanna start off by reminding you that this isn't a standalone show. None of the characters (aside from mayuki and to an extent tatsuya) are given a proper introduction. Everyone else just kind of exists and the only way you can make heads or tails of it is by watching the original first season. This is more of a season 1.1 rather than a standalone spinoff.

now looking at this with that context, I would like to remind you that episode one was over 50% just Mayuki and Tatsuya awkwardly...talking (I want to call it flirting, but I'm not even sure what to call that abomination of dialogue). Their relationship is probably the most synthetic and unnatural relationship in the entire series, and so making it the main focus of the entire first episode was just awful. Whether you like it or not, the relationship-related dialogue is objectively bad, even worse than the exposition or plot-related dialogue.

As for the cliche tragically evil villain-of-the-week bad guy of episode 1, that has to be the lamest, laziest, and most boring type of conflict in the action genre.

Therefore, this second episode having more of a plot rather than "let's go shopping and defeat evil bad guy" is an improvement. However it is impossible to follow if you haven't seen OG season 1. There is no real continuity in the episode, it just skips between the key events of S1 while adding a bit of original stuff. However, S1 still has the strongest plot arcs of all of mahouka currently aired, so even fragmented there's more actual conflict and plot than the first episode.

mahouka has always been bad at character introductions, but I agree this episode is especially incompetent. Once again, this is because the entire season is designed to be watched with the knowledge of season 1, rather than as a standalone. Quite possibly the scummiest type of storytelling - piggybacking off your own story because you're too lazy to write anything new. However I suppose the reason why this didn't trigger me was because I had no expectations after being reminded of the pain of watching Mahouka in the first episode.

a power fantasy does not just refer to physical strength, but a situation where a character that stands in for a particular audience has basically the entire cast and plot cater to them. Tatsuya is a clear male power fantasy because all the women love him, he's smart, he's overpowered, he's an engineer, he's got an edgy "emotionless" persona and backstory. The entire plot caters towards tatsuya. He is the foundation for the entire plot. The concept of making a mahouka series from any other perspective drastically reduces what little redeeming qualities the series had to begin with.

However, as I mentioned before, season 1 tried to be different. It presented a hurdle that tatsuya could not instantly overcome. That is, classism. Tatsuya can't cancel out the classism. Even when he turns a situation around and stops it from escalating, he hasn't defeated classism, because the very existence of the situations he resolves are the problem itself. Mahouka season 1 forced tatsuya to slowly and carefully work hard within the school to change their attitudes. Sure he never failed because he's a power fantasy protagonist, however it felt nonetheless like a struggle. Even if the blooms/weeds thing is cingey af and super one the nose, it still made for a more interesting story than the rest of the show, where instead tatsuya is presented with physical problems that he can effortlessly overcome. This is why power fantasies are generally looked down with scorn and disgust within the writing world, because so many of them turn out like the later arcs of mahouka, where the protagonist is never challenged beyond what they can easily handle, and everything always goes smoothly for them.

So, does episode 2 suck? undoubtedly. But was it worse than episode 1? I would personally disagree, however it does come down to taste. I wouldn't say there is a right or wrong answer here because we are ultimately comparing two different kinds of shit. Everyone has their own personal hatreds, and mine is awful, stilted romantic/flirty dialogue.

Marinate1016 said:
I love the humour and comedic approach that the spin off takes. Even tho we know what happens already, it keeps things feeling fresh. Love the OP and ED.

malMaxi said:

That's in your mind. Plenty of viewers will see this show as their first experience with the subject matter. I am trying to treat it as such, too.

No reason to be burdened by the past. No reason to consider the authorial intent for the show, either. Every show ever can be viewed as a standalone work, and is best viewed that way, as far as i'm concerned.

malMaxi said:
I am sorry, but "objectively bad" is not going to fly with me. If you fancy yourself the anime pope, then Mother's Basement called, he wants his mitre back.

