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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Well, it's over for poor Volken. Didn't even last half the ep and fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book. I pretty much knew the Church = Librarians thing, but it's nice for it to be out there... But...What happened to Olivia in the end...? Next ep, or maybe arc, is about Noloty again. I like her, so I hope she doesn't end up dead like everyone else I liked has. |
| Olivia transcended. It was a cool story bro, they killed pretty much the only interesting character. Having not read the manga, I'm a little confused as to who the villain actually is... Though, with that said, this show is so very predictable and unnecessarily cliche. |
| It was really sad to see Volken die especially so given that *he* could have killed her off but his naivety held him back. The portrayal of his death was so well executed that I really did feel like killing Hamyuts Meseta. A touching episode indeed. This show is definitely coming to an end given the shocking revelations happening after every episode. |
sanjaytsFeb 5, 2010 1:54 PM
ReaperEXE said: Having not read the manga, I'm a little confused as to who the villain actually is... Though, with that said, this show is so very predictable and unnecessarily cliche. The actual villain has not yet been revealed and reading the manga won't get you anywhere either, because they only released the first arc as far as I know (which is 'A bomb falls in love'). The only thing that will get you answers are the light novels. Well I so far don't think it's predictable in any way, sadly enough I'm spoiled by reading the amazon.jp text for the final 2 novels...but I still got surprised by Volken actually dying this arc. And yeah this was another end of an arc and I thought it was great...can't wait to read the novel 'Witch of Recollection', but I'm still only in the 2nd novel because I've got other stuff to read, too. Next one is 'Strawrope Princess' and I'm pretty excited to see how many episodes it will get. I'm starting to pray for another 13 episodes so that we'll get 39 as a whole, because they just finished volume 5 of 10 at episode 19...there's no way to cram 5 volumes into just 7 episodes and so far it's been a great anime and a great adaption, which is pretty rare. I don't want that to go to waste in the final 4 episodes... |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
Olivia transcended. It was a cool story bro, they killed pretty much the only interesting character. Having not read the manga, Why do people think that every anime is a manga adaptation? -_-' This is novel adaptation. I'm a little confused as to who the villain actually is... Not all stories have that element. Though, with that said, this show is so very predictable and unnecessarily cliche. In a cliche story, Volken would be the main protagonist and Hamy would have been defeated and thrown into a cell. In a cliche story, those librarians would side with Volken and with power of friendship and justice they would defeat the Librarians. There, few examples. I won't talk about predictability because that is subjective (tough people who make such comments are usually unable to predict correctly anyway (still remember the Phantom treads... everyone was yelling predictable no matter how their predictions in older treads did NOT happen -_-')) |
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| what an awesome episode. even better than episode 10! i'm impressed. let's hope the next ones to be as good as this one. |
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| So.. the episode was quite good overall. Olivia is an interesting character to me and I really didn't expect what was said in this episode. Nor did I think that bitch Hamyuts would actually end up killing Volken AND take his book away. (Two strikes, you're out bitch..) Since my fave character is dead now.. this anime is gonna be a drag for me. I'm probably just gonna watch it to see how horrible and miserable Hamyuts' death will be. And if Noloty ends up dying as well, I will drop this anime completely. |
| Seriously, I think Volken was just about everyone's favorite character. It definitely says something about how well the story is being told, and the characters are being developed, that when he died, I was SO angry I wanted to kill Hamy myself. The fact that a lot of people are reacting emotionally to the series is a testament to its profundity. |
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| Hmm strange i found the older episode's thread bickering Volken out, and in this thread we saying Volken is the only interesting char in this series..somehow i found Hamy is more interesting dunno why the boobs probably I didn't care about Volken's dead well a little because Mirepoc..but Olivia's story is really good See Lascall is that cute girl after all |
