| Ok, so I know I'm joining the conversation late, and I'm aware I'm in the minority, but I just finished watching this anime and dammit, I need to rant. Long story short, I went from loving this anime to hating it. (I'd say from the moment the "villain" was introduced) Oh and spoilers I guess. So it started out as a really great thriller, with intriguing main characters who seemed to have a clear plan in mind which promised to have intricate and fascinating reasons behind it, and a good antagonist in the detective, who had his own backstory and reasons for going up against them. No real villains, no real heroes, grounded in reality, adult and subtle themes, it seemed to have everything. I was even willing to forgive the token female character, who didn't add anything to the story, because hey, I'm used to that type of trope in anime. But after the first few episodes focused on the two leads' plan and the detective's efforts to catch them, the story suddenly takes a sharp turn. We get introduced to a plank of wood with excessive makeup who's supposed to be intimidating because she randomly acts like a psychopath, and my instant question was "What anime is she from? Because she definitely doesn't belong in this story". But turns out, the story does a complete 180 and suddenly becomes about far-fetched human experimentations and genius kids (goodbye, grounded reality), a dumb romance subplot, and an even dumber "genius face-off" storyline that we've seen done better in a ton of other anime. The detective goes from leading the investigation to becoming an exposition plot device, we get a few throwaway exposition scenes to explain that all the two leads really wanted was revenge for what was done to them, then the ending pretty much makes all their previous actions completely useless (I mean, if all they wanted was attention, they would have gotten it with that atom bomb, all the other ones weren't necessary). Then they get killed off without any build-up or payoff, just because in "serious anime", the main characters have to die. Cross that off the checklist. Oh, and did I mention the sexism? Only two female characters: One is completely helpless, with barely any personality or agency, constantly gets in the way of the people she's trying to help, and ends being nothing but a plot device to add some artificial conflict in the leads' friendship. The other doesn't have any more personality, unless cliché psychopath female tropes like evil smiles and evil laughs count, has no motive or purpose in the story other than to be a villain for the good guys to defeat, but of course, in the end, her only reason for living at all is the one guy in her life. In that sense, this anime reminded me of Death Note, where the sexism was even worse, but at least they knew to focus on the investigation the whole way. Zankyou no Terror somehow thought that "token psychopath girl" would be gripping enough. I think the reason I'm so angry with this series is that I really thought I was in for a great show. If it hadn't started out so strong, I wouldn't have minded as much. It's the missed opportunity that really got to me, they could have had a masterpiece if they had kept going like those first few episodes. Disappointment hurts, I guess. ...whew, rant over. Um, sorry? |
| Personally I would have said the story didn't need any romance whatsoever, but that's just me >.> |
| I d give it 9/10 if not lisa and five didnt exist and i think that the way this anime ended was great. |
  you've taught me how to breathe again |
| just finished this show and glad to see someone else feels the same way, so much potential wasted because of poor characterization... |
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| Yeah, Five was the game-changer, but not really a good one. She was foreshadowed, at the very least (not all that well, but eh), but there should've been more to explain her own motives, because she didn't really have one outside of "I was abandoned", I guess. What were the headaches, again? Was it a psychic connection, or the side-effect of their experimentation? Twelve didn't suffer from them, only Nine and Five did. Now Twelve I think was being built up to being someone else, I suppose? Like he had a more sinister motive of his own, but they didn't go anywhere with that. Lisa I think had something going for her in terms of her family drama, but Nine was right in that she was just in the way, and Five was right in telling her she was stupid for going along with them. The relationship between her and Twelve was too soon, yeah, there needed to be more time for it. I will say that the anime at least has balls. Like it went places you don't really expect to see in anime, not back then, not even nowadays. The terrorism angle and the end-game was interesting and that's why it makes you want to keep going, but 11 episodes was a death sentence for an anime of this caliber. If the episodes were longer (like they were exactly 45 minutes like 24, which I'm thinking is the inspiration for this show? Reminded me a lot of it), maybe it could've worked. But... I'm glad I was finally able to get around to watching it, but I guess I waited five years too long. I probably would've enjoyed it better, or at least so I could've engaged in the discussion, and let the episodes sink in every week instead of just watching multiple episodes at a time. Which I think is what it was meant to be for, like it was meant to be a show you'd watch in one sitting instead of waiting for a week. Because when you sit on it and think about it for too long, it collapses in on itself like a tower. Even while waiting for a week, you psyche yourself up for these supposed "what if"s that end up not happening, so you get disappointed that you didn't "get it". It's sad, really. Least it made for a good piece of entertainment for a few hours with good music, some people are just okay with watching some good mind games action. |
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| I agree completely, this started so great but from the moment Five was introduced i said to myself: this psycho character is going to ruin this anime, and it turned out i was right, she was completely out of place like she was from another anime series, Lisa was another character i didn't like, why was she included in the plot? Just to have a lame pseudo love story between her and 12? At least the visuals and the music are great and while the ending was predictable i kinda liked it, i think it wraps everything up in a more or less satisfying way. |
