[RANT] The Zeta -> ZZ Transition...

Oct 4, 2018 9:13 AM

Offline

Mar 2018

Is fucking awful and I need to rant about just how bad ZZ actually is because I don't think the community does a good enough job of making this clear to people going in. Hopefully any other intrepid UC explorers can read this and know going in what I didn't so that they can at least prepare themselves. In the interest of that this rant is going to contain as few spoilers (even for Zeta and 0079) as possible. Now onto the rant.

You often come across this sentiment that the first half of ZZ is underwhelming, shits on the end of Zeta and so on in that vein. This is all true but just saying something like "it underwhelms" or "it's bad" doesn't do the degree to which it's bad justice - ZZ is outright unwatchable and if you'll follow along my personal journey for a bit then hopefully you'll get a sense for the magnitude of what this statement represents.

If you're like me then when you decided to watch (UC) Gundam you thought "I'll go in release order and that way I'll get the story as it's meant to be told" and for the first 100 episodes (or 3 movies and 50 episodes) that works perfectly fine. It's great even; Zeta is consistently enjoyable and builds in a really cool way on the original 0079 series/trilogy of summary films. For the record I watched the later - it means that I missed some of the cool stuff in the original series (or so I've been told) but in exchange I get to skip some of the less cool stuff and I get some slightly (I stress slightly) updated bits of animation.

It's important to take a step back here and critically examine what it actually means to watch it in this order. Why? Because 0079 is in its own way barely watchable; it's very confusing being dropped into this radically different Sci-fi world and the animation is about what you'd expect from a 50 episode long tv show from late 70s era Japan. Even though I watched the trilogy of films that just means that I had to sit through seven hours of questionable animation instead of fifteen. So I've been through the wars so to speak - I know what dated Gundam looks like and ZZ is not that kind of unwatchable. All through 0079 I complained to the person I was watching it with but I still felt deep down that the dated animation and initially confusing plot were trying to do something deeper. It's incredibly obvious when you watch 0079 that something special shines through the dust and cobwebs and you're hooked, ready for what will come next. What will come next is of course the critically acclaimed Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam.

Zeta is fucking great. That's about all there is to say about it without delving deeply into spoilers. Suffice to say that it takes the themes that 0079 introduces and elevates them to new heights with both a raft of new characters and the evolution of all our favourite older ones. After 50 episodes of Zeta I began to live in the world with Kamille and Fa to a much greater extent than I ever did with Amuro and Fraw Bo - what makes Zeta so great then is that Amuro and Fraw Bo and Char and Captain Bright all come back. They're not just static relics from the previous series they keep developing through Zeta as well and that's something you don't necessarily see too often with sequel series that aren't about these older characters any more. Zeta takes to the juggling act of having viewpoint characters for each side in the four sided war that is Zeta's backdrop with aplomb. I can't say enough about how good Zeta is and that makes the slide in quality going into ZZ that much more heartbreaking.

Looking back I can't imagine what people thought in the 80s watching ZZ. I have to assume that they felt like I currently do (having just watched episode 4 (really episode 5 because episode 1 is a clipshow) of ZZ). Betrayed. Punched in the guy by a setting they'd come to live in and characters they'd come to love. Because it really is a gut punch. That rapid realisation that what you're watching is no longer Gundam but some cheap imitation thrown together to profit on your love of the series. It's like a star wars Prequel in that way.

But I've waxed vaguely about how bad it feels enough, let's talk specifics. What about ZZ is so bad? I think it boils down to a few key aspects:

1. Setting - the characters and space polities at the end of Zeta have not truly completed their stories, so you're essentially baited into watching ZZ with the expectation that you're going to get the continuation of that struggle. This is not the case.
2. Tone - the tone at the end of Zeta is bleak yet there's still some small hope for the future. The tone at the start of ZZ is overtly comedic if not borderline absurdist.
3. Continuity - technically I can't know for sure that anything in ZZ matters but I have a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach that it does. I just know that I won't be able to skip this series and go to the next entry without regretting it in some way.

