Kuzu no Honkai Episode 4 Discussion

Erika___ said:
What a bitch..............

Oh my god, please stop these two... You're digging your own grave, Ecchan </3


Goodness, what have you done to my Hanabi-chan! She's fucking lost it!

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
I don't get the "lick her lips" action for the teacher at the end. I mean, we understood she's bad. What's the point bringing this stupid cliché on top of it? Totally unnecessary.

Did the direction thought there were some 10 years old kids watching? Seriously.

Not a fan of the teacher's voice either.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
I don't get the "lick her lips" action for the teacher at the end. I mean, we understood she's bad. What's the point bringing this stupid cliché on top of it? Totally unnecessary.

Did the direction thought there were some 10 years old kids watching? Seriously.

Not a fan of the teacher's voice either.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
I don't get the "lick her lips" action for the teacher at the end. I mean, we understood she's bad. What's the point bringing this stupid cliché on top of it? Totally unnecessary.

FlamingMangos said:


I don't even understand why you would be bothered by that. I really don't. There are cliches in every media and in most anime shows. Should we keep questioning them? Hell, I can spend my entire life questioning every single thing in anime.

Toadesstern said:

because so far the strong point of the series (for me) has been that it gave us believeable characters. You don't just have 1 MC with a romantic interest cardboard cut-out but rather the other person (Mugi) is also treated like an actual person of himself with his own thoughts and feelings. In fact ep3 hammered that home pretty hard (my fav scene of the series so far). Same can be said about Ecchan. Sure the setting is unrealistic as fuck but it's fiction after all and you have to make that leap and just take it for granted. That's why it was my own favorite series of the season so far.
The teacher however is fairly unbelieveable for me as she's just portrayed as some comic-like villain rather than an actual person of her own. Maybe we're going to get some explanation for this but so far I just can't take her seriously like this...

Toadesstern said:

The teacher however is fairly unbelieveable for me as she's just portrayed as some comic-like villain rather than an actual person of her own. Maybe we're going to get some explanation for this but so far I just can't take her seriously like this...

Fappa said:


I think that depends on what your knowledge entails about real life people and their desires. I know 2 people that totally share some traits with Akane and thinking about what desires and fetishes humans are actually able to develop, romantic exploitation is not too far off. Some people simply have the desire to mess with others, they want to feel superior and the only way the can get this kick is through what their "abilities" allow. Akane is a visually stunning woman and she plays with her feminine charm that entangles people into her trap. This is how she expressed her superiority and this is what gives her life.

For other people it's success in your job, friendship, hobby, certain "products" or a pure long lasting relationship. There are morally acceptable and morally questionable things that fulfill you in life and well Akane certainly goes into the more twisted territory. Of course the anime takes all of that and exaggerates it but this part of fiction and even more so anime. So for me she totally fits into this series whose name is totally in line with what and who she is.

Toadesstern said:

because so far the strong point of the series (for me) has been that it gave us believeable characters. You don't just have 1 MC with a romantic interest cardboard cut-out but rather the other person (Mugi) is also treated like an actual person of himself with his own thoughts and feelings. In fact ep3 hammered that home pretty hard (my fav scene of the series so far). Same can be said about Ecchan. Sure the setting is unrealistic as fuck but it's fiction after all and you have to make that leap and just take it for granted. That's at least why it was my own favorite series of the season so far.
The teacher however is fairly unbelieveable for me as she's just portrayed as some comic-like villain rather than an actual person of her own. Maybe we're going to get some explanation for this but so far I just can't take her seriously like this...

Just to make this clear: I still like the show and I don't have a problem with people having different opinions on this. Just since you asked I thought I might as well explain why some might not have liked it.

Toadesstern said:
The teacher however is fairly unbelieveable for me as she's just portrayed as some comic-like villain rather than an actual person of her own. Maybe we're going to get some explanation for this but so far I just can't take her seriously like this...

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:


I mostly agree with you. Akane is the weak point of the story because not so credible.

