| 1. Sota is another moopy indecisive kid.. Japan stop making your main characters stupid fucking kids, I don't need another boy who lacks confidence and has girl troubles be the main character who ends up being more competent that PROFESSIONALS.. you want to know what could've been better? get rid of Sota and Setsuna altogether and make the main characters of the show the fucking creators 2. You don't need Setsuna for Altair to work as a character Altair's whole concept is that she's a fanfiction of another character and that other people also made fanart/fanfic which added to her power... you don't need Setsuna at all as her creator when she literally has hundreds of creators 3. "acceptance" Everyone eventually finds out that for the characters to change they need to be accepted by the audience... So why doesn't the government instead of focusing on the creators making their characters stronger why not instead take all those artists/writers and tell them to start making Altair fanart/fanfic that makes her nicer/weaker meanwhile block random fans who aren't part of the plan from posting new Altair fanfic .. Seeing a well known artist do their take on a popular character like Altair shouldn't be that hard to accept instead of making a spinoff of their own story that combines other stories Super Smash style... "Hey guys this chivalrous knight story and this giant mech story are actually connected!?!?" 4. All the created Characters are handled poorly Remember the old adage "Tell, don't show"... ah yes animations golden rule when it comes storytelling.. all the characters are told what kinda of characters they are based on their description that they tell us the audience instead of actually showing us what they're like in their own shows... Show us why Selesia uses a mech in her world, Show us simulated gameplay from Meteora's game, Show us flashbacks of Yuuya fighting his rival in their story, show us Alicteria fighting monsters, show us Mamika fighting dumb kid show villians, show us Magane using her ability in her world Also for added bonus they could've done each Character's show/game done in a totally different art style and when they're transported to the real world they all end up looking more normal.. 5. The Creators are handled poorly The whole point of the Creators is that they're supposed to be professional storytellers and when their time to shine starts to make all their stories converge they literally don't tell us ANYTHING... they just throw in the word 'acceptance' like we know what they changed to get it.. fucking tell us that Selesia found a magic portal or Meteora found and ancient spellbook or Alicteria was summoned by a Angel or Blitz used a bullet that rips space time and accidentally traveled to the Birdcage... fucking tell us anything The 2-3 episodes that they come up with this idea they literally could've done like the anime Shirobako and shown us a behind the scenes of making an anime/manga and had producers/artists/writers all working together and you actually explore and learn more about all the characters and what changes are actually happening instead of... "the audience won't accept this" or "it was hard making it work but thankfully the audience accepted it" TL;DR Get rid of the Sota and Setsuna, expand upon the characters backstories and show it, have the Creators have in depth creative discussions |
| 1. I think Sota's main problem is that they didn't make him seem important enough to Setsuna, or the story at all, despite him being the thing that saved the day in the end. It would've been better if his motivation for reviving Setsuna was actually out of love or something, and not "He wanted to be an author and stop giving up on trying to do so, so he decided to create his dead friend in a story". Or perhaps spinning his guilt off a different way, like put himself into the birdcage with Setsuna so he can actually apologize to her and resolve the events leading to her death in a wonderful moment of bonding between the two, before they talk Altair out of destroying the universe. There was hardly much that felt like it really resolved his guilt about Setsuna. The Setsuna he created mentions him, but if he really felt such a crushing guilt, it would've made more sense to resolve that by actually having him crying in front of her for it. This still would've been a very predictable ending though, but at least then everything would click. (I wasn't any less entertained by the anime itself despite this, though). ---- 2. Yes you do need Setsuna, because she's the only thing that can "stop" Altair. She's literally a required part of this story's equation for it to calculate evenly. ---- 3. They can't weaken Altair because fans can keep writing whatever they want, and the government can't just "stop fans from uploading to the internet". Even if they could stop that in Japan, the Japanese government can't block the internet in the rest of the world. I love crossovers, and lots of people love crossovers like SSBB, so it's not really implausible for people to have a lot of acceptance for that kind of thing. (I think the bad choice here is your criticism). ---- 4. This point's pretty good, though they did a good job of showing us how Magane's ability works, and it probably wouldn't have been any different if they showed us what it was like in her world. Also, do all of the creations really come from anime? I think some of them simply come from mangas, so all that could be shown about them in the real world, is their book. On the other hand, I feel like it makes more sense for their characterization to be explained through their backstories being discussed. They still show off their personalities through action anyway, and their backstories aren't really integral to the actual story of Re:Creators - they're only needed so we can understand what genre their story is. ---- 5. I thought the point of the Creators was that they're supposed to be normal humans who wrack their brains to write good stories, not magical storytellers who can create perfect storywriting however they want effortlessly. All of those details about how they got their new powers are secondary and not important to the actual story of Re:Creators. The explanation for how they got them is that the creators worked together to modify their creation's storylines for the Elimination Chamber Festival. Sounds like it'd be a lot of useless fluff if they were to go through all of that, since we can already kind of assume how the stories were adapted for them to get their extra abilities. ---- 6. I think Re:Creators was entertaining and mostly fine, but if you want to point out flaws: The way this anime ended was very predictable. Rather than predictable, you could tell very early on that Setsuna's revival was the only way it could possibly end without making the ending look stupid. It's basically solving for X in an equation - only one answer. For the first half of the anime, everything was new and you were constantly being introduced to new characters or problems, which is part of what made it fun and interesting early on and raised many people's expectations for this anime and got it highly regarded from the start. This very thing is the very reason that there is a lot more criticism going around about this anime and whether or not it's really good or not. For the second half of the anime, there wasn't much discovery and not many "aha!" moments where what was happening was surprising and interesting. I think the last "aha!" moment for me was when Blitz Talker's daughter got revived. That was a really good one and something I didn't expect, which payed homage to all of the emotional build-up beforehand. The second half pretty much felt like everything was unfolding exactly as you'd expect it'd have to unfold. Coupling the way the anime sort of died down in the latter stages with the increased provocation for people to actually criticize this anime that people gained from the first half, I imagine disappointment being increased as a result. Then again, it's almost the same as what the last episode showed - Elimination Chamber Festival was a huge hit, but people did come in later to point out some of the various flaws in the crossover story's design after it ended. |
