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Nov 13, 2023 9:11 AM
#1
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I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.
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Nov 13, 2023 9:13 AM
#2
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AoT fans are hitting hard on copium yet again and they feel compelled to make a thread about it. Who would have guessed?
Nov 13, 2023 9:15 AM
#3
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Soon it will surpass Breaking Bad, Band of the brothers & Chernobyl man trust me
Nov 13, 2023 9:18 AM
#4

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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

The rating of Aot going from 9.0 to 9.1 have nothing to do with the airing of the ending episode. It was already 9.1 for quite some time, a few months, actually.
Nov 13, 2023 9:36 AM
#5

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Game of Thrones is actually a really interesting case study. It was the hottest, most talked about show for the latter half of its run, only to be practically erased from popular culture after that ending.

Nov 13, 2023 10:02 AM
#6
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Reply to Dowapo
AoT fans are hitting hard on copium yet again and they feel compelled to make a thread about it. Who would have guessed?
@Dowapo Copium for who? The people who are bieng proven right?🤣🤣🤣

This isn't Copium mate. This is vindication and feels good.

Also it's a little bit me rubbing it innthe faces of people who were so sure for 2 years that everyone will hate teh ending.
Nov 13, 2023 10:03 AM
#7
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Reply to Ayanokamisama
Soon it will surpass Breaking Bad, Band of the brothers & Chernobyl man trust me
@Ayanokamisama Yeah, I don't see that happening. 9.1 is probably the limit.

But still it increasing at all is win and a surprising one at that.
Nov 13, 2023 10:05 AM
#8
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Reply to MKIkawa
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

The rating of Aot going from 9.0 to 9.1 have nothing to do with the airing of the ending episode. It was already 9.1 for quite some time, a few months, actually.
@MKIkawa No. It was 9.1 and then went back to 9.0 before the Finale. I remember specifically checking it before the finale.

I think it was around the time when some One Piece fans review bombed AoT. Or maybe not.
But it was definitely 9.0
Nov 13, 2023 10:06 AM
#9
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@blind_psychic People who want to get a consensus of the views of general audiences and not Weebs or Manga readers who tend to have very extreme views in anime.
Nov 13, 2023 10:10 AM
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Reply to ForeverTraitor
Game of Thrones is actually a really interesting case study. It was the hottest, most talked about show for the latter half of its run, only to be practically erased from popular culture after that ending.
@ForeverTraitor Agreed.

I had seen Seasons 1-5 of GoT 5 times before the Final season aired.

Season 6 about 2 times and season 7 just once.

I was fully ready to binge the entire show from start to end once the final Season aired.

And after Season 8 aired. I have not rewatched GoT a single time. I just couldn't.

But I honestly don't see the same happening with AoT as a lot of people were and some still are claiming.
Nov 13, 2023 10:24 AM

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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@MKIkawa No. It was 9.1 and then went back to 9.0 before the Finale. I remember specifically checking it before the finale.

I think it was around the time when some One Piece fans review bombed AoT. Or maybe not.
But it was definitely 9.0

I saw the opposite then, how strange
Nov 13, 2023 10:34 AM
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It was 9.1 before.
Check out the final ep's rating, 8.6. Compared to other episodes from S4, it's one of the weakest.
Nov 13, 2023 10:52 AM
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Ya, it’s at an 8.9 at the moment. It will probably fall to 8.8, but that’s only because AOT stans will continue to make accounts and review bomb it to boost its rating. The fact it’s even decreasing slowly by the day suggests some people are giving it a very average to poor rating.
Nov 13, 2023 11:18 AM
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Reply to ktg
It was 9.1 before.
Check out the final ep's rating, 8.6. Compared to other episodes from S4, it's one of the weakest.
@ktg It had gone gone from 9.1 to 9.0 before the Finale aired.

And I did see the Finale rating. It's better than 17 other AoT episodes.

Meaning the Finale is better than 17.5% of all AoT.

And 13 of these Episodes are from Seasons 1-3. So the Finale is better than 22% or 1/5th of the entirety of the "Peak" AoT seasons.

That doesn't seem like a bad place to be.
Nov 13, 2023 11:23 AM
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Reply to thunderkitten13
Ya, it’s at an 8.9 at the moment. It will probably fall to 8.8, but that’s only because AOT stans will continue to make accounts and review bomb it to boost its rating. The fact it’s even decreasing slowly by the day suggests some people are giving it a very average to poor rating.
@thunderkitten13 It's not at 8.9. Unless your talking about the MaL rating.

The Imdb rating is at 9.1.
Though there is a chance it might decrease if it's reveiw bombed by Haters or One Piece fans.

