Panty &amp; Stocking with Garterbelt Episode 5 Discussion

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Oct 2009

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seraphjei said:
Poor storytelling? How so? The plot was played straight and done with a strong undertone in mind as well as several key aspects that work as themes. The execution was pretty creative and the scenes were well storyboarded with adequately believable dialog and good use of atmosphere and overall tone. You mentioned a plot hole (the dual birthday fiasco) that is almost negligible in the grander scheme of the episode, and worked merely as a plot device to push the story forward. Is it a good plot device? Not really, but it does it job.

See, that kind of plot device just might as well not exist. It was to me a waste of time and effort, confusing me over something that didn't actually matter, but still made me have to go over the episode twice to understand what they were actually trying to go for.

Also all the characters in the workplace were just totally abruptly introduced, and for about half the episode I was wondering who (besides the "main" character) was who in all the exchanges. Again it's the kind of thing where they have elements that took me more than one view to understand.

The scene in the work lockers with him barely visible showing how emotionally dead he is inside was well executed, and done with proper gravitas. It was a good scene.

It was by far the best bit to have come out of Panty and Stocking thus far, and saying it has "poor storytelling" seems harsh. Was the second part a revolutionary look at the Japanese work force and the emotional and mental strain of metropolitan life? No, it's not, but it certainly wasn't "poorly done"

Your mentioned scene was one of the better ones.

I wasn't expecting something revolutionary. But for an episodic series, everything should generally make sense immediately the first time it is viewed. When you take as much time to emphasize unnecessary details as the 2nd part did (side characters, the birthday event), and still come off as confusing and abrupt, something under storytelling failed a lot. I'm not arguing that what they were going for was bad. It was just presented badly in several places.

Perhaps you meant the show has poor storytelling as a whole, then I agree with you fully. But I doubt the director or the writers for this show intended it to have have a dynamic plot come full circle by season's end. This show is about as episodic as any series can be.

You misunderstand. Most of the episodes in this show have good storytelling. Everything that matters is presented in a rather clear manner, and they don't waste much time moving from detail to detail. This is the opposite of what happened in the specific part I'm complaining about. And this is completely different from P&S having shallow characters and plot (as well as drastic inconsistency in their creativity, which is the REAL shortcoming of this show).

I think you're critiquing this series in a way that wasn't intended. It was never in the staff's interest to provide a thought-provoking and well crafted story. Panty & Stocking is a Saturday morning cartoon on steroids, and I think it accomplishes that very well. But should we praise the staff and hand out shiny medals? Fuck no. The studio executed what they set out to do, I'll give them that, but what merits does the show have that builds from the onset of the series? I'm still watching to find out. As for me, little tidbits like the second part for this episode was quite interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed it despite it being somewhat unnecessary in the context of the show.

More accurately, I'm probably critiquing this in a way you weren't expecting. I'm pretty aware of what this show is trying to accomplish for the most part, given that its entire premise is generally meant to be a deviation of what is commonly accepted in anime. My complaints are how the show goes about accomplishing that, which I believe they leave much to be desired about half the time.

And I am implying that the other half of the time, they do actually do a good job.

Perhaps the show isn't your cup of tea, and if so, I highly advise you to drop it and give it whatever score you believe it deserves based on your objective and subjective analysis of the show based on it's merits and faults. Otherwise I think you're in for a rough ride because the show doesn't seem like it'll change course anytime soon. Shows like this always have diverging opinions, you seem very grounded to your stance, but I'm still undecided.

You misunderstand my stance on this show. I think it's an overall decent average-quality show, but I'm not particularly in agreement with most of the people who believe that this show is the best thing ever. I also believe most of the people who say this show is crap don't know what they're talking about.

I also don't drop shows that I start watching (exceptions for those ongoing Shonens). I generally believe in watching shows to completion before rating them. Shows like Element Hunters and Sora no Otoshimono are a good example of why I believe that is important when it comes to decent shows that a lot of people dismissed as mediocre before they actually got good.

