Overlord (light novel)
00784212 said: Lease_of_Life said: Wait, are we supposed to feel sorry for those who found a plethora of gold outside the tomb and decided to raid it anyway? Who were secretly in foreign, enemy territory? Who forfeited protection by the adventurer's guild in order to be able to take dirty, lucrative jobs? Who would have certainly spared no one from Nazarick that was weaker than them? For all we know, those guys view undead with the same contempt Nazarick views humans. Ainz' mission is clear: to spread the name of Nazarick, and ensure its survival. And he isn't being any more cruel than he needs to in order to accomplish that. Arche's situation is sad, unbelievably so, but Ainz is in no way guilty of it. Why don't you hate on her parents, who were supposed to care for and love her? Hell, Ainz literally asked what they were there for. They responded: "gold". They found gold. They proceeded to desecrate the tomb anyway. Since the very start, Ainz is the invader. Ainz and Nazarick, are not native of NW and from that: - The workers are simply native aborigines sent to investigate an alien spaceship that's suddenly parked on their backyard - Ainz and co have zero right to judge their motive - Ainz is the one that orchestrated their intrusion, so "self defense" is not an excuse. Ainz is an irredeemable jerk. Pop Quiz! who am I describing: Magical girl that would do anything for her sister, becomes a hired thug despite knowing the risk. Impudently tries to desecrate the fortress of a supreme being from another world. that Magical girl's companion, doing it for fun and profit Supreme being from another world Again, the workers are in FOREIGN, ENEMY territory. The Tomb is not in Baharuth. |
| "I will become his world and will make him my world" - You really should know who said this. "Firing at unarmed citizens is a feat that those without courage and a chivalrous spirit simply cannot accomplish." - Oskar von Reuenthal "No way Spirited Away is better than Akira. NO WAY." - Kanye West |
00784212 said: Lease_of_Life said: Again, the workers are in FOREIGN, ENEMY territory. The Tomb is not in Baharuth. those workers are foreign, Ainz and Nazarick is more foreign, he's a literal alien. To make it simple, Arche is wrong for being a prostitute, Ainz is more wrong for being an antisocial mass murderer (also a liar, scammer, animal abuser, tax evader, and a whiner) again, he got no right to comment or judge. That's one of the worst analogies I have read in my entire life... |
 |
00784212 said: Andri79 said: What you say is only from a human perspective. Even though humans have intelligence and can speak, the Nazarick still regard them as livestock. Maybe what I say is inappropriate. But, we are discussing about Overlord. What separate between livestock and pet, are levels of sentience. The lowest would be simple indication of will, while the highest proofs of sentience, is the ability to engage in subjective communication. Ainz and his diehard fans ignores that because Ainz just want to abuse small animal. Regarding your other point. Ainz is a self-proclaimed overlord but treats his potential subject as livestock. See how incoherent that sentence is? Its because Ainz is just a wannabe, a poser, a fake, and you know it because its what this crap titled "overlord" is about: "pretending to be an overlord" Quit trolling already. Your entire account was created for Overlord bashing and you can't even have a single post without resorting to logical fallacies. |
|
00784212 said: It's painful that you don't seem recognize the irony here.Grey-Zone said: Quit trolling already. Your entire account was created for Overlord bashing and you can't even have a single post without resorting to logical fallacies. More fallacy: "tis a bash" "troll" "fake account" fal·la·cy ˈfaləsē/Submit a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument. My belief is Ainz is an unrepentant sociopathic genocidal moron, read my previous post for the arguments. Your belief is Ainz is not what I said, and your argument was: - I'm biased = Ad hominem - my account is fake = strawman - I just want to bash = attacking the motive - Ainz is just following demiurge plan = ad ignorantum - Ainz is not the invader, he didn't know how he get there = ad ignorantum - Ainz is just doing some self-defense = false dilemma - Ainz is kind if its to nazarick, and said nazarick = circular whatever fallacy. Pot calling a kettle black much? |
00784212 said: More fallacy: "tis a bash" "troll" "fake account" fal·la·cy ˈfaləsē/Submit a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument. My belief is Ainz is an unrepentant sociopathic genocidal moron, read my previous post for the arguments. Ainz has no "alternative" than being invader as he doesn't know how to leave and he acts in self-defense against those who already acted against him, who seem to have a dangerous super weapon (i.e. world-level item) back when he was only trying to understand his situation. And most importantly, he DOESN'T KNOW THEIR IDENTITY, unlike us omniscient readers, he doesn't even know that it's the theocracy. As for your laughable "rebuttal": 00784212 said: - I'm biased = Ad hominem - my account is fake = strawman - I just want to bash = attacking the motive - Ainz is just following demiurge plan = ad ignorantum - Ainz is not the invader, he didn't know how he get there = ad ignorantum - Ainz is just doing some self-defense = false dilemma - Ainz is kind if its to nazarick, and said nazarick = circular whatever fallacy. - no one is unbiased - I never said it's fake, just that most if not all posts of this account of yours are about bashing Overlord - based on your actions/track record, NOT based on speculations of your inner thought process - he knows demi-urge's plans and even complains about it and has no reason to lie about it. What's your point? - he has no way of "not being an invader" other than complete isolation or suicide - you cannot apply meta knowledge that only omniscient reader knows to the characters's actions, that's just idiotic - what are you even talking about? You don't even seem to believe your own words with that lazy response You are really bad at this. |
|