And no, Stans giving positive reviews is about as effective as Haters and Other fandoms giving Negative review.

And if you're talking about MAL, than no the decreasing score does not mean it's getting average to poor rating.
It simply means it's getting lower rating thanbit already had which was already very high.

The rating was always bound to drop but the fact that it's dropping so slowly proves that most people are still giving it positive scores. Otherwise it would have dropped like a rock.
Nov 13, 2023 11:34 AM

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IMDB aka The worst website for Anime ratings
If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY
Nov 13, 2023 11:42 AM
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IMDb for anime? Naah man that's not the place for an anime or an anime episode episode rating. It's not completely wrong, but it is mostly wrong.
So it is mostly useless
Nov 13, 2023 11:49 AM
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Reply to Madhav001
IMDb for anime? Naah man that's not the place for an anime or an anime episode episode rating. It's not completely wrong, but it is mostly wrong.
So it is mostly useless
@Madhav001 I find it more reliable if you want a consensus of the opinion of general audiences. Even for Anime.

MAL is filled to the brim with Hard core Weebs that think your opinion is worthless if you've seen less than 500 Anime or Manga Readers.

Both of them tend to have strong biases and not representative of general audiences which I think make the biggest part of AoT's audience now.

Also with amount of boting and review bombing that exists in MAL over just the existence of Fandoms has made it as unreliable to me as Imdb itself.
Nov 13, 2023 11:56 AM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 I find it more reliable if you want a consensus of the opinion of general audiences. Even for Anime.

MAL is filled to the brim with Hard core Weebs that think your opinion is worthless if you've seen less than 500 Anime or Manga Readers.

Both of them tend to have strong biases and not representative of general audiences which I think make the biggest part of AoT's audience now.

Also with amount of boting and review bombing that exists in MAL over just the existence of Fandoms has made it as unreliable to me as Imdb itself.

Well do as you feel but comparing the anime is better in a place dedicated for anime .....

Review bombs happen both in IMDB and MAL so doesn't matter and the rating on MAL is more precise(upto second place after decimal) and reviews too are more genuine for me here.

The weebs are actually helpful since they have a lot of experience with all types of anime in MAL.

I too haven't watched a lot of anime but still if my opinion is genuine people accept it or acknowledge it, or if not they provide the insight. Both the case being helpful for me.

I see the bright side here.
You can always trust whichever platform works for you.....
But I can never fully depend on IMDb due to the joke of a difference in anime and TV show ratings....
Nov 13, 2023 12:31 PM

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Reply to Fuhrer_Wrath
@ktg It had gone gone from 9.1 to 9.0 before the Finale aired.

And I did see the Finale rating. It's better than 17 other AoT episodes.

Meaning the Finale is better than 17.5% of all AoT.

And 13 of these Episodes are from Seasons 1-3. So the Finale is better than 22% or 1/5th of the entirety of the "Peak" AoT seasons.

That doesn't seem like a bad place to be.
@Fuhrer_Wrath Kind of sounds like a self own to say "At least the final episode was better than that time when Hange went on about Sawney & Beane."
Nov 13, 2023 12:51 PM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

Bruh, IMDb doesn’t mean anything. That’s where overpassionate fans go to support the show and make themselves feel validated in their own opinion. I’m not taking the time to go there and rate it negatively
Nov 13, 2023 1:50 PM
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Reply to Fuhrer_Wrath
@ForeverTraitor Agreed.

I had seen Seasons 1-5 of GoT 5 times before the Final season aired.

Season 6 about 2 times and season 7 just once.

I was fully ready to binge the entire show from start to end once the final Season aired.

And after Season 8 aired. I have not rewatched GoT a single time. I just couldn't.

But I honestly don't see the same happening with AoT as a lot of people were and some still are claiming.
@Fuhrer_Wrath honestly I just pretend GoT ends at season 4 if I wanna rewatch it. Season 8 was hot garbage but I wasn't gonna let it take away from the fact that the first 4 seasons are still some of the best television out there, plus if I remember correctly, by the time season 4 ends it wraps up most of the overarching stories and characters
Nov 13, 2023 2:28 PM

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I was convinced the ending would be horrible. everyone that read the manga were crying about how bad It was. I genuinely think it was good. there were some issues it had, but I think it did its job well.