The collision of these three major, major flaws produces a miserable viewing experience that leaves me unsatisfied on almost every level. To a degree here I'm being hyperbolic. The first three episodes are mostly just ominous and don't seem to bode well for the future of the franchise but there's nothing that stands out as offensively bad in them. That's just it though, they're ominous when you watch them but in retrospect they take on the spectre of episode four (and presumably episode five and six and so on up till at least (so my reading suggests) episode nineteen). Good God episode four...

Episode four is where you first truly realise that you'll be stuck in Shangri-La (a space colony) for awhile. There's not going to be any of the running battles of Zeta - no you're stuck in this rotating cylinder in space. Up till this point you have some hope - it seems like any episode now the Zeta Gundam and the Argarma will get repaired and make their escape from Shangri-La with a new hotshot pilot (Judau) in tow. Episode four harshly disabuses you of this notion.

We're introduced to this fat oaf piloting a new mobile suit that is alternatively defeated by school children and then himself. When I say defeated by school children I mean that he was within the mobile suit versus school children on foot and he lost. He's bad.

We're shown that Fa doesn't know how to pilot a mobile suit at all despite half a series of character development and her learning to do precisely that. Keep in mind that maybe a few weeks or at best months ago in universe Fa was in the final battle of the Gryps conflict - a battle that featured dozens if not hundreds of mobile suits for the three different sides fighting in that battle and where she personally served with some level of distinction. That's bad.

ZZ continues to abuse and humiliate what seems to be the new main villain it's introduced (Mashmyre Cello). That's bad.

The plot seems to be making no progress at all. That's bad.

To cap off what is by far the worst episode of the entire franchise up to that point at the end of the episode Gotton (Mashmyre's second in command) turns to him and says "We have some experimental suits we can test." Implicitly letting you know that next episode is also going to be set in Shangri-La, and probably the episode after that and the one after that as well. That's bad.

The recurring gimmick of Shangri-La where mobile suit cockpit hatches refuse to close forcing people to fight with them open continues to recur. That's bad.

Judau and his friends have now completely stolen the spotlight from the remnants of Zeta's cast which in turn is getting humiliated at seemingly every turn. That's bad.

Prior to episode four there were some bright spots here and there; Yazan returns and is skulking about; The Argarma seems to be prepping to leave any second now; Judau and his crew are brash and young and seem to be getting set up as our new primary viewpoint; etc. The slapstick grates on you a bit but it seems initially like it's just part of Judau's viewpoint/background and he and the series will grow out of it. All of these sparks of hope are extinguished in one fell swoop by episode four.

Watching ZZ is now for me going to be an exercise in masochism and hoping beyond hope that I haven't been lied to and that it will get better somewhere around the episode 20 mark.

I'll leave you with this final thought; I don't really believe in the idea that things can be retroactively ruined by later editions to the franchise on a one for one enjoyment level. The Prequel Trilogy doesn't ruin the Original Trilogy for example. The same thing is true here, ZZ does not ruin Zeta though it comes perilously close. I'll always know that after Kamille's tenure as the pilot of the Zeta Gundam the Argarma takes it and lets a delinquent run around in it for half a dozen (or god forbid more) episodes. I can never unlearn this cursed truth but hopefully after I'm done with ZZ time will blur things a bit and I'll be able to just think about the start of ZZ as 'The crew of the Argarma fucks around on Shangri-La for awhile' instead of as "fuck me when is this going to be over." They say time heals all wounds.

Spoiler Warning: As indicated by the substance of this review I'm currently only on episode four so I'd appreciate if you wouldn't respond to this post with "well actually Judau dies in episode 15 so you're wrong, ZZ is just as good as Zeta" or whatever the case may be. If you're going to disagree with anything here just keep it simple.

Feb 4, 2019 3:58 AM

SanderC0hen

Offline

Mar 2018

You put so much effort in this post I thought I'd just leave a reply seeing as noone else has and it felt sad af. So here you go you can have my first post.

I am still halfway through Zeta and I am curious about the sequel so I came here reading your thread extinguishing my hopes for it being a good one. Oh well when the time comes I ll have to see for myself I guess...

Feb 8, 2019 11:32 AM

Nuage

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Aug 2013

241

I nearly finished ZZ and I felt more or less like you at the start of ZZ, it was really hard to get to episode 20 where it gets really better until around episode 37-38 where it start to be bad again, but less than the first episodes. ZZ have some really great episodes but you have to suffer a lot to watch those...