| ^He talks about the content of the plan right then and there. You are confusing the timeframes it seems. Forgot the flashback in S3 EP6 where Demi-Urge starts to explain his plan to Ainz? And how Ainz (as Momon) thinks about the merits of the plan and says "it's already too late to stop it?" That happens before the Worker battle in S3 EP8. The scene in S3 EP9 in regards to discussing Momon's role in the plan, was about the aftermath, I guess Demi-Urge explanation only went up until gaining control over E-Rantel. But in regards to the Worker situation, Ainz was already informed, you just seemed to have forgotten. And the "invader issue" was, of course from the perspective of the natives (the framework you were using the whole time), not an omniscient objective outside observer. From an omniscient perspective Nazarick is not an invader but a stranded entity. Obviously it would make no sense for the natives to think of that and they'd also be unlikely to believe that, even if Ainz explained his situation, so to them Nazarick is an invader the moment they are aware of their existence. But the cruicial difference between Nazarick and the Workers is agency. The Workers had a choice to invade or to take a different job instead. Arche could have abandoned her parents much earlier instead of always procrastinating her and her sister's leaving the family. Nazarick however was just thrown into the new world. And when they were checking their situation they were attacked by an unknown attacker who has a super weapon that might be a threat to nazarick. Who knows when they'll attack again? That aside, I don't think Ainz is "judging" the motives of the Workers in terms of morality in the first place. He even said that them lying about his friends was for their own survival, but it still makes him angry anyway because the milk was already spilt. He himself said that he's a hypocrite back when he killed Clementine though, so what is your point here? |
Grey-ZoneSep 26, 2018 10:10 AM
|
00784212 said: Grey-Zone said: ^He talks about the content of the plan right then and there. You are confusing the timeframes it seems. Forgot the flashback in S3 EP6 where Demi-Urge starts to explain his plan to Ainz? And how Ainz (as Momon) thinks about the merits of the plan and says "it's already too late to stop it?" That happens before the Worker battle in S3 EP8. The scene in S3 EP9 in regards to discussing Momon's role in the plan, was about the aftermath, I guess Demi-Urge explanation only went up until gaining control over E-Rantel. But in regards to the Worker situation, Ainz was already informed, you just seemed to have forgotten. And the "invader issue" was, of course from the perspective of the natives (the framework you were using the whole time), not an omniscient objective outside observer. From an omniscient perspective Nazarick is not an invader but a stranded entity. Obviously it would make no sense for the natives to think of that and they'd also be unlikely to believe that, even if Ainz explained his situation, so to them Nazarick is an invader the moment they are aware of their existence. But the cruicial difference between Nazarick and the Workers is agency. The Workers had a choice to invade or to take a different job instead. Arche could have abandoned her parents much earlier instead of always procrastinating her and her sister's leaving the family. Nazarick however was just thrown into the new world. And when they were checking their situation they were attacked by an unknown attacker who has a super weapon that might be a threat to nazarick. Who knows when they'll attack again? That aside, I don't think Ainz is "judging" the motives of the Workers in terms of morality in the first place. He even said that them lying about his friends was for their own survival, but it still makes him angry anyway because the milk was already spilt. He himself said that he's a hypocrite back when he killed Clementine though, so what is your point here? Ainz is an irredeemable jerk. You still didn't present a reasonable alternative. Your statement as is, is unfalsifiable. Of course that's only relevant if your point is that Ainz is an "irredeemable jerk" by choice. If, instead, your point is that he is an "irredeemable jerk" just by existing and preserving his life to the best of his own knowledge and skills, then I won't have anything more to say to that. I won't say anything about you having that opinion, as that is largely just equivalent with "taking sides" with the natives. |
|
Grey-Zone said: - he knows demi-urge's plans and even complains about it and has no reason to lie about it. What's your point? Aintz didnt know what Demiurge's plan in season 2 was until he met up with him near the finale. That's just one example showing that Demiurge is the one really in control, and not Aintz. Another example is him not knowing about the Demiurge's human farm where he got his ''parchment'' for the scrolls from. First can be excused as being outplayed, but the second is clearly ignorance. Which shouldn't happen. How did Aintz gain all that power in Yggdrassil? It seems like he was really just carried to the top by his guild, and didnt actually achieve much on his own at all. It's interesting as I've started watching Isekai Maou today, and while setting-wise and fanservice wise its not written as well, the MC actually feels a top gamer, showing his knowledge of the ''game mechanics'' and clever thinking in general. Aintz should also have these qualities with his background, yet after season 1 he never really displays them. In stark contrast to season 1 where you can tell from both the Shaltear fight and the fight against the knights in the village that he is capable of clever thinking. What happend to that? While I don't disagree that their arguments aren't great, from my perspective I can say the same about yours. Altho in your defense, yours are still a lot better then most of the other posters here, who feel the need to defend Overlords flaws and claim they dont exist. That doesn't change that there's some critical flaws with the writing (of the anime, I cant comment on the source material) and that it just went downhill after season 1. Grey-Zone said: Ainz has no "alternative" than being invader as he doesn't know how to leave and he acts in self-defense against those who already acted against him, who seem to have a dangerous super weapon (i.e. world-level item) back when he was only trying to understand his situation. And most importantly, he DOESN'T KNOW THEIR IDENTITY, unlike us omniscient readers, he doesn't even know that it's the theocracy. That's not true. He was the one that made sure those adventurers would go to the catacomb after all. He's definately the aggressor there, just like Demiurge and cocytus were in season 2. On top of that, one can argue that the way he goes about taking over the world is incredibly stupid considering he doesn't know anything about his opposition; the world item you are talking about. I would make a lot more sense to find out where they are rather then painting a big target on himself. After all nothing he actually does in any of the 3 seasons helps him gain any more (relevant) power to defend his crew. So all it does is make him more vulnerable to attack. Which makes the whole ''he's just defending himself!'' a worthless