ChdataSep 16, 2017 3:12 PM
| ~ Ch-ch-ch-data Visit my Discord community: VGData. For games, anime, & music. |
Chdata said: 2. Yes you do need Setsuna, because she's the only thing that can "stop" Altair. She's literally a required part of this story's equation for it to calculate evenly. She's only a required part of the story's equation because they wanted Sota to have the final 'twist'.. but as i said if you get rid of both of them and make Altair an overpowered anomaly because she has hundreds of fans as her creators then she changes as a villain with a different kind of weakness because she doesn't have an emotional angsty teen as her creator.. Chdata said: 5. I thought the point of the Creators was that they're supposed to be normal humans who wrack their brains to write good stories, not magical storytellers who can create perfect storywriting however they want effortlessly. All of those details about how they got their new powers are secondary and not important to the actual story of Re:Creators. The explanation for how they got them is that the creators worked together to modify their creation's storylines for the Elimination Chamber Festival. They are supposed to be normal humans who wrack their brains to write stories, if they actually showed us. Again all they do is point at a piece of paper and say "I think this is good and would be accepted" and then someone else laughs and says no it's too simple or easy. If they actually focused on the creators and the characters as the show implies and showed more development on their stories/shows then you would be more invested in their characters and how those changes apply to the real world, any explanation/detail would be a lot better than none at all and just saying 'acceptance' every other sentence |
TanoshiiTanuki said: An obvious problem with Re:Creators I didn't point out in my review, is that it's a 50-75 episode anime stuffed into 22 episodes. It's such a shame the premise was wasted. The characters are so underdeveloped. Each 'Creation' deserved to have half an episode dedicated to their world before being brought into the real world. I don't see where this is "50-75" episode. I wouldn't be able to watch this that long. It was already padded with fights with no real point. |
| Sota said in the first episode that he wasn't the main character, did he not? If anything, there is no "main, main character", but many important characters. |
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TanoshiiTanuki said: It doesn't need 50-75 episodes. An obvious problem with Re:Creators I didn't point out in my review, is that it's a 50-75 episode anime stuffed into 22 episodes. It's such a shame the premise was wasted. The characters are so underdeveloped. Each 'Creation' deserved to have half an episode dedicated to their world before being brought into the real world. |
| I think one of the main problem was because people were expecting this show to be like "Fate" (that's the impression I got initially too). People were expecting Fate, and were disappointed to get something else. While I would also have loved a more battle royal oriented anime, I don't dislike what we got either. After finishing it, I can agree with what they have said --- this Anime is not an action-focused one. The first 2 episodes were misleading. It really was about creating. |
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| Hm it `had` potential but i expect nothing less from the guy who did aldnoah o.O Still miss mahou shoujo mamika :( and would have been nice to see more focus towards Altair, ah well though recreators was a decent pass the time series. |
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Jakerams said: FrozenSheep said: Sota said in the first episode that he wasn't the main character, did he not? If anything, there is no "main, main character", but many important characters. Exactly. I'm not sure why people keep complaining about Sota as the main character he even said he isn't. If anything the main character is definitely Altair. That was literally just a lie to the viewer to trick them into thinking the show will focus on the creator's characters yet Sota was the one who saved the day at the end and all the characters agree that 'although they may be the main characters in their own story they ended up being a side character'  |
MCA5EY said: Saving the day doesn't make you the main character it just makes you the hero. Jakerams said: Exactly. I'm not sure why people keep complaining about Sota as the main character he even said he isn't. If anything the main character is definitely Altair. That was literally just a lie to the viewer to trick them into thinking the show will focus on the creator's characters yet Sota was the one who saved the day at the end and all the characters agree that 'although they may be the main characters in their own story they ended up being a side character' |
| Another stupid beta dense mc being a protagonist. Im sick of that kind of mc japan. Good summary op. The premise is great but badly executed. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
| Yeah it had a good concept but the execution was lackluster. Exposition is fine, but not when presented through nothing but monotone Meteora monologues all show Also I thought the idea behind seeing how fictional characters interact with the "real" world was really interesting when they realize how warped their world views are due to their respective tropes, but they never explored this topic much because it focused more on the whole "acceptance" idea which was nowhere even close to being as interesting. So it definitely felt like a bit of wasted potential to me |
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nymi said: Another stupid beta dense mc being a protagonist. Im sick of that kind of mc japan. Good summary op. The premise is great but badly executed. Normally I would agree, because way too many animes have this type of character as the lead, but if Sota wasn't a beta then wouldn't that have been strange? His best friend killed herself and he feels responsible, because he left her at her weakest moments. He feels like he could have saved her, but in reality he couldn't. That guilt is something extremely heavy for anyone to handle, especially a teenager who is also going through puberty and stuff. He might not have shown it much, but he's probably been depressed for awhile. Setsuna returning helped Altair, but I think Altair wanted Sota to save her and destroy the world at the same time. The only one who could beat Altair is the one person she was a creation for. For me it made sense for Sota to be so weak and beta. But I think I may be in the minority with this feeling lol. |
