Sku_Te said: I've said it elsewhere, but no - she isn't in redeemable any respect. She's a psychopath, which isn't treatable. Besides, she chose her own path The best she could hope for is to be locked up somewhere. I agree in a sense , however being a murderer and a psychopath is not punishable if you do it for your government . If so , every veteran would be locked up somewhere. |
| I feel she's like that because of the childhood trauma, and because of the hints that the organisation she's working for brainwashed her. She's more of a tragic character than evil. |
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| Points people miss on why Nana does the killings the way she does: 1)She believes she's killing "sub-human filth". If you don't see enemies as human, but as pests, why should you care if they die instantly or slowly. In wars people always demonize their foes to feel less guilty when slaughtering them. It's the basics of "being human". Also, I didn't remember her actually feeling joy when killing her victims. She certainly feels 0 remorse though - but then again, how much guilt you feel when squashing an ant? It's not that hard to see why she kills so "easily", because she doesn't see the enemy as human! Nana is a professional who kills not to excite herself. No, it's more like - "nothing personal kid!" kind of way, as a professional hitman, not as a psycho killer. What she cares about is - getting the job done - not to "cut cute things" as the psycho in the end did. 2)Being at the bottom of the food chain. Nana is a "weakling". She's just a normal human - talentless. Apart from being "pests", the talented have an unfair advantage over her. Her empathy towards the talented is therefor understandably nonexistent. Imagine if pests could kill thousands of people in a single minute. You'd not CARE about feeling or remorse when given a chance to eliminate such threat! You'd feel a relief that there's one less "walking-nuke" around! Instead of empathy, you'd probably feel hate, or maybe even envy, that some as "lesser" as the talented-scum, have OP abilities, while you, and your fellow normie-humans don't. Doesn't it give an impression that normal humans are the bottom of the food-chain who depend of the good-will of the OP talented? 2)Brainwashing. If you're raised believing "Jews are bad", you will hardly see the world in a different shape. That's why I roll my eyes hard when people say how they'd not join the nazis if they happened to be living in Germany of that time. No my friends, you'd be happily singing Erica the moment you were drafted! Nana is brainwashed and certain that the talented are "walking nukes"/pests/sub-humans, ready to explode or bring nothing but misfortune to humanity. She was told this by her mentor. She suffered because of one of them. She has the "proof" in her cellphone - with kill-counts. She was trained for this. She didn't become a "psycho killer" in a day. She was brainwashed for years, probably. She has no reason to doubt her "Furher" who's a father-figure to her (probably) and taught her everything - taught her "the truth!". She believes she's doing humanity a service. Again, it's not that she's personally messed up. A lot of people around her are messed up and made her into a child-killer. Now some people can argue that people make their own choices. I say - bullshit! Take my Erica example again; if the society brainwashes you into believing that killing jews is normal, you won't magically turn into a modern snowflake who believes every human is special and shit. You'd believe what your friends and government tells you. Nana is one of such victims of manipulation. 3)Personal grudge. You can't just recruit a random person and "train" them to be cold-blooded child killers. Murder puts a huge mental stress on EVERY human. That's why Nazis had to resort to gas-chambers, because mobile killing squads were going insane with all the killings of unarmed civilians, including children. You need to have some mental problems to be perfectly stable when doing murder as profession. Nana happens to be this special case and it's understandable why she'd feel less stressed than a grow-ass human. She's killing children of her own age + she's not killing "weak, defenseless kids, but dangerous pests". Nana lost her parents in a gruesome way - got traumatized - her mentor used this as a sharpening tool to turn her into a vengeful spirit. Someone can argue that "but not all talented are bad", but yet again, if you're a victim you don't usually care too much about trivial things as "justice". If you're told that "a certain group/race of people are inherently evil" you won't busy yourself looking for exceptions and 1 good out of 99 bad. When you're told by a lot of people (apparently) that the talented are all evil, your hatred is "justified", "approved" and pretty much legalized. This way, you don't feel like you're doing something wrong, unjust, illegal. Now remove empathy and you have Nana. Nana could just keep crying or try living a normal life, but this is not such story - plain and simple. It's a story of Eren vs Titans. Why should Eren care about Titans? I mean, you're their victim, the enemy's bad, they're dangerous - and you believe you have skills to stop them from hurting others and can save the world. Would you not join the fight? Not all can, Eren and Nana could. Once again, think from Nana's perspective, not from a full-grown adult perspective from behind the monitor screen. Nana is a victim. Is she redeemable? - YES. Should she be forgiven her crimes? - No. A crime is a crime, but once again, it depends who makes the LAWS! If the human government secretly hates and kills the talented, does that make you - a person who kills humanities enemies - a villain? She did kill innocent people, but yet again it's US, VIEWERS who know that they didn't deserve death. Nana and many normal humans don't seem to see that in their world. Isn't it funny how people are jumping to conclusions and judging her as a cliché villainess? They can talk about how Nana is irredeemable psychopath, yet they do the same generalizations as she did, which is to believe that the talented can never be redeemed. Something that even someone as brainwashed as her finally learned is wrong. Never look at the world in black and white, people. |