argument. Andri79 said: 00784212 said: I said, your reasonings are pretty much Things a rapist, pedophile, murderer, terrorist, and pretty much all P2W douchebag bullies in every MMO would say. What are your argument? I speak based on facts. I think I have made an argument clearly, based on 2 perspectives and what has been stated by maruyama. Didn't I already point out several times that what's not true can't be a fact? Grey-Zone said: Ainz isn't "evil for the lulz", he is just following Demi-Urge's plan. And he is very territorial about Nazarick and shows his wrath towards those who show bad intentions towards Nazarick as a whole, like those who want to rob the tomb. Everything consistent with Ainz's character. You saw what happens when Ainz gets just "a bit displeased" back when he dealt with Clementine, but this time you saw him get angry not only about the thieves' invasions and theft attempt but also about the thieves lying about his friends. Nothing for the lulz here. What I mean to say with ''evil for the lulz'' as I explained it in previous posts already: Aintz is doing evil evil things just because ''he is evil so he should do really horrible things right??'' not because of his character, or excellent plot reasons. It's ''evil for the sake of evil'' or ''evil for the lulz'' which means the same thing. Also, Aintz didnt even know about the plan untill finale of season 2. Shows that its really Demiurge's plan, and not his. Grey-Zone said: And "Demi-Urge possibly controlling Ainz"? That was just your delusion. Demi-Urge was always loyal, you see it not only at the very beginning of the series, like his expression being full of reverence, but there is also that super shocked face moment when he heard Ainz say "maybe world conquest wouldn't be bad" - and all of Demi-Urge's actions were based on these words, which you probably forgot (no need to feel bad about it though, since Ainz forgot as well). There's also the fact that Demi-Urge often wags his tail like a dog, when he expects Ainz to tell him whether he did a good job or not. Dropped the act, I see? So much for courtesy. I already pointed out earlier in this thread (or the other one, I forgot) that it was a possible plot thread that they didn't pursue, and which seems unlikely at this point. How can something I speculated purely theoretically about, be my delussion? Perhaps you should bother to read my posts in their entirety, and try to understand my arguments. It does not give your arguments credibility when you use an argument that makes utterly no sense based on what I've already said... That's what he himself says, which you apparently didnt notice. I watched all of the anime in one go, so its much harder for me to forget details then I imagine it is for you. When did you last watch season 1? Since it was Demiurge who acted that way, obviously if he was trying to control events naturally he would aim to sell that as his reason for world conquest. You are trying to claim it cant be by reverse reasoning, explaining the actions based on what happens. Instead of trying to reason why these characters acted the way they did, you are simply saying: ''this is what they said and did, therefor they must be like that''. That only works with works that are completed. And since my theory was based solely off season 1 and season 2 (having already mentioned in an earlier post to someone else that its highly unlikely the author will pursue this plot thread) it doesn't add up either. Demiurge was actually going to countermand his order if he wasn't stopped, during the Shaltear fight. Shows how one-dimensional his loyalty is. He's more loyal to his ''programming'' then the wish of his Lord. This makes him the sort of character that's extremely likely to act as he wishes, because he believes he knows whats best for Aintz better then Aintz himself does. So certainly him trying to control Aintz into an overlord that's more similar to what he believes Aintz should be like was quite a viable possibility. Ofcourse all this theory is based on the magic that controls Aintz emotions. And no, a glowing effect that activates at certain times to ''douse'' Aintz feelings is not an Undead racial passive, because this is clearly not a passive effect. This keeps being said but I still havent seen any real argument desputing that his character...isn't really there anymore. With the constant changing from ''human salaryman'' personality to ''evil evil for the lulz'' at seemingly random and not properly explained moments he seems more like a psychopath then a human player in an undead body, or an evil overlord. With all the power he has his random fits of rage like the one in the arena make zero sense. Rage is a natural response to feeling powerless. I can't imagine Aintz in his current state ever feeling that. He has absolute defense, a perfect body that knows no pain or illness, absolute attack power, and he can ressurect whoever he wants. Why the hell would he get upset about a mention of his friends? Which makes even less sense since the more he gets into his evil overlord role the less he should care about the other world (and his previous friends). Because you know, evil undead overlords dont care. Despite the world and series as a whole being less well written Isekai Maou has a far more believable MC. Aintz just isn't a believable character anymore after season 1, and the reason for that is purely because the author pandered to sadist fetishes instead of their previous well written characterisation. |
| “Ha ha, the synergy between my left and right hand made them feel scared.” Ye Xiu said. |
Elinchayiel said: lol isekai maou, I hope you enjoy watching a goody two shoes pussy mc fuck women.Grey-Zone said: - he knows demi-urge's plans and even complains about it and has no reason to lie about it. What's your point? Aintz didnt know what Demiurge's plan in season 2 was until he met up with him near the finale. That's just one example showing that Demiurge is the one really in control, and not Aintz. Another example is him not knowing about the Demiurge's human farm where he got his ''parchment'' for the scrolls from. First can be excused as being outplayed, but the second is clearly ignorance. Which shouldn't happen. How did Aintz gain all that power in Yggdrassil? It seems like he was really just carried to the top by his guild, and didnt actually achieve much on his own at all. It's interesting as I've started watching Isekai Maou today, and while setting-wise and fanservice wise its not written as well, the MC actually feels a top gamer, showing his knowledge of the ''game mechanics'' and clever thinking in general. Aintz should also have these qualities with his background, yet after season 1 he never really displays them. In stark contrast to