Feb 8, 2019 12:52 PM

Rei_III

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Dec 2015

6485

That rapid realisation that what you're watching is no longer Gundam but some cheap imitation thrown together to profit on your love of the series. It's like a star wars Prequel in that way.

Oh my God, I thought I was the only one who thought that when entering Z... Z? Oh, wait, it's the wrong series, sorry.
More seriously, I was expecting something radically different from Zeta to ZZ, after the high disappointment I experienced going from 0079 to 0085. I resented the big change in the recipe: the soap opera aspect was far too strong in Zeta, the teenager drama kept me out, etc. But in the end, I admit it was rather effective (in some rare ways).

About Gundam

Feb 9, 2019 5:36 AM

NightLamp

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Mar 2018

Nuage said:
I nearly finished ZZ and I felt more or less like you at the start of ZZ, it was really hard to get to episode 20 where it gets really better until around episode 37-38 where it start to be bad again, but less than the first episodes. ZZ have some really great episodes but you have to suffer a lot to watch those...

Yep, I feel exactly the same way, having now finished it a little while ago. There's a decently strong run of episodes in the middle section and then eventually for some reason it wears off and becomes bad again, though never as bad as the earlier ones.

Feb 15, 2019 8:20 AM

RealMTL

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Dec 2013

1293

I just started watching ZZ and I can agree. It's been a slog for the first 10-ish episodes. I've considered dropping it a couple times already.

Nov 17, 2019 2:35 AM

Catalano

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Oct 2010

21319

i only saw the 6 UC movies, I wanna go into ZZ someday because Haman is listed as main character and I like her.

Nov 30, 2019 4:59 PM

NightLamp

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Mar 2018

Catalano said:
i only saw the 6 UC movies, I wanna go into ZZ someday because Haman is listed as main character and I like her.

It's probably worth watching the Zeta television series at some point before you watch ZZ because the Zeta trilogy of films doesn't quite line up with the ZZ timeline.

Nov 30, 2019 8:23 PM

Catalano

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Oct 2010

21319

NightLamp said:

Catalano said:
i only saw the 6 UC movies, I wanna go into ZZ someday because Haman is listed as main character and I like her.

It's probably worth watching the Zeta television series at some point before you watch ZZ because the Zeta trilogy of films doesn't quite line up with the ZZ timeline.

I heard about that too, something about the ending and stuff. I didn't enjoy zeta that much but it's not like it's unwatchable and it's a plus if it's a little different than the movies. Thank you.

Jun 20, 2020 7:53 AM

#10

TheRestlessOne

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Sep 2017

238

I just finished watching ZZ, this one was ass, i'm sure tomino was on acid and crack when he wrote this shit.

Jun 20, 2020 8:12 AM

#11

Atlos

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Aug 2018

5195

Most people just go from zeta to char's counterattack and don't watch double zeta

_______I like rocks__

Jul 13, 2020 9:44 AM

#12

BlossomBurst

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Sep 2015

383

MSAtlos said:
Most people just go from zeta to char's counterattack and don't watch double zeta

Sounds like a plan. Probably going to read a synopsis of ZZ after Zeta for CCA.

Feb 4, 2024 9:08 PM

#13

ChangeLeopardon

Offline

Apr 2014

693

I actually didn't care much for Zeta but I loved the beginning of ZZ. Guess I'm a weirdo.

But you have to understand how ridiculous you sound criticizing the entire series based on 4 episodes.

ChangeLeopardonFeb 21, 2024 1:01 AM

Feb 10, 2024 4:54 AM

#14

Feli_Esmeralder

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Feb 2019

124

What can I say? You'd just summarized my thoughts about this series

Feb 6, 7:05 PM

#15

AnimeIsAMistake7

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Sep 2017

holy shit i feel so vindicated right now, i couldn't have said any of it better than that. its going to be a rough 40 episodes man. godspeed

"I can fix her". Patron Saint of Lost Causes. Psych Ward-maxxing.

without love it cannot be seen

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[RANT] The Zeta -> ZZ Transition...

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