| @Sku_Te Nana may be "brainwashed", but she has full control of her faculties, and could quite easily verify anything and everything. All it would take is the details to be leaked of the island and government plans to be leaked and everything could well come crashing down. Once again: She believes and is told that what she does is not wrong or illegal - instead it's for the benefit of humanity! Though, she should be secretive as the truth may very well result in a new war of talented vs talentless. Calling her a Nazi is ludicrous in my opinion. She's a perfect example of a victim, manipulated and used by actual Nazis to do their dirty work. She's a soldier who volunteered to fight for his nation, not a psycho who took arms to satisfy their bloodlust and kill innocents. |
Sku_Te said: Why shouldn't she be called a Nazi - after all, you stated that she saw Talented people as "sub-human" (Untermensch), which is precisely how Nazi's saw Jews and others Because she's not one. She was tricked/manipulated into becoming "one with the party". She's a soldier who volunteered to fight for his nation. She may have a swastika on her uniform, but that doesn't make her a Nazi. She didn't join the war because she wants to satisfy own bloodlust, it's for the greater good - as she was told. Her Nazi leaders told her the enemy is sub-human - given personal experiences, she has little room to doubt this. She was brainwashed into believing the enemy is not sub-human, hence why I wrote "she sees talented as sub-human" - she believes this, but this idea was put into her by the actual Nazis. Her trauma and age made the brainwashing possible. Hence, she's not a Nazi; she's their victim and so are the talented. |
Sku_Te said: Why disagree completely though? xD She was a kid when the brainwashing happened. There's a reason why justice system treats child criminals differently compared to adults. Children don't often make huge life-changing decisions such as joining the nazi party xD. Children are often influenced or lured by adults with "candy", in such suspicious establishments xD. Nana was traumatized so she was lured in Nazi party rather easily; the "candy" there was a promise of a world without talented people. I believe revenge has little to do here. She's more driven with the idea that she's doing an important task that will benefit the human world. She did "join" because they promised her she'd have an opportunity to save the world under disguise, but how could she know that being friends with Nazis is bad? Nazis own the world there, in disguise, of course. At the end of episode 12 Nana finally begins questioning that her Nazi leaders may not be trustworthy after all. I'm sure she'd not go full "hate all talented" mode if she wasn't brainwashed into believing that all the talented were bad.No, have to completely disagree there. She joined the war for revenge all right. She's a willing member - no matter the age, she's a fully paid up member, all too eager to serve too. Anyway - I think we'll agree to disagree You should also consider: 1) one of the talented supposedly killed Nana's parents. 2) talented did start a devastating war once. 3) talented are dangerous and unpredictable, especially kids who tend to be rebellious by default. 4) Nukes can be controlled. Talented are hard to control due to astonishing varieties of skills as time manipulation and so on. They're a HUGE threat. With all this above, it's not that hard to imagine why one would fall for anti-talented ideologies and see them in a similar light as Nazis saw sub-humans xD. I don't know why you'd be so biased against Nana xD Why is it hard to see that there was more manipulation in her joining, than her actually doing it on her own? In the last episode it was rather clear how her mentor used the fact the kid was under huge mental stress to use the opportunity and start the brainwashing. I'm not trying to make Nana seem an angel or innocent, but she's not a devil/nazi. She's manipulated and is talented in manipulating others. She's simply good at doing what she does. This tells you a lot about her mentor and how skilled he must be to have trainer her so well. P.S please use reply button or @ username. Otherwise it's impossible to check when you write back, unless I decide to check this specific forum myself. |
Sigmar-UnberogenDec 28, 2020 2:46 PM
| Nana is obviously being manipulated, is geniuenly convinced that Talented are evil, just following orders, clearly does not kills for fun and shows signs of doubt as series progresses, but still and most importantly, does not have a choice. It means she is redeemable. But it still depends on wether her classmates would have to say. |
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Sku_Te said: Piromysl said: Nana is obviously being manipulated, is geniuenly convinced that Talented are evil, just following orders, clearly does not kills for fun and shows signs of doubt as series progresses, but still and most importantly, does not have a choice. It means she is redeemable. But it still depends on wether her classmates would have to say. Hopefully they would give her a good kicking themselves Her classmates have shown throughout the series that they are dumb, so they might not realise that there is greater enemy and threat out there. And we still know to what extent Nana is manipulated. Her Superior was presented as rather generic evil mastermind villain, so I wouldn't be surprised that he took part in her parent's deaths and lied to her in order to motivate her. That's just speculation tho. |
