One Piece Chapter 850 Discussion

Dec 23, 2016 7:24 PM

#151

Zapredon

Offline

Aug 2008

4594

About Big Mom plan to massacre the Vinsmoke in wedding,anyone thought of Red Wedding from GoT?

But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion.

http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30

It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist.

Dec 23, 2016 7:47 PM

#152

Isterio

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

jal90 said:

The hell? This part was tackled in the chapter. We were shown the point of view of Luffy and Nami and it's clear that they interpreted her crying as mockery. She told Reijuu that she was a great actress and great at faking her feelings, so yes, it's perfectly plausible, actually perfectly in character from the little we've seen through this chapter, that she cries and gives that last cheerful/innocent look with the sole purpose of mocking the Straw Hats and their trust. "For no reason" almost sounds like there's never been sadistic villains who take delight in revealing their plot schemes to the heroes and making fun of them. It's not like it's a common battle shonen trope or anything :P

Oda didn't lie to us. Oda tricked us, which is substantially different. We didn't read the conversation Pudding had with Luffy and Nami, so we were missing crucial information to interpret that scene.

While I do see where you coming from let me explain why this isn´t sufficient enough for me to credit the execution of this plottwist as a good one and instead condemn it as a poor writing choice from Oda. I will quote multiple instances that lead up to this outcome and explain why I think the foreshadowing worked masterfully untill chapter 848 came around and broke it. Huge wall of text incoming so get some time ready.

It confirmed Pudding as a good person just for the sake of pulling a heelturn in chapter 450.

What´s gonna happen next? In chapter 458 30 chapters after her introduction we learn that she is Viola 2.0? Pudding was good all along?

IsterioDec 29, 2016 6:55 AM

Dec 23, 2016 9:38 PM

#153

Abyhape

Offline

Jan 2014

2634

holyshit, I knew it!

this might be the change to proof that Sanji is right, and makes his family acknowledge him.
I actually want Vinsmoke to be completely wipe out, they should pay off what they did to Sanji.
but it's okay too if Vinsmoke Family decided to become Straw Hat Army or at least help Luffy in his journey after what happened in this arc.

I saw chopper coming to save Luffy and Nami, then they're all rush to wreck the party.

My Anime List || My Manga List || My TV & Movie List

Dec 23, 2016 11:24 PM

#154

kleinerwolf

Offline

Mar 2008

365

wat the hell is tenshinhan sister!

Dec 24, 2016 1:23 AM

#155

JudgeRuthless

Offline

Oct 2007

2152

tiagra said:

Peralisc said:

so you have no counter argument and became hysterical out of desperation

Did he perhaps nominated you as his layer?!
(Let's assume you're)

"Hysterical" you called it, I call it "A steps down to their level".
If he brought a legit criticism like a mature being I would of respected him, well maybe.(putting the fact that Bleach is his favorite manga.
).
Criticizing the whole series in a one of One piece chapters discussion gives you an immediate idea of the person intention.

You want a legit argument give a legit criticism.

I never in my life heard of anyone becoming a layer. How is that even humanly possible?

Serious response though:
The plot twist was bad / forced. His comment makes sense in that regard. I can't take the plot twist serious either. It just does't add up.

He expressed exactly that in his post. The plot can't be taken seriously, it was definitely poorly executed. You won't go on ranting in great detail / write a novel about some in your face obvious story telling flaws. It would be a waste of time.

Also his opinion is perfectly summed up in few words. There is no need to elaborate more on what he thinks about this chapter.

JudgeRuthlessDec 24, 2016 1:32 AM

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Dec 24, 2016 2:00 AM

#156

4Dissinity

Offline

Jun 2016

220

Not really much of a surprise to me at all. Fully expected this to come, actually. Not a bad chapter tho, but yeah.

tiagra said:

LifeAlpha said:

You don't expect me to take you seriously after this post, do you? 'cause no way someone can take you seriously after this.
But hey, what do I know. Apparently chapter discussion only limits the discussion to the chapter itself, and being a 'Bleachtard fan' means your opinion on OP doesn't count.
You can just chill out tho. Help yourself by sayin' whatever can make you sleep better at night. :)

Were you serious?!
I mean it's the internet people can be assholes, mean, etcs, you shouldn't take them seriously.
So don't' let it bother you, you mocked one piece I mocked bleach.
The End.

But... this is about One Piece, as this is a One Piece discussion area. This is not about Bleach at all and it hasn't been mentioned even once. I see absolutely no reason to mention and mock Bleach just because someone else had a negative opinion over what had happened in One Piece in a place that is only about discussing about One Piece unless you're trying to initiate a negative reaction out of him just because he likes a particular series, which you clearly are.