Plus, you don't seem to understand that I find critiquing and semi-heated intelligent discussion fun and entertaining. I am in fact trying to provoke responses like the ones you and garfield15 made. Even the most awful show ever, take The Sacred Blacksmith, can be "fun" to watch as long as there is a smart discussion about how laughably awful it is.

A2ZOMGOct 30, 2010 3:38 PM

Oct 30, 2010 3:59 PM

#56

Saber2248

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Mar 2008

512

Captain-Z said:
This show fucking sucks

This show sucking fucks.

But really its weird shit and that's why it's awesome.

Oct 30, 2010 4:44 PM

#57

Marow

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Dec 2009

1948

The second part was lovely, the best part together with the chase-part in episode 1.

I have my own anime blog. It's called Anime Viking. Hope you'll you read it!

Oct 30, 2010 5:28 PM

#58

Yuki_Giou

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May 2010

259

Gross episode.

Oct 30, 2010 5:33 PM

#59

DonKangolJones

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Aug 2008

3777

uh wow! This show did it again with this episode. They've covered most of the gross out humor I can think of, unless they start peeing on each other or something (which wouldn't surprise me at this point). The second part was a really, REALLY weird change of pace. I wasn't sure I completely got used to it until the near end of the episode. Still, I really enjoyed the end result.

Oct 30, 2010 6:13 PM

#60

Project_MkUltra

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Dec 2009

217

This episode really sucked. Especially the 2nd half.

Seriously expected better.

Oct 30, 2010 6:26 PM

#61

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Oct 2007

3471

Well, that was one boring episode. And remember this is a comedy show and not a story telling show.

"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."

Oct 30, 2010 7:18 PM

#62

head-go-boom

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Mar 2009

211

Don't hate on me for this, I've given P&S a fair chance, but I don't know, I think I might just drop this. I mean, the second half was pretty cool, but we all know that the rest of this show will just be what we've seen so far- sex jokes and potty humor.

If this show actually does change from that, please do let me know. Otherwise, I think I'll just stop here until I feel a calling to go back to it. Sorry, guys.

Oct 30, 2010 7:55 PM

#63

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Oct 2007

3471

head-go-boom said:
Don't hate on me for this, I've given P&S a fair chance, but I don't know, I think I might just drop this. I mean, the second half was pretty cool, but we all know that the rest of this show will just be what we've seen so far- sex jokes and potty humor.

If this show actually does change from that, please do let me know. Otherwise, I think I'll just stop here until I feel a calling to go back to it. Sorry, guys.

And you know the show is not going to change anything unless they are trying to sell the show with something else.

"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."

Oct 30, 2010 9:53 PM

#64

Hellicus99

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Jul 2010

garfield15 said:

Yeah, Vomiting Point was the best one so far to me even if it was totally depressing.

I'm with you here. 5b = favourite episode so far.

Oct 30, 2010 11:13 PM

#65

animegeek4life

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Jun 2008

988

Both parts were really gross and the 2nd part was also super weird.

My least favorite episode so far this season.

1/5.

Oct 30, 2010 11:37 PM

#66

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Oct 2009

360

Let's be frank. This show has animated things that no other show would dare to broadcast on Japanese TV.

Thus the real reason to watch this show is in fact the animated sex jokes and grotesqueness alike, which I believe that they manage to demonstrate creatively about half the time, and warrants praise. As a jab to what we know as commonly acceptable in anime, that part of the show is refreshingly ingenious. But if that's something you fail to appreciate, then there really isn't anything left of this show that really stands out.

The other half of the show has been generic in a bad way. A bad way as in they can't really develop their plot and characters feasibly when they were deliberately meant to be shallow. And a large percentage of the jokes they attempt come off as forced or mindless and usually not that relevant to what actually is going on. So as a comedy this show generally fails.

A2ZOMGOct 30, 2010 11:41 PM

Oct 31, 2010 12:11 AM

#67

Good_Loser

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May 2010

136

Captain-Z said:
This show fucking sucks

This.

I very much liked the second half of this epsisode, and I actually came to the episode discussion thread expecting Gainax lovers to loved that part as well, but a lot did not. I just don't get it. How can you love this ridiculously terrible series, but hate the one good story arc it had?