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Jakerams said: FrozenSheep said: Sota said in the first episode that he wasn't the main character, did he not? If anything, there is no "main, main character", but many important characters. FrozenSheep said: Exactly. I'm not sure why people keep complaining about Sota as the main character he even said he isn't. If anything the main character is definitely Altair. Sota said in the first episode that he wasn't the main character, did he not? If anything, there is no "main, main character", but many important characters. and yet MAL still listed sota as Main Character and Altair as Supporting Character LOL |
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nymi said: Another stupid beta dense mc being a protagonist. Im sick of that kind of mc japan Stop whining about MC. Souta wasn't MC or protagonist. Meteora was more the MC than him. Overall it's ensemble cast. |
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| I totally agree with you here @MCA5EY (maybe except how to handle altair because you cant censor the entire internet, but her character was way to much of a plot device anyway) Everytime they started talking about how to create good storys and what is needed I thought - then why the hell are you doing the complete opposite? Also first Altair said she was glad to be able to meed sota ..... just to never interact with him again after this? What even is this. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
Shunaria said: and yet MAL still listed sota as Main Character and Altair as Supporting Character LOL Really? Yall just gonna argue on technicalities now? Makes me wonder if you even seen the show but okay I'll slap some sense into you. He's listed as MC because he's the first character introduced in the story thus so far he is the Main Character in which events are centered around. If you had seen the show, which I am doubtful, you'll see why he is at the center of the story even though his presence is superseded by the creations; something that applies to almost all the creators. Which doesn't even matter because the show utilizes an ensemble cast which means there are as many roles as needed to fulfill the plot. Out of all the dumb ass and misinformed nonsense I see in this thread the most tangible criticism I saw was it would of benefited from a longer run. Now that's something debatable. I can see the benefits of having a longer run to further flesh out of the cast but on the other hand they literally and are stereotypical archetypes given form. I'm not so sure the merits would of been so monumental for them to go down that direction. I think from what growth we've gotten to see from some of the creations gets across the idea well that the creations are no longer binary in nature but are individuals who must think for themselves. |
LordLagann said: Shunaria said: and yet MAL still listed sota as Main Character and Altair as Supporting Character LOL Really? Yall just gonna argue on technicalities now? Makes me wonder if you even seen the show but okay I'll slap some sense into you. He's listed as MC because he's the first character introduced in the story thus so far he is the Main Character in which events are centered around. If you had seen the show, which I am doubtful, you'll see why he is at the center of the story even though his presence is superseded by the creations; something that applies to almost all the creators. Which doesn't even matter because the show utilizes an ensemble cast which means there are as many roles as needed to fulfill the plot. Out of all the dumb ass and misinformed nonsense I see in this thread the most tangible criticism I saw was it would of benefited from a longer run. Now that's something debatable. I can see the benefits of having a longer run to further flesh out of the cast but on the other hand they literally and are stereotypical archetypes given form. I'm not so sure the merits would of been so monumental for them to go down that direction. I think from what growth we've gotten to see from some of the creations gets across the idea well that the creations are no longer binary in nature but are individuals who must think for themselves. FYI I watch re:Creator and i think she should listed as main character. That my opinion, ofcourse MAL staff have ruler to determine which main and support character, I don't care if people disagree with me, that my own opinion and i will never Change that. But seriously.... Do you see my list? I only follow 5 show from this season and you doubt I never watch it?? You should ask that kind question to people like Stark700 who watch every shows this season. Did he really watch it? Did he really enjoy it? or just want to fullfill his list? To think someone like you accused me never watch re:Creator because I have different opinion is make me angry |
SSSS_ShunariaSep 24, 2017 8:28 AM
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Shunaria said: FYI I watch re:Creator and i think she should listed as main character. That my opinion, ofcourse MAL staff have ruler to determine which main and support character, I don't care if people disagree with me, that my own opinion and i will never Change that. But seriously.... Do you see my list? I only follow 5 show from this season and you doubt I never watch it?? You should ask that kind question to people like Stark700 who watch every shows this season. Did he really watch it? Did he really enjoy it? or just want to fullfill his list? To think someone like you accused me never watch re:Creator because I have different opinion is make me angry More technicalities. The fact people are concerned with how characters are labeled outside of the show tells me they're more concerned about appearances and substance. Just because you've seen something doesn't mean anything other then the fact that you eyes were open while the show was playing. Unless you can speak about it in depth then it's not a matter of opinion but accuracy. Take OP for instance, almost every word brings you to believe he was just staring mindlessly as the screen while the was playing just fantasying about watching something else. You don't need Setsuna for Altair to work as a character? Sota is more competent than the other professional creators? TELL DON'T SHOW? What the fuck? The moron tries to use sarcasm to demonstrate why the Re:Creators doesn't simply show us how creations should be when in fact it's present from the second they enter the screen. Of course his tiny mind wouldn't be able to comprehend that unless it's done in Fairy Tail level expositions. Anyone who couldn't see that Mamika is suppose to be a cliche magical girl or Alicetaria as the chivalrous knight in shining armor is a clear example of watching the show while asleep. |