I've learned in life that you can't please everyone, and some people think they're cool or quirky because they have an opinion different from the majority. just because you didn't like the ending doesn't make you interesting, Jared. go on somewhere and let me enjoy the finale of a show that went on for almost half of my entire life. anyways
Nov 13, 2023 2:29 PM

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Reply to Madhav001
IMDb for anime? Naah man that's not the place for an anime or an anime episode episode rating. It's not completely wrong, but it is mostly wrong.
So it is mostly useless
@Madhav001 imo MyAnimeList is not a good place for ratings either. There’s an extremely large community of anime fans out there that do not use this website or even knows that it exists. There are some anime that are absolutely beloved by many people but have lo/average scores on MAL and vice verse. IMDb is more accurate just by sheer number of users
Nov 13, 2023 2:32 PM

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@blind_psychic Any normal, functioning adult. IMDB has been the standard when it comes to Movie and TV-Show rankings for decades, it's the most well know too.
Nov 13, 2023 3:01 PM
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Reply to Alvacka97
@blind_psychic Any normal, functioning adult. IMDB has been the standard when it comes to Movie and TV-Show rankings for decades, it's the most well know too.
@Alvacka97 It was before the anime community start polluting imdb with their toxic habits putting 10/10 at every episodes and 1/10 to others shows
Nov 13, 2023 4:25 PM
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ixaa said:
@Madhav001 imo MyAnimeList is not a good place for ratings either. There’s an extremely large community of anime fans out there that do not use this website or even knows that it exists. There are some anime that are absolutely beloved by many people but have lo/average scores on MAL and vice verse. IMDb is more accurate just by sheer number of users

MAL is the best we have if you think about number of people active for anime.

like AOT has about 4M members on MAL..... Which anime on IMDb has been rated by these many people?
Leave aside 4 Million, AOT on IMDb doesn't even have 500k ratings. Like Even average or below average anime on MAL like Rent a girlfriend has twice the number of members AOT has on IMDb.

IMDb is good for everything.... but for anime... I don't think so.....
Nov 13, 2023 4:26 PM
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blind_psychic said:
@Alvacka97 No, it seems like the opposite. The place where hardcore fans and haters gather. No normal anime viewer is going to rate an anime on IMDb.

Yup exactly.... you can rate your anime as you like on either place but the hate war goes on........
Nov 13, 2023 6:52 PM
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Madhav001 said:
ixaa said:
@Madhav001 imo MyAnimeList is not a good place for ratings either. There’s an extremely large community of anime fans out there that do not use this website or even knows that it exists. There are some anime that are absolutely beloved by many people but have lo/average scores on MAL and vice verse. IMDb is more accurate just by sheer number of users

MAL is the best we have if you think about number of people active for anime.

like AOT has about 4M members on MAL..... Which anime on IMDb has been rated by these many people?
Leave aside 4 Million, AOT on IMDb doesn't even have 500k ratings. Like Even average or below average anime on MAL like Rent a girlfriend has twice the number of members AOT has on IMDb.

IMDb is good for everything.... but for anime... I don't think so.....

One thing that isn't being mentioned is that AoT is rated as a whole over there. On MAL we only get to see the ratings of parts. If a person (let's suppose) hated season 4, might still give the whole show an average of 9 or smlt, but in mal he'd straight up down vote the final season, which looks less. So MAL ratings for anime with divided parts don't show every information always.

Is IMDb a bad place to see anime ratings really? No not really, BUT it matters. Avatar the last Airbender (an animated western show) has lesser no of ratings than aot, even Succession (a live action show) has lesser no of ratings than aot. But here's another catch, will the rating of Steins Gate matter more on imdb than mal? no, cuz it isn't divided into parts on mal and mal has more user ratings for that anime, same applies to JJK 0 movie. Btw some 460k ratings for a show isn't bad, and such number of users on imdb can not be composed of just aot or anime fans. Fuhrer wrath was right about saying that we get to see more of opinions of general audiences on imdb than the loud hardcore anime fans on mal (or perhaps weebs) who think their opinions mean everything since they've watched 500 anime. If you change those 460k to millions, will the rating go downhill? no, most people even on the internet have loved aot, it'll probably stay the same or go above GoT and stop, but it'll never surpass Breaking Bad I guess (that thing is really good).

But yes, I use both mal and imdb for checking ratings and stuff. I do not judge shows directly based on the ratings I see, but I like analyzing the details, like checking the rating distribution i.e. the number of people who've given it a 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and the distribution of ratings on the basis of region; etc.
MonsterSkasNov 13, 2023 8:35 PM
Nov 13, 2023 7:26 PM
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I haven't seen GOT yet, so I can't comment on that but yeah I always knew that AoT's anime reception is gonna be a lot better and positive than the manga because anime onlies aren't dumb or toxic like the majority of the manga readers, from what I had seen. And ntm, unlike the manga folks, the anime onlies weren't indulged in any sort of theorizing or fanfics or shipping wars etc.
Nov 13, 2023 7:39 PM

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I always chuckle when people compare Attack on Titan to Game of Thrones. They aren't similar at all in terms of how poorly/well-received they were at the end of the series.