Good_LoserOct 31, 2010 12:15 AM

Oct 31, 2010 1:02 AM

#68

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Oct 2009

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I personally find it truly amusing that you called the 2nd part a "good story arc". When in fact it has some of the worst implementation of storytelling devices that P&S has ever used. In terms of abruptly introducing characters and transitioning between some of the events that is.

And I'd like you to elaborate what makes this series so obviously ridiculously terrible.

A2ZOMGOct 31, 2010 1:07 AM

Oct 31, 2010 1:07 AM

#69

AlexSadist-sama

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Mar 2009

65239

Boogers and puke.. people better not be eating when watching this ep.

Oct 31, 2010 2:03 AM

#70

botch

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Apr 2009

248

Osamu Kobayashi, nicely done!

Oct 31, 2010 2:59 AM

#71

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Oct 2009

360

By the way, I just wanted to say:

Nyron from episode 1 discussion said:
This topic is fantastic, my list is of awful MAL users is growing exponentially

Show is awesome as ten shits btw. I'm waiting for Retro, Pandy and Bayonetta to make cameos

btw everyone should check out my review. It's not hard to find, considering it's #1 and will remain as such until the end of eternity

LOL AT THIS. RedFoxofFire is TOO GOOD FOR YOU.

Oct 31, 2010 3:22 AM

#72

Wishy

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Mar 2008

686

Second half was really amazing.

BTW I didn't really read the discussion that's going on here but remember, always look at someone's anime list to see if it's even worth discussing, I haven't watched much, but some people watched like 20 shows and have no knowledge about many art-styles or possible parodies, therefore they just won't be able to appreciate some stuff here. This show is quite weird, Gainax really wanted to take a risk with this, and they've done it. It's dirty humor, adult humor, not your typical moe shit (which I actually like by the way). Hates gonna hate, people who just want to see shounen/moe will, of course, hate. And well, let's say I've red many people say that the second half of this episode was bad. All I have to tell them, buddy, if you don't really get what it was about, just drop it because you're wasting your time. Some guys told me the animation was bad and depressing, when the point was that, the characters were drawn like that because the main idea was them to look "sad", while as you could saw, the backgrounds were really well done. Plus Panty and Stocking were like always, shiny, really standing out of the rest. You can say tons of things about that detail, what I think: the idea was to show how a poor salesman saw them as something else, as goddesses or whatever you want to call them.

My english suck and it took my some time to write that, I don't really want to get into a neverending discussion. Just wanted to say my opinion and that bashing each other about this show is dumb. It's new stuff, rare stuff, like always Gainax do, people will love it or hate it, that's how it works, but most people hating it won't be able to give a solid argument, because they will mainly hate it because, in my opinion of course I may be wrong or w/e, they can't appreciate some stuff in there.

That's all.

WishyOct 31, 2010 3:32 AM

Oct 31, 2010 7:43 AM

#73

ocathalain

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Jul 2009

166

Portw00d said:

Captain-Z said:
This show fucking sucks

I'm not sure why you think Gainax lovers would love that part in particular; at the moment, Gainax seems to be more recognised by their weird, over the top shows rather than the more serious ones. I don't think the second half was bad, but it doesn't really fit P&S. The transition from LOLBOOGERS to something serious is jarring; especially for those of us who are watching this and just expecting to see a bit of silly humor rather than something 'deeper'.
Really, it just proves something that's been apparent with this show from the start- it seems to be a 'love it or hate it' thing, with very little middle ground.

If any of my posts seem odd, it's probably because I'm tired. Sorry. I have sleeping issues.

Oct 31, 2010 9:43 AM

#74

head-go-boom

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Mar 2009

211

No no, the whole animation style and music and all that was pretty much /the reason/ I started watching this show. And at first, all the things that they did that are "unacceptable in the anime world" made me go, "Whoa, I can't believe they're doing this! That's pretty bold." But after a while, it kinda got old for me.
Like I said guys, don't hate on me for it. Besides, I'm thinking of just putting this "On Hold" rather than drop it. We'll see.

