Hibike! Euphonium 2 Episode 11 Discussion

What did you think of this episode?

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Dec 22, 2016 4:20 PM

#101

kitten320

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Sep 2009

645

TitanAnteus said:

kitten320 said:
^What are you talking about? Talking to a childhood friend in bored voice is very romantic.

Honestly, much rather have team winning ending than half assed romance. An ending that this series was meant to have since it's about music band.

NOW you say that. Of all the times now is when... you know what nvm.

Now? This is my first time posting in this season thread.
And I always said same thing.

Don't yuri bait. Want to have hetero romance, then actually spend time to develop it and make it believable. Don't make main girl cringe every time she sees the guy during 2 seasons without stop and then suddenly go "Oh, actually I love you!" bull-crap. Thankfully that did not happen yet. But then again I much rather watch Kumiko/Shuuichi than Reina/Taki that came completely out of nowhere back in season 1.

Just forget about Reina/Kumiko and focus on Kumiko/Shuuichi from a get go. But no. Kyoani wants money and yuri sells. So they spend all of the time yuri baiting, making Kumiko/Reina friendship look as gay as possible only to say nah in the end.

Worst thing, this series doesn't even have romance tag on it so why is it even main theme of the series? They should have spent more time on actual music competition and preparations instead of baiting.

If Kyoani did not bait from the start and followed it's own tag, there wouldn't be so many displeased yuri fans.

Kyoani brought it upon itself for using cheap tricks to get attention and money.

Dec 22, 2016 6:52 PM

#102

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564054

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
[...]Think about it. It's all a matter of perspective. It's good to learn about your own train of thought.

I'm well aware of that and my apologies for using at times hyperbolic language to make a point but - that was also the point. "Almost criminal"? Is that the best way to describe deliberately ambiguous situations?

The character of Taki-sensei is cast in a role. A role a woman is quite capable of doing herself. That is at the very core of the argument and the series. That is how he is introduced at the start of the first season when Offenbach’s satirical music starts playing. Taki-sensei’s very existence in the series is predicated on the death of his wife.

She is literally killed off to make him look like a better person. The prince in shining armour riding in on his white steed to save all these little water nymphs from the ineffective female advisors who’ve taken over his father’s concert band. That is what is revealed to us as we neared the end of Kumiko’s time in the rain during the school festival episode. A feast of food and drink turned into tragedy by the end of it. Kumiko the girl who likes the rain braves a typhoon by herself to get out of her haunted house. The foolish girl has another one of her damsel in distress moments after she runs into him. Taki-sensei shows up and his exposition takes place inside his three horse carriage with which he -prince charming- escorts the silly maiden back to her father’s castle after the umbrella - a flimsy device to keep the little nymph out of the water she adores - succumbs to the force of the storm.

Taki, we are told inside his shaking and not very sturdy classic carriage, yet it keeps them both dry, is living a woman’s dream. A woman with a dream and a life of her own before she met him but whose only appearance is literally a flat portrayal, a photograph he carries with him, and in that role she is nothing more than a prop for her husband’s improvement. Tragic Orpheus whose un-named Euridice went to the other side of the river. His wife, the happy, happy girl who thought she was strong but suddenly died - and thus another woman who turned out to be too weak to do the job herself. That’s what we are told in a different episode.

What does Reina say this episode? “I can’t believe how weak I am” or words to that effect.

In one of your previous comments you swing between two positions. The writers aren’t required to mimic reality in every aspect, you suggested. You are of course correct. But, you also used reality as the reason why you would have considered it unrealistic for Taki’s wife to live and fulfil the role of band director herself.

The wall of disparity is real, you said. This series is the perfect opportunity to raise these issues and knock them down. With once again apologies for the somewhat hyperbolic language. I hope I haven't distorted your positions too badly in the process of trying to raise these points. The series isn't over but I think these aren't bad discussions to have along the way, without the need to burn any bridges to get to the positions we desire. True equality.

removed-userDec 22, 2016 8:47 PM

Dec 23, 2016 2:14 AM

#103

Ysad_Ziwezhan

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Apr 2016

767

kitten320 said:

Just forget about Reina/Kumiko and focus on Kumiko/Shuuichi from a get go. But no. Kyoani wants money and yuri sells. So they spend all of the time yuri baiting, making Kumiko/Reina friendship look as gay as possible only to say nah in the end.

That's your distorted perception.

Worst thing, this series doesn't even have romance tag on it so why is it even main theme of the series? They should have spent more time on actual music competition and preparations instead of baiting.

Romance is far from being the main theme of this show, it's just you and others who only look at that and forget thar 90% of the show is about human relationships (friendship mostly), band dynamic and the growth of the MC.