Let me tell you one thing that is objectively true about episode 1. It has other elements beside the series of date scenes. And the series of date scenes has a rather obvious objective relationship of tension with those other elements of episode 1. But you obviously were way too distracted by your own hatred of the portrayal of the relationship to pay attention.

If you want to talk objective things, get rid of the hate blinders first.

malMaxi said:

Nope, that's not. The lamest, laziest and most boring type of conflict in the action genre is the kind of abstract segregation we see in ep.2. Even the evil villain of the week needs to be at least somewhat uniquely designed, with special effort being put in specifically his presentations. The Blooms of ep.2 are basically copypaste uniforms with technicolor hair - no effort whatsoever.

Going by your later comments, you seem to have a thing for the topic of segregation in stories. The fact that the show exploits your particular topical fetish in ep.2 doesn't make the antagonists of ep.2 any less lazy or low-effort.

I can see how it would make them less boring for you. But they are actually more boring for me. Which tells us that "boring" is a rather poor way to approach objective evaluations.

malMaxi said:
So i take it that it is "male power fantasy" because Tatsuya is male? Would it be any different if he was an Onee-san instead of Onii-san, but otherwise completely identical?

Let's have a thought experiment :D. Imagine the entire cast of the show gender flipped. Miyuki is now a talented shota crushing hard on his ever-protective hypercompetent oneesan. The seito-kaichou pair are now attractive guys, one playful and one serious. Honoka is now another shota, who is all adorable and awkward. The Bloom group are all violent girl bullies high on their status, who want the miyuki shota for themselves, etc. etc.

Does anything at all change in terms of how that "power fantasy" plays out? Not as far as i can tell. But maybe you, who are more sensitive towards the whole "male" aspect of "power fantasy" can spot something different?

malMaxi said:
1) The parts that Tatsuya struggled with (what little of it was there in S1) had nothing to do with blooms or weeds. All antagonistic blooms were rather effortlessly put in their place, serving little more than fodder for establishing Tatsuya's powers.

2) You seem to confuse notions of "classism" with notions of "relationships within aristocracy". Tatsuya is not a member of a different class. I assume this isn't much of a spoiler to openly state that Tatsuya is among the highest ranking members of his society, a literal war trump card of his nation. In our world, he'd easily be something like a duke or a count (or a count's protege on account of his youth).

To begin with, the entire school is a school for high end families capable of wielding magic. Even "weed" people are all special people from special families in various ways. All of Tatsuya's friends are sons and daughters of high ranking officials and businessmen.

If Tatsuya was a literal magic-less protagonist, getting by in the world of nobles by sheer guile and grit, then you'd have a point. And i'd also love to see that show :D. But that show ain't Mahouka.

3) Mahouka is not "classist" in any shape, way or form. In fact, it rather sucks at portraying class struggles. In Mahouka, if you are magic-less and resisting, then you are Blanche - an utterly unsympathetic group of terrorists. That's as far as Mahouka goes in exploring the representatives of the actual oppressed.

malMaxi said:
As far as i'm concerned, the "writing world" can go to hell.

malMaxi said:
The reason i watch anime is because i have expectations. Once i lose expectations, i drop the series. I see you are different, but hey, maybe you're into mental self-torture or something. We all have our kinks :D

theGodde said:
you can view it as a standalone show if you want, but the fact is that it clearly isn't designed to be watched that way, otherwise even the incompetent idiots behind the mahouka production series would bother to reintroduce all the characters.
Not every show ever can be viewed as a standalone work. You don't watch Avengers Endgame without at least watching infinity war(and it's recommended you'd have watched at least the mainline MCU movies as well). Watching Endgame as your first marvel movie is just going to give you a subpar experience. Some shows just aren't designed to be watched that way, and like I stated before it's clear that this mahouka series can't be viewed as a standalone. It's going to be physically impossible to watch this as your first mahouka show and understand what's going on. Therefore, you can treat it like a standalone and hate it, or you can take it for what it is - a "season 1.1" - and the next episode won't hit you like a stack of bricks to the face.