season 1 where you can tell from both the Shaltear fight and the fight against the knights in the village that he is capable of clever thinking. What happend to that? While I don't disagree that their arguments aren't great, from my perspective I can say the same about yours. Altho in your defense, yours are still a lot better then most of the other posters here, who feel the need to defend Overlords flaws and claim they dont exist. That doesn't change that there's some critical flaws with the writing (of the anime, I cant comment on the source material) and that it just went downhill after season 1. Grey-Zone said: Ainz has no "alternative" than being invader as he doesn't know how to leave and he acts in self-defense against those who already acted against him, who seem to have a dangerous super weapon (i.e. world-level item) back when he was only trying to understand his situation. And most importantly, he DOESN'T KNOW THEIR IDENTITY, unlike us omniscient readers, he doesn't even know that it's the theocracy. That's not true. He was the one that made sure those adventurers would go to the catacomb after all. He's definately the aggressor there, just like Demiurge and cocytus were in season 2. On top of that, one can argue that the way he goes about taking over the world is incredibly stupid considering he doesn't know anything about his opposition; the world item you are talking about. I would make a lot more sense to find out where they are rather then painting a big target on himself. After all nothing he actually does in any of the 3 seasons helps him gain any more (relevant) power to defend his crew. So all it does is make him more vulnerable to attack. Which makes the whole ''he's just defending himself!'' a worthless argument. Andri79 said: I speak based on facts. I think I have made an argument clearly, based on 2 perspectives and what has been stated by maruyama. Didn't I already point out several times that what's not true can't be a fact? Grey-Zone said: Ainz isn't "evil for the lulz", he is just following Demi-Urge's plan. And he is very territorial about Nazarick and shows his wrath towards those who show bad intentions towards Nazarick as a whole, like those who want to rob the tomb. Everything consistent with Ainz's character. You saw what happens when Ainz gets just "a bit displeased" back when he dealt with Clementine, but this time you saw him get angry not only about the thieves' invasions and theft attempt but also about the thieves lying about his friends. Nothing for the lulz here. What I mean to say with ''evil for the lulz'' as I explained it in previous posts already: Aintz is doing evil evil things just because ''he is evil so he should do really horrible things right??'' not because of his character, or excellent plot reasons. It's ''evil for the sake of evil'' or ''evil for the lulz'' which means the same thing. Also, Aintz didnt even know about the plan untill finale of season 2. Shows that its really Demiurge's plan, and not his. Grey-Zone said: And "Demi-Urge possibly controlling Ainz"? That was just your delusion. Demi-Urge was always loyal, you see it not only at the very beginning of the series, like his expression being full of reverence, but there is also that super shocked face moment when he heard Ainz say "maybe world conquest wouldn't be bad" - and all of Demi-Urge's actions were based on these words, which you probably forgot (no need to feel bad about it though, since Ainz forgot as well). There's also the fact that Demi-Urge often wags his tail like a dog, when he expects Ainz to tell him whether he did a good job or not. Dropped the act, I see? So much for courtesy. I already pointed out earlier in this thread (or the other one, I forgot) that it was a possible plot thread that they didn't pursue, and which seems unlikely at this point. How can something I speculated purely theoretically about, be my delussion? Perhaps you should bother to read my posts in their entirety, and try to understand my arguments. It does not give your arguments credibility when you use an argument that makes utterly no sense based on what I've already said... That's what he himself says, which you apparently didnt notice. I watched all of the anime in one go, so its much harder for me to forget details then I imagine it is for you. When did you last watch season 1? Since it was Demiurge who acted that way, obviously if he was trying to control events naturally he would aim to sell that as his reason for world conquest. You are trying to claim it cant be by reverse reasoning, explaining the actions based on what happens. Instead of trying to reason why these characters acted the way they did, you are simply saying: ''this is what they said and did, therefor they must be like that''. That only works with works that are completed. And since my theory was based solely off season 1 and season 2 (having already mentioned in an earlier post to someone else that its highly unlikely the author will pursue this plot thread) it doesn't add up either. Demiurge was actually going to countermand his order if he wasn't stopped, during the Shaltear fight. Shows how one-dimensional his loyalty is. He's more loyal to his ''programming'' then the wish of his Lord. This makes him the sort of character that's extremely likely to act as he wishes, because he believes he knows whats best for Aintz better then Aintz himself does. So certainly him trying to control Aintz into an overlord that's more similar to what he believes Aintz should be like was quite a viable possibility. Ofcourse all this theory is based on the magic that controls Aintz emotions. And no, a glowing effect that activates at certain times to ''douse'' Aintz feelings is not an Undead racial passive, because this is clearly not a passive effect. This keeps being said but I still havent seen any real argument desputing that his character...isn't really there anymore. With the constant changing from ''human salaryman'' personality to ''evil evil for the lulz'' at seemingly random and not properly explained moments he seems more like a psychopath then a human player in an undead body, or an evil overlord. With all the power he has his random fits of rage like the one in the arena make zero sense. Rage is a natural response to feeling powerless. I can't imagine Aintz in his current state ever feeling that. He has absolute defense, a perfect body that knows no pain or illness, absolute attack power, and he can ressurect whoever he wants. Why the hell would he get upset about a mention of his friends? Which makes even less sense since the more he gets into his evil overlord role the less he should care about the other world (and his previous friends). Because you know, evil undead overlords dont care. Despite the world and series as a whole being less well written Isekai Maou has a far more believable MC. Aintz just isn't a believable character anymore after season 1, and the reason for that is purely because the author pandered to sadist fetishes instead of their previous well written characterisation. |