LordLagann said: More technicalities. The fact people are concerned with how characters are labeled outside of the show tells me they're more concerned about appearances and substance. Just because you've seen something doesn't mean anything other then the fact that you eyes were open while the show was playing. Unless you can speak about it in depth then it's not a matter of opinion but accuracy. Take OP for instance, almost every word brings you to believe he was just staring mindlessly as the screen while the was playing just fantasying about watching something else. You don't need Setsuna for Altair to work as a character? Sota is more competent than the other professional creators? TELL DON'T SHOW? What the fuck? The moron tries to use sarcasm to demonstrate why the Re:Creators doesn't simply show us how creations should be when in fact it's present from the second they enter the screen. Of course his tiny mind wouldn't be able to comprehend that unless it's done in Fairy Tail level expositions. Anyone who couldn't see that Mamika is suppose to be a cliche magical girl or Alicetaria as the chivalrous knight in shining armor is a clear example of watching the show while asleep. uhh no shit? I know they're all supposed to be cliches that's basic for watching this show to understand any of them.. Also you don't seem to get the point of my post, the show has a great premise but because of lazy japanese story telling these days it falls short of becoming something great.. Mamika was the closest to becoming a developed character when she started skirting Madoka territory but they killed her way too soon. The only way i could explain this to your tiny brain was that this show was boring which is probably why you thought i was "fantasizing about watching something else." Nothing is worse for a show/story than wasted potential. I binged the show and waited to make this post until the end. hindsight is 20/20 on what they could've done differently that could've made the show more exciting. If you're gonna make an Iseka story about fictional characters then starting off with cliches are fine.. but a few simple flashbacks from their source material could easily add depth to them and actually make them more rounded as a character instead of 'chivalrous knight in shining armor' |
MCA5EY said: uhh no shit? I know they're all supposed to be cliches that's basic for watching this show to understand any of them.. Also you don't seem to get the point of my post, the show has a great premise but because of lazy japanese story telling these days it falls short of becoming something great.. Mamika was the closest to becoming a developed character when she started skirting Madoka territory but they killed her way too soon. The only way i could explain this to your tiny brain was that this show was boring which is probably why you thought i was "fantasizing about watching something else." Nothing is worse for a show/story than wasted potential. I binged the show and waited to make this post until the end. hindsight is 20/20 on what they could've done differently that could've made the show more exciting. If you're gonna make an Iseka story about fictional characters then starting off with cliches are fine.. but a few simple flashbacks from their source material could easily add depth to them and actually make them more rounded as a character instead of 'chivalrous knight in shining armor' Naw you see that's where I have to disagree. Being lazy and taking a good idea just to spoil it is one thing but working with what you have and ending up with something that maybe could of been better is another. The former being purposefully negligent for the sake of convince and which I don't agree was what happened in the show at all. Just the line up of creations alone is like what? Twelve? I don't expect every one of them to get the same amount of screen time and even less so development. The amount there was for a run time of 22 episodes was more then sufficient to get across their independence from the archetypes their creators had given them. It's also worth mentioning that they creations themselves were never the focal point of the story so what you're asking for is something completely devoid of anything Re:Creators other than the name. Which leads me to believe you're not just dissatisfied with the show you're simply hating on it. I also don't agree that "a few simple flashbacks" is a good way to divulge information for any purpose. All you're talk about lazy writing and you bring up one of the laziest way to develop a character; like Fairy Tail / Naruto level lazy. |
LordLagann said: Naw you see that's where I have to disagree. Being lazy and taking a good idea just to spoil it is one thing but working with what you have and ending up with something that maybe could of been better is another. The former being purposefully negligent for the sake of convince and which I don't agree was what happened in the show at all. Just the line up of creations alone is like what? Twelve? I don't expect every one of them to get the same amount of screen time and even less so development. The amount there was for a run time of 22 episodes was more then sufficient to get across their independence from the archetypes their creators had given them. It's also worth mentioning that they creations themselves were never the focal point of the story so what you're asking for is something completely devoid of anything Re:Creators other than the name. Which leads me to believe you're not just dissatisfied with the show you're simply hating on it. I also don't agree that "a few simple flashbacks" is a good way to divulge information for any purpose. All you're talk about lazy writing and you bring up one of the laziest way to develop a character; like Fairy Tail / Naruto level lazy. Nor do I expect the 8 main characters to all have backstories to develop them into characters (Altair doesn't have one and the +3 they added at the end wasn't needed either) but I'd rather see 4 or 5 of them instead of nothing that happened in the 6 month time skip Also yes, the creations are the focal point, It's a god damn isekai anime where the fictional characters meet their creators.. The creations and the creators SHOULD be the focal point but instead we get another high school kid who saves the day instead of competent professionals, damn right i'm hating it. They had opportunities to delve into details about story-writing from various professionals points of view yet they said fuck that and just say "acceptance" without showing anything And 'flashbacks' was the only way i could think of to SHOW the creations source material instead of implying all the characters are just simple cliches, not an actual flashback of what we've already seen. |
MCA5EY said: Nor do I expect the 8 main characters to all have backstories to develop them into characters (Altair doesn't have one and the +3 they added at the end wasn't needed either) but I'd rather see 4 or 5 of them instead of nothing that happened in the 6 month time skip Also yes, the creations are the focal point, It's a god damn isekai anime where the fictional characters meet their creators.. The creations and the creators SHOULD be the focal point but instead we get another high school kid who saves the day instead of competent professionals, damn right i'm hating it. They had opportunities to delve into details about story-writing from various professionals points of view yet they said fuck that and just say "acceptance" without showing anything And 'flashbacks' was the only way i could think of to SHOW the creations source material instead of implying all the characters are just simple cliches, not an actual flashback of what we've already seen. You're getting what's most visible on the screen and the story's thematic purpose confused with each other. What's most visible are the flashy creations that clash with each other but the story sets out to describe the power of words; specifically the ones we write down in stories and the unspoken words. That's the entire plot of Re:Creators and when it comes down to it why everything and everyone is up in arms. Why Setsuna died, why some of the creations are spiteful at their creators, how creations draw their extraordinary powers from etc. The creations, and by an extent the creators, are manifestations