Oct 31, 2010 12:30 PM

#75

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Oct 2009

360

Wishy said:
Second half was really amazing.

No it wasn't. It suffers from meandering too long over unnecessary details and bad story telling devices to be really amazing. Not unlike most of the show, it really just wasn't funny at all either.

My english suck and it took my some time to write that, I don't really want to get into a neverending discussion. Just wanted to say my opinion and that bashing each other about this show is dumb. It's new stuff, rare stuff, like always Gainax do, people will love it or hate it, that's how it works, but most people hating it won't be able to give a solid argument, because they will mainly hate it because, in my opinion of course I may be wrong or w/e, they can't appreciate some stuff in there.

I neither love NOR hate this show. I think Gainax does some things well in this show such as deviation in art style and animating obscenities, and the rest of it is a generic unfunny failure of a comedy that struggles to do anything except forcing crude jokes.

Oct 31, 2010 1:06 PM

#76

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Aug 2009

2093

A2ZOMG said:

Wishy said:
Second half was really amazing.

No it wasn't. It suffers from meandering too long over unnecessary details and bad story telling devices to be really amazing. Not unlike most of the show, it really just wasn't funny at all either.

No it was amazing. It wasn't long at all, had all the details played out for us and the story was interesting upon realization of what it was doing. It wasn't really supposed to be that funny as the show normally is as it was to just Gainax trying something different.

Oct 31, 2010 1:20 PM

#77

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Oct 2009

360

At this point I'm probably arguing for the sake of quantitatively specifying how amazing the second part was. Which is of course silly.

Regardless of what they were accomplishing, I'm of the opinion that the way they went about it could have taken less time. Or presented with better detail. Doing either would have made it significantly better. I did not appreciate abrupt transitions (specifically concerning the birthdays) and character introductions that made me miss details about what was going on.

Oct 31, 2010 1:22 PM

#78

mulderman

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Jun 2007

1184

They've bested: Shit, Sperm, Boogers and now vomit. I expect they'll be tackling piss next time....

Goddamn Gainax! How am I even gonna explain this series to others now? Good stuff the second half was amazing, even though it was pretty depressing.

Oct 31, 2010 1:30 PM

#79

ManInBlack

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Jan 2009

290

I personally loved the second part of this week's show - from being the direct antithesis of the usual P&S animation style to it's wonderfully subdued and esoteric narrative.

I knew it wouldn't be to everyone's taste but I wasn't expecting the negativity it has received on these forums. Bottom line is that P&S is not your typical Anime show which it clearly declared from the first episode so whatever surreal and unique journeys it takes us on, one should really expect the unexpected.

Bravo I say!!

Oct 31, 2010 1:43 PM

#80

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Oct 2007

3471

garfield15 said:

A2ZOMG said:

Wishy said:
Second half was really amazing.

No it wasn't. It suffers from meandering too long over unnecessary details and bad story telling devices to be really amazing. Not unlike most of the show, it really just wasn't funny at all either.

So now let me ask you one easy question, what is this show all about?

"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."

Oct 31, 2010 1:50 PM

#81

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Aug 2009

2093

Siva said:

garfield15 said:

A2ZOMG said:

Wishy said:
Second half was really amazing.

No it wasn't. It suffers from meandering too long over unnecessary details and bad story telling devices to be really amazing. Not unlike most of the show, it really just wasn't funny at all either.

So now let me ask you one easy question, what is this show all about?

Gainax (specifically the TTGL staff) doing as much crazy shit as they can but at the same time doing something not often seen on a TV series even for one that airs late at night.

Oct 31, 2010 2:23 PM

#82

mulderman

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Jun 2007

1184

Siva said:

garfield15 said:

A2ZOMG said:

Wishy said:
Second half was really amazing.

No it wasn't. It suffers from meandering too long over unnecessary details and bad story telling devices to be really amazing. Not unlike most of the show, it really just wasn't funny at all either.

So now let me ask you one easy question, what is this show all about?