With Game of Thrones, each season from Season 5 on just got progressively worse. To the point where people hoped rather than expected that the writers would sort themselves out when S8 aired and at least give the series a decent send-off, but it never happened. At least the last 25-30% of that show was average to terrible.

Attack on Titan was pretty solid all the way through, and even if you think the ending was poor/average, it was only the last 20 minutes of a 30+ hour series that people primarily had an issue with.

For the most part, people seem content with the ending and the message, even if it was far from perfect. It won't go down in the annals of shows with a fantastic ending, but it's not bad enough that it detracts from the enjoyment of the rest of the series.

Nov 13, 2023 7:44 PM
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Reply to Zekkenshin
@Fuhrer_Wrath Kind of sounds like a self own to say "At least the final episode was better than that time when Hange went on about Sawney & Beane."
@Zekkenshin Does it? From what I've seen people consider the first 3 seasons to be near perfection. Meaning even a "Bad" episode from those seasons is actually good episode that is still well liked.

I have never claimed the Finale was perfect or universally loved. But I do consider it to be good and mostly liked.

And that is exactly what this represents.

Also it's not just better than the episode where Hange goes on about Sawney and bean.

It's also better than the episode where Reiner Breaks the inner gate of Shinganshina.
Where Eren and Co join the Survey corp.
When the Collosal Titan Reappears.
Majority of the Episodes where Titan Eren has to Plug the Hole in the wall in Trost.
The Episode where Connie finds his mom in Titan Form
And the episode in the Forest where we find out about Reiner's broken Psyche and Eren's rant about killing them.

They were all some really good episodes.
Nov 13, 2023 7:46 PM
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Reply to ghier
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

Bruh, IMDb doesn’t mean anything. That’s where overpassionate fans go to support the show and make themselves feel validated in their own opinion. I’m not taking the time to go there and rate it negatively
@ghier Honestly the same is true for MAL.

Hell I would say a lot of the more casual fans who have seen AoT and maybe a few other animes but aren't full blown Anime fans usually don't come to MAL to voice their opinions either.
Nov 13, 2023 7:53 PM
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Reply to JJ_jose
@Fuhrer_Wrath honestly I just pretend GoT ends at season 4 if I wanna rewatch it. Season 8 was hot garbage but I wasn't gonna let it take away from the fact that the first 4 seasons are still some of the best television out there, plus if I remember correctly, by the time season 4 ends it wraps up most of the overarching stories and characters
@JJ_jose I get that. But every time I'm I try and watch the earlier Seasons I'm only reminded of where it will eventually go.

Fkr example I rewatch Got scenes on YouTube time to time. And one of my most absolute favorite scene from the whole show is the conversation between Jamie and Brienne in Season 3. Where Jamie explains why he killed the Mad King, because he was going to blow up King's Landing and kill Hundreds of Thousands of innocent Civilians.

It is an absolutely brilliant scene of acting and character build up. It gives Jamie's character so much depth and nuance.

But every time I see that scene I'm reminded of Jamie saying "I never really cared for them. Innocent or otherwise".

And the scene just becomes much harder to enjoy.

GoT is genuinely one of the few shows that actually hurt me by bieng bad because of how good it was in the start.
Nov 13, 2023 7:56 PM
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Reply to Chaimello
I was convinced the ending would be horrible. everyone that read the manga were crying about how bad It was. I genuinely think it was good. there were some issues it had, but I think it did its job well.

I've learned in life that you can't please everyone, and some people think they're cool or quirky because they have an opinion different from the majority. just because you didn't like the ending doesn't make you interesting, Jared. go on somewhere and let me enjoy the finale of a show that went on for almost half of my entire life. anyways
@StarryyChai You can hate the ending all you want.

My problem with these people is that they pretend like everyone hates the ending.
Or that the ending is very divisive or controversial when it's not.

Just accept that you're in the minority that didn't like the ending and move on.
Nov 13, 2023 8:06 PM
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Reply to xenosys
I always chuckle when people compare Attack on Titan to Game of Thrones. They aren't similar at all in terms of how poorly/well-received they were at the end of the series.

With Game of Thrones, each season from Season 5 on just got progressively worse. To the point where people hoped rather than expected that the writers would sort themselves out when S8 aired and at least give the series a decent send-off, but it never happened. At least the last 25-30% of that show was average to terrible.

Attack on Titan was pretty solid all the way through, and even if you think the ending was poor/average, it was only the last 20 minutes of a 30+ hour series that people primarily had an issue with.

