| Well, Galo did NOT say "no homo" after he performed mouth to mouth on Lion for an extended period. Right after that, they both hung around shirtless in a mech (I don't know where the shirts went) And when Lion kissed a girl to heal her, she died. (The article said Galo/Lion was the only kiss in the movie, but it wasn't.) But really, if you think Promare is gay, you've got thick yaoi glasses on. Ship 'em if you want, but I didn't think it was gay. Fujoshis do what fujoshis do draw pictures of hot guys kissing: it doesn't mean Jotaro and Kakyoin from JoJo are gay. They barely talked to each to other. RobertBobert said: lala665 said: RE: cutie honey had the same scene and at the end they look like they're just friends working together YET it's labeled as shoujo ai on this website ¯\_(γ)_/¯ Hah, this is a classic. If you are a woman, then any ambiguity gets +10 to the probability of reality in the eyes of the audience. I mean, they were naked and pressed together, so it looked kind of homo ngl, but I still think they were friends. And it's Cutie Honey: she's naked 40% of the time. It's just another day for her. Mod edit: Merged double post. Please use the edit button. |
MrZawaAug 25, 2020 4:58 AM
towelgirl21 said: RobertBobert said: Hah, this is a classic. If you are a woman, then any ambiguity gets +10 to the probability of reality in the eyes of the audience. I mean, they were naked and pressed together, so it looked kind of homo ngl, but I still think they were friends. And it's Cutie Honey: she's naked 40% of the time. It's just another day for her. CH at least initially had a certain yuri bait, not to mention reboot. But in our time, not only something erotic, in fact, any emotional intimacy between people of the same sex will be perceived as gay. Even obvious gay jokes, just a single trigger is enough. For example, many people still believe that MHA's MomoJiro has any chance, even after a sharp push by KamiJiro, as these two are best female friends. |
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| The amount of fanart and doujins inspired by it is surely impressive. |
| Personally I can't stand ANN, everything is written through the bitter and spiteful (and sometimes seemingly homophobic) lense of a has been voice actor. Maybe it's moved on from that, but all I can remember is that article from a couple years back where the guy that runs the website pretty much insults all anime fans and assumes all anime fans want to be voice actors and that none of us has the talent to do so and we just want to be buddies with other anime voice actors and how he used to slip similar rediculous tirades into about every article he wrote. |
KristiwazhereJul 12, 2020 10:24 PM
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kandi_gloss said: Personally I can't stand ANN, everything is written through the bitter and spiteful (and sometimes seemingly homophobic) lense of a has been voice actor. Maybe it's moved on from that, but all I can remember is that article from a couple years back where the guy that runs the website pretty much insults all anime fans and assumes all anime fans want to be voice actors and that none of us has the talent to do so and we just want to be buddies with other anime voice actors and how he used to slip similar rediculous tirades into about every article he wrote. If you go to ANN now, you can see how the moderators remove comments from people who doubt the yuri subtext in the BNA or reviews on the all-female anime, where the author writes that she could forgive MtF for being a sexual predator if their victim was closest lesbian. |
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Truee_KENSHIN said: RobertBobert said: By the way, one dude in the comments on this list asked whether lifeguards on the beach or emergency doctors should now say “NO HOMO” during artificial respiration? Not many people know This but you don't need to do mouth to mouth when doing CPR. I learnt this back when I did some student work with Airbus. Nah, nowadays you just have to hug another guy or be friendly to him and shippers call you gay. For example, among BNA's shippers, one of the most popular arguments is that girls have a high opinion of each other. They don't even think that such logic essentially makes gay any admiration for a favorite musician or actor. Although no, some even take it directly, claiming that they are gay for their favorite singer, because she is their idol. |
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| Watched this today, I’m a gay male myself, and there was no gay in this. I had read people on twitter saying it was “gay/queer as fuck”. No, it’s not. You can interpret it how you want, but when you say something is “gay as fuck” that makes people expect to see actual gay characters, which we saw none of besides a CPR kiss. |
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| Round two. The British Film Institute for some reason called the editor with Anime Feminist and now we learned that this film is not only "key" in the history of anime, but also "queer-coded". I don't even know what to be more surprised at. That it seems that reputable publications call such people to write on big topics, or that on the same resource you can find out that Naoko Yamada is doing "shoujo anime" and that her titles are "devoid of male preconception"? I don’t understand how people can write such bold conclusions about anime without even understanding the simplest things like the target audience of Eupho and Koe no Katachi, or how moe-ish really is the work of KyoAni. Of course, when even Yamada herself laughs when asked about the meaning of queerbaiting in the show, it suggests that this is an innocent feminine gaze on female characters, yes. |