And you say for him not to let your comment bother him because it's the Internet, but apparently his comment bothered you enough to use a series he likes and him being a fan of it against him as an insult and as a way of mocking him greatly to the point of making him incredibly embarrassed to even like it, even though Bleach hasn't been mentioned once before.

4DissinityDec 24, 2016 2:19 AM

Dec 24, 2016 12:20 PM

#157

GaaraSama83

Offline

Jan 2014

51

Hmmm, that surprised me. I'm not talking bout the fact that Pudding betrayed the SHs from the beginning (of course theat suprised me too), but more that she really could deceive Luffy and Sanji. Luffy has normally a fantastic instinct bout people although he is dumb and Sanji has the best instinct bout women in the whole SH crew. Remember at the beginning with Nami. He knew she didn't kill Usopp. Later in Water 7 he also knew immediately that Robin is lying bout wanting to leave the SHs.

So either Pudding is really a formidable actress or it has something to do with her 3rd eye. Maybe it's like "hiding" your inner personality when closed or something like that. I mean Sanji loves women, but still giving up so fast only because of the threat to kill Zeff and Baratie crew seemed somehow rushed and strange. On the other side he would do everything to protect the people he loves, whether it's his nakama from SH crew of Zeff and Co.

Dec 24, 2016 10:57 PM

#158

obsidian_storm

Offline

Oct 2015

545

G_Spark233 said:

Pedro was greatness in this chapter. Did he really gouge out his own eye? Wtf!

Damn you Pudding! Poor Sanji. As things are now SH and Germa 66 may team up against Big Mom.

Fake people have an image to maintain. Real people just don’t care.

Dec 25, 2016 10:03 AM

#159

xEzioAuditore

Offline

Nov 2015

674

That was a hell of a chapter. The third eye was expected.

But, Oda isn't idiot. There's no point of hurting Reiju and telling her the truth about the wedding. Pudding might be kind in the inside. She likes Capone and wants to be the succesor of BM maybe ?
Plus, Judge is one of the biggest assholes in One Piece. But like BB he's not a idiot. I believe Vinsomes are too much for BM to handle alone. I expect a Visomke tactical win.

Let's trust Oda. He sure knows how to do things right.

Dec 25, 2016 4:55 PM

#160

Amorim92

Offline

Oct 2015

11

My theory: She is actually a Bege allie.
In ch 199 she isn't indifferent, she doesn't like to be there and seems ever uncomfortable.

She also is acting really strange, she didn't need to do both actions where she reveal her "true" self, she goes out of her way. Also when she reveals to Strawhat and Nami she is whispering to them, as if she didn't want the other family members to hear. That's strange since she claims that only her family knows her true nature and that excludes any motive to whisper.

The conversation that Big Mom has with Luffy, she doesn't reveal her plan although she is provoked by him and it would be easy to simply say something like : "Shut Up you and your friend will die after the marriage. But she never says something like that, in fact she considers releasing Luffy. When they refer Pudding she doesn't even refer that they were tricked by her".

Another point to consider is the flashback Pudding has when she remembers Lola, which ends with: " I will decide my marriage (or fate)". This is important since she also remembers that Big Mom treats her like a doll(Puppet) and she decides everything she does. This is a clear indication that she is against Big Moms decision this time

So at this point, to me, this is enough to be sure that pudding actions =/= than Big Mom wishes.

So what motives can she have to go against Big Mom?
1. She does like Sanji and wants to be free with the SHP. Using the Vinsmoke as a decoy.
2. She is using the Vinsmoke + SHP against BM (Bege theory)

I didn't know which one I would bet as I could create points in favor of both. What convinced me that it was the second was a really stupid thing to be honest. The slug/blob that always follows Pudding. It does have a hat that resembles the ones used by Capone and crew but in - ch. 812 page 17 bottom mid - Capone appears as something similar with a hat.
This makes even more sense if you think that they made Luffy and Cracker meet in some way, weakening BM crew.

Also it wouldn't be surprising if the Supernova, which were first introduced as the "new generation that will rock the world" to destroy a Yonko. The plan is to get the remaining 2 Commanders and BM busy with Vsmoke + SHP and when she is weak, defeat her and take everything from her.

PS: Will post more "clues" later. Gnight and Merry Christmas

Dec 26, 2016 11:02 PM

#161

VLP_Senna

Offline

Feb 2015

37

Wow. You'd think it would've been easy to figure out pudding was evil, but that genuinely surprised me. I'm gunna guess that Sanji won't do anything about Pudding since she's a chick and all, but he'll save the Vinsmokes come the wedding which will make his family care about him. That's a challenge to you Oda! Keep on comin with those twists and prove me wrong, I dare you!