For the most part, people seem content with the ending and the message, even if it was far from perfect. It won't go down in the annals of shows with a fantastic ending, but it's not bad enough that it detracts from the enjoyment of the rest of the series.

@xenosys Exactly this.
This is why I never understood the GoT comparisons.

The entire last season of GoT was poorly recieved.

AoT was well received up until it's second last episode.(Special Part 1)

Hell even the Special Part 2 was more or less universally beloved for like the first 2/3rds. The people who had issues with the ending only seem to have a problem with the last 1/3rd.
And even that last 1/3rd is not universally hated as GoT final 2 episodes.

I agree with the people who don't think the finale is perfect. I don't either.

For me the finale is a solid 8/10. And I think that's the opinion of the majority of the people.

That's all I'm saying. Not that the finale was perfect and it was universally beloved.

Just that it's good and liked by the majority.
Nov 13, 2023 8:33 PM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

You were right for the most part Fuhrer but I'd like to point out some flaws here.

AoT generally stays around 9.0 and 9.1 all the time, it once reached 9.1 and dropped to 9.0 again, and then reached 9.1 again after the finale was released. However it's not solely cuz of the finale, there can be several possibilities for the ratings increasing:

1. Whenever an AoT episode released we saw a sudden huge surge in popularity of the series. I myself started watching the series after I saw a sudden huge surge in popularity of the series at a point before which I didn't have any plans to start watching the series anytime soon but I did cuz I like staying up to date with latest trends. This explains why the number of user ratings increased on imdb, and with the increase in user ratings did increase the number of 10/10s, so did the overall score.

2. Many people rate a show after it ends and not before that. We all know that AoT is a really popular show and several people watch it, but not every one of them go to websites like Imdb to rate shows. But they could've thought about rating it after they've finished watching it, cuz you can also add shows to your watch list on imdb, and that website is not solely about rating shows, it is a website about large scale information about tons of shows. So that's it, several people rated the show after they've finished watching it.

3. There can also be a possibility of people increasing their rating because they have liked the ending, but this possibility is very less and I don't think it is the reason.

4. There are some people who keep the ratings of their shows low before they finish them, and later on judge the show after they finish it and give it an overall proper score. So there could also be a possibility of this.

There could be more possibilities of the score increasing but these are all the points I could think of now. There is a very less 1/4 probability of the overall score incresing because people liked the ending. So I think it's mostly the first 2 factors playing in the increase in the overall score of the show.
Nov 13, 2023 8:39 PM

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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.



That's right. Bringing GoT into the conversation isn't really something we needed.
But thanks, for this observation xD
Nov 13, 2023 9:06 PM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@ktg It had gone gone from 9.1 to 9.0 before the Finale aired.

And I did see the Finale rating. It's better than 17 other AoT episodes.

Meaning the Finale is better than 17.5% of all AoT.

And 13 of these Episodes are from Seasons 1-3. So the Finale is better than 22% or 1/5th of the entirety of the "Peak" AoT seasons.

That doesn't seem like a bad place to be.

Not really.
Firstly, it was 9.1 before that, if I remember correctly it was way higher quite some time ago. If I remember correctly the peak was around 9.3.
Secondly, compared to earlier seasons, it's still not that good. We are talking about SnK here, which had the most generic start, based on that it could have been a Kenja no Mago-like anime (even the theme is similar, revenge, hatred etc).
A show, a good show normally becomes better and better, because you are deeper in the story. It does not need to reuse old, generic stuff, but in this aspect SnK was way worse, because Isayama did a generic shounen start twice. Once with Eren and once with Gabi. At first I thought this was a poetic decision, but it turned out that Isayama is just simply not that good an author.
Nov 13, 2023 9:10 PM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 I find it more reliable if you want a consensus of the opinion of general audiences. Even for Anime.

MAL is filled to the brim with Hard core Weebs that think your opinion is worthless if you've seen less than 500 Anime or Manga Readers.

Both of them tend to have strong biases and not representative of general audiences which I think make the biggest part of AoT's audience now.

Also with amount of boting and review bombing that exists in MAL over just the existence of Fandoms has made it as unreliable to me as Imdb itself.

It's only true if we are talking about a popular show. When you look at an unpopular show, it usually has a lower rating, compared to what it should be or what it is on MAL. While with a popular show, the rating is usually higher.
This happens because on average anime is better than an average - western live action - show. Let's say the average is 5 if we include every show, but the anime subset should be somewhere between 6.5 and 7.
Nov 13, 2023 10:07 PM
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MonsterSkas said:
Madhav001 said:

MAL is the best we have if you think about number of people active for anime.

like AOT has about 4M members on MAL..... Which anime on IMDb has been rated by these many people?
Leave aside 4 Million, AOT on IMDb doesn't even have 500k ratings. Like Even average or below average anime on MAL like Rent a girlfriend has twice the number of members AOT has on IMDb.