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Caperon said: ArminMin said: If Lio's character had been a female one nobody would even question the romantic undertones in this. But the story of the movie isn't about romance so while it is hinted that there might be something starting out between the two I don't see how it fucking matters. Just this isn't reason enough to label it yaoi/BL.... And if some heterosexual people feel offended by such a soft hint then that's just fucking sad. In the end the movie is neither hetero nor homo because there IS NO ROMANCE STORY and we don't actually see any characters getting together. It is valid to assume that they're hetero.. It is valid to assume they're homo. Both is just fanshipping in this case . >_> And both is okay. Shipping Lio and Galo just has a tad bit more substance to rely on bc of the kiss.. Nobody can deny that. But it doesn't make it officially BL either. I agree that it doesn't matter. Personally i think that is intentionally hinted that its a gay relationship, the colors assigned to the characters, the opposed characters, operating a mecha as a couple (isn't that the thing going in Darling in the Franxx? Haven't seen the anime tho), but its just hinted like it isn't a big deal, because it isn't and it isn't the main point of the movie, that is saving the world and remove oppression. Maybe that is the reason that some of the LGBT-queer-whatever you want to call it community sees it as a good representation of their community, it normalizes it, and at the end of the day I think that's what they want, being treated the same no matter the sexual preferences or whatever. Other than that, why any art piece has to be perfectly defined by some arbitrary categories we decide to apply... It's just a fucking good movie. With this logic, any opposition of two male characters is a hint of a gay relationship. This is just ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Darling carried a direct metaphor of relationships and the whole show was built around the institution of marriage. Was there something like that in Promare? But what I like the most is how people say "it's just hinted" when they can't explain why the show was needed at all. |
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Caperon said: RobertBobert said: With this logic, any opposition of two male characters is a hint of a gay relationship. This is just ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Darling carried a direct metaphor of relationships and the whole show was built around the institution of marriage. Was there something like that in Promare? But what I like the most is how people say "it's just hinted" when they can't explain why the show was needed at all. Not any kind of opposition. An opposition where 1 character is clearly a feminine stereotype figure, thin, soft facial traits, blonde long hai, very passionate ("my desire to burn everything on earth") and the other character is protective ("my will to save lives from fire"), brave, that shows total disinterest when a woman character tries to advance on him... And they both end as a single entity ("join as one") as Galo de Lion. It is the same metaphor as a show that you yourself said is about marriage. And yes, its hinted, you don't see them copulating or anything. You see them after the RCP/Kiss scene and Galo is not annoyed because he kissed a man, he is annoyed because he started a fire, i think its another hint. I don't understand your last sentence, why the movie was needed? why a hint of gay relationship was needed? Well, i guess because the author wanted to make it this way. It doesn't make the show any worse or better, its just what he wanted to do and what people interprets of it. Art is a 2 way process anyway. Maybe this will be a great discovery for you, but the authors for centuries have made the two main characters opposite to each other. This is the easiest way to make a couple of characters stand out and you can find it in any show with two main male or female characters. This in no way makes them gay or queer-coded. You just take whatever symbolism you can find in the show and declare it romantic. This is the typical case of shipping goggles. Especially when you argue that if a character was not disgusted by what he did RCP to another man, then he is gay. That is, you still don't know the answer. Considering how the show has never been promoted as romantic or even homoerotic, this is nothing more than wishful thinking. The most you can count on is that the show had fujo-bait. |
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Caperon said: RobertBobert said: Maybe this will be a great discovery for you, but the authors for centuries have made the two main characters opposite to each other. This is the easiest way to make a couple of characters stand out and you can find it in any show with two main male or female characters. This in no way makes them gay or queer-coded. You just take whatever symbolism you can find in the show and declare it romantic. This is the typical case of shipping goggles. Especially when you argue that if a character was not disgusted by what he did RCP to another man, then he is gay. That is, you still don't know the answer. Considering how the show has never been promoted as romantic or even homoerotic, this is nothing more than wishful thinking. The most you can count on is that the show had fujo-bait. It is ok to have different visions in a piece of art and is ok to disagree. You are right, you can disagree. But when shipping becomes something political or outright religious lately, it gets too serious. |
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RobertBobert said: You are right, you can disagree. But when shipping becomes something political or outright religious lately, it gets too serious. What? You seem to take it very personally. Here, to brighten your day:  https://twitter.com/MakoHaru_matuer/status/1177682411431354368 "You're cold like ice but You might melt from a fiery love The spell has been cast so I hope it's still okay to love you" The lyrics of the songs chosen for the movie matter. |
Caperon said: RobertBobert said: You are right, you can disagree. But when shipping becomes something political or outright religious lately, it gets too serious. What? You seem to take it very personally. Here, to brighten your day: https://twitter.com/MakoHaru_matuer/status/1177682411431354368 "You're cold like ice but You might melt from a fiery love The spell has been cast so I hope it's still okay to love you" The lyrics of the songs chosen for the movie matter. Ahahaha. Dude, take the first season of Eupho, while Kumiko and Reina were out together, there was also a romantic song playing. This is completely normal thing for anime. As for the heart, then again, does the heart only have a romantic meaning? You try to accuse me of being too personal, but at the same time, you are the one who continues to prove something to me. |