However I was pointing on a detail for her depiction. Sure she has a "weird" motivation (why not?) but they even added in the anime (it's not in the manga) the kid-anime-cliché of the nasty villain licking his lips to show how fun it is to be evil. The script writer and director should refrain to make Akane even less credible than she already is in the manga.

As for her voice-actress, I have the feeling she doesn't fit.

Having said that, Akane is not the main character. Like you, I enjoy the show even though I don't expect it to be perfect, Mugi childhood friend was also a bit off the mark.

T3hSource said:
What do you mean? She's the best character so far. She has the best basis: I am narcissist seeking attention because it "feels good". So far, that's the best, most honest motivation we've had so far! How are Hanabi, Mugi and Ecchan better?

Toadesstern said:

yeah but that's the thing. "twisted" really is an understatement. I didn't get the feeling that she's twisted, I got the feeling that she's literally evil, which isn't something I'd ever call someone as in "that person is 100% evil".
Making her a bit more nuanced so that we could see some good things about her rather than just this villain character would help me take her seriously... I can get behind people having flaws and being imperfect and like I said, that's the reason I liked the series so far but this is character is going too far for me personally.

But oh well, like I said it was just an explanation as to why some people might not have liked it.

Toadesstern said:

because Hanabi, Mugi and Ecchan are confused teenagers that don't even know what they are themselves, rather than one specific character to the extreme.
Sure there are some psycho's out there but most (real) people I meet aren't characters I'd dare to describe in such a simplistic way but instead a mix of a lot things.

Fappa said:


But the show made effort to exactly showcase how she has her legitimate reasons. That what she does is not for the sake of being evil but that it has a reason beyond what you can see on the surface level.

What I see is an incredibly vulnerable person that is so insecure about engaging into emotional relationship with people out of the fear of being exploited herself that she holes herself up and hides behind some sort of fetish she developed and found comfort in. In my opinion she sees the people around her less as people but the means for her own satisfaction which again seems to be a result from this exact fear from said people. In the episode it is even mentioned how she is a horrible judge of character and she wouldn't know whether someone was a genuinely good person or not unless someone outright tells her that. To me that's more than telling just how inexperienced she is about open and honest inter personal relationships which again goes hand in hand with this whole motif of anxiety.

I wouldn't be surprised if Akane turns out to be most insecure, vulnerable and hurt person in the entire series.

So yeah there is definitely a background that opens up a whole new side beyond this evil persona of hers, you just gotta read the tiny little hints the show gives you in advance.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:


I Agree 100% on this.

From my (indirect) experience, womanizers and man-eaters are people who most of the time don't care about others feelings, but they don't enjoy being evil neither try to destroy people, they just want to fuck and don't care about the rest. Hier Akane has the mentality of a child who's trying to bully Hanabi just "because" without really showing the hate or the possible inferiority complex.

Toadesstern said:

yeah I got that and yes, she's obviously the most insecure out of the cast. They made that fairly obvious through the episode with her saying that she doesn't want to have the same experience her friend had and no it doesn't help her for me so far but I'm going to end it at this since like I said, I like the series and don't want to piss off people in here :P

Mentar said:
I'm almost surprised how generally constructive the discussion has been so far :) ... honestly, I expected a sea of flames right now.

Ysad_Ziwezhan/Toadesstern: Keep in mind that this anime has the habit to first introduce a character in a surprising/shocking way, people then complain about this character being "unrealistic", and then they are fleshed out with many more details afterwards. This will be particularly true for Akane, who I consider the second most important character in the show after Hanabi.

Also, I suggest to keep a very close eye on what truly moves Akane. Is it really lust? Or is it something different? I suggest you rewatch her scenes, because ep4 handles her very well.

This is also why Hanabi is actually wrong: She is _not_ like Akane, no matter what she believes. Her "evil inner child" (which was a fantastic scene that gave me goosebumps) channeling her self-denigration says so, but think about it: For what reason did Hanabi and Akane do what they did? Are they really the same?