of how words affect reality; they bring pain, they give courage, they make us doubtful, etc. Which brings me to another misconception you seem to have about the show; it's not a Isekai Anime. Characters from our reality, their reality, as described aren't dropped into an alternate world. It's not an Isekai Anime the same reasons why FSN aren't; because you have the reasons reversed. It's the creations that are pulled out of their universe into reality, I.E given physical form, and for the most part their realities only exist within their memories. We as the audience aren't given information whether they had existed before the events of Re:Creators because the entirety of their world it isn't necessary outside of a few snippets that the show had presented. It's not a show focused on character study and it's goal isn't to end up with a huge and well developed cast. The fact you think that think Re:Creators should be this and should be that means you were watching it for the sake of hoping it'd be something else. When it wasn't you got mad, got on the forums, and started whining. It seems to me it has nothing to do with Re:Creators, it was you who hype yourself up so much that when it turned out differently you had to scream injustice. It's like eating waffles for breakfast and complaining later that you never liked waffles and wish it was pancakes. The goddamn waffles didn't do anything wrong you should of just had some fucking pancakes. |
LordLagann said: You're getting what's most visible on the screen and the story's thematic purpose confused with each other. What's most visible are the flashy creations that clash with each other but the story sets out to describe the power of words; specifically the ones we write down in stories and the unspoken words. That's the entire plot of Re:Creators and when it comes down to it why everything and everyone is up in arms. Why Setsuna died, why some of the creations are spiteful at their creators, how creations draw their extraordinary powers from etc. The creations, and by an extent the creators, are manifestations of how words affect reality; they bring pain, they give courage, they make us doubtful, etc. Which brings me to another misconception you seem to have about the show; it's not a Isekai Anime. Characters from our reality, their reality, as described aren't dropped into an alternate world. It's not an Isekai Anime the same reasons why FSN aren't; because you have the reasons reversed. It's the creations that are pulled out of their universe into reality, I.E given physical form, and for the most part their realities only exist within their memories. We as the audience aren't given information whether they had existed before the events of Re:Creators because the entirety of their world it isn't necessary outside of a few snippets that the show had presented. It's not a show focused on character study and it's goal isn't to end up with a huge and well developed cast. The fact you think that think Re:Creators should be this and should be that means you were watching it for the sake of hoping it'd be something else. When it wasn't you got mad, got on the forums, and started whining. It seems to me it has nothing to do with Re:Creators, it was you who hype yourself up so much that when it turned out differently you had to scream injustice. It's like eating waffles for breakfast and complaining later that you never liked waffles and wish it was pancakes. The goddamn waffles didn't do anything wrong you should of just had some fucking pancakes. Don't you dare try to make this anything more than what it is, It's a god damn Reverse Isekai anime where characters from another world come into ours and fight.. that's it, that's objectively true no two ways about it. I haven't watch F/SN yet, but if it has a character that goes from reality to another then it's an isekai as well. Oh and please do tell me of all the amazing moments in which the creators used their power of words to craft a story where multiple professionals of different genre storytelling came together and discussed how they're gonna link everything. you got a few points right though, about how the words affect reality, but i'm complaining about the step after that, in which they didn't show any details or explanation. Everything was hand waved with 'acceptance' with no effort shown. Either whoever wrote this story wasn't strong enough of a writer to go into detail about legitimate story telling and crafting a story or the studio who animated it decided to make a few changes. And I have such a big deal about this because it does nothing with which should be it's main characters (the CREATORS) and just says they did it in 6 months It's more like expecting waffles and as you eat more you expect there to be melted butter and syrup but as you keep eating it gets colder and harder to chew.. also there hasn't been any other anime in which fictional characters meet their creators so don't tell me to go eat those non existent pancakes The point of this forum post was for me to list what i felt the show could have done to make it better or at the very least more interesting. But enough about my thoughts, since you think pretty much everything i said was wrong, I would like to hear what you think the show could have done better/different to make it more interesting or what you think the show did right |
MCA5EY said: Don't you dare try to make this anything more than what it is, It's a god damn Reverse Isekai anime where characters from another world come into ours and fight.. that's it, that's objectively true no two ways about it. I haven't watch F/SN yet, but if it has a character that goes from reality to another then it's an isekai as well. Oh and please do tell me of all the amazing moments in which the creators used their power of words to craft a story where multiple professionals of different genre storytelling came together and discussed how they're gonna link everything. you got a few points right though, about how the words affect reality, but i'm complaining about the step after that, in which they didn't show any details or explanation. Everything was hand waved with 'acceptance' with no effort shown. Either whoever wrote this story wasn't strong enough of a writer to go into detail about legitimate story telling and crafting a story or the studio who animated it decided to make a few changes. And I have such a big deal about this because it does nothing with which should be it's main characters (the CREATORS) and just says they did it in 6 months It's more like expecting waffles and as you eat more you expect there to be melted butter and syrup but as you keep eating it gets colder and harder to chew.. also there hasn't been any other anime in which fictional characters meet their creators so don't tell me to go eat those non existent pancakes The point of this forum post was for me to list what i felt the show could have done to make it better or at the very least more interesting. But enough about my thoughts, since you think pretty much everything i said was wrong, I would like to hear what you think the show could have done better/different to make it more interesting or what you think the show did right Bruh, I'm not the one jumping from one genre to another. First it was Isekai now it's reverse Isekai? Which the fuck is it because they sure as hell don't have the same implications; and going off that thought how the fuck is anyone even suppose to follow you when you base an entire argument around a genre