Oregairu isn't deep, it's common sense (and melodramatic sometimes).

IrrelevantGuy said:
First of all, if you are going to make a valid and constructive criticism, you have to elaborate the flaws of OreGairu. But here you just said some random stuffs like "The MC is a mega simp" and "Highschool bullshit" and didn't even explain why you think so.

2shizukasensei88 said:


Simp - This is mostly a criticism towards the LN and probably can be also applied to the last season, Hachiman puts Yukino in a pedestal, even after "he stopped" doing that, and a lot of his monologue about Yukino, is quite simpy (if that was a word).

Highschool Bullshit - The way that highschool is romanticized, and all of this social politics bitchcraft warfare, it's kinda cringe tbh.

kyou0220 said:
I stopped taking your post seriously at the mention of "mega simp"

Although, yes, it's not that deep, but your post isnt that well written either, to be blunt.

apollojeez said:
Alright let's try to break this down.

1. Too much pandering: Sure, I guess. It's not anywhere near as outrageous or bothersome as it is in most high school shows but I too think that it'd have a better vibe overall if fanservice was a lot more limited.

2. Highschool Bullshit: I can vaguely get your point is, but your criticism based on said point seems rather weak. I say with a somewhat convincing degree of confidence that in the context of anime, Oregairu stands out with how it decides to treat high school kids as what they are to a very good extent, instead of making them do adult shit and just sticking a tag of a 16/17 year-old so that younger audiences can try to connect with them a bit more. You might think I'm not really disproving your point as such but you barely made a point to begin with. You just threw a bunch of vague words onto a post that seemed like it was meant to give proper reasons in regards to a negative opinion about Oregairu.

3. Average Heroines (Saki, Haruno, and Sensei has better chemistry with Hachiman, than the 3 main girls): Alright first of all, protagonists don't NEED to have chemistry in order for their dynamic to work. It depends from story to story. In Oregairu's case, it's about how the three help each other improve, either consciously or subconsciously. If you paired Hachiman up with someone who had similar views on society as he did, then sure they might have a lot of conversational chemistry but they literally wouldn't get anywhere as characters. So you calling the female protagonists average using just chemistry as your justification is a very weak claim. Besides, Hachiman and Yukino do have great chemistry, IMO. As for the characters you mentioned, Haruno and Sensei are there to do a completely different job and they do it very well. They act as catalysts, in order to essentially guide or make the service club face their problems that they might otherwise ignore. Saki, however, could've had more to her. Despite barely getting much attention since her arc in S1 ended, I prefer her over Iroha.

4. The MC is a mega simp: Kinda odd you make comments about people not being exposing themselves to a wider range of media, and then you go on and say this. Are you sure you even know what a simp is? Lemme help you out. A simp is someone who actively engages in submissive behaviour in a desperate attempt to get some sort of behaviour in return, presumably romantic. Thinking a lot about one person, and having monologues about her beauty, is completely fine, especially if you're in love with said person. If you think that these monologues are kinda excessive or cringe, then fine. More power to you. But it's hilarious of you to call Hachiman a simp because of this lmao.

5. Romance is average: This is more subjective, I guess. I believe exactly the opposite. Oregairu treats romance as the end product of people developing together as characters and trying to become good friends, rather than having it as an omnipresent theme. Yes, this means that the romance aspect ends up being quite hidden for the most part, and people do complain about that. However, for me this is easily superior to other shows where they shove romance in our faces all the time instead of making us care for the characters. Sure, Oregairu falls under the romance category but I wouldn't be doing the story justice if all I was interested in was finding out who the MC ends up getting laid by.

6. Cringe sometimes: I'll give you this one. I've had a hard time getting people to watch this show because the early parts of season 1 do consist of plenty of cringe. Outside of those initial episodes, there are also other moments that I don't personally find to be cringe, but I could see why someone less invested in the characters and the story would.

Above all that, your post makes very little sense. If you just wanna shoot general criticisms at Oregairu, sure go ahead. But your main point is clearly directed at the depth of the story, which is weird because almost none of your smaller points actually justify the main one. A story can have pandering (as long as it is not excessive, and in Oregairu's case it most certainly isn't), average heroines, average romance, a mega simp, and cringe, yet still be considered deep. Sure, it might not be an incredibly well executed deep story, but it could be a deep story nonetheless depending on what themes and messages are incorporated. High school bullshit is the only thing that could prove a lack of depth, but I've already talked about why this point seems like a bunch of vague bullshit to me.