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| I always find it interesting when people label anything with a seemingly same-sex relationship as BL/yaoi/shounen-ai. BL is a genre with tropes and cliches deeply entrenched in it - that isn’t to say the genre hasn’t evolved and changed over the years but the focal point of BL has and always will be the relationship between the two male characters the story revolves around. Now obviously, as y’all have pointed out, Promare is most decidedly not a BL anime. However, there can still be LGBT+ themes and relationships within anime (or even shows) that aren’t specifically labelled as such. I’m not trying to argue that Galo and Lio are gay - whether I think they are is irrelevant to the discussion - just that we shouldn’t have to label shows with LGBT+ content as yaoi/yuri because they aren’t always going to be. No.6, for instance, portrays a romantic relationship between Nezumi and Shion but it is not and never will be a yaoi anime. It’s not a “BL” relationship, just a relationship between two men who in some way shape or form, care about each other. Koi to Uso, which is the farthest thing from a BL anime/manga, has a gay character in it (in fact gay people in KtU are considered amid their weird government shenanigans) and there is clear attraction between him and Nejima (it fizzled before it really went anywhere but that doesn’t change Nisaka’s sexuality). Ao no Flag was a shounen manga, published in shounen jump, that has several LGBT+ characters and even Shimanami Tasogare was a seinen manga that dealt heavily with themes sexuality and gender identity. None of these manga/anime are labelled as shounen-ai/BL because they aren’t, they just do happen to portray LGBT+ relationships and themes. This is part of the reason why I think it is a little ridiculous to insinuate ALL same-sex relationships, whether or not they have some degree of canonity like No.6/Koi to Uso/Ao no Flag/Shimanami Tasogare do, in anime are yaoi/yuri (or evening yaoi/yuri-bait) as it seems to enforce the stigma that same-sex relationships are “other, different and strange” as opposed to straight-relationships which are seen as the default. This is just how society is right now and I mean, it is what it is, but I think it’s important that there are manga and anime that exist that may present some form of same-sex/LGBT+ themes without necessarily being labelled as such. Romance is romance right? Regardless of who it is between and to pigeonhole anime/manga with LGBT+ themes into the yaoi/yuri labels defeats the purpose of them not being labelled that way in the first place. Again, yaoi is a genre, so just like you wouldn’t classify Naruto as a mecha, people shouldn’t be classifying Promare or any of my aforementioned examples as yaoi just because they may (or may not in Promare’s case) contain a same-sex relationship or exploration of LGBT+ themes. Interestingly, I find that Trigger does slip in LGBT+ themes in some of their anime. Darling in the Franxx, despite being an overall mess, While this deviates slightly from OP’s overall point as Galo and Lio were never explicitly canonized, I guess it wouldn’t be completely off the mark to suggest some degree of a romantic attraction between the two. However, again, to suggest Promare is a BL anime or that there is a “yaoi” relationship between Galo and Lio is ludicrous. This may not have been OP’s intended point with where I went with my reply but again, we all have opinions ¯\_(γ)_/¯ maybe Galo and Lio are gay, but maybe not. Who knows. People (myself included) are going to ship it anyway, in part because whatever their relationship is, is used as a focal point in the story to connect them from one plot point to the next. Oop sorry this got long (I’m tired, it’s 5 AM and I work tomorrow but this is what I decide to do) but, TL;DR, Promare isn’t a yaoi, because yaoi is a genre and there is plenty of anime that does include same-sex relationships that aren’t considered yaoi for the same reason Promare isn’t. Whether Promare has any actual LGBT+ representation is up for interpretation but you’re Boo Boo the Fool if you think that representation makes it a yaoi. |
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| @jadedgalaxy It's not about "this doesn't have a BL tag, so it's not BL". And not that if a potential love is not the center of the plot, then this is not. The problem is that people promote their often very poorly grounded speculations as an objective truth, using their official position. I can take it completely delusional, but if you enjoy reading the film like this, even wishful thinking, then you have the right, this is your own business. But now, for some reason, people think that their reading does not matter if others do not share this and therefore they salty promote their interpretation as the only possible option. This is reminiscent of the broadcast time of the first Eupho's season, when the Crunchy used episode 13 of the series to publicly support gay marriage. Yes, at that time not everyone knew that Kumiko and Reina were not a couple, but such actions were clearly dubious. |
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RobertBobert said: ANN literally says it's a BL anime, because GaloLio "kisses and their ship is very popular among fujos". It seems to me that this is either some very subtle trolling, or modern anime journalism has reached a new level of obsession with shipping and pretending that this is real LGBTQ content. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-01-01/best-lgbtq-characters-of-2019/.154965 Hot-blooded firefighting action sequences were the initial draw for this hit movie from Studio Trigger, promising the energy of Hiroyuki Imaishi and Kazuki Nakashima's previous projects together. While the film did deliver spectacle in spades, audiences came away talking about another explosive duo: Lio and Galo, the two leads of the movie and boyfriends extraordinaire. Lio and Galo have undeniable chemistry from the first moment they're on screen together, going from enemies to allies to co-pilots of a single giant robot, the most intimate relationship a pair of anime characters can have. When Lio's on the verge of death, Galo's the one to smooch him awake like a fairytale princess, albeit with a flimsy excuse of life energy transfer or some such. That kiss is also the <i>only</i> kiss in the movie, since Aina and Galo are stopped short before they ever make lip-to-lip contact. In any case, the sheer volume of Lio/Galo fanart I've seen on Twitter and pixiv speaks to the impression they made on audiences both domestic and international, whether intentionally or not. Now there's only the question of who's on top: is the robot Lio de GaloΜn or Galo de LioΜn? CTRL+F = Yaoi: Not fond CTRL + F= BL: Not fond What the heck are you even talking about? |