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| Y'all who are hating on homegirl Lisa don't know jackshit. Only because you want a character that has to bring the same exact thing to the table like every other goddamn character in an anime. At the end of the day, it's all subjective. This is my two cents. |
"𝗘𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗮 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗰𝗮𝗻'𝘁 𝗳𝗶𝘅 𝗶𝗻𝘀𝗶𝗱𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗺. 𝗜𝘁 𝗱𝗼𝗲𝘀𝗻'𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗶𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗼𝗿 𝗯𝗮𝗱, 𝗼𝗿 𝗵𝗼𝘄 𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝘁𝗿𝘆. 𝗬𝗼𝘂 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗽 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘀𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱... 𝗔𝗻𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗹l 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱𝗻'𝘁 𝗯𝗲 𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗰𝘁 𝗼𝗿 𝗿𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗱𝘆 𝗶𝘁. 𝗔𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗰𝗮𝗻'𝘁 𝗳𝗶𝘅, 𝗶𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗰𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝗮 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗼𝗻'𝘀 𝗻𝗮𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲." |
jeemus said: Lisa was a contrast between the duo of 9 and 12, who were reliable and talented in what they do. She was also a character to bring about "instability" in the bond between 9 and 12, akin to a liability. In the end 12 developed feelings for her which became a weak link, and one that could be exploited for a better twist to the story. I think however people generally want this story to have a perfect cast of characters with perfect traits rather than have characters that are actually "human", that is, to show weakness, to fail at things, etc. 5 was also an interesting one, and her reason for living on and working with the Americans was to eventually find 9, while knowing that she didn't have long to live. People complain that it's too Hollywoodesque, but remember this is after all, an anime, not a Nat Geo documentary. I feel this was an amazing anime. Notice that your only description of Lisa and 5 is how they relate to the male characters. That's because they didn't have any character beyond that, their only purpose was to add dimension to the guys in the show. Which in the end, does a disservice to all characters - if you need a girl to make your male character seem important or interesting, you didn't write him very well and he's probably going to seem one-dimensional. And if your female character only lives for a guy, you take away all agency from her, which makes her dull as a brick. And that's a criticism I have for a lot of anime, even ones I really love (Mikasa from AoT or Hawkeye from FMA are good examples, "strong independent woman" characters who in the end only exist to make a guy seem more important). You can love a series and defend all its positive sides, while still acknowledging it has flaws :) |
RedJeanne said: Notice that your only description of Lisa and 5 is how they relate to the male characters. That's because they didn't have any character beyond that, their only purpose was to add dimension to the guys in the show. Which in the end, does a disservice to all characters - if you need a girl to make your male character seem important or interesting, you didn't write him very well and he's probably going to seem one-dimensional. And if your female character only lives for a guy, you take away all agency from her, which makes her dull as a brick. And that's a criticism I have for a lot of anime, even ones I really love (Mikasa from AoT or Hawkeye from FMA are good examples, "strong independent woman" characters who in the end only exist to make a guy seem more important). You can love a series and defend all its positive sides, while still acknowledging it has flaws :) You hit the nail on the head. People who like Lisa call her realistic and relatable because she went through bullying and her home life is bad, but a realistic character isn't necessarily also interesting to watch in a story. Like you said, Lisa is only defined through others. She doesn't have a notable personality, or goals, or agency. All she does is react to what others do. She doesn't progress at all on her own, just stands there until things happen to her or someone tells her to do something. She would be fine as a secondary character, but as a main character she has nothing to offer on her own. A good, well-written character doesn't need to be defined, at their core, through the actions of others. If you can only define a character in relation to another (and I agree with your point about Mikasa too), then they're not a character — they're a plot device. Lisa was too poorly written to be a character on her own. Five was too poorly written to be a believable antagonist (like you, I was under the impression that she was copy/pasted from another anime). |
| Maybe I'm just a weird one in this group but I really love this anime wholeheartedly from the good characters to the not-so-good characters, to Five, who was a really cheesy villain sometimes but still I felt she was necessary for the story. Yes Lisa was put in there just to be a plot point and just to get Twelve and Nine to actually do something good instead of being terrorists the whole series. In my eyes I think she help them see the time not all humans are bad although the detective did that as well at the end. I really enjoyed the bit of romance between Lisa and Twelve in the series it was like a breath of fresh air and all the attention that was going on before and after and the scene where Twelve had to Defuse The Bomb or it would kill them both because of how much he cared for Lisa that was a really interesting moment for me. Even though most of you think the show could have been done differently to be better, the writers had what they had in mind because they thought it was interesting it's all on you whether or not you hate it or like it. Personally for me it's up there at a 9 out of 10 because I enjoyed it despite the flaws and I took everything in stride. I probably read watch the show about 5 times and every time I find something new to enjoy and something new to hate though they don't overlap they coexist to help me enjoy the story. |
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