then go and flip it? Just because you refuse to see anything outside your bubble doesn't make it Re:Creators problem to adhere to your narrow sensibilities. I mean the entire latter half was about a massive crossover between different genres and is something REAL companies do all the fucking time and, oh wow, you just happened to conveniently forget that. The creators even were discussing the enormous undertaking it would require to pull it off and how some of them weren't even ready to mix their I.P's out of fear of clashing with one another. Not to mention the entire plot was pivotal on Setsuna committing suicide from negative comments on the internet and Sota's refusal to support her through it; the biggest example of words affecting reality in the entire show. I mean shit, I really don't feel like picking out every instance of words affecting the dynamic of each group, character, or scene just because you are selectively blind. Pull your head out of your ass. Shit like this makes me wonder if you were even awake when you watched it. This show ain't perfect believe me but the grievances you're bringing up don't actual pertain to Re:Creators; I mean half the shit you bring up is straight up inaccurate common man. That's just shit you wished happened when in reality there ain't nothing wrong with warm waffle. If you want toppings or it to be cooked a specific way then shit you can always make one yourself. Yet here you are biting the hand that feeds. The most immediate weakness I found to be in the show is the pacing. Not horrendous but it defiantly is the show's biggest shortcoming. It's gets more noticeable as the show progresses since the time skips were implemented to make up for the lengthy fighting scenes and dialogue. In the end this resulted in the story and characters not being as solidified as they could of been. It's also not clear where the problem stems. Whether it's because of the 22 episode run, 20+ characters, complicated plot, or even time it's difficult to point out a single variable, or if its even one, and go on about tweaking it. Maybe an adjustment of the episode numbers would help corral aspects of the story for a smoother experience but again it's tough to say. In all that's said and done it felt like the studio and staff happened upon a great idea and just ran with it asap. I'm sure it was a nightmare to juggle everything but I for one think they did a good job. |
LordLagann said: Bruh, I'm not the one jumping from one genre to another. First it was Isekai now it's reverse Isekai? Which the fuck is it because they sure as hell don't have the same implications; and going off that thought how the fuck is anyone even suppose to follow you when you base an entire argument around a genre then go and flip it? Just because you refuse to see anything outside your bubble doesn't make it Re:Creators problem to adhere to your narrow sensibilities. I mean the entire latter half was about a massive crossover between different genres and is something REAL companies do all the fucking time and, oh wow, you just happened to conveniently forget that. The creators even were discussing the enormous undertaking it would require to pull it off and how some of them weren't even ready to mix their I.P's out of fear of clashing with one another. Not to mention the entire plot was pivotal on Setsuna committing suicide from negative comments on the internet and Sota's refusal to support her through it; the biggest example of words affecting reality in the entire show. I mean shit, I really don't feel like picking out every instance of words affecting the dynamic of each group, character, or scene just because you are selectively blind. Pull your head out of your ass. Shit like this makes me wonder if you were even awake when you watched it. This show ain't perfect believe me but the grievances you're bringing up don't actual pertain to Re:Creators; I mean half the shit you bring up is straight up inaccurate common man. That's just shit you wished happened when in reality there ain't nothing wrong with warm waffle. If you want toppings or it to be cooked a specific way then shit you can always make one yourself. Yet here you are biting the hand that feeds. Isekai are when a person from our reality goes into a fictional one, a reverse Isekai is when a fictional person comes into our reality.. they're the same concept except reversed so when you said... "Characters from our reality, their reality, as described aren't dropped into an alternate world. It's not an Isekai Anime the same reasons why FSN aren't; because you have the reasons reversed" I still don't know how you don't understand this, isekai should be general enough to understand "another world" even if i forgot to clarify it was a reverse isekai. Also I never forgot that the latter half was about a massive crossover, I don't think you're understanding what i'm talking about this part of the show. I'm disappointed that they didn't use this scenario to it's full potential. you have one half of the show of creations fighting each other, and then you should have the other half being creators working together to combine all their stories using their words. Instead that part gets hand waved and a 6 month time skip and a few lines of "We weren't sure the audience picked up on the small detail we left in so we don't know if they're gonna accept it".. wow after 6 months of planning and all we get is a few vague throw away lines implying they did a lot of hard work.. You said it yourself the show is about words affecting our reality. The creators write those words, they brainstorm, they rewrite, they draft, they do all this hard work to craft a story to make it interesting.. and we get none of that in a show about creators meeting their characters. Also it's getting kinda boring that every time you reply, you keep asking if i even watched the show because everything i'm saying is wrong? You're not getting it.. Everything i'm listing are changes I think they could've have done better. I'm sure there's been plenty of moments during an anime that you've watched where you thought to yourself "Why didn't they just do this or that instead?" <- that's all this post has ever been |
MCA5EY said: Isekai are when a person from our reality goes into a fictional one, a reverse Isekai is when a fictional person comes into our reality.. they're the same concept except reversed so when you said... "Characters from our reality, their reality, as described aren't dropped into an alternate world. It's not an Isekai Anime the same reasons why FSN aren't; because you have the reasons reversed" I still don't know how you don't understand this, isekai should be general enough to understand "another world" even if i forgot to clarify it was a reverse isekai. Also I never forgot that the latter half was about a massive crossover, I don't think you're understanding what i'm talking about this part of the show. I'm disappointed that they didn't use this scenario to it's full potential. you have one half of the show of creations fighting each other, and then you should have the other half being creators working together to combine all their stories using their words. Instead that part gets hand waved and a 6 month time skip and a few lines of "We weren't sure the audience picked up on the small detail we left in so we don't know if they're gonna accept it".. wow after 6 months of planning and all we get is a few vague throw away lines implying they did a lot of hard work.. You said it yourself the show