RobertBobert said: @jadedgalaxy It's not about "this doesn't have a BL tag, so it's not BL". And not that if a potential love is not the center of the plot, then this is not. The problem is that people promote their often very poorly grounded speculations as an objective truth, using their official position. I can take it completely delusional, but if you enjoy reading the film like this, even wishful thinking, then you have the right, this is your own business. But now, for some reason, people think that their reading does not matter if others do not share this and therefore they salty promote their interpretation as the only possible option. This is reminiscent of the broadcast time of the first Eupho's season, when the Crunchy used episode 13 of the series to publicly support gay marriage. Yes, at that time not everyone knew that Kumiko and Reina were not a couple, but such actions were clearly dubious. Isn’t it though? Regardless of if it is random fujoshi on the internet or a big “official” platform like ANN, the fact of the matter remains that no BL tag means it’s not BL. That in itself completely discredits their claim anyway and yeah, I suppose it is a problem to portray these things as the “objective truth” when it isn’t officially confirmed by the creators but if people understood that yaoi is a genre and stopped throwing it around like any inclination of a same-sex relationship means it’s yaoi, then there wouldn’t be any problems. Regardless, I doubt anything will be done to satisfy either party in a discussion like this. Take Evangelion, for example, the discussion of the romantic (or not) relationship between Kaworu and Shinji has been hotly debated since the 90s and there is still official sources that both confirm that relationship and deny it to a more ambiguous standpoint. Yuri!! on Ice even had a kiss between the two main characters and still left the relationship more ambiguous in the end than it needed too, despite all the anime did to canonize it. So yeah, while I see the issue in ANN confirming Galo and Lio are a couple, or even in Crunchyroll doing the same thing with Eupho, it likely won’t see a satisfactory conclusion unless people start to understand what yaoi/yuri actually is before making “poorly grounded speculation.” However, until then, it’ll pad out the views and get people talking about it both in a way that agrees with their statements and in discussions like this that find fault in how they’re choosing to promote certain anime. |
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| @Bernrika You perfectly understood what I meant. There is no need to use quite cheap demagoguery like "they didn't say it literally, so it didn't happen." jadedgalaxy said: RobertBobert said: @jadedgalaxy It's not about "this doesn't have a BL tag, so it's not BL". And not that if a potential love is not the center of the plot, then this is not. The problem is that people promote their often very poorly grounded speculations as an objective truth, using their official position. I can take it completely delusional, but if you enjoy reading the film like this, even wishful thinking, then you have the right, this is your own business. But now, for some reason, people think that their reading does not matter if others do not share this and therefore they salty promote their interpretation as the only possible option. This is reminiscent of the broadcast time of the first Eupho's season, when the Crunchy used episode 13 of the series to publicly support gay marriage. Yes, at that time not everyone knew that Kumiko and Reina were not a couple, but such actions were clearly dubious. Isn’t it though? Regardless of if it is random fujoshi on the internet or a big “official” platform like ANN, the fact of the matter remains that no BL tag means it’s not BL. That in itself completely discredits their claim anyway and yeah, I suppose it is a problem to portray these things as the “objective truth” when it isn’t officially confirmed by the creators but if people understood that yaoi is a genre and stopped throwing it around like any inclination of a same-sex relationship means it’s yaoi, then there wouldn’t be any problems. Regardless, I doubt anything will be done to satisfy either party in a discussion like this. Take Evangelion, for example, the discussion of the romantic (or not) relationship between Kaworu and Shinji has been hotly debated since the 90s and there is still official sources that both confirm that relationship and deny it to a more ambiguous standpoint. Yuri!! on Ice even had a kiss between the two main characters and still left the relationship more ambiguous in the end than it needed too, despite all the anime did to canonize it. So yeah, while I see the issue in ANN confirming Galo and Lio are a couple, or even in Crunchyroll doing the same thing with Eupho, it likely won’t see a satisfactory conclusion unless people start to understand what yaoi/yuri actually is before making “poorly grounded speculation.” However, until then, it’ll pad out the views and get people talking about it both in a way that agrees with their statements and in discussions like this that find fault in how they’re choosing to promote certain anime. So, are you saying that Utena is not a yuri just because this tag appeared only after the main characters became a thing? |