If Kyoani did not bait from the start and followed it's own tag, there wouldn't be so many displeased yuri fans.

With yuri goggles you see yuri everywhere anyway.

Kyoani brought it upon itself for using cheap tricks to get attention and money.

Maybe.

I watch the first season without reading any forum.

I never saw the yuri thing, I just discovered that it was a thing as I began to read here. So maybe I am too "hetero-normative" in the way I think or maybe there was no yuri to begin with, just a beautiful friendship.

Dec 26, 2016 4:39 AM

#104

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564054

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:

VersoSciolto said:

"They have no voice in this series"

Yep and that's ok. The whole anime industry is not supposed to address this (sad and real) issue in every show if they don't want to. Neither must the novelist.

I'm really amazed how you go from the novelist's not so groundbreaking idea of a "juvenile" crush toward an adult to think about the rape problematic in our society. That's fabulous.

Do you think the authors of the Hibike! novels and the animation series might have been aware of Murasaki no Ue and if so if they might perhaps have been influenced by her role in Genji's life when they constructed Reina's relationship with Taki-sensei? Beg your pardon if that is once again a silly question and an unwarranted leap...

Dec 27, 2016 4:05 PM

#105

weebchu

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Oct 2013

Kumiko plays for her sister.
Taki teaches for his late wife.
Reina plays for Taki.
Just like in the earlier episode when (character whose name I forgot) played for (character whose name I forgot)
And Asuka for her dad

weebchuDec 27, 2016 4:29 PM

Dec 27, 2016 7:42 PM

#106

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564054

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
...

… but I arrive at the positions I take precisely because I do consider the context.

Mrs. Tanaka and Mr. Oumae may seemingly present the same scenario for their daughters but it is on closer inspection that the differences become apparent and the comparison becomes interesting.

In close up, slapping your daughter in public may still seem less harsh of a treatment than excommunicating your daughter by kicking her out onto the street but the circumstances matter. The historical differences matter. These include the way women and men lived in previous generations before we arrive at these moments. The way they each were allowed to live. The way their own lives are presented matters as well. Mrs. Tanaka and Mr. Oumae don’t arrive as equals at these decisive moments. After voting rights, the right of access to equal opportunity education is perhaps the most desired goal of equality movements, of historical women’s rights advocacy groups.

In both cases it also matters how each daughter treats the prospect of a university education. In essence, both Mamiko and Asuka treat getting a university education as something undesirable. Reinforced by the way Reina’s advanced / college preparation classroom is treated. Something different about the atmosphere. Smart kids are scary. Mamiko, Asuka and Reina are all ungrateful daughters and the place where the smart kids study to enter academia is the location of the haunted house. The classroom of the smart kids is the labyrinth of horrors in what was supposedly the most light hearted segment of the series. The first half of the school festival episode. In which Asuka played the oracle, the dispenser of obake curses.

Is it really a coincidence that Reina is shown as one of the scariest young women throughout the series? Almost as unhinged as Asuka’s mother but younger. Reina directs the actual physical violence at herself although she does issue threats of violence and even death to Kumiko, in their most romantically charged moments no less. Unapologetically ambitious Reina.

Kumiko the staunch defendant of her parents position in her raging verbal battles with Mamiko. Mamiko whose father voluntarily offers an all expenses paid university education. She rejects it and thereby him. Mamiko may have inspired Kumiko to become a musician but Mamiko is not positively portrayed as a female role model. Despite his seemingly harsh treatment by shunning her, the father still comes off as the more supportive of female advancement. Although he is male he tries to give his daughter what feminists have demanded for generations. She rejects him and their advocacy on her behalf. Poor dad. Daughters don’t really want a university degree after all. You tried pops and with your hard earned money no less but there is just no pleasing daughters. But there is Aoi... at times almost forgotten but always cleverly placed. And how does Mamiko try to please her father, her parents? How does she start the process of reconciliation? By shopping for groceries and trying but failing to prepare a meal? Is it not precisely the context of this series and these events which should make us question this?

Asuka’s single mother lives in an ancestral home. A roof she didn’t build for herself but the beneficiary of the labours of her ancestors, unlikely to have been single mothers themselves given the pairs of photos on the wall. What does Asuka imply with her words to Gotou in the hallway after she returns to practice? After her mother had used force in public to make Asuka focus more on her studies? Force to which Asuka appears to be accustomed.