Dec 28, 2016 4:50 PM

#162

GanbatteBakemono

Offline

Jan 2014

172

Startling revelation ... but somehow I don't think Pudding is evil. This massive betrayal is the only way that Sanji will return to the Straw Hats and Pudding knows it. There's probably some perceptive or precognitive ability of her third eye that enables her to see potential future events that enabled her to predict where Sanji would be when he overheard her talking to Reiji. This wedding ceremony is going to be over-the-top.

Dec 28, 2016 6:36 PM

#163

WizYellow

Offline

Sep 2016

9

Holy crap. Prepare yourselves, I'm sensing somr Marineford action over here. Maybe someone important going to meet old man Roger? (Yes, dead)
My prediction:
Brook and Momma fight for hours without affecting each other, Momma gives up because of the marriage and leaves someone to keep Brook busy until she returns.
Chopper and Carrot going around hear Luffy screaming and manage to free him and Nami.
They start running to the place where the marriage will happen. They hear Brook's music coming from a room, break the room door and defeat by accident who was fighting Brook. They go now after Sanji. When they arrive there, one of the Vinsmoke is dead and Momma is beating Sanji. Somehow Brook knows something about Momma which forces her to stop the massacre and Luffy strangely falls back and leaves the island.

Probably something like this, most likely something completely different, but this arc is probably defining the rest of the manga (New crew member? More allies? Important deaths?). Btw I'm already missing Franky, Zoro, Usopp and Robin.

Dec 29, 2016 6:53 AM

#164

arhinub

Offline

Sep 2016

6

Wow! It was unexpectedly )

Dec 29, 2016 3:54 PM

#165

HalibelTheEspada

Offline

Jun 2012

1347

Isterio said:

I mean, if you didn't think it was clever or whatever, that's one thing... but honestly that comparison makes zero sense at all. Both of those types things happen all the time, in every series I've ever seen. But that scene in Naruto, and this situation in One Piece aren't even remotely similar.

If anything it's more akin to the moment when:

This is nothing like the scene you just gave. That sort of thing happens plenty in One Piece too though... such as when Luffy gets his head punched early on and it looks like he's decapitated, and lo and behold, he's made of rubber! Or when Law "killed" Smoker, but then you realize he just took his heart, or when Zoro "killed" Monet, but then you realize he didn't use Haki. There's a huge difference between a cliffhanger and a momentary ruse.

What you said is the equivalent of when someone gets shot in a movie, and then it ends up that they were wearing a medalion exactly where they were shot. What happened here is the whole

scenario where you believe he's good and then he's not, because the other one was the true bad guy the whole time.

It's as simple as that. It's not a cop-out no matter how you look at it, it's simply a plot device. If there's 2 options, and according to you either way is a cop-out, then how do you decide which is the better option? You would be just as unhappy with the alternative. You're basically saying that somehow there is no good way to handle Pudding's character.

HalibelTheEspadaDec 29, 2016 4:01 PM

Dec 29, 2016 4:28 PM

#166

Isterio

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

HalibelTheEspada said:

It's as simple as that. It's not a cop-out no matter how you look at it, it's simply a plot device. If there's 2 options, and according to you either way is a cop-out, then how do you decide which is the better option? You would be just as unhappy with the alternative. You're basically saying that somehow there is no good way to handle Pudding's character.

I read through 35 chapters to get ths essay together, therefore I won´t give you a seperate one and wil just quote myself. Since you accuse me of hating this series you may at least acknowledge that I pay attention to it´s details and stfu with your half baked attempts at devalueing my claims.

Isterio said:

jal90 said:

The hell? This part was tackled in the chapter. We were shown the point of view of Luffy and Nami and it's clear that they interpreted her crying as mockery. She told Reijuu that she was a great actress and great at faking her feelings, so yes, it's perfectly plausible, actually perfectly in character from the little we've seen through this chapter, that she cries and gives that last cheerful/innocent look with the sole purpose of mocking the Straw Hats and their trust. "For no reason" almost sounds like there's never been sadistic villains who take delight in revealing their plot schemes to the heroes and making fun of them. It's not like it's a common battle shonen trope or anything :P

Oda didn't lie to us. Oda tricked us, which is substantially different. We didn't read the conversation Pudding had with Luffy and Nami, so we were missing crucial information to interpret that scene.

While I do see where you coming from let me explain why this isn´t sufficient enough for me to credit the execution of this plottwist as a good one and instead condemn it as a poor writing choice from Oda. I will quote multiple instances that lead up to this outcome and explain why I think the foreshadowing worked masterfully untill chapter 848 came around and broke it. Huge wall of text incoming so get some time ready.