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jadedgalaxy said: RobertBobert said: @jadedgalaxy It's not about "this doesn't have a BL tag, so it's not BL". And not that if a potential love is not the center of the plot, then this is not. The problem is that people promote their often very poorly grounded speculations as an objective truth, using their official position. I can take it completely delusional, but if you enjoy reading the film like this, even wishful thinking, then you have the right, this is your own business. But now, for some reason, people think that their reading does not matter if others do not share this and therefore they salty promote their interpretation as the only possible option. This is reminiscent of the broadcast time of the first Eupho's season, when the Crunchy used episode 13 of the series to publicly support gay marriage. Yes, at that time not everyone knew that Kumiko and Reina were not a couple, but such actions were clearly dubious. Isn’t it though? Regardless of if it is random fujoshi on the internet or a big “official” platform like ANN, the fact of the matter remains that no BL tag means it’s not BL. That in itself completely discredits their claim anyway and yeah, I suppose it is a problem to portray these things as the “objective truth” when it isn’t officially confirmed by the creators but if people understood that yaoi is a genre and stopped throwing it around like any inclination of a same-sex relationship means it’s yaoi, then there wouldn’t be any problems. Regardless, I doubt anything will be done to satisfy either party in a discussion like this. Take Evangelion, for example, the discussion of the romantic (or not) relationship between Kaworu and Shinji has been hotly debated since the 90s and there is still official sources that both confirm that relationship and deny it to a more ambiguous standpoint. Yuri!! on Ice even had a kiss between the two main characters and still left the relationship more ambiguous in the end than it needed too, despite all the anime did to canonize it. So yeah, while I see the issue in ANN confirming Galo and Lio are a couple, or even in Crunchyroll doing the same thing with Eupho, it likely won’t see a satisfactory conclusion unless people start to understand what yaoi/yuri actually is before making “poorly grounded speculation.” However, until then, it’ll pad out the views and get people talking about it both in a way that agrees with their statements and in discussions like this that find fault in how they’re choosing to promote certain anime. So, are you saying that Utena is not a yuri just because this tag appeared only after the main characters became a thing?[/quote] Well if you really want to get into the technicalities of the definition of yuri, than yes it is technically a yuri - but there are two usages for the term yuri. One denotes the romantic and/or sexual attraction between women in anime/manga whatever. The other, which was the one I was referring to, is the genre of yuri. So yeah, Utena is technically yuri, but at the same time, it isn’t because none of its’ listed genres are yuri/shoujo-ai. It’s particularly this reason that I said: “until people start to understand what yaoi/yuri actually is.” Utena is a wonderful example of an anime that depicts a romantic relationship between the two main leads when it’s genres are listed as (on MAL for the sake of this discussion): Comedy, Drama, Fantasy, Mystery, Psychological, Shoujo. Notice the distinct lack of the yuri/shoujo-ai tag. (And, for reference, it’s tagged as fantasy, romance, surrealist on Wikipedia.) I’m not really sure what you mean by “this tag” then, because it certainly doesn’t appear when I search Utena’s genres. Now, yaoi is a whole different thing. Yaoi is, and I cannot stress this enough, a genre. That means there are tropes inherent in yaoi that isn’t necessarily present in works that depict same-sex relationships between men. Yaoi is generally a work written by women, for women - now of course this isn’t always the case but it is how the genre came about and developed into what it is today. While English may use the term for any depiction of a same-sex relationship between men, BL is the more appropriate term. Furthermore, while, again yaoi is an umbrella term in English, it is only ever used in reference to doujinshi or manga with sexual acts. This is what I mean when I say people don’t or might not fully understand what exactly yuri or yaoi is. In part because there are multiple definitions that differ across languages and are subject to a number of nuances that are simply lost in translation. Long story short, no one should tag Utena as a yuri just because it depicts a relationship between two women - it’s genre is not and never will be yuri. There is nothing wrong with this of course, as you can still refer to Utena and Anthy as a yuri couple, but it also isn’t. Non-yuri/yaoi anime can contain same-sex relationships because the focus isn’t on the sexual same-sex relationship, rather the characters just happened to be of the same-sex and are operating within the story as such. I could use No.6 as an example again but just imagine Full Metal Alchemist playing out exactly the same only Winry is a boy. Nothing changes in the story, just that Winry is a boy. It wouldn’t change the genre (Winry and Ed don’t have an explicit sexual relationship after all) and nothing about the story would be different (unless the author decided to, but for the sake of the discussion, same-sex relationships are perfectly acceptable in FMA’s universe); so it wouldn’t be a yaoi, nor should it be referred to as - you might refer to this hypothetical Male!Winry x Ed couple as a BL couple but not yaoi. Does this make sense or am I just talking in circles? |
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RobertBobert said: @Bernrika You perfectly understood what I meant. There is no need to use quite cheap demagoguery like "they didn't say it literally, so it didn't happen." There is no cheap demagoguery, you literally made up, pardon the french, shit. >Title: Did you know that this is Yaoi? >Opening post: ANN literally says it's a BL anime, >ANN article: Literally no mention of it being Yaoi or BL The only thing it says is that the characters are gay. You may want to read what a strawman is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man RobertBobert said: @Bernrika You perfectly understood what I meant. There is no need to use quite cheap demagoguery like "they didn't say it literally, so it didn't happen." jadedgalaxy said: Isn’t it though? Regardless of if it is random fujoshi on the internet or a big “official” platform like ANN, the fact of the matter remains that no BL tag means it’s not BL. That in itself completely discredits their claim anyway and yeah, I suppose it is a problem to portray these things as the “objective truth” when it isn’t officially confirmed by the creators but if people understood that yaoi is a genre and stopped throwing it around like any inclination of a same-sex relationship means it’s