I think the largest part is Gainax giving the finger to an industry that only seems to care about pure magical moe schoolgirls these days.

Oct 31, 2010 3:55 PM

#83

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Oct 2007

3471

mulderman said:
I think the largest part is Gainax giving the finger to an industry that only seems to care about pure magical moe schoolgirls these days.

Well whatever they want to do is their problem. And a show that has the said pure magical moe schoolgirls in it doesn't mean it is a bad show and a show that doesn't have IT doesn't it is a good show either.

garfield15 said:
Gainax (specifically the TTGL staff) doing as much crazy shit as they can but at the same time doing something not often seen on a TV series even for one that airs late at night.

Trying something different is not a bad thing but doing something that is not really what the show is about, that is another case. It is something that the creator/director doing when they are running out of idea to do with the show. Well who am I kidding anyway. The show itself barely has any focus point to begin with.

"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."

Oct 31, 2010 3:58 PM

#84

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Aug 2009

2093

Siva said:
Trying something different is not a bad thing but doing something that is not really what the show is about, that is another case. It is something that the creator/director doing when they are running out of idea to do with the show. Well who am I kidding anyway. The show itself barely has any focus point to begin with.

Well, at the very least, one can't say they do the exact same thing all the time.

And how can they be running out of ideas on episode 5 of a 13 episode anime. Clearly, with an episode like that, they've got plenty of ideas in store.

Oct 31, 2010 4:27 PM

#85

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Oct 2009

360

mulderman said:
I think the largest part is Gainax giving the finger to an industry that only seems to care about pure magical moe schoolgirls these days.

That's what I thought when I saw the first episode, and if that is truly the case, the show has only managed to do that inconsistently. About half the time to be specific. The other half of the time the show is just a bad comedy with forced jokes and no real plot or character substance, or whatever part 2 of episode 5 was trying to accomplish.

The most that this series has going for it is the art style, which is one of the things that they have consistently done a good job with. Some of the topics they choose to animate are pretty interesting as well, but the show imo is completely boring when they do anything besides that, since they really can't fall back on characters or plot where they run out of good ideas. And the comedy is just bad.

A2ZOMGOct 31, 2010 4:30 PM

Oct 31, 2010 4:49 PM

#86

mulderman

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Jun 2007

1184

I for one love the comedy. And since humor is relative I can't speak for everyone. Beneath the huge amount of crude sex and poop jokes are also a goldmine of references to other shows for example. And the previous episode with Stocking on a diet was hilarious.

The episodes are totally batshit insane and with their short size and considering it's only 13 episodes, I don't think they'll run out of ideas. Panty and Stocking was thought up while the cast was taking a break after Gurren Lagann. They basically wrote down the stuff they wanted to do sometime and voila! Mind you most of the ideas where thought up while they were under the influence of alcohol and what not so that would explain the batshit insane part.

Oct 31, 2010 5:56 PM

#87

deg

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Jan 2009

101807

nice episode again

Oct 31, 2010 6:01 PM

#88

nateb39007

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May 2010

176

It wasn't really a great episode this week, but I still liked it.
-Hilarious on how picking ur nose is as exciting as having sex. lol oh Gainax.
-Sad story in part B of this week's episode, but I like the clash of artwork in this part. Better than part A I have to say.
-Somehow, I thought of part A to be sorta fast. Didn't really get me.
Overall I gave it a 4/5. Hopefully next week's episode would be better.

Oct 31, 2010 6:01 PM

#89

Pheefa

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Aug 2009

1092

Second half was surreal (in context)

Loved it

頭脳は子供、見た目は大人！ ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ

Oct 31, 2010 6:21 PM

#90

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Oct 2009

360

mulderman said:
I for one love the comedy. And since humor is relative I can't speak for everyone. Beneath the huge amount of crude sex and poop jokes are also a goldmine of references to other shows for example. And the previous episode with Stocking on a diet was hilarious.

It doesn't change anything that there's a lot of references to other shows. How does this make the comedy in any way redeeming? As far as I'm concerned, a huge percentage of the jokes are simply forced and have no real relevance to anything during the moment. That's how I objectively define poor comedy. And while it is true that there are variations in taste for humor, the fact of the matter is that there are consistent standards for it.