On top of all that, your main point is pretty ambiguous in nature. In the post itself you mention that you enjoy Oregairu, but you don't think it's the deepest shit ever, thus implying that there is at least some depth involved, but not as much as others might portray. On the other hand, in the title you say that Oregairu isn't deep and instead it's just common sense, implying that there is very little to no depth involved. Since I have plenty of time on my hands, I'll tackle both interpretations of your main point.

- "This is not the deepest shit ever": I'm fairly certain in saying that not that many Oregairu fans genuinely believe that this story is the "deepest shit ever". Don't get me wrong. We still rave about its depth but with awareness that it's not deeper than some other stuff. At the end of the day, for someone to find quality in a 'deep' story, it's not just about the level of depth, but also about the level of connectivity. Lemme give you an example. I believe 3-gatsu no lion has more depth than Oregairu. But I connect with the characters and the story of Oregairu more. Therefore, I prefer the depth explored in Oregairu over the depth explored in 3-gatsu (which is also pretty good). So you'll find me raving about Oregairu's depth instead of caring too much about 3-gatsu, which actually has more depth IMO. My point here being that your main point has very little to offer because it's common sense, which allows me to segue into my next interpretation of your post...

- "Oregairu isn't deep, it's common sense": I don't know how you see 'depth' in a story but it seems to vastly differ from the way I see it. Although 'common sense' is not the word I'd use, at its core, most 'deep' stories have a message that is pretty straightforward once you as a member of the audience have attained a certain level of maturity or wisdom. In Oregairu's case it's something along the lines of "take the risk of being hurt in relationships because that's part of the process towards making the desirable genuine connections". It seems like a fairly straightforward message. Obviously in life you can't always expect things to come to you on a plate without actually risking anything of value. But when you compare it to various other 'deep' stories, what do they have? "If you're feeling depressed, you should talk to others and get help"; "Even if you're lonely now, one day you'll find someone or a group of people who will be there for you"; "There are people in the world who will like you for who you are, so don't change yourself just to appeal to some people"; "You can't change the past. What's done is done. You must move on", etc. They're all pretty simple in nature. In fact, I'd argue that they're even more simple and straightforward than what Oregairu has to offer. But does that mean that these stories don't have any depth? No of course not. Very rarely would you find a story that dives deep into an idea or a message that the vast majority of grown individuals aren't inherently aware of. It's about the execution and the journey. And that's something that I believe Oregairu does very well for the most part. The way you simplify its message into "don't like a retard" can be done for basically anything else if you're willing to go that far lol. It's fine if you believe that the execution is lacking, as long as you understand that the point you made about common sense is actually non-sense.

apollojeez said:
Alright let's try to break this down.

1. Too much pandering: Sure, I guess. It's not anywhere near as outrageous or bothersome as it is in most high school shows but I too think that it'd have a better vibe overall if fanservice was a lot more limited.

2. Highschool Bullshit: I can vaguely get your point is, but your criticism based on said point seems rather weak. I say with a somewhat convincing degree of confidence that in the context of anime, Oregairu stands out with how it decides to treat high school kids as what they are to a very good extent, instead of making them do adult shit and just sticking a tag of a 16/17 year-old so that younger audiences can try to connect with them a bit more. You might think I'm not really disproving your point as such but you barely made a point to begin with. You just threw a bunch of vague words onto a post that seemed like it was meant to give proper reasons in regards to a negative opinion about Oregairu.

3. Average Heroines (Saki, Haruno, and Sensei has better chemistry with Hachiman, than the 3 main girls): Alright first of all, protagonists don't NEED to have chemistry in order for their dynamic to work. It depends from story to story. In Oregairu's case, it's about how the three help each other improve, either consciously or subconsciously. If you paired Hachiman up with someone who had similar views on society as he did, then sure they might have a lot of conversational chemistry but they literally wouldn't get anywhere as characters. So you calling the female protagonists average using just chemistry as your justification is a very weak claim. Besides, Hachiman and Yukino do have great chemistry, IMO. As for the characters you mentioned, Haruno and Sensei are there to do a completely different job and they do it very well. They act as catalysts, in order to essentially guide or make the service club face their problems that they might otherwise ignore. Saki, however, could've had more to her. Despite barely getting much attention since her arc in S1 ended, I prefer her over Iroha.

4. The MC is a mega simp: Kinda odd you make comments about people not being exposing themselves to a wider range of media, and then you go on and say this. Are you sure you even know what a simp is? Lemme help you out. A simp is someone who actively engages in submissive behaviour in a desperate attempt to get some sort of behaviour in return, presumably romantic. Thinking a lot about one person, and having monologues about her beauty, is completely fine, especially if you're in love with said person. If you think that these monologues are kinda excessive or cringe, then fine. More power to you. But it's hilarious of you to call Hachiman a simp because of this lmao.