IMDb is good for everything.... but for anime... I don't think so.....

One thing that isn't being mentioned is that AoT is rated as a whole over there. On MAL we only get to see the ratings of parts. If a person (let's suppose) hated season 4, might still give the whole show an average of 9 or smlt, but in mal he'd straight up down vote the final season, which looks less. So MAL ratings for anime with divided parts don't show every information always.

Is IMDb a bad place to see anime ratings really? No not really, BUT it matters. Avatar the last Airbender (an animated western show) has lesser no of ratings than aot, even Succession (a live action show) has lesser no of ratings than aot. But here's another catch, will the rating of Steins Gate matter more on imdb than mal? no, cuz it isn't divided into parts on mal and mal has more user ratings for that anime, same applies to JJK 0 movie. Btw some 460k ratings for a show isn't bad, and such number of users on imdb can not be composed of just aot or anime fans. Fuhrer wrath was right about saying that we get to see more of opinions of general audiences on imdb than the loud hardcore anime fans on mal (or perhaps weebs) who think their opinions mean everything since they've watched 500 anime. If you change those 460k to millions, will the rating go downhill? no, most people even on the internet have loved aot, it'll probably stay the same or go above GoT and stop, but it'll never surpass Breaking Bad I guess (that thing is really good).

But yes, I use both mal and imdb for checking ratings and stuff. I do not judge shows directly based on the ratings I see, but I like analyzing the details, like checking the rating distribution i.e. the number of people who've given it a 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and the distribution of ratings on the basis of region; etc.

I too check in a lot of place before watching anything. IMDb too. It's just that it's hard for me to take the rating seriously sometimes from there as some underrated anime don't even have 5k ratings, but are above 9, so I have to check Anilist or MAL or else IMDb is helpful in a lot of ways.

For overall yeah, I always have said MAL should also have anime rating of an anime as a whole, then you go into the page of the anime where individual season rating should be there and then again inside that episode ratings should be there. Doesn't that sound perfect? Hehe but I don't see it happening, a lot things would have to change.

(Not in the mood to say anything about the other stuff you wrote, too much effort, but Succession is really good too.)
Nov 13, 2023 10:09 PM
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Reply to MonsterSkas
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.

Before the release of the Finale I was told repeatedly that AoT finale will be recieved like GoT and AoT will lose it's popularity and goodwill. Just like GoT.

GoT went from 9.5 on Imdb to 9.2 after the release of Season 8.

AoT went from 9.0 to 9.1 after the Finale and currently stands as the highest rated Anime on Imdb above Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

This doesn't mean it's better than FMAB. (Both FMAB and AoT are tied for my favorite anime ever).
But it does show the opposite effect from GoT. With people actually liking the Finale.(And the Finale not bieng divisive and controversial as some people make it out to be).

So, yeah. There's that.

You were right for the most part Fuhrer but I'd like to point out some flaws here.

AoT generally stays around 9.0 and 9.1 all the time, it once reached 9.1 and dropped to 9.0 again, and then reached 9.1 again after the finale was released. However it's not solely cuz of the finale, there can be several possibilities for the ratings increasing:

1. Whenever an AoT episode released we saw a sudden huge surge in popularity of the series. I myself started watching the series after I saw a sudden huge surge in popularity of the series at a point before which I didn't have any plans to start watching the series anytime soon but I did cuz I like staying up to date with latest trends. This explains why the number of user ratings increased on imdb, and with the increase in user ratings did increase the number of 10/10s, so did the overall score.

2. Many people rate a show after it ends and not before that. We all know that AoT is a really popular show and several people watch it, but not every one of them go to websites like Imdb to rate shows. But they could've thought about rating it after they've finished watching it, cuz you can also add shows to your watch list on imdb, and that website is not solely about rating shows, it is a website about large scale information about tons of shows. So that's it, several people rated the show after they've finished watching it.

3. There can also be a possibility of people increasing their rating because they have liked the ending, but this possibility is very less and I don't think it is the reason.

4. There are some people who keep the ratings of their shows low before they finish them, and later on judge the show after they finish it and give it an overall proper score. So there could also be a possibility of this.

There could be more possibilities of the score increasing but these are all the points I could think of now. There is a very less 1/4 probability of the overall score incresing because people liked the ending. So I think it's mostly the first 2 factors playing in the increase in the overall score of the show.
@MonsterSkas Dude you basically expanded on my point. I'm not saying that it's Imdb score increased because people loved the ending.
I'm saying it's Imdb rating increased because the ending worked for the show.