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Nayrael said: In a cliche story, Volken would be the main protagonist and Hamy would have been defeated and thrown into a cell. In a cliche story, those librarians would side with Volken and with power of friendship and justice they would defeat the Librarians. There, few examples. I won't talk about predictability because that is subjective (tough people who make such comments are usually unable to predict correctly anyway (still remember the Phantom treads... everyone was yelling predictable no matter how their predictions in older treads did NOT happen -_-')) Really? Seems extra juicy cliche to me. Hamy is somewhat of an antihero, and Volken was more so a rogue character than a hero. In fact, his character development and death is a necessary step into a storybook climax. Actually, the proper term for Volken is scapegoat; the unsuspecting idiot who gets blamed and scrutinized because of the responsibilities of others. I guess you completely ignored the pathetic fallacy and standard standoff-breakdown situation surrounding his death, because if that isn't cliche, then I don't know what is. It's kind of embarrassing to say that this show reminds me a lot of Brave New World and 1984, because it's not worthy of comparison. There are different kinds of cliches, it's not limited to the fairy tale standards you have. Nayrael said: Why do people think that every anime is a manga adaptation? -_-' This is novel adaptation. These days, I do not see how it would be an uncommon assumption to make. |
ReaperEXE said: Really? Seems extra juicy cliche to me. Hamy is somewhat of an antihero, and Volken was more so a rogue character than a hero. In fact, his character development and death is a necessary step into a storybook climax. Actually, the proper term for Volken is scapegoat; the unsuspecting idiot who gets blamed and scrutinized because of the responsibilities of others. I guess you completely ignored the pathetic fallacy and standard standoff-breakdown situation surrounding his death, because if that isn't cliche, then I don't know what is. It's kind of embarrassing to say that this show reminds me a lot of Brave New World and 1984, because it's not worthy of comparison. There are different kinds of cliches, it's not limited to the fairy tale standards you have. There are only so many ways to tell a story, or to approach an event. I agree that Volken's death was an inevitability - as much as some want him to be, he's not really a main protag. Mirepoc is - and his death was necessary to further Mirepoc's character development - at least, that's what I'm expecting in the coming episodes. However, I think the way they've crafted these arcs and characters is very unique. And I think it's this odd way of approaching the storytelling that makes people claim it's not cliche. And I agree, in that sense. |
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ReaperEXE said: Really? Seems extra juicy cliche to me. Hamy is somewhat of an antihero, and Volken was more so a rogue character than a hero. In fact, his character development and death is a necessary step into a storybook climax. Actually, the proper term for Volken is scapegoat; the unsuspecting idiot who gets blamed and scrutinized because of the responsibilities of others. I guess you completely ignored the pathetic fallacy and standard standoff-breakdown situation surrounding his death, because if that isn't cliche, then I don't know what is. It's kind of embarrassing to say that this show reminds me a lot of Brave New World and 1984, because it's not worthy of comparison. There are different kinds of cliches, it's not limited to the fairy tale standards you have. I think you're stretching terms a bit too much here. There's a difference between being referential, or using certain patterns and actually using clichés. Cliché is defined as being something that has been overused and is still so deeply rooted that it is hard to get rid of and which has therefore lost it's original intention. It therefore only exists as a stereotype in and for itself. The innocent maiden in a white dress, with flowing golden hair and blue eyes would be considered a cliché. Today, through better recording system, we have a much higher awareness of re-used images and characters, than the broad public had a hundred years ago. When Edogawa Ranpo introduced Kogoro Akechi almost nobody in Japan was aware that sometimes it was a direct rip-off of Poe's Dupin and Doyle's Holmes...today everybody would be screaming their head of because of it. Like KannoFan said, there are only a certain amount of ways a story can be told, after about 3000 years of storytelling it should be clear that it becomes rather hard to actually invent something NEW. And actually I prefer my characters to be well developed and based on a good formula than desperately innovative and shallow. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
seizonsha said: Like KannoFan said, there are only a certain amount of ways a story can be told, after about 3000 years of storytelling it should be clear that it becomes rather hard to actually invent something NEW. And actually I prefer my characters to be well developed and based on a good formula than desperately innovative and shallow. Indeed. This was the best episode for me so far. Am I the only Hamy fan? lol |
Shizuru said: Am I the only Hamy fan? lol I was flirting with the idea liking her, back in the early/mid-teens, but the late Volken arc reminded me of her true self! |