yaoi, then there wouldn’t be any problems. Regardless, I doubt anything will be done to satisfy either party in a discussion like this. Take Evangelion, for example, the discussion of the romantic (or not) relationship between Kaworu and Shinji has been hotly debated since the 90s and there is still official sources that both confirm that relationship and deny it to a more ambiguous standpoint. Yuri!! on Ice even had a kiss between the two main characters and still left the relationship more ambiguous in the end than it needed too, despite all the anime did to canonize it. So yeah, while I see the issue in ANN confirming Galo and Lio are a couple, or even in Crunchyroll doing the same thing with Eupho, it likely won’t see a satisfactory conclusion unless people start to understand what yaoi/yuri actually is before making “poorly grounded speculation.” However, until then, it’ll pad out the views and get people talking about it both in a way that agrees with their statements and in discussions like this that find fault in how they’re choosing to promote certain anime. So, are you saying that Utena is not a yuri just because this tag appeared only after the main characters became a thing? Utena is definitely not a Yuri, yes. You don't quite understand how genres work. There is also male gay sex in Utena, should we call it a Yaoi? Mod edit: Merged double post. Please use the edit button. |
MrZawaAug 25, 2020 5:05 AM
Bernrika said: RobertBobert said: @Bernrika You perfectly understood what I meant. There is no need to use quite cheap demagoguery like "they didn't say it literally, so it didn't happen." There is no cheap demagoguery, you literally made up, pardon the french, shit. >Title: Did you know that this is Yaoi? >Opening post: ANN literally says it's a BL anime, >ANN article: Literally no mention of it being Yaoi or BL The only thing it says is that the characters are gay. You may want to read what a strawman is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You can baiting me as much as you want by brazenly distorting my words and blaming me for some "intentions", but it doesn't work with me. Bernrika said: RobertBobert said: @Bernrika You perfectly understood what I meant. There is no need to use quite cheap demagoguery like "they didn't say it literally, so it didn't happen." So, are you saying that Utena is not a yuri just because this tag appeared only after the main characters became a thing? Utena is definitely not a Yuri, yes. You don't quite understand how genres work. There is also male gay sex in Utena, should we call it a Yaoi? I'm glad you mentioned straw man above. Your previous and especially last comment is a prime example of this. I will repeat one last time, if you continue to distort my comments and use the straw man to counterattack, I will simply end any dialogue with you. |
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RobertBobert said: Your previous and especially last comment is a prime example of this No, they are not, stop using words you don't understand. You don't know what Yaoi is and you also clearly don't know what a strawman is. Pointing out your own words don't match your own argument isn't a strawman. Instead of crying, I suggest you point out to us where in this article you linked ANN refers and classifies Promare as a Yaoi or BL: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-01-01/best-lgbtq-characters-of-2019/.154965 ANN literally says it's a BL anime Do you know what LITERALLY means? Apparently not, just like you don't know what a strawman is. Even the first post literally called you out. |
Bernrika said: RobertBobert said: Your previous and especially last comment is a prime example of this No, they are not, stop using words you don't understand. You don't know what Yaoi is and you also clearly don't know what a strawman is. Pointing out your own words don't match your own argument isn't a strawman. Instead of crying, I suggest you point out to us where in this article you linked ANN refers and classifies Promare as a Yaoi or BL: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-01-01/best-lgbtq-characters-of-2019/.154965 ANN literally says it's a BL anime Do you know what LITERALLY means? Apparently not, just like you don't know what a strawman is. Even the first post literally called you out. Well, since you continue to outright distort my words and try to flood me with accusations as a counterattack, then the conversation is over. Knowing your reputation, I should have ignored you from the start. |
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RobertBobert said: Well, since you continue to outright distort my words and try to flood me with accusations as a counterattack, Alright, let's go in order: Did you know that this is Yaoi? Title calls this anime a Yaoi. ANN literally says it's a BL anime, Clear enough. Says ANN literally says it's a BL anime. LITERALLY. Hot-blooded firefighting action sequences were the initial draw for this hit movie from Studio Trigger, promising the energy of Hiroyuki Imaishi and Kazuki Nakashima's previous projects together. While the film did deliver spectacle in spades, audiences came away talking about another explosive duo: Lio and Galo, the two leads of the movie and boyfriends extraordinaire. Lio and Galo have undeniable chemistry from the first moment they're on screen together, going from enemies to allies to co-pilots of a single giant robot, the most intimate relationship a pair of anime characters can have. When Lio's on the verge of death, Galo's the one to smooch him awake like a fairytale princess, albeit with a flimsy excuse of life energy transfer or some such. That kiss is also the <i>only</i> kiss in the movie, since Aina and Galo are stopped short before they ever make lip-to-lip contact. In any case, the sheer volume of Lio/Galo fanart I've seen on Twitter and pixiv speaks to the impression they made on audiences both domestic and international, whether intentionally or not. Now there's only the question of who's on top: is the robot Lio de GaloΜn or Galo de LioΜn? Nowhere in ANN article's section for Promade the words "Yaoi" or "BL" are written. Best LGBTQ+ Characters of 2019 Title of the article is "Best LGBTQ+ Characters of 2019", again not relevant to BL or Yaoi, unless you think gay people existing=yaoi, which is utterly wrong. LGBT representation in 2019 anime was a bit sporadic. There