is about words affecting our reality. The creators write those words, they brainstorm, they rewrite, they draft, they do all this hard work to craft a story to make it interesting.. and we get none of that in a show about creators meeting their characters. Also it's getting kinda boring that every time you reply, you keep asking if i even watched the show because everything i'm saying is wrong? You're not getting it.. Everything i'm listing are changes I think they could've have done better. I'm sure there's been plenty of moments during an anime that you've watched where you thought to yourself "Why didn't they just do this or that instead?" <- that's all this post has ever been Ballpark descriptions of what Isekai, or Reverse Isekai, should entail will get you nowhere. It's like saying every comedy or action show must consist of XZY. Broad and generalized descriptions like that will only keep you from seeing anything outside those ridged specifications; something I assume what your case is. Not to mention genre markers are only a vague prelude of what the actual content will consist of. Nothing is ever as straightforward as "girl falls in love" or "guy finds himself in another world". The latter half of the show did buzz by some important detail but it did not exclude them. We as the audience understood what was happening and why enough to move along. I mean the concept of acceptance is pretty much this show's version of faith or belief and it's something that was understood from the get go in order for creations to even exist. The crossover bit was fine as well. Sure maybe a tiny bit more would of help but the point of the latter half wasn't about weaving these stories into one it was just to demonstrate how difficult it is working with other creative minds. Crossovers scarcely ever make any fucking sense in the real world so it's understandable why the show didn't want to walk into that cluster fuck. Besides, something like that is literally going to be a bunch of artist, authors, and creative directors talking for episodes on end; the exact thing you complaining there should be less of. I mean, like, holy shit. There's New Game!, Bakuman, Shirobako, Barakamon, Genshiken, etc. if you are that obsessed with the creative process. Spoilers though, there's not much action if any. Why? Because it's not thrilling or jaw dropping to watch someone talk about their work; in Anime or reality. Besides there were back and fourth between the creators and creations throughout the show before the massive crossover. The first handful of episode was literally about Selesia and Meteora confronting their creators and asking questions about their world and it's nuanced throughout the story with characters like Blitz and Alicetaria. These are reasons why I keep wondering if you've seen the show. You bring up these outlandish claims like there's no instance of professionals working together or there are no interesting interactions between the creators and creations. Not to mention you thought the show didn't need Setsuna or Sota? Those are the type of bizarre ideas which makes me question if actually took the time to genuinely watch the show instead of staring blankly at the screen. These things clearly existed and happen but because you were so caught up in your own expectations they are quickly dismissed without any proper consideration. You want to list things you want to see? That's fine but don't poke arbitrary holes wherever you feel like it because you specifically wished to see otherwise. This isn't a discussion about symbolism or metaphors either. These are factual events in the story that you've been neglecting and twisting to suit your needs. |
LordLagann said: The latter half of the show did buzz by some important detail but it did not exclude them. We as the audience understood what was happening and why enough to move along. I mean the concept of acceptance is pretty much this show's version of faith or belief and it's something that was understood from the get go in order for creations to even exist. The crossover bit was fine as well. Sure maybe a tiny bit more would of help but the point of the latter half wasn't about weaving these stories into one it was just to demonstrate how difficult it is working with other creative minds. Crossovers scarcely ever make any fucking sense in the real world so it's understandable why the show didn't want to walk into that cluster fuck. Besides, something like that is literally going to be a bunch of artist, authors, and creative directors talking for episodes on end; the exact thing you complaining there should be less of. I mean, like, holy shit. There's New Game!, Bakuman, Shirobako, Barakamon, Genshiken, etc. if you are that obsessed with the creative process. Spoilers though, there's not much action if any. Why? Because it's not thrilling or jaw dropping to watch someone talk about their work; in Anime or reality. Besides there were back and fourth between the creators and creations throughout the show before the massive crossover. The first handful of episode was literally about Selesia and Meteora confronting their creators and asking questions about their world and it's nuanced throughout the story with characters like Blitz and Alicetaria. These are reasons why I keep wondering if you've seen the show. You bring up these outlandish claims like there's no instance of professionals working together or there are no interesting interactions between the creators and creations. Not to mention you thought the show didn't need Setsuna or Sota? Those are the type of bizarre ideas which makes me question if actually took the time to genuinely watch the show instead of staring blankly at the screen. These things clearly existed and happen but because you were so caught up in your own expectations they are quickly dismissed without any proper consideration. You want to list things you want to see? That's fine but don't poke arbitrary holes wherever you feel like it because you specifically wished to see otherwise. This isn't a discussion about symbolism or metaphors either. These are factual events in the story that you've been neglecting and twisting to suit your needs. I've never twisted or dismissed anything in the show that happened. I understood every action they took and my problem is that it is boring and overused (Seriously stop saying that I haven't seen the show i'm honestly confused how you don't get that I have at this point).. Also did we really need another indecisive high school kid to save the day that the government and other professionals could not, no not really... I could find a dozen other anime that have the same outline.. Oh and for added bonus they throw in suicide, almost surprised they didn't mention the declining birth rates.. But I finally understand where the disconnect between us is. I'm coming from this show from being a creative persons perspective, (i've made a few games, drawn, modeled, painted some characters/landscape and written some short stories) so when you say that "it's not thrilling or jaw dropping to watch someone talk about their work; in Anime or reality." that's where I say you're wrong. It's extremely interesting for someone like me who wants to know more about how someone makes something and all the little details that go into it. So when i see a show that could potentially be half action half creative process my interest was piqued (especially about creators meeting their creations). And then when the creators finally get their moment to show off, it's wasted and that disappointed me. That excited feeling you get when you see fighting could be just as intense when you see 4-5 of these creators sitting in a room, writing, they have a deadline and the fate of the world is on their shoulders to make this story work.. they yell at each other, they disagrees with each others processes, they work long nights, they're tired, they get into fights, the drama is high it's the same feeling as the fighting scenes.. aaaand we get about 5 minutes of this and then 6 months go by... |