Don't let my questions fool you. I can see the other perspectives just fine even when I challenge others to justify their positions but have you really looked at this series from the alternate camera angles I’ve suggested? Though you criticise me for ignoring what I supposedly prefer not to see, I don’t think you’ve really addressed my questions either and you have been rather off-hand dismissive of several proposed scenarios while at times presuming to speak for me. All on the pretext that you are doing so for my own good. The wrong impression?

removed-userDec 27, 2016 8:16 PM

Dec 28, 2016 2:02 AM

#107

Ysad_Ziwezhan

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Apr 2016

767

@VersoSciolto

Your reasoning is biased and you're not aware of it. I tried to help you, but the thinking process must be done by you. I gave you hints, you didn't grab them. Too soon? Too young? You don't seem able to understand yet and indeed you can't progress in only few days. That's ok. Everybody needs time to improve.

Ganbatte kudasai :)

Dec 28, 2016 8:05 PM

#108

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564054

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
Your reasoning is biased and you're not aware of it.

I've already identified the source of my bias a number of times.

VersoSciolto said:
2/3 of high school girls surveyed indicate having experienced groping during their daily commutes to and from school with trains and bicycle parking areas identified as the places most commonly targeted. In those cases the perpetrators are more commonly but not exclusively strangers.

At some point mid show, “Your fly is open” was used as a joke to a male student but that skirt length is no joking matter was made clear to the members of the Kitauji high school concert band right from the start. It is the first thing we see high school age Kumiko do -even before she touches her breasts- in front of the mirror before heading out for her first day at school. It is the first thing the interim club advisor - their home room teacher- tells the female high school students not to. Proper young ladies don’t roll up their skirts.[...]

I've identified sources of my bias and Shuuichi's first scene is one of the other moments in the series which put me on alert because it looked like the start of a familiar scenario.

My bias is informed by being somewhat familiar with the bias in Japanese society. Where Japanese mothers are known to be prone to be overindulgent with their sons. Where daughters are still routinely treated as secondary citizens in their own homes. It comes from rolling up skirts and getting scolded for it. It comes from anecdotes told me by adult Japanese women. Like this one: "I came home tired from school one day and fell asleep on the couch in my uniform. I woke up when I felt a hand under my skirt and cried out. My brother was touching me down there and when my mother noticed what was going on, alerted by my shout she proceeded to scold me. Why was I asleep on the couch in my skirt!! Stupid girl!! Wait what? He touched me under my skirt and that is my fault? Forget it. I couldn't. Asked years later why the mother had not scolded the son, the mother replied that it would have been too embarrassing for the boy to be scolded in front of a girl. Too embarrassing for him!" When I pressed the issue I was once again told to drop it. Long time ago don't get hung up such a triviality. Grow up already" One anecdote. Can you believe it?

You can, but you'll probably assert that there is no connection between the anecdote or the statistics and this series. Or tell me that you already know these things. Just the way they are. Accurately depicted like that first scene with Shuuichi on the bench. Boys will be boys. Get over it. Forgive him for doing it. Date him, even. He's a nice boy. He did nothing wrong. Yes, Shuuichi did do something wrong and that wasn't the last time Shuuichi did something wrong either.

Kumiko's first scene as a high school girl. In front of the mirror raising her skirt before she heads for the trains. When she gets to school she is told to lower it. Something is missing from that scenario. Not a word addressed to the boys.

My bias comes from not being content with letting such scenarios unfold. It comes from being annoyed when high school girls are told to lower their skirts but high school boys aren't told to keep their hands from reaching underneath them. Unless invited. It comes from the realisation that nothing will change here unless such attitudes are rectified before we get into such situations.

This not a lecture ever wasted because it is still a discrepancy all too prevalent. What could have happened isn't shown. What is shown is what might still be considered the cause.

Every society needs to improve too and this is not a bad place to improve on.
Ganbarimasu!!

removed-userDec 28, 2016 8:56 PM

Jan 6, 2017 6:27 PM

#109

Kitsu-nee

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May 2010

6698

So, Kumiko's and Reina's "fight" got resolved a lot quicker than I thought it would, so that's nice I still don't get why Kumiko didn't just tell it right away, but whatever.

This ep had some really beautiful shots, and young Reina was suuuch a cutie :3 Her seiyuu should have changed her voice just a little bit more though, sounded exactly the same like her high school self to me.

Jan 9, 2017 1:16 PM

#110

Nanashi

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Apr 2014

1133

seriously I don't know what to say. Reina wtf...

Why can't she just let it go? No. She even had to look for the wife's grave >.< so irritating. Leave him at least some privacy.

AWC '23
AWC '24 - ongoing

Jan 23, 2017 8:00 PM

#111

mintkat

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Jan 2016

407

I never found this plot line interesting and am just glad Reina finally seems to be moving on.