AzorAhai said: They were doing their job. They got tortured and killed for no good reason. What was there to enjoy? overlord in a nutshell |
 |
| @Elinchayiel Let's be honest, you're writing "Aintz" just to annoy people, right? It can't possibly be unintentional... Also, go read the novel instead of wasting your precious time discussing about its summary. You can't possibly understand the complexity of Demiurge and Ainz as characters without actually reading the novel. The anime only shows about 1% of all the mental struggle that Ainz has when dealing with Demiurge. |
ColtBuntlineSep 26, 2018 4:02 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
00784212 said: Grey-Zone said: If, instead, your point is that he is an "irredeemable jerk" just by existing and preserving his life to the best of his own knowledge and skills, then I won't have anything more to say to that. I won't say anything about you having that opinion, as that is largely just equivalent with "taking sides" with the natives. Btw, I'm not stopping you from taking sides with an irredeemable jerk. We are all, at some point does, after all. EDIT: You kind of remind me of my old self so I don't want to pointlessly ruin your day. So, here's reasonable alternative, and that would come from your own "overload" theory. Why would someone want to "overload" Satoru in the first place? If he made enemies, its safe to assume that he's not your average innocent bystander. Probably the author intended him to be like Alex Mercer, an anarchist from the beginning, then plot twist, Satoru was actually dead and Ainz just using his memory as a base to start his life, and Ainz is an actual sentient virtual entity (like from 'permutation city') As to why he's acting like an actual salaryman, 2ch theory: YGGDRASIL is some kind of personality reprogramming experiment, Satoru and his guild mate was actually a deathrow inmate with him being the most irredeemable one. Combine it with yours, "Overload", is the code to execute his death sentence. Cool huh? But still with that, Ainz is an irredeemable jerk :p I accept your concession. Since you can't provide a scenario of how a "better" person would have acted in Ainz's scenario without being outright stupid or suicidal, I take it as either you simply deciding to side with the Natives (nothing wrong about that), or perhaps that you are a troll, considering your entire post is a deflection of my argument, suddenly bringing in completely unrelated stuff. The 2ch stuff is wrong because there is a scene that briefly shows Ainz in the real world in a normal apartment where he sits with his gear on. Then there's also the blu-ray special short-story novel Overlord: Prologue, which shows that his world is a dystopian society and that he really is a salaryman. @Elinchayiel You also didn't answer my core question of "what could Ainz have done differently without being stupid or suicidal". You also seem to have a completely off interpretation of how Ainz should or shouldn't act and you inject too many of your own opinions into it. He "shouldn't" have any feelings left for his friends? Seriously? It should be fairly obvious by now that Nazarick is everything to him, almost as if it was his own family, which is one of the main reasons why he tries to hard as a "flawless ruler" in the first place. It was his view before he even became an undead, so obviously being undead wouldn't affect him in that regard. Well a season 4, if done well enough, should resolve the Demi-Urge issue and any remaining lingering questions regarding that.. |
|
From an omniscient perspective Nazarick is not an invader but a stranded entity. Obviously it would make no sense for the natives to think of that and they'd also be unlikely to believe that, even if Ainz explained his situation, so to them Nazarick is an invader the moment they are aware of their existence. So they ARE invaders, but they also did not invade thus...what? They should do as they please? If ainz had explained they would still invade? That's your assumption that justifies the future atrocities, just like Nazis invading soviet union believing Russians would invade them anyway sooner or later. Again what is all this endless comments of yours leading to? For someone who has given 10/10 to anything Overlord related (anime/novel) and even has voice actor of Ainz as favorite, it's not surprising why you'd jump on protecting this "masterpiece". It's also interesting how you just jump in to a reply that i sent to someone else in the first place just to promote your agenda, and then decide to just ignore my post jumping to yet another different person to chant about the greatness of the show or the characters and their actions. Do you feel the need to protect this garbage so desperately? Not everyone is going to like this show, and you should at least try to understand the obvious instead of justifying EVERYTHING!But the cruicial difference between Nazarick and the Workers is agency. The Workers had a choice to invade or to take a different job instead. Arche could have abandoned her parents much earlier instead of always procrastinating her and her sister's leaving the family. Are you F-ing kidding me?! You're actually blaming a kind person for doing kindness and her inability to be stronger?! She was 15yo. Don't you have anything you regret doing in the past? Perhaps she did regret not doing anything sooner? Is it her fault for not being perfect since start? Are you seriously saying she should have chosen a different job so whatever happened the only person to blame is herself?! What is wrong with you? Are you so blind with fanboysm to such extent that you resort on glossing over the most undeniable atrocities of Nazarick and Ainz and portray them as "Justified!" while blaming the VICTIMS instead???? Nazarick however was just thrown into the new world. And when they were checking their situation they were attacked by an unknown attacker who has a super weapon that might be a threat to nazarick. Who knows when they'll attack again? pathetic, simply pathetic. "Nazarick did nothing wrong" "nazarick was only defending" "nazarick had no choice" "nazarick is doing everything for the well-being of the world they unintentionally invaded" You'd be a fine servant of nazarick, loyal, brainwashed fanatic who's unable to distinguish between good and evil when it comes to the deeds of his faithful overlord... That aside, I don't think Ainz is "judging" the motives of the Workers in terms of morality in the first place. He even said that them lying about his friends was for their own survival, but it still makes him angry anyway because the milk was already spilt. He himself said that he's a hypocrite back when he killed Clementine though, so what is your point here? So what? So ainz admits he's a hypocritical piece of shit, but since he admitted it - it makes him a "better" person? And you somehow feel the need to protect the perspective Ainz is seen by the viewers for some reason? Because he's your fav for some reason?