was a BL series, a few more that might as well be BL, a handful of not-quite-yuri shows, ] Case in point. The article makes a distinction between the other series and BL.A BL series. Singular. Clearly talking about Given, which is linked in the article. "that might as well be BL" doesn't mean they are LITERALLY BL, and the don't point out at Promare in any case. Well, since you continue to outright distort Also, a mistake. As I a'm not the only one who pointed out the dissonance between your opening post and title, as post number #2 (And I suppose other users) did. Knowing your reputation, I should have ignored you from the start. Indeed, you are not capable of admitting your own mistakes, which makes a conversation over a faulty premise impossible. The impression I got is that you are frustrated over the fact ANN interpreter the movie's lead characters as LGBT and decide to complain about it here. Alas, you failed to read the article correctly and when I, and several other people, pointed it out, you panicked. Of course, all you would have to do is point out where in the article you linked Promade is intensified as Yaoi or BL, to shut down the discussion. |
BernrikaAug 24, 2020 7:47 AM
| MOAR. https://thegeekiary.com/promare-colorful-queer-dystopian-action-drama/71384 https://www.pride.com/geek/2019/12/09/promare-action-packed-queer-way-too-fun-ignore Such reading of the film is so hyped in the western geek media that even an article in an actual queer magazine looks less gay and more shipper-ish than an article on a formally common geek resource. |
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| I’m going to leave my two cents here. No, I don’t think we should label Promare as romance, yaoi or bl, simply because it’s not direct and heavily plot relevant. The same logic applies with shounen stories with a hint of romance. There’s no need to label it as such. The thing about their relationship is, I’m pretty sure the producers intended to heavily hint love between Galo and Lio. And good Lord, how I wish people would stop treating those who believe this as “fujoshi” or “boys love addicts”. I run away as fast as I can from Yaoi and Yuri because they usually are hella fethishized (at least in the past, as far as I know), to the point it makes the viewer uncomfortable. I’m far from being a big fan of those genres. But I am indeed a romance anime addict, so at this point in specific I could be a bit biased, ngl. But anyways. First thing. The “kiss of life” trope is something commonly used by the writers when they want to show love between the people involved. Trigger could’ve come up with a ton of other ways to revive the Burnishers, but they chose this trope in specific. By chance? I highly doubt it. It isn’t even “CPR”, as when Galo tried to do it, it didn’t work, so he used the fictitious way they came up to revive a Burnisher, which in the end is a kiss of life. You say fujo-bait? Why?? Promare is a mecha action movie, and with excepcional art made by Trigger. Why would they add something only to bait a random demographic? Unrelated? I really can’t understand this. We’re talking about Trigger here. If they put something there, is because they planned to do so, they love symbolism. Besides, after the scene, they act normally, as it should be. Galo complained about lighting a fire (which is the focus of the movie, their ambitions), not about kissing a man or something, which would be more fanservice-ish in my opinion. And I didn’t even talk about scene composition, color, reactions and timing. Look at the way it was directed. It's all the context. Secondly, Superfly said the song “kori no tojikomete” was written inspired by Galo and Lio, and it’s a love song. If you pay attention to the lyrics of inferno or kokusei, you can see how they fit the characters as well. What is expected, as they were composed specifically for the movie. They think a lot about each detail they add to it, it’s not a coincidence that certain songs played at certain times. They're not random lyrics. Then there is the official art (a random example, there are a bunch of them, and I recommend to check the artbook too, it’s awesome). All the “galo de lion” thing (other thing the production said is Lio losing the upper part of his vest is to symbolize that they got closer and the ideals collided, together now), they representing two halves of one whole, with the heart explosion and all that jazz, besides the color scheme (pink/blue). The dialogues (especially in the end). Oh, and there is the heavy pink triangle symbolism too. Is it really a coincidence? And the official collab jewelry kit with Galo and Lio inspired rings, plus a necklace inspired by both of them together? Like, damn… Promare is full of symbolism, you can even analyse the shapes they used (circle and triangle) and what they can mean (like this https://lucyoftheabyss48.tumblr.com/post/190194381764/promare-use-of-shapes). Personally, I wish people would stop bothering so much with gender, you know. If we swapped Lio and Aina roles, I 200% would bet that everyone would say clearly that they were an intended couple, a ship that sailed. But because it’s Galo and Lio that we’re talking about, a lot of people get defensive, say that anyone who supports it is a fujoshi or shit like that, or delusional. Yes, there are a lot of fethisistic people, but it's not like most people ship them because they only want to see boys kiss or something like this, which is stupid, it's because they like their dynamic, personalities, chemistry and how each part can help the other with their troubles. This is becoming more and more common, not caring about the gender of the people involved, but about the things I just said. It's like I said in the beggining, it's heavily hinted, not canon. But this doesn't mean people cannot see them as a couple, quite the countrary, as even the producers tease it. Oh, this got hella long, but oh well, what can I do. |
Mah_LongApr 26, 2021 5:22 PM
| @Mah_Long So, again fanservice + queerbaiting + interpretations + the classic requirement to take all this as seriously as possible. Well, as the icing on the cake, another case of critical misunderstanding of how homoeroticism works in bromance fiction. Even Jojo used rings as a metaphor for the bond between two male characters. And more than one straight show used a romantic song for a bromance premise. Was it really all read BL? Now for a rhetorical question. Let's say they really have a relationship and this is serious. Then why should all this be as coded and ambiguous as possible, while the theoretical heterosexual line would never be so subtext-ish? Are you literally saying that the authors made the male queer media as thin as possible in order to sell it to a male audience? Yes? |