MCA5EYSep 27, 2017 6:15 PM
firemagnet said: Further, thematically the show isn't about Isekai or Reverse Isekai. Isekai implies parallel universes, where the theme is the character becoming a "hero" and being given a redeeming second chance (or not). Isekai doesn't always imply parallel universes.. translated it just roughly means 'another world'.. the point of an Isekai anime is to bring a character with one world view into another and how those differing world views clash.. it's culture shock and that's the stepping off point for the show for any of the themes it wants to discuss.. ie how are words affect each other, if we could speak to our 'creator/god', life, death and reality it's not a theme it's more of a genre and what to expect from it also I could've sworn that Magane killed her creator and made it look like he hung himself, not that he couldn't face the implications |
MCA5EY said: I've never twisted or dismissed anything in the show that happened. I understood every action they took and my problem is that it is boring and overused (Seriously stop saying that I haven't seen the show i'm honestly confused how you don't get that I have at this point).. Also did we really need another indecisive high school kid to save the day that the government and other professionals could not, no not really... I could find a dozen other anime that have the same outline.. Oh and for added bonus they throw in suicide, almost surprised they didn't mention the declining birth rates.. But I finally understand where the disconnect between us is. I'm coming from this show from being a creative persons perspective, (i've made a few games, drawn, modeled, painted some characters/landscape and written some short stories) so when you say that "it's not thrilling or jaw dropping to watch someone talk about their work; in Anime or reality." that's where I say you're wrong. It's extremely interesting for someone like me who wants to know more about how someone makes something and all the little details that go into it. So when i see a show that could potentially be half action half creative process my interest was piqued (especially about creators meeting their creations). And then when the creators finally get their moment to show off, it's wasted and that disappointed me. That excited feeling you get when you see fighting could be just as intense when you see 4-5 of these creators sitting in a room, writing, they have a deadline and the fate of the world is on their shoulders to make this story work.. they yell at each other, they disagrees with each others processes, they work long nights, they're tired, they get into fights, the drama is high it's the same feeling as the fighting scenes.. aaaand we get about 5 minutes of this and then 6 months go by... I disagree that it's boring. Overused? Perhaps but than again it's not something I see as the seasonal de facto character template. I also feel it should be stated that Sota was pivotal, but not necessary, to subdue Altair. His role is intertwined with Altair and Setsuna so it made sense the one person who could come close to injuring her is the person most familiar with her trauma. He's archetype clearly isn't just throw in there half haphazardly as it's why the story even occurs in the first place. It really must be a different strokes for different folks because as working Graphic Designer learning mold making, fabric soon, and later animation the last thing I wanna do on my free time is talk about work. I understand the appeal that games, movies, or Anime that can be a learning experience; but then again most of what we consume is. I look for patterns, analyze what's interesting, deconstruct a scene etc. for pretty much anything worthwild but I think shows that specifically deal in one trade or another are just there to glorify whatever it is that's being featured. I know for fucking sure cooking ain't nothing like Shokugeki no Souma or that almost every show that's about making Anime unsurprisingly, and probably cruelly, glorifies the entire process. I don't watch Anime or play games to see someone like me designing and discussing changes for 12 episodes. I do it to see cool characters do cool shit that otherwise wouldn't be possible in real life; or in most other mediums for that matter. FYI - That scene with Megane in her creators apartment isn't conclusive. It's the main characters that suspect she killed him but there's nothing that's shown to the audience which suggest she went there to murder him. Knowing her she could have easily just have been toying with him until he couldn't accept it and hung himself. Maybe shes confesses or one or the other later in the series but I don't recall. |
firemagnet said: Magane implies in episode 9 that her creator was a "coward" who chose the easy way out. As another poster noted, Magane's style is blood, and lots of it. Her creator "Hemingwayed" himself. Personally, I think that they could have used another three episodes for character development and to really show the way the characters interact with the world beyond a few oneliners (We don't get to see much of Blitz, Charon, or Syo interacting with the world, which was a bit of a disappointment). With relation to Sota, I think he was done very realistically. Though perhaps a bit too soft and indirect for western sensibilities, he's a very good depiction of the the trauma and guilt that someone displays after losing a friend, especially if they think that it's "their fault." Overall, I think that the show struck a good balance. It didn't flesh and show the characters truly living in the world enough to show really the impact of creation and words, but it was easily one of the best anime of the season and certainly stands on its own merits. It's hardly the "trash" that others seem to think it is. I do think they could've had 2-3 more episodes I feel like Blitz and the Creators could've been utilized more effectively, Syo and Charon would've been redundant being from the same story as Selesia and Yuuya I wouldn't call it trash, but I wouldn't call it one of the best of the season either.. to me they started with a strong premise, but ended up taking the safe 'route' animation wise and development wise building up Sota instead of taking chances |
MCA5EYSep 30, 2017 4:01 PM
| Yeah, it was bad from episode 1, because of the narrator-style guy who doesn't actually do anything, and the other "creator" niqqas who are similarly worthless. That said, TROYCA's storyboard/director niqqas just suck at their jobs. |
MortalMelancholyOct 1, 2017 9:24 PM
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| This show's writing and dialogue is so bad. There were so many moments in this show where I was thinking "just shut the fuck up, you're talking way too much, and the way you talk is getting on my nerves". The fights scenes in this anime were pretty good though. Too bad the rest is garbage. |
BigBoyAdvanceOct 14, 9:17 AM
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