/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// P.S you still have to reply to my later post as well. AzorAhai said: All of Nazarick doesn't know how to return to their own world, even if they wanted to - they are stuck there and never intented to go to the New World in the first place. The thing is that in the New World undead by default are beings "full of hatred for humans", something that's important because it explains why everyone assumes why Ainz wants to kill all humans, but that trait doesn't apply to Ainz - he is only indifferent toward them. As for why the whole Worker thing being a part of self-defense? It's all about context. Unlike us, the omniscient audience, Nazarick doesn't know who exactly mind-controlled Shalltear so from their perspective it would be stupid to just hide away and keep to themselves as the initiative gets into the hands of whoever possesses the world-level item. It would be extremely dumb to just sit around and let their enemies build up their forces without interruption in the mean time. Escpacially since that enemy could convince the whole world that Nazarick is just a den of unreasonable mass murderers and that would trouble Nazarick even if that description of them is true to an extent. Essentially Nazarick is worried about what happens if someone starts the whole alliance plan that Jircniv was thinking about in S3 EP9 for real, with the world-item user in lead. By creating a country where human citizen are not treated badly, but perhaps even treated better than they were treated under human nobles, Ainz would be able to gain a lot of legitimacy and might prevent such a scenario, but for that they need the humans to at least give them a chance to rule over them without always being in fear and assuming the worst from the beginning. The Worker's invasion is a part of the plan that's appearently supposed to accomplish that goal. something that i've realized only after a certain person told me that Demiurge planned all that in LN, making me to realize that the slaughterfest had a purpose, but it also reveals that the said slaugterfest was staged, thus what? I should still blame adventurers for invading and justify their deaths? are you serious? It's like justifying U.S invasion of Iraq and deaths of thousands. U.S invaded telling the world Iraq had WMDs (weapons of mass destruction); it turned out Iraq had none, but at least they removed a Tyrant right? Should I justify the slaughterfest that ensued during the invasion as it resulted "for the best" of the nation, which it didn't by the way since till this day Iraq is destabilized and under constant attack by ISIS or various mercenaries.Are you saying that "Means justify the end"? Ainz already said that he cannot think of an alternative to Demi-Urge's plan. Now tell me: What would have been a better plan to defend themselves, while not involving others who may or may not be innocent? If you cannot provide a reasonable alternative to Ainz's current way of ensuring his and his peoples' survival, then how can you critisize them? Again, are they guilty just for defending themselves and ensuring their own survival? Lebensraum again? You know now that it's NOT the only way. Is the only moral solution to just roll over and die or wait until someone, someday invades them? I fail to see the level of threat at least in the Anime. Up to this point there was the loli vampire incident, which resulted in loli vampire losing memory and that's not as troublesome as if someone managed to actually KILL HER, rather than to STUN her in order to escape most likely. The other was with the "evil eye" loli who barely managed to win vs one guardian and all thanks to her CONVENIENT anti-bug spell, without which she'd be dead. Up to this point saying that Nazarick is in grave danger is ridiculous. There is no clue suggesting that there is an opposition strong enough to put a dent in Nazarick's defenses. Something tells me there won't be any of REAL significance in the future as well. |
AzorAhai said: Ainz is a piece of shit and we love it ok? Ainz genocided a race of mole people to 1/10 of their original population just because they didn't submit to him when he asked the once. Ainz plunged the holy kingdom into chaos and came to to 'fix" the problem, causing everyone to love him. We know Ainz is a evil piece of shit but that is what is nice about him. Idk what you are arguing about, the evil is what makes Overlord fucking amazing. From an omniscient perspective Nazarick is not an invader but a stranded entity. Obviously it would make no sense for the natives to think of that and they'd also be unlikely to believe that, even if Ainz explained his situation, so to them Nazarick is an invader the moment they are aware of their existence. So they ARE invaders, but they also did not invade thus...what? They should do as they please? If ainz had explained they would still invade? That's your assumption that justifies the future atrocities, just like Nazis invading soviet union believing Russians would invade them anyway sooner or later. Again what is all this endless comments of yours leading to? For someone who has given 10/10 to anything Overlord related (anime/novel) and even has voice actor of Ainz as favorite, it's not surprising why you'd jump on protecting this "masterpiece". It's also interesting how you just jump in to a reply that i sent to someone else in the first place just to promote your agenda, and then decide to just ignore my post jumping to yet another different person to chant about the greatness of the show or the characters and their actions. Do you feel the need to protect this garbage so desperately? Not everyone is going to like this show, and you should at least try to understand the obvious instead of justifying EVERYTHING!But the cruicial difference between Nazarick and the Workers is agency. The Workers had a choice to invade or to take a different job instead. Arche could have abandoned her parents much earlier instead of always procrastinating her and her sister's leaving the family. Are you F-ing kidding me?! You're actually blaming a kind person for doing kindness and her inability to be stronger?! She was 15yo. Don't you have anything you regret