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| +1 with seizonsha's reasoning; I don't think of this story as a cliché. Just because a story draws parallel with another one, I wouldn't label it as a cliché. It's the story + the execution which makes or breaks an anime. The execution of this anime has been spectacular and unique and the story like no another. Of course, if they somehow manage to *revive* Volken, that would be a different story... :-) |
Shizuru said: Am I the only Hamy fan? lol At one point she was my fav char, but lately she's been getting more and more...boring? |
Shizuru said: seizonsha said: Am I the only Hamy fan? lol Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is dead.....Finally. I was screaming the whole episode: KILL HIM ALLREADY!!!! I couldn't stand that naive fool... Hamy is the best. But somehow I have a feeling that she will be a Lelouch type of character. I might be wrong though...I guess I'll just wait and see. |
| The spring I met you, The spring without you. |
| Wow charlot is fat enough to block Hami's stone ....Cool ^^ |
temporary said: The title is "a fool,a void and the dancing marionette."Shizuru said: Am I the only Hamy fan? lol At one point she was my fav char, but lately she's been getting more and more...boring? Hami is the void ,she is a fighting machine and nothing else.....If you idol her maybe because of her bitch personalities. |
gloryfy said: The title is "a fool,a void and the dancing marionette." Hami is the void ,she is a fighting machine and nothing else.....If you idol her maybe because of her bitch personalities. There is no void here. If this show has shown us something that is that there are no characters that are useless. Even when Volken died it felt sad because no meter of what kind of a fool he was ( or how much I hated him) he had a purpose. It is the same with all of the characters. And when Hamy dies, and I do believe she will, you'll se that she had a story and it will be equally sad. |
| The spring I met you, The spring without you. |
Kruxia said: And if Noloty ends up dying as well, I will drop this anime completely. Your future doesn't look bright lol. ReaperEXE said: Nayrael said: Why do people think that every anime is a manga adaptation? -_-' This is novel adaptation. These days, I do not see how it would be an uncommon assumption to make. Actually, if you look at the amount of series adapted from light novels, you will see a great increase. So wrong assumption. |
wakka9caFeb 6, 2010 12:29 PM
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| Fantastic episode, by far the best of the series so far. Nayrael said: Though, with that said, this show is so very predictable and unnecessarily cliche. In a cliche story, Volken would be the main protagonist and Hamy would have been defeated and thrown into a cell. In a cliche story, those librarians would side with Volken and with power of friendship and justice they would defeat the Librarians. You're right, Bantorra is definitely (despite mountains of flaws and limitations as an anime) the most thought-provoking series still broadcasted in Japan. It's basically of the only one evolving in a permanent anti-climactic and dark atmosphere. Only for that, I must say that I respect this series quite a bit. |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
RinM said: Well this anime will probably end up no bad or good guy anime....As for Hami,previous episode is well explain.Hami is a bitch before she join Library,unless the director gonna explain her childhood matter also.... And i think the title of this episode fit the characteristic of the 3 character in this episode >.< gloryfy said: The title is "a fool,a void and the dancing marionette." Hami is the void ,she is a fighting machine and nothing else.....If you idol her maybe because of her bitch personalities. There is no void here. If this show has shown us something that is that there are no characters that are useless. Even when Volken died it felt sad because no meter of what kind of a fool he was ( or how much I hated him) he had a purpose. It is the same with all of the characters. And when Hamy dies, and I do believe she will, you'll se that she had a story and it will be equally sad. |
gloryfy said: RinM said: Well this anime will probably end up no bad or good guy anime....As for Hami,previous episode is well explain.Hami is a bitch before she join Library,unless the director gonna explain her childhood matter also.... And i think the title of this episode fit the characteristic of the 3 character in this episode >.< gloryfy said: The title is "a fool,a void and the dancing marionette." Hami is the void ,she is a fighting machine and nothing else.....If you idol her maybe because of her bitch personalities. There is no void here. If this show has shown us something that is that there are no characters that are useless. Even when Volken died it felt sad because no meter of what kind of a fool he was ( or how much I hated him) he had a purpose. It is the same with all of the characters. And when Hamy dies, and I do believe she will, you'll se that she had a story and it will be equally sad. A void could also be Mirapok since she lost her dearest friend and possibly love interest. In the preview for this episode when the void was mentioned Mirapoke was there. And the fool was Volken. Also Maybe it was referring for the moment that she couldn't feel Volkens thoughts thus the void. Her childhood mater will be explained... there is no doubt about it. |