1. Exactly. And if the ending had a really bad WoM like GoT there wouldn't be a surge of new viewers. That's my point.
Clearly people are hearing good things about how the show ended that's why they are going for it.

2.yes a lot of people rate a show after it's ending. And if the ending was really so bad as to bring the whole anime down, as some people claim, then the people who rate the show after finishing would not have given it a good rating. Or atleast not as good as the show already had before the ending was released.

3. Yeah, I don't think people are changing their existing rating. That almost never happens.

4. Again my exact point. If people change the score to be better than clearly they think the ending works.

My point wasn't that the ending was universally beloved. Even on Imdb it sits at 8.6. And while that's still good it's far from the universally beloved AoT epsisodes which had ratings of 9+.

My point was that the ending itself while having some issues, clearly still works for most people as a satisfying conclusion to the overall story.
So it enhances the overall story because it feels complete.

Thus the positive word of mouth or increased ratings of the overall show.
Nov 13, 2023 10:11 PM
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Reply to Merve2Love
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
I know there have already been quite a few takes about people actual really liking the Anime Finale and people here probably don't want another one. But still here it is.



That's right. Bringing GoT into the conversation isn't really something we needed.
But thanks, for this observation xD
@Merve2Love I'm not the one who brought GoT in the conversation.

Other people did for 2 years since the Manga ended. Some still do.

I'm just getting 2 years worth of frustration out.
Nov 13, 2023 10:15 PM
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Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Merve2Love I'm not the one who brought GoT in the conversation.

Other people did for 2 years since the Manga ended. Some still do.

I'm just getting 2 years worth of frustration out.

people said that to tell the ending of a great show is bad, but why compare the two.
One is live action other is an anime. Let's Leave them both be what they are, they can never be compared.
Nov 13, 2023 10:19 PM
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Reply to ktg
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@ktg It had gone gone from 9.1 to 9.0 before the Finale aired.

And I did see the Finale rating. It's better than 17 other AoT episodes.

Meaning the Finale is better than 17.5% of all AoT.

And 13 of these Episodes are from Seasons 1-3. So the Finale is better than 22% or 1/5th of the entirety of the "Peak" AoT seasons.

That doesn't seem like a bad place to be.

Not really.
Firstly, it was 9.1 before that, if I remember correctly it was way higher quite some time ago. If I remember correctly the peak was around 9.3.
Secondly, compared to earlier seasons, it's still not that good. We are talking about SnK here, which had the most generic start, based on that it could have been a Kenja no Mago-like anime (even the theme is similar, revenge, hatred etc).
A show, a good show normally becomes better and better, because you are deeper in the story. It does not need to reuse old, generic stuff, but in this aspect SnK was way worse, because Isayama did a generic shounen start twice. Once with Eren and once with Gabi. At first I thought this was a poetic decision, but it turned out that Isayama is just simply not that good an author.
@ktg No. AoT was never 9.3 on Imdb.

Yes it was 9.1 for a while but went back to 9.0 before the Finale aired.

Depends on where you are comparing with the earlier seasons. It's definitely better than some parts of the Earlier seasons.

I disagree with your take of Isayama doing Shonen start twice. Hell I disagree with the notion of Isayama doing it even once.

The first episode of AoT was not like the typical start of a shonen. That's what made AoT so popular. That it was different.

Nor do I think Isayama used old tropes and I do think the show got better and better with time.

Look the argument about how good AoT was or the ending was is irrelevant in this conversation.

It's based in subjective opinions. We can both be here arguing for hours based in subjective perception of the show.

That's not what this post is about. This post is just about the objective reception of the Finale from General Audiences.
Nov 13, 2023 10:24 PM
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Reply to ktg
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 I find it more reliable if you want a consensus of the opinion of general audiences. Even for Anime.

MAL is filled to the brim with Hard core Weebs that think your opinion is worthless if you've seen less than 500 Anime or Manga Readers.

Both of them tend to have strong biases and not representative of general audiences which I think make the biggest part of AoT's audience now.

Also with amount of boting and review bombing that exists in MAL over just the existence of Fandoms has made it as unreliable to me as Imdb itself.

It's only true if we are talking about a popular show. When you look at an unpopular show, it usually has a lower rating, compared to what it should be or what it is on MAL. While with a popular show, the rating is usually higher.
This happens because on average anime is better than an average - western live action - show. Let's say the average is 5 if we include every show, but the anime subset should be somewhere between 6.5 and 7.
@ktg Wether an average Anime is better than an average Western show is honestly a matter of subjective opinion.