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Sku_Te said: Piromysl said: Her classmates have shown throughout the series that they are dumb, so they might not realise that there is greater enemy and threat out there. And we still know to what extent Nana is manipulated. Her Superior was presented as rather generic evil mastermind villain, so I wouldn't be surprised that he took part in her parent's deaths and lied to her in order to motivate her. That's just speculation tho. Well, that was kinda obvious. And yes, it actually does partially absolve her, but it still depends on her actions after she finds the truth. Trust me, I have seen plenty of those "villains changing sides" tropes. But when in Symphogear a vampire cunt who murdered 100k innocent people for simple amusement, then laughed about it, was forgiven by one of the worst written Mary Sue-chan like she is even in position to, then I think Nana is rather redeemable in comparison. |
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| This is a hard one to call on. While yes killing is bad, she is under the idea that people with talent are evil and will become eviler. While I don't think she is a psychopath, as she doesn't have them suffer and kills pretty quickly, maybe she can change if she finds something out. Like, what if her parents were killed by the people who sent her? |
| @Sku_Te message=61530732] one of the talented supposedly killed Nana's parents. Something similar has happened to many, many people - they don't all go on a genocidal rampage. - Dude, you sound like a fanatic of some sort. I have a strong impression like Nana offends you personally or something; or maybe you knew someone similar? Geocidal rampage? Really? She didn't commit genocide. what's with exaggerations? She did not go on a rampage even. What's with all the bias caused by obvious hate, I wonder. And what's with those ridiculous "explanations". Sorry for saying it this way...Yes, as I mentioned earlier, some victims go cry themselves to sleep. Nana chose to fight. Why does it even matter that some people don't go on murder spree and some do in this case. Nana is a victim who's being manipulated/brainwashed - that's what we were discussing. Don't make it something global! talented did start a devastating war once. All countries do. They get over and come to some amicable agreement. What are we discussing even? You missed the point completely or purposefully, i don't know. Once again, I used the example to "why manipulating Nana was made possible and why she took the bait" What's with global nonsense. This is completely off topic man! Talented and talentless did come to some amicable agreement once, so??? talented are dangerous and unpredictable, especially kids who tend to be rebellious by default. So are people with cars. But cars are only banned for those who cause problems and those that kill anyone are jailed. Unless, of course, they manage to kill themselves as well Sorry, I'm just skipping this. I don't know where this quote came from.Talented are hard to control due to astonishing varieties of skills as time manipulation and so on It would have far, far easier to find out what causes the talent and then repress it or remove it. Congratulations! I'm sure that's a reasonable thing to do. But then again, Nazis are in control of this fictional world, who want the talented eliminated. And they use/manipulate skilled people like Nana as their weapon.Considering Nana is so good at manipulation (it doesn't usually need to be taught) - especially for a psychopath - it's surprising she didn't notice - or she didn't care. Also, yes, it doesn't usually need to be taught, but we're talking about Nana specifically, right? not psychopaths in general! Is it so hard for you to accept that adults can easily manipulate kids? Especially if adults are f-ing Nazis?! Dude, I'm trying my best to explain everything, but you keep replying only to like 5-10% of what I said, and even then the replies are usually out of context... (-_-)/ |
Sku_Te said: *rolls eyes* and you felt there was a need to define to me the word "genocide". If you call this a discussion, than I may very well consider you to be a troll. Sorry but I guess I was basically talking to a brick wall. Bye, I guess... Genocide : Genocide is the intentional action to destroy a people—usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group—in whole or in part. Anyway, we'll end the discussion here P.S try googling "Serial killer". |
Sku_Te said: The only obvious thing here is you're incapable of having a conversation mate. Well, you obviously didn't know what it meant, so I was explaining it for you. Anyway, goodbye ! |
Sku_Te said: The point is, you'd rather learn how to have a proper conversation first, before having an audacity to "lecture" others; as if they need lectures from a "brick wall".What would the point be, mate ? And use the goddamn reply button, or, do you purposefully write default-mode, hoping the respondent may actually forget having this "conversation"? You do realize people don't magically feel they need to check forums every time you write a comment addressed at them, right? |
| She has potential to redeem herself, as seen from the moment she thought would she have spared Yuuka if she was innocent up until the last episode, but will she really? It's too early to tell as we only started to learn more about the world with the introduction of Tachibana Jin. It all sums up to the moment when she realizes that she has been used. If at that moment she doesn't end up feeling in need to redeem herself then I doubt she ever will. |
| Noir… It is the name of an ancient fate. Two sisters who watch anime. The peace of the newly born, their black hands protect. |
Sku_Te said: Seitaro11 said: I feel she's like that because of the childhood trauma, and because of the hints that the organisation she's working for brainwashed her. She's more of a tragic character than evil. So they all deserve to die then ? She is fully in control of her actions (not like something from The Manchurian Candidate), so she certainly knows what's she doing and could have stopped at any time She's not the real villain in this show. The government that's manipulating her is. She truly believes that what she's doing is correct, that the talented are evil, as she's still under the impression that talented killed her parents. Although the last few episodes were more like a wake-up call for her. Also to specify, I didn't read the manga. I'm only analising the information that were provided in the anime |
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