The strong bond between Asuka and Kumiko now is really sweet.

Jan 24, 2017 6:38 PM

#112

RafaelDeJongh

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May 2012

25828

Another great episode, with two episodes left I really do wonder what these episode will have to offer!

Will we get a season 3 perhaps?

Jan 27, 2017 3:50 AM

#113

nickehhhhhh

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Mar 2015

6993

I can't decide between Reina and Asuka for best girl

I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats.

Jan 27, 2017 3:57 AM

#114

grandy_UiD

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Jun 2009

5404

chekrdnickrs said:
I can't decide between Reina and Asuka for best girl

That's because the correct answer is Kumiko :P

Jan 28, 2017 11:48 AM

#115

bittersweetlove

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Jul 2009

4805

Reina was adorable as a child, so she feel in love with Taki at first sight huh?
Kumiko you missed you chance to tell Reina that she doesn't need Taki, coz she have you!!!

Apr 25, 2017 5:00 PM

#116

LeeTailor

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Jun 2013

1245

While I am rooting for Reina to get the gold, I still don't see her feelings to ever be reciprocated. For one, she's been in love with him since she was a child, ostensibly. This implies that this crush, while powerful, intense and almost all-consuming, is ultimately a remnant of the past, of her childhood. That's why I don't expect her to just snap out of it. The only way I think I can believe that she's "getting over it", is if she's confronted by the reality (e.g. she asks Taki out and he rejects her) and allows herself to mourn this loss. Whether this happens in the show or not, I don't want to see a mere middle ground. Go big or go home, Hibike (at least if only in this aspect).

@shanimebib

I've read some of your comments in this thread and you brough up some interesting points, espcially about Kumiko's personality. And yet again, I have to disagree about Shuuichi in the anime. Whether it's true or not, that Kumiko has feelings for him and just doesn't want to admit it, to me he is still an utterly boring character with barely any presence. Using the word of the author and the novels for your interpretation is totally fine, I just don't agree that it's the only valid way, and I personally want to let the anime speak for itself. Often the people you assume to "fail to understand" the show you love might just choose to interpret it differently.

I also think it's kind of odd that you implied that Reina being in a relationship with a guy who is more than twice her age is somehow more reasonable than a relationship between her and Kumiko. I'm not saying that a considerable age gap is necessarily a deal breaker (if both parties are adults), but to me it seems a lot less likely to work out. And I admit I'm a little wary to imagine how Taki could consider a girl less than half his age, and whom he's known ever since she was a child, as a potential romantic partner.

@VersoSciolto

I think you raised some good points, too. I agree that this show brings up a lot of unfortunate implications. And I also think that it can be useful to discuss these issues, and that it's possible to do so while also celebrating all the good things about a show and recognizing its strengths.

On realism: It is totally fine that the show doesn't advocate for some feminist utopia where the girls get everything handed to them; that would be terribly boring and unfortunate by itself. Realism is not the issue. I just think it seems like the show is more than content with the social status quo, which is not an uplifting thought. Again, it's true that this happens in tons of other works, too. And I think that appealing to realism counts with slice of life only as much as with any other genre. There are plenty of slice of life shows that aren't "realistic", so this is a poor argument.

LeeTailorApr 25, 2017 7:24 PM

Oct 19, 2017 5:32 AM

#117

Vhailor

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Feb 2014

3785

You'd think this would clear the way for the Kumiko x Reina ship to sail.....
I like how Kumiko and Reina are so close and understand each other so well that their "fight" got resolved instantly without any drama.

Nov 3, 2017 1:58 PM

#118

lihle808

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Oct 2015

6916

That Reina girl got it bad for sensei even visiting his wife's grave and promising to win gold for sensei. To tell they wouldn't be good match, he is old, has too much baggage and a teacher plus most of all he still hung up on the dead wife.

How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove

May 23, 2018 2:49 PM

#119

FMmatron

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Nov 2016

32009

Ah,almost expected it that Taki sensei is doing it for his late wife. Please get gold!!!!

One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron

Mar 4, 2019 2:22 AM

#120

Courtney__

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Oct 2017

132

Reina was upset with Kumiko for not saying anything about Taki’s wife. Man this girl has fallen so hard for him lol.
It was cool to see how she met Taki too. After saying what he said to her, I probably would’ve fallen for him too lol.
Kumiko and Reina visit Taki’s wife’s grave and vow to win gold at the nationals.

Jun 22, 2019 7:02 PM

#121

Syureria

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Feb 2018

27110

Reina seems to have been sincere with her love.