doing in the past? Perhaps she did regret not doing anything sooner? Is it her fault for not being perfect since start? Are you seriously saying she should have chosen a different job so whatever happened the only person to blame is herself?! What is wrong with you? Are you so blind with fanboysm to such extent that you resort on glossing over the most undeniable atrocities of Nazarick and Ainz and portray them as "Justified!" while blaming the VICTIMS instead???? Nazarick however was just thrown into the new world. And when they were checking their situation they were attacked by an unknown attacker who has a super weapon that might be a threat to nazarick. Who knows when they'll attack again? pathetic, simply pathetic. "Nazarick did nothing wrong" "nazarick was only defending" "nazarick had no choice" "nazarick is doing everything for the well-being of the world they unintentionally invaded" You'd be a fine servant of nazarick, loyal, brainwashed fanatic who's unable to distinguish between good and evil when it comes to the deeds of his faithful overlord... That aside, I don't think Ainz is "judging" the motives of the Workers in terms of morality in the first place. He even said that them lying about his friends was for their own survival, but it still makes him angry anyway because the milk was already spilt. He himself said that he's a hypocrite back when he killed Clementine though, so what is your point here? So what? So ainz admits he's a hypocritical piece of shit, but since he admitted it - it makes him a "better" person? And you somehow feel the need to protect the perspective Ainz is seen by the viewers for some reason? Because he's your fav for some reason?/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// P.S you still have to reply to my later post as well. AzorAhai said: hmm, bloodthirsty aliens crash-land on another planet and they (majority) views the natives as subhumans/subspecies, with only few (yet to be discovered in anime) strong enough to posses a threat and stop them from playing Gods. Unless I'm one of these aliens, i don't know why i'd see them as mere survivalists! But it seems like you want to portray them not simply as survivalists but also as near-saints who have to sacrifice some for the "greater good" of the world they "invaded unintentionally". This changes what? He still kills them in thousands. Does this somehow make it better compared to if he wanted to kill everybody with his heart? I'd say his indifference makes him unpredictable thus way more dangerous threat thus people can't be blamed for wanting him gone, despite the fact that when engaging humans in conversation he's not cliched "evil-looking/sounding villain". Why was this necessary to discuss anyway? To justify a murderer? again? It's like when in our world serial killers get lighter penalties because they're insane or whatever. Who cares? Murder is murder - "to the eclectic chair with you!" Are you seriously saying all this to justify how adventurers were tricked and baited in a slaughterhouse? Can't you think of any alternative ways about how to make your Nation known to the world other than bating another country into sending their people into your own? This reminds me of one scene from certain movie where half the population is massacred and the rest is left alone. There was a guy there chanting how this is mercy and the sacrifices are made for the well-being of the half that remains. This really just makes you sound like a fanatic who stand there looking at the smoldering ruins of a civilization, chanting how all this was done for people to live happily ever after. something that i've realized only after a certain person told me that Demiurge planned all that in LN, making me to realize that the slaughterfest had a purpose, but it also reveals that the said slaugterfest was staged, thus what? I should still blame adventurers for invading and justify their deaths? are you serious? It's like justifying U.S invasion of Iraq and deaths of thousands. U.S invaded telling the world Iraq had WMDs (weapons of mass destruction); it turned out Iraq had none, but at least they removed a Tyrant right? Should I justify the slaughterfest that ensued during the invasion as it resulted "for the best" of the nation, which it didn't by the way since till this day Iraq is destabilized and under constant attack by ISIS or various mercenaries. Are you saying that "Means justify the end"? lol, ever heard of Lebensraum? ("'Lebensraum' Between 1921 and 1925 Adolf Hitler developed the belief that Germany required Lebensraum ('living space') in order to survive). Saying that there wasn't an alternative when Nazarick is composed of God level creatures is beyond ridiculous. Lebensraum again? You know now that it's NOT the only way. I fail to see the level of threat at least in the Anime. Up to this point there was the loli vampire incident, which resulted in loli vampire losing memory and that's not as troublesome as if someone managed to actually KILL HER, rather than to STUN her in order to escape most likely. The other was with the "evil eye" loli who barely managed to win vs one guardian and all thanks to her CONVENIENT anti-bug spell, without which she'd be dead. Up to this point saying that Nazarick is in grave danger is ridiculous. There is no clue suggesting that there is an opposition strong enough to put a dent in Nazarick's defenses. Something tells me there won't be any of REAL significance in the future as well. |
Ainz is a piece of shit and we love it ok? Ainz genocided a race of mole people to 1/10 of their original population just because they didn't submit to him when he asked the once. Ainz plunged the holy kingdom into chaos and came to to 'fix" the problem, causing everyone to love him. We know Ainz is a evil piece of shit but that is what is nice about him. Idk what you are arguing about, the evil is what makes Overlord fucking amazing. I'm fine with people loving someTHING like Ainz ok? I'm not a "villain hater". This thread's purpose was to find out why can one find joy seeing senseless slaughter, torture and abuse - simply because it was done by the hand of their favorite character? Do they watch the show for abuse, torture and injustice? There are websites dedicated to those things, do you really want an anime version of this? really? I couldn't understand why would someone cheer for an OP villain and his OP soldiers doing atrocities with 0 opposition; i mean come on? There is basically no challenge! IT's like playing a strategy game with god mode cheats on; it's boring as hell! I can't understand how watching weaklings getting bashed over and over (while weaklings are also purposely given background for us to feel some empathy towards them) is anything but sadists wet