And I agree it usually works for popular shows. That's why I specifically used for AoT.
Because AoT has become popular enough to become mainstream. And as a result sites limited to weebs or proper Anime watchers exclude the spectrum of opinions of mainstream Audiences who don't watch Anime but did watch AoT.

As I said before AoT's Imdb rating is not indicative of wether it's better or worse than any other Anime.

But it is indicative of it's reception from more mainstream audiences.
Nov 13, 2023 10:28 PM
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Dec 2020
524
Reply to Madhav001
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Merve2Love I'm not the one who brought GoT in the conversation.

Other people did for 2 years since the Manga ended. Some still do.

I'm just getting 2 years worth of frustration out.

people said that to tell the ending of a great show is bad, but why compare the two.
One is live action other is an anime. Let's Leave them both be what they are, they can never be compared.
@Madhav001 Yes people did. And now I'm telling how wrong they were.

Why is it okay for them to make a comparison with GoT when they want to claim it's as bad as GoT or that it's reception would be aa bad as GoT.

But now that they have been proven wrong it's wrong for me to make the same comparison to show them that they were wrong?

Doesn't really feel fair.
Nov 13, 2023 10:43 PM
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Mar 2021
438
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 Yes people did. And now I'm telling how wrong they were.

Why is it okay for them to make a comparison with GoT when they want to claim it's as bad as GoT or that it's reception would be aa bad as GoT.

But now that they have been proven wrong it's wrong for me to make the same comparison to show them that they were wrong?

Doesn't really feel fair.

They were saying, the ending will be bad to a great show, now where have you seen something like that?, yeah like GOT had a bad ending to a great show. No comparison between the two shows, just giving an example to help make easier understand what the secnario is gonna be. Which it didn't turn out to be as worse. So that's good.

But not compare them like which is better, if you are not doing that, it's fine cause they can't be compared. Peace
Madhav001Nov 13, 2023 10:51 PM
Nov 13, 2023 11:07 PM
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Reply to Madhav001
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 Yes people did. And now I'm telling how wrong they were.

Why is it okay for them to make a comparison with GoT when they want to claim it's as bad as GoT or that it's reception would be aa bad as GoT.

But now that they have been proven wrong it's wrong for me to make the same comparison to show them that they were wrong?

Doesn't really feel fair.

They were saying, the ending will be bad to a great show, now where have you seen something like that?, yeah like GOT had a bad ending to a great show. No comparison between the two shows, just giving an example to help make easier understand what the secnario is gonna be. Which it didn't turn out to be as worse. So that's good.

But not compare them like which is better, if you are not doing that, it's fine cause they can't be compared. Peace
@Madhav001 They did compare it. People were literally saying it's as bad as GoT's ending. That's literally called comparing.

They also said that it be as poorly received as GoT ending. That it's ratings will drop. That it will become irrelevant like GoT.

They were making full on comparisons. You can go the S4P2 discussion and search for them if you want to.

I don't have the stamina or the inclination to do it myself but they are there.

People made clear cut comparisons between the 2 to get their point across and now I'm doing the same.

I'm not comparing the quality of the 2 am I? I'm not saying AoT is better than GoT?

I'm simply pointing out that AoT Ending did not have the same kind of reception as GoT ending.

There's no comparison except for their reception.
Nov 13, 2023 11:13 PM
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438
Fuhrer_Wrath said:
@Madhav001 They did compare it. People were literally saying it's as bad as GoT's ending. That's literally called comparing.

They also said that it be as poorly received as GoT ending. That it's ratings will drop. That it will become irrelevant like GoT.

They were making full on comparisons. You can go the S4P2 discussion and search for them if you want to.

I don't have the stamina or the inclination to do it myself but they are there.

People made clear cut comparisons between the 2 to get their point across and now I'm doing the same.

I'm not comparing the quality of the 2 am I? I'm not saying AoT is better than GoT?

I'm simply pointing out that AoT Ending did not have the same kind of reception as GoT ending.

There's no comparison except for their reception.

As I said if you are not comparing it's fine....
I did not see a lot of threads at that time due to the extreme number of them being created at that time, and hence did not see any thread comparing them, but I will believe you since you say they are still there.

But simple difference should be that They were foolish, you are not.
Why do the same foolishness?
I think the rating and reviews of the last ep are testimony of them being wrong sufficient in itself.
Maturity is when you realise,
Justification is not always needed.

Everything doesn't need to be said, something speaks louder than words, Silence it is.

An I know you are mature enough, but the frustrations, is what you wanted to get out probably.
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