5. Romance is average: This is more subjective, I guess. I believe exactly the opposite. Oregairu treats romance as the end product of people developing together as characters and trying to become good friends, rather than having it as an omnipresent theme. Yes, this means that the romance aspect ends up being quite hidden for the most part, and people do complain about that. However, for me this is easily superior to other shows where they shove romance in our faces all the time instead of making us care for the characters. Sure, Oregairu falls under the romance category but I wouldn't be doing the story justice if all I was interested in was finding out who the MC ends up getting laid by.

6. Cringe sometimes: I'll give you this one. I've had a hard time getting people to watch this show because the early parts of season 1 do consist of plenty of cringe. Outside of those initial episodes, there are also other moments that I don't personally find to be cringe, but I could see why someone less invested in the characters and the story would.

Above all that, your post makes very little sense. If you just wanna shoot general criticisms at Oregairu, sure go ahead. But your main point is clearly directed at the depth of the story, which is weird because almost none of your smaller points actually justify the main one. A story can have pandering (as long as it is not excessive, and in Oregairu's case it most certainly isn't), average heroines, average romance, a mega simp, and cringe, yet still be considered deep. Sure, it might not be an incredibly well executed deep story, but it could be a deep story nonetheless depending on what themes and messages are incorporated. High school bullshit is the only thing that could prove a lack of depth, but I've already talked about why this point seems like a bunch of vague bullshit to me.

On top of all that, your main point is pretty ambiguous in nature. In the post itself you mention that you enjoy Oregairu, but you don't think it's the deepest shit ever, thus implying that there is at least some depth involved, but not as much as others might portray. On the other hand, in the title you say that Oregairu isn't deep and instead it's just common sense, implying that there is very little to no depth involved. Since I have plenty of time on my hands, I'll tackle both interpretations of your main point.

- "This is not the deepest shit ever": I'm fairly certain in saying that not that many Oregairu fans genuinely believe that this story is the "deepest shit ever". Don't get me wrong. We still rave about its depth but with awareness that it's not deeper than some other stuff. At the end of the day, for someone to find quality in a 'deep' story, it's not just about the level of depth, but also about the level of connectivity. Lemme give you an example. I believe 3-gatsu no lion has more depth than Oregairu. But I connect with the characters and the story of Oregairu more. Therefore, I prefer the depth explored in Oregairu over the depth explored in 3-gatsu (which is also pretty good). So you'll find me raving about Oregairu's depth instead of caring too much about 3-gatsu, which actually has more depth IMO. My point here being that your main point has very little to offer because it's common sense, which allows me to segue into my next interpretation of your post...

- "Oregairu isn't deep, it's common sense": I don't know how you see 'depth' in a story but it seems to vastly differ from the way I see it. Although 'common sense' is not the word I'd use, at its core, most 'deep' stories have a message that is pretty straightforward once you as a member of the audience have attained a certain level of maturity or wisdom. In Oregairu's case it's something along the lines of "take the risk of being hurt in relationships because that's part of the process towards making the desirable genuine connections". It seems like a fairly straightforward message. Obviously in life you can't always expect things to come to you on a plate without actually risking anything of value. But when you compare it to various other 'deep' stories, what do they have? "If you're feeling depressed, you should talk to others and get help"; "Even if you're lonely now, one day you'll find someone or a group of people who will be there for you"; "There are people in the world who will like you for who you are, so don't change yourself just to appeal to some people"; "You can't change the past. What's done is done. You must move on", etc. They're all pretty simple in nature. In fact, I'd argue that they're even more simple and straightforward than what Oregairu has to offer. But does that mean that these stories don't have any depth? No of course not. Very rarely would you find a story that dives deep into an idea or a message that the vast majority of grown individuals aren't inherently aware of. It's about the execution and the journey. And that's something that I believe Oregairu does very well for the most part. The way you simplify its message into "don't like a retard" can be done for basically anything else if you're willing to go that far lol. It's fine if you believe that the execution is lacking, as long as you understand that the point you made about common sense is actually non-sense.

2shizukasensei88 said:


2.The social politics warfare and all of the shitty HS drama.

3.Probably the part the pisses me off the most about this anime, the best characters in show is only gets a few screentime, while the cardboard cutouts gets everything else.

4.Hyperbole

5.The romance is meh

I didn't really say/explained a lot shit, mostly because it was said before already.

I didn't really say/explained a lot shit, mostly because it was said before already.