It confirmed Pudding as a good person just for the sake of pulling a heelturn in chapter 450.

What´s gonna happen next? In chapter 458 30 chapters after her introduction we learn that she is Viola 2.0? Pudding was good all along?

Itachi´s plottwist was infinetly better written, this one on the other hand is the equivalent of giving us that last revelation about Itachi just to revive him immediately after his fights vs Sasuke with him screaming.

I WAS EVIL ALL ALONG SASUKE TOBI LIED TO YOU!

Jan 3, 2017 10:44 PM

#167

Mirorin

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Jul 2011

4411

LOL WTF. Didn't expect Pudding to be evil. xD

Jan 20, 2017 10:53 AM

#168

ibraheem234

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Dec 2014

12524

pudding showed her true colours....... sad to see her like this

Jan 24, 2017 4:05 PM

#169

ashfrliebert

Offline

May 2015

2360

GaaraSama83 said:
Hmmm, that surprised me. I'm not talking bout the fact that Pudding betrayed the SHs from the beginning (of course theat suprised me too), but more that she really could deceive Luffy and Sanji. Luffy has normally a fantastic instinct bout people although he is dumb and Sanji has the best instinct bout women in the whole SH crew. Remember at the beginning with Nami. He knew she didn't kill Usopp. Later in Water 7 he also knew immediately that Robin is lying bout wanting to leave the SHs.

So either Pudding is really a formidable actress or it has something to do with her 3rd eye. Maybe it's like "hiding" your inner personality when closed or something like that. I mean Sanji loves women, but still giving up so fast only because of the threat to kill Zeff and Baratie crew seemed somehow rushed and strange. On the other side he would do everything to protect the people he loves, whether it's his nakama from SH crew of Zeff and Co.

Nami abuses his chivalry in virtually every volume, I don't know about that.

ゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Jul 7, 2017 8:42 AM

#170

Han-yuu

Offline

Jul 2010

2286

Red Wedding !!!!!

Oct 17, 2017 1:44 AM

#171

mintkat

Offline

Jan 2016

407

I guess this is the only way Oda could've written Sanji out of this corner...

Nov 1, 2017 1:36 AM

#172

DiabloMask

Offline

Jan 2009

894

I had a feeling that Pudding was evil in the beginning, but later on I changed my mind, God dammit!
So Oda is planning for a Red Wedding, huh? except this is One Piece no Game of Thrones, so of course Sanji is gonna accidentally hear Pudding explaining the whole thing in details for no reason so he can stop it from happening.

May 17, 2018 5:41 PM

#173

Ulquiorra

Offline

Feb 2013

24142

Pudding is evil, lol, it's tough to be Sanji right now.
I'm eager to see the Vinsmoke's except Reiju get killed like the fools they are.

Sep 22, 2018 1:01 PM

#174

joe_g7

Offline

Dec 2015

15143

Massacre the Vinsmokes? That doesn't sound so bad actually.

"At some point, I stopped hoping."

Oct 27, 2019 8:57 AM

#175

Saurian_X

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Mar 2019

137

Meh, saw this coming a while away

Sep 15, 2020 11:51 AM

#176

Yuai

Offline

Jul 2019

56

Why the hell Pudding telling that the people who are supposed to be exterminated ?? Make no sense.

Aug 6, 2022 9:49 AM

#177

PurPuleT

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Nov 2020

162

poor sanji can't catch a break

Sep 29, 2022 6:40 AM

#178

Aritabias

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Feb 2021

365

The twist with Pudding was to be expected but it was surprising at the same time lol.

Nov 6, 2022 1:02 PM

#179

RioFS

Offline

May 2021

59791

Oh my god Oda, please stop bullying Sanji.

Jun 3, 2023 10:20 PM

#180

gannoncannon55

Offline

Dec 2022

4467

hooo boy! just knew Pudding was too good to be true! talk about a bombshell, and little does she know it's her great acting that got Sanji so warmed up to her which will be her ruin!

Jun 14, 7:29 PM

#181

Ston3_FreeN7

Offline

Jun 2009

15302

I can honestly say I did not see that coming. Maybe earlier in the arc when we first met her I kind of flirted with the idea. But by the time this turn happened....nah, it got me. Explains why Luffy was acting the way he was earlier in the chapter.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Sep 25, 2:24 AM

#182

Yoshirou2

Offline

Mar 2023

3

One of the craziest series of plot twists in the Wholecake island arc!

Nov 16, 4:05 AM

#183

Ranxomare

🥊 CHAMPION 🥊

Offline

Apr 2016

23523

Pudding, a radical change, she is diabolic....
... and Big Mom worst!!!
kekeke

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