Dec 26, 2019 11:11 AM

#122

Gator

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Apr 2013

37081

That was a pretty dumb reason from Reina for being mad at Kumiko, at least it was resolved quite quickly. Now they can finally concentrate on the Nationals in the last two episodes.

Apr 7, 2020 11:20 PM

#123

Shikkakku

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Feb 2019

2648

So my guess was right, she was mad because Kumiko didn't tell her.

Taki-sensei really did and still does love his wife.

I see Reina is taking this in a more mature way. I half-expected her to be all jealous and envious of his late wife (which wouldn't make sense logically, but that can happen). But instead, she's working hard for Taki-sensei's dream, which in turn is his late wife's dream. She even visited her grave and told her that she will work hard so that Taki-sensei can achieve that dream.

Does she play for herself? Or for Taki-sensei? I'm thinking both. It's not exclusive. She didn't start playing the trumpet because she met Taki-sensei, but Taki-sensei is a big part of her relationship with music. And it's no problem either if she does it for Taki-sensei. That just goes to show how she expresses her love.

Reina asking Taki-sensei about his late wife surprised me though. What bothered me was that she answered yes when Taki-sensei said did you find out from Kumiko which isn't completely false but she didn't exactly choose to tell her, since she already knew. Kumiko only told her that his wife isn't around anymore. I hope Taki-sensei doesn't see Kumiko as someone who can't be trusted with things or a gossip. More context would've been nice, Reina, or Kumiko could've explained it a bit more. Though I guess Taki-sensei might hear later from both Hashimoto-sensei and Niiyama-sensei (poor her though having to tell Reina where the grave is).

Looks like we're headed towards Nationals!

Sep 7, 2020 3:21 AM

#124

Unkrowned

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Jul 2015

9999

Gotta thank the great friend Hashimoto-chan for some progression by leaking Taki's private life and letting Kousaka know Kumiko already knew about Taki's wife. Well good thing Kousaka came to terms with it, I hope she doesn't struggle too much getting over her first love because I don't see Taki-sensei (who's around 34 years old so twice her age) accept her love.

Oct 29, 2020 12:52 AM

#125

BetaMaleUltra

scientia exitus

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Mar 2020

6044

yeah you go girl you get that muh fking gold baby

NYANPASU

whiskey tango foxtrot

Aug 3, 2021 6:22 AM

#126

Hesmiyu

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Feb 2019

556

Its fun reading these comments of people trying to scrape together that their is some semblance of hope for them to get together, or at least trying to make out they're not straight.

I for one am glad.

The line below is True.
The line above is False.

Sep 29, 2022 2:18 AM

#127

Ashhk

Shalltear

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Apr 2018

34575

Seriously this is creepy how obsessed Reina is with the teacher, even trying to know as much as possible about his deceased wife and going to her grave...

Jan 11, 2023 6:25 PM

#128

emma162

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Jan 2021

Young Reina was sooo cute! We really got to see the intensity of her feelings towards Taki huh? It's great to see how much she want to do for him and his dreams and the respect that she has for his wife. I love her so much

Apr 26, 2023 1:09 AM

#129

TheAquilaSamurai

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Mar 2016

447

I'm glad Reina was able to move forward. Hopefully learning about how much he cared for his late wife is enough of a trigger for her to realise she needs to put the childhood crush she's held for years aside and aim high.
It's nice because the way it went showed growth. Yes she got upset, and may have been rather blunt in her prying, but she's willing to help Taki fulfill his wish as a way to move on instead of crashing out and clinging to feelings that reciprocated.

Aug 26, 2023 12:59 PM

#130

Softhenic03

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May 2020

11554

I'll be honest, Reina visiting Taki's wife grave along with Kumiko(not to blame her as she was simply asked to tag along) has to be one of the most weirdest things I've ever seen in any anime.. like jesus what the literal fuck??? Why you would visit the grave of his wife whose existence wasn't even known to you like a week ago??? Just why???

I was taking this affection thing as a small little joke for this whole time, but god Reina is harmfully obsessed.

Feb 26, 5:45 AM

#131

RioFS

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May 2021

59839

Honestly, among all the characters accused of trying to behave like an adult, I feel like Reina might be the most mature one of them. Of course, this is only with regards to how she resolved things quicker and took it out by shouting but still.

Mar 24, 9:21 AM

#132

Uguu_Tsukimiya

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May 2015

1509

One of the best feelings episode. Reina is really the most emotionnal character.

Mar 25, 10:44 AM

#133

teraphIl1000

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Mar 2018

487

Reina really just went there, huh? She's such a strong presence. For a moment, I thought she might be taking Kumiko up the mountain to get rid of her. XD

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