2shizukasensei88 said:


Well I'm a shit writer, so what do you expect?

apollojeez said:

2. Yet again you're throwing words and expecting them to come across as actual points. I vaguely get what you mean but I can't address it unless you communicate yourself properly, because "social politics warfare" is just not the right term to use when it comes to Oregairu.

3. Many congrats on using so many words to express your inner feelings. Would it be possible for you to use some more and actually explain why exactly Yukino & Yui are cardboard cutouts to you? For me, they both have plenty to offer when it comes to how unique they are. Yui is kind and caring, but also selfish. She wants the service club to develop genuine relationships but starts having second thoughts when she realises what might end up happening if they all were to truly be genuine to their feelings. Yukino is someone who comes across as incredibly strong and determined when it comes to helping other people, but the exact opposite when it comes to helping herself. She is lost, weak, and in desperate need of support. Support that she isn't able to find within her own family. Just when she starts to believe that the people in the service club will be her support, things start to imply otherwise, leaving her even more desperate. Sure they might not be the most unique and special characters in the history of media, but far far ahead of the 'cardboard cutout' description. Anyway it would be nice if you were to try to use words and disprove my points but I won't hold too many expectations.

4. Your point being shit in this case is not a result of hyperbole, but instead a result of it being wrong and non-sensical at its very core. Try again.

5. You: "Romance is average"
Me: "Sure I guess this is rather subjective but here's why I think the romance is actually pretty good."
You: "The romance is meh"
Someone give this kid an award.


Wh-What?


It's not about being shit at writing. Just try a little harder to have any effective contribution in the very discussion you started. At this point you're just throwing words (some of which I feel like you yourself don't know the meaning of) and hoping for the best.

2shizukasensei88 said:
4.The MC is a mega simp.

Angelus_Lovell said:
#1

2shizukasensei88, couldn't agree more.



1. Too much pandering.
Yes, wtf with the characters, they just starts sulking for every small matter. Word sulking cannot even begin to describe that. I mean what the hell they are friends right. Then why and how the hell they severe ties just like that for some daily-troubles.


2. Highschool Bullshit.
Yes, I mean how can a high school life be interesting. It's only interesting when it has romance element in it. And also when it has some relatable and lovable character as a slice of life series.


3. Average heroines.
Same opinion.

4. The MC is a mega simp.
Yes, but i don't think it contributes anything to make the series less interesting.
The problem though lies with MC trying to be extra smart when he is not. He is smart but not enough to make a show around it. His antics is not that great to always highlight it or to change flow of the show based on that.

5. Romance is average.
Yes romance is average.....
There was not much romance to begin with, why wouldn't it be average. Only part which felt like romance was "saika's" screentime with haciman even if it was gay. To me it was breather from their messed up relationship haciman had with other heroines.
I think simply adding more romance would really make the show less annoying and keep the viewers attention occupied.

6. Cringe sometimes.
Yes, i definitely feel that.

RinTosakaSenpai said:
Wait but why do you have so much criticism when you rated S1 a 10?

2shizukasensei88 said:


Simp - This is mostly a criticism towards the LN and probably can be also applied to the last season, Hachiman puts Yukino in a pedestal, even after "he stopped" doing that, and a lot of his monologue about Yukino, is quite simpy (if that was a word).

Highschool Bullshit - The way that highschool is romanticized, and all of this social politics bitchcraft warfare, it's kinda cringe tbh.

Unhallowad said:
Flaws of this poster

1.Too much pandering. --> Shows you are hollow as a person

2.Highschool Bullshit. --> Hs trauma or loner years.

3.Average Heroines (Saki, Haruno, and Sensei has better chemistry with Hachiman, than the 3 main girls). --> you never talked to a girl in your life.

4.The MC is a mega simp. --> When a MEGA like you virgin writes this, it becomes less believable

5.Romance is average. --> You never had a partner in your life.

6.Cringe sometimes. --> Life is full of cringy things, get used to it lad.

blessofcurse said:
I wonder why still people call this romance when it is not.
Well yeah I agree with some of the op mentioned. Some of the drama were cringey, the heroines are so generic. I also prefer the style of the 1st studio that did the adaptation.

apollojeez said:

Hmm so how would you define a 'romance' anime?

blessofcurse said:

You can just google the defintion of romance or you can just watch some anime with REAL romance to see the difference. Lol
Heck i wont even put romance as a sub genre of Oregairu.
If you consider Oregairu as a romance then why do you think it is?

blessofcurse said:
There was no progression between the characters involved romantically. It is not even clear if the mc is in love with any of the heroines tbh and I cant see him pursuing romance