| The spring I met you, The spring without you. |
RinM said: gloryfy said: Mirepoc.....I totally forgot bout her....due to her appearance in this episode...hahahhaRinM said: gloryfy[/quote said: . |
gloryfy said: RinM said: gloryfy said: Mirepoc.....I totally forgot bout her....due to her appearance in this episode...hahahhaRinM said: gloryfy[/quote said: . Yeah well I thought about it and I believe that there are a couple solutions to the title. Even Hamy could be A dancing marionette (for reasons we don't know yet) for the same reason she could be a fool. But I would leave the void for Mirapok. It suits her best. |
| The spring I met you, The spring without you. |
RinM said: gloryfy said: I think Olivia is the marionette,since she is a meat and try to get back memory?How can meat request for such nonsense,i thought they are mindless freak,the lowest rank of the church ?RinM said: gloryfy said: Mirepoc.....I totally forgot bout her....due to her appearance in this episode...hahahhaRinM said: gloryfy[/quote said: . Yeah well I thought about it and I believe that there are a couple solutions to the title. Even Hamy could be A dancing marionette (for reasons we don't know yet) for the same reason she could be a fool. But I would leave the void for Mirapok. It suits her best. A marionette that wish to dance on her own with her own will.Her fat boyfriend set a bloody example i think.Even Hami is shock.....If meat are capable of doing such thing, I hope they just rebel against the church with the power of LOVE!!!!FTW MEAT ( NIKU ) |
| @gloryfy & RinM It seems that both of you are writing in each other's quoted posts making it seem that your entire post is nothing but a big *quote* block. :) |
sanjayts said: Its only half the page.....HAHAH@gloryfy & RinM It seems that both of you are writing in each other's quoted posts making it seem that your entire post is nothing but a big *quote* block. :) |
| Wimps. I still love Hamy.The hints at her backstory are getting me psyched, though It'll be just as good to have some Noloty time first. I used to hate Volken, and he was still annoying upon his return, but being foiled by Olivia really helped his character. I even teared up when he was dying-though IMO, Olivia's story was the best the series has seen yet, even if it was a huge coincidence for Charlot to not only be among the final Meats that got sent there, but see and follow Olivia. Oh, and she totally went to that 'Paradise' whatever that is yet to be explained. This ED is quite stunning. The OP less so, but it's pretty decent, and Mirepoc's moment is sheer win. |
| so the librarians are.. evil? so who exactly is the protagonist in this story? they just seem to keep killing them off |
the only way to stop a gamer from playing is either: beat them, or wait until they get bored (though 2% percent suffer seizures  |
kage-bunshin said: so the librarians are.. evil? so who exactly is the protagonist in this story? they just seem to keep killing them off I wouldn't say they're all evil. As Hamy pointed out, the fact that the church and the Armed Librarians coexist is a secret that only the acting director knows and possibly Mattalast and Kitty. All the other armed librarians and "true humans" are being commanded by the leaders to do their bidding. One thing I find intriguing. If the Armed Library was created by one of the gods to collect books and protect them and the church was created by the Armed Library to create the perfect book, then what might be the purpose of all this? |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
DeathfireD said: kage-bunshin said: so the librarians are.. evil? so who exactly is the protagonist in this story? they just seem to keep killing them off I wouldn't say they're all evil. As Hamy pointed out, the fact that the church and the Armed Librarians coexist is a secret that only the acting director knows and possibly Mattalast and Kitty. All the other armed librarians and "true humans" are being commanded by the leaders to do their bidding. And there is still the question what actually happened to Fotona. We know that Hamyuts was working almost as his right hand during the fights against the Violet Sinner and Vend Ruga. We also know that the Governor of Paradise told her back then already that she would make a good Acting Director and she was acting quite close to him. Now the question remains, how exactly does Fotona fit into the whole piece if he knew that the whole war between the Church and the Librarians was a sham to fool the public? One thing I find intriguing. If the Armed Library was created by one of the gods to collect books and protect them and the church was created by the Armed Library to create the perfect book, then what might be the purpose of all this? We also still have that big book-eating tree in one of the lowest basements of the library, which seems to feed on special books. So whatever this monstrosity is, they actually seem to have a certain form of fear or at least respect of it...which leaves the question what it exactly is. Well I have a hunch what it is from the blurb on the final 3 novels, but I'm still not exactly sure how it would fit in and concerning really reading the novels I'm still only in volume 2 because I want to finish 2 other books first. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Noloty and mirepoc will die....... |