I am an amateur writer, and I can tell you anyone who writes dialogue like Mahouka doesn't deserve to be called an author. Writing dialogue is a entire profession in and of itself. To explain in the most concise way I can, I'll highlight the most basic of writing concepts, known as subtext. Subtext refers to how we as humans don't usually ever say exactly what we mean. For example "I hate you" can be the subtext for a character walking up to someone and saying "hi how are you going" with a real sarcastic tone. If you took the dialogue at face value you wouldn't get the whole story. Now going back to mahouka, the dialogue is just bad. There is almost never any subtext, characters say exactly what they think, and it comes off feeling stilted and unnatural. The worst part however is romance, because romantic conversations always typically have the most subtext out of any kind of conversation. People never say exactly what they think because romance is such a touchy subject. As a writer, I can tell you that the dialogue of mahouka is objectively not good. Take that as you will.

episode 1 most certainly had other aspects other than the date scenes, such as the opening scene that's taken from the mainline season 1, and the villain - as well as Tatsuya's briefing. And despite what I said before, that's not to say that a "villain of the week" bad guy can't be done well. If he didn't laugh maniacally and constantly tell mayuki to pity him then he might have been a somewhat competent antagonist. However despite his sympathetic villain backstory, the guy is about as cliche evil as it gets. The fight choreography was also complete BS. At the start, mayuki is using her typical abilities, but then she just starts pulling random stuff we've never seen before - like where she grabs the little girl and the fire just disappears without any visible sign of mayuki's magic - almost as if the animators forgot to animate mayuki blocking the fire magic, and just made it randomly disappear without any visible sign as to why. Overall there is a chance that this episode was ruined for me because I came in with higher expectations than I should have. The animation art quality is looking a fair bit better than season 2 of mahouka was, so I assumed that perhaps the show might have changed directors or studio for this spinoff, and therefore there may be a chance this show would be an improvement over the mainline. However it took a whole episode for me to realise my expectations were clearly unfounded, and so when episode 2 came around I had already adjusted my expectations, and it didn't irritate me at all when the second episode proved to be (in terms of story pacing) a complete abomination.

It's not that I have a thing for segregation, but I am tired of seeing stories where the MC can just effortlessly fight their way out of something. I prefer conflicts where the MC has to face threats that they can't beat up, however that is just personal preference. I ain't gonna force my opinions any further because that's really all they are, opinions and preferences.

it's known as a male power fantasy because it contains elements mostly desirable to men. If you want to see a female power fantasy, then look at things like beauty and the beast, or as an anime comparison - the saint's magic power is omnipotent. In a typical female power fantasy, it's less about characters being physically overpowered, and more about romance and beauty and friendship all coming easily to the main protagonist. That isn't to say that only women like female power fantasies, and only men like male power fantasies, but more that this is how the two power fantasies are classified by critics and the industry. Using the words "male power fantasy", is just narrowing down the specific genre elements mahouka uses in its story. It's like writing shorthand.

Yes, the blooms are put in their place, but that doesn't in any way solve the underlying problem of their existence in the first place. Tatsuya doesn't immediately convert all the blooms to his viewpoint (until later lmao), and so therefore even though he is effortlessly solving all these situations, he is still failing to solve the bigger problem within the story.
now as for classism, it doesn't have to specifically refer to a long standing established social class, because you can have micro-classism as well -> that is classism that occurs only within a specific social circle (such as a school). The school itself operates through classism within the classism of the world. The segregation between "weeds" and "blooms" is a form of classism, however poorly represented.
either way, it's all pedantics.

just wanted to say there is a manga that is exactly this - it's called MASHLE and it's a comedy masterpiece on the level of mob psycho and one punch man. Would 100% recommend.

me: a writer
（ *ー*)

anyhow, this is quite the discussion that has formed, and over mahouka of all things lmao.