This isn't a show like Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei where the jokes are unpredictable, easy to absorb, to the point, and relevant to the situation. P&S's comedy is by far much lower quality. The crude tones aren't really a factor in this, but at the same time they don't help. The show just simply lacks good quality creative comedy. And before you tell me that crude humor and good quality creative comedy are an impossible mix, South Park says otherwise.

The episodes are totally batshit insane and with their short size and considering it's only 13 episodes, I don't think they'll run out of ideas. Panty and Stocking was thought up while the cast was taking a break after Gurren Lagann. They basically wrote down the stuff they wanted to do sometime and voila! Mind you most of the ideas where thought up while they were under the influence of alcohol and what not so that would explain the batshit insane part.

Running out of ideas? They literally did run out of good ideas as soon as episode 2 as far as I'm concerned.

Note how episode 2 was mostly bad comedy and depth-less misadventures of the main characters. They really weren't animating anything new that could be considered a deviation from commonly accepted anime devices (which is the actual draw towards this show), and their comedy still mostly sucked.

A2ZOMGOct 31, 2010 6:36 PM

Oct 31, 2010 7:08 PM

#91

chalco

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Oct 2009

230

fanoultimatev2 said:
i- i don't know what the heck did i saw... part A was unfunny and part B was weird. i'll give one mor chance to this series because this episode must be the worst of all.

i disregard what i said about part B. i rewatched it and was nice (but the art was weird indeed), and part A still sucked (Sugita didn't helped ;_;)

Vrrrrroooooooommmm!

Oct 31, 2010 9:32 PM

#92

Kagura89

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Jul 2009

492

mulderman said:
They've bested: Shit, Sperm, Boogers and now vomit. I expect they'll be tackling piss next time....

This

The 2nd half is very interesting with the way they presented it. Which is so contrast with all the madness this show provides.

Oct 31, 2010 9:33 PM

#93

Arpadiam

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Feb 2008

297

A2ZOMG, FFS , stop with the argue, is annoying...

good chap 4/5

I gona burn in Audiosurf the song "Fly away now fly away now FLY AWAAAAAYYYYY"

Oct 31, 2010 10:33 PM

#94

RazorBeamz

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Aug 2008

mulderman said:
They've bested: Shit, Sperm, Boogers and now vomit. I expect they'll be tackling piss next time....

Or blood.

Oct 31, 2010 10:44 PM

#95

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Oct 2009

360

K9001 said:
A2ZOMG, FFS , stop with the argue, is annoying...

good chap 4/5

I gona burn in Audiosurf the song "Fly away now fly away now FLY AWAAAAAYYYYY"

This is an episode discussion topic. I have just as much right to state my opinion as you and everyone else does. I don't care whether or not you agree, but I much prefer intelligent thought out responses. And I highly suggest you use the spellchecker on your posts. Especially since Firefox by default provides one.

Oct 31, 2010 11:08 PM

#96

Jigero

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Sep 2008

4406

garfield15 said:

because clearly coping Studio 4c's art style is proof of originality and not running out of ideas.

Panty & Stocking is like the girl is class who wears black, dyes her hair different colors, and says she likes a certain genre of music, without even knowing why she likes it, what makes it good, and just says for the sake of trying to sound original.

It's like the panty and stocking creators watched a bunch of low brow and shock comedy copied all the worst jokes and they have no idea what makes them funny.

there is such thing as having a terrible idea even if it's original

It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.

Oct 31, 2010 11:33 PM

#97

Samu-tan

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Aug 2009

2555

Come on you guys, why aren't you all voting 5/5?
This episode was the best one to date.
Episode A was absolutely hilarious, and B was shockingly touching, and I definitely didn't expect that from Panty & Stocking.
Amazing episode.

Nov 1, 2010 6:52 AM

#98

PeachyH

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Jun 2010

Enjoyed this episode alot, the second half was nicely done.

>_<

Nov 1, 2010 7:47 AM

#99