gloryfy said: Is that suppose to be a spoiler? o_ONoloty and mirepoc will die....... |
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Laevantein said: nope...i think ,Lascal say it himself and the preview of this episode seems to give me this feeling.I just hope i am wrong =Pgloryfy said: Is that suppose to be a spoiler? o_ONoloty and mirepoc will die....... Lascal is the Grim reaper of this anime ~.~ |
MorningGloryFeb 8, 2010 6:12 AM
| Nice episode, too bad this show is so underrated. |
| Definitely a great episode. Was not so disappointed about Volken being killed because he was just too naive and he pretty much left for a good portion of the show without much mention of where he was. Frankly, I kinda forgot about him until he would be brought up in conversation. Not sure why everyone is so sad about him dying. He is not the main protagonist and in my opinion, there are many more worthwhile characters in this show. Not that he is a bad character, but he is just not that strong a character to me. I pretty much had the idea that once he started spewing out all that crap about serving justice, he was pretty much gonna die. And I have a feeling that his death will have a more profound effect on Mirepoc than he would be able to have if he was still alive. |
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| So, again, what was the point of Volken's character? He left early on in the series, disappeared for how many episodes, reappeared out of nowhere, got his mentor killed, and then...died. Great job, dude. What else did he do? What did he accomplish? The only thing I can think of is he protected Olivia, and since she was able to restore the memories to all the Meats, maybe this could possibly have some effect on the storyline? I have no idea. Whatever the case, she's in some fantasy land now. If it weren't for Hamyuts and Noloty, I would've dropped this anime a long time ago. This series is just far too convoluted for me. |
| And why there should be some obvious point? Well, I can find multiple of reasons: Volken did helped Olivia to restore her memories, to reget Ylucklucu war-machine and to survive director's attack, he also raised some doubts in Librarians ranks for his dead teacher's book will soon become an evidence of his innocence as well as Volken's book (which is also able to reveal some dirty secrets about Hamutz and the sect). I wonder how Meseta plans to hide those proofs. Also it feels like Mirepoch won't buy lies about evil Volken in any case, so she will for sure make some researches about his last hours. Etc. And I like those reasons wasn't thrown in our faces like absolute no-brainers. In most cases I really hate when someone's death did have an obvious point to the plot. Because it feels like a cheap plot device in most cases. Unexpected death is much more realistic and interesting. Awesome episode. |
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| ....fuck...Hamutz. Volken was my favorite character, and I was JUST starting to like Hamutz too. But fuck her D:< SHE KILLED VOLKEN! Bitch. |
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| Wish Volken had hurt Hamutz more. Seriously, she is probably one of the most annoying characters (along with Mirepoc and Noloty) in this show. This ep really only served to clarify what was hinted at in the last ep during the Governor of Paradise/Hamutz scene, but I'm thankful for at least that. Anybody else not give a shit about any of the characters? Well, I'm partial to Matt, but even that's waning... |
yamakasiFeb 13, 2010 9:37 PM
| NO! Volken! I dropped this before but I started again because I was curious what will happen to him but this...I totally didn't expect this kind of development. This was a great episode though and I don't really know why did I drop it before... |
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| Okay, say what you want about Volken (as for me, I started liking him only recently and now he's dead xp whatever), but his death scene was good. Kind of unoriginal, but I liked it. If it wasn't the end of part I of the streamed video I watched, which was massively anticlimax, I would've cried for sure xP But I have no idea what exactly happened to Olivia at the end. |
- If you believe this place holds you, it is a prison. If you do not wish to leave, it will become a fortress. Current icon: Kusuriuri from Mononoke by pana (LJ username) |
| Best episode so far. |
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| Very good episode. While i like Hamy as a main character because she is so radically different from what we would expect, i still find other characters more interesting, in this arc: Olivia. I guess i like other characters more than i like Hamy because this anime did not make me care much about her, maybe it will manage to do so in the last episodes who knows. also i noticed many hated Volken,as did i in after the 1st episode, still now that he is dead i found that his character was very interesting to follow, mainly because of his naivety and the way all of his perceptions of the armed librarians and their justice,that he thought was similar to its own, were completely shattered in the end. |
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