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| It's not about one thing or another, it's the sum of everything they put in the movie and out of it. If it was only one thing or two, of course it wouldn't be enough to defend that the producers wanted to subtly show them as a couple. But there are a bunch of things together, that make it possible to see it as such. As I said, I disagree calling it fanservice or queerbait. For me, the bait scene was the one with Aina on ice (poor girl...). Have you seen the ring merch? It was even advertised as jewerly kit for couples. Plus the design. And it's not only a romantic song, is a song composed exclusively for the movie, that played at certain scenes, and were said to be about the characters. Besides the other ton of things I said. And of course they made it thin, homophobia exists, you know. Sadly, I think it's still a risky move to put queer characters on shows that have a big demographic. I've seen a lot of vocal people complaining that woudn't watch Promare because of the CPR scene. Works that have lgbtq+ themes or even undertones are usually built around it, and made with another demographic in mind. Just recently this is starting to change. Another thing, why should it be explicitly said that it's romance? This is not the focus of the movie. It was a sub-plot treated naturally, and that's what it makes it good. This happens a lot actually, especially in action movies, adventure, or family friendly ones. Just hint the couple, and never make it explicit. And this talking about straight ones. And note, I never discarded bromance. What I am defending is that the producers hinted love. Key word, hint. Basing on the direction, design and writing choices they made. |
Mah_Long said: It's not about one thing or another, it's the sum of everything they put in the movie and out of it. If it was only one thing or two, of course it wouldn't be enough to defend that the producers wanted to subtly show them as a couple. But there are a bunch of things together, that make it possible to see it as such. As I said, I disagree calling it fanservice or queerbait. For me, the bait scene was the one with Aina on ice (poor girl...). Have you seen the ring merch? It was even advertised as jewerly kit for couples. Plus the design. And it's not only a romantic song, is a song composed exclusively for the movie, that played at certain scenes, and were said to be about the characters. Besides the other ton of things I said. And of course they made it thin, homophobia exists, you know. Sadly, I think it's still a risky move to put queer characters on shows that have a big demographic. I've seen a lot of vocal people complaining that woudn't watch Promare because of the CPR scene. Works that have lgbtq+ themes or even undertones are usually built around it, and made with another demographic in mind. Just recently this is starting to change. Another thing, why should it be explicitly said that it's romance? This is not the focus of the movie. It was a sub-plot treated naturally, and that's what it makes it good. This happens a lot actually, especially in action movies, adventure, or family friendly ones. Just hint the couple, and never make it explicit. And this talking about straight ones. And note, I never discarded bromance. What I am defending is that the producers hinted love. Key word, hint. Basing on the direction, design and writing choices they made. That is, it is literally easier for you to take authors as cynical businessmen who erase possible queer content as much as possible in order to sell the film not only fujo, but also straight male audience, than to accept that it is nothing more than a ship? Okay. And do you really think they expected the male audience to continue going to the movies after all the media announced that it was queer work? Ahaha, show me at least 2-3 straight titles where romance would be as subtle as potential romance here. Even the most subtle romantic work never pretends it can be friendship rather than romance. Hinted, lol. Oregairu has done a bit of homoeroticism between Yui and Yukinon for years, to the point that many yuri fans would call "yuri subtext". Should we assume that Yukinon x Yui was hinted and is the canon ship? If baiting is to be taken as seriously as possible, then why can't we do the same with it? Danganronpa's creators sold cakes with ships. LITERALLY with ships, yes. Kyoani used the red thread for Kumiko and Rei's friendship, and I'm not even talking about how you stubbornly ignore the existence of romantic themes in a whole bunch of bromance shows. What's next? Is this the first show where you've seen this kind of fan service and merch? |
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| so two homies arent allowed to perform cpr on each other anymore .... smh ..... |
[img align=right] |
| Yaoi/BL implies more than that there are gay characters, not even that there are gay couples. But rather that there's a primary focus on romance between people of the same sex. Given this, no one's calling Promare yaoi/BL, apart from OP in his title. |
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Auron_ said: Yaoi/BL implies more than that there are gay characters, not even that there are gay couples. But rather that there's a primary focus on romance between people of the same sex. Given this, no one's calling Promare yaoi/BL, apart from OP in his title. I could say a lot about the fact that you perfectly understand what I wanted to say and why such a literal reading of the title is once again extremely funny, but come on, tell this to the owners of Japanese bookstores who put in the yuri department all the works in which there is lesbian content anyway, not necessarily as the main focus. Or should I now attack all the people who call the show yuri because of the lesbians in it, if these lesbians are not the main focus? |
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| Imagine not choosing Aina lol |
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