dream?! There are better developed evil characters out there who aren't this plain boring and they don't need a fan base protecting their image of "is he/she a trash villain or a worthy villain?"Ainz as a character was confusing to A LOT of people since he wasn't always EVIL and i'm already tired writing why i think so over and over again. The show wasn't always this stupidly simple, like watching forces of evil doing evil. I thought there was more than that, and i'm not the only one who felt cheated. It's like entering a perfectly fine, popular and promising night club with seemingly normal couples, only to later find yourself surrounded by gay/transsexual couples who then yell out loud "why did you even enter if you're not gay!" The thing is I didn't expect people to straightway bash the victims in order to protect their evil idol. Justifying the evil and going as far as to blame their victims is disgusting and wrong; only shows how twisted minded people actually are. You can have a villain that goes on killing children and still love them as a character for their struggle, accomplishments and so on (more or less), but this thread turned into a court session where Ainz and his gang are portrayed as INNOCENT self preserving survivalists, while everyone else on the other side is but a "justified prey'' or guilty for EXISTING and guilty for making perfectly fine life choices like becoming an adventurer for example! To protect the said villain saying "he had no choice" or "it's the kids fault" is ridiculous and only shows how fanatical, narrow-minded and cruel the audience can be. You can easily make a religion out of this and I can already see the rows of prophets lining up... Like the villain as much as you want, but evil is evil and there is no justifying it. |
Sigmar-UnberogenSep 27, 2018 6:13 AM
| A AzorAhai said: Indeed, a religion was made for Ainz in the latest volume of the Light Novels. Ainz didn't even cause the religion to be set up by himself. The people of the holy kingdom in their despair from being attacked by Demiurge were so happy to be "freed" by Ainz that they started worshipping him. Ainz is a piece of shit and we love it ok? Ainz genocided a race of mole people to 1/10 of their original population just because they didn't submit to him when he asked the once. Ainz plunged the holy kingdom into chaos and came to to 'fix" the problem, causing everyone to love him. We know Ainz is a evil piece of shit but that is what is nice about him. Idk what you are arguing about, the evil is what makes Overlord fucking amazing. I'm fine with people loving someTHING like Ainz ok? I'm not a "villain hater". This thread's purpose was to find out why can one find joy seeing senseless slaughter, torture and abuse - simply because it was done by the hand of their favorite character? Do they watch the show for abuse, torture and injustice? There are websites dedicated to those things, do you really want an anime version of this? really? I couldn't understand why would someone cheer for an OP villain and his OP soldiers doing atrocities with 0 opposition; i mean come on? There is basically no challenge! IT's like playing a strategy game with god mode cheats on; it's boring as hell! I can't understand how watching weaklings getting bashed over and over (while weaklings are also purposely given background for us to feel some empathy towards them) is anything but sadists wet dream?! There are better developed evil characters out there who aren't this plain boring and they don't need a fan base protecting their image of "is he/she a trash villain or a worthy villain?"Ainz as a character was confusing to A LOT of people since he wasn't always EVIL and i'm already tired writing why i think so over and over again. The show wasn't always this stupidly simple, like watching forces of evil doing evil. I thought there was more than that, and i'm not the only one who felt cheated. It's like entering a perfectly fine, popular and promising night club with seemingly normal couples, only to later find yourself surrounded by gay/transsexual couples who then yell out loud "why did you even enter if you're not gay!" The thing is I didn't expect people to straightway bash the victims in order to protect their evil idol. Justifying the evil and going as far as to blame their victims is disgusting and wrong; only shows how twisted minded people actually are. You can have a villain that goes on killing children and still love them as a character for their struggle, accomplishments and so on (more or less), but this thread turned into a court session where Ainz and his gang are portrayed as INNOCENT self preserving survivalists, while everyone else on the other side is but a "justified prey'' or guilty for EXISTING and guilty for making perfectly fine life choices like becoming an adventurer for example! To protect the said villain saying "he had no choice" or "it's the kids fault" is ridiculous and only shows how fanatical, narrow-minded and cruel the audience can be. You can easily make a religion out of this and I can already see the rows of prophets lining up... Like the villain as much as you want, but evil is evil and there is no justifying it. |
Grey-Zone said: I accept your concession. Since you can't provide a scenario of how a "better" person would have acted in Ainz's scenario without being outright stupid or suicidal, I take it as either you simply deciding to side with the Natives (nothing wrong about that), or perhaps that you are a troll, considering your entire post is a deflection of my argument, suddenly bringing in completely unrelated stuff. The 2ch stuff is wrong because there is a scene that briefly shows Ainz in the real world in a normal apartment where he sits with his gear on. Then there's also the blu-ray special short-story novel Overlord: Prologue, which shows that his world is a dystopian society and that he really is a salaryman. . Baited, so EZ. You're the one that mentioned Satoru Suzuki's backstory, so here I go. - Overlord is a GARBAGE shameless villain sue power fantasy, - Overlord's worldbuilding is just an exposition dump TRASH, designed as an excuse for Ainz to do whatever he wants. - the people that loves this kind of work are the one that likes to be told how to feel, and how to think - Ainz is an antisocial sociopathic genocidal moron - Edgelords self insert to Ainz. So thank you for bringing it up. Satoru Suzuki's Backstory is just a GARBAGE tier info dump here it is: As to why it's garbage This shitty author tried to use Orwellian and Huxleyan dystopian setting AT THE SAME F*KING TIME The author find excuse for Ainz moron level intelligence and him being an antisocial mass murderer by TELLING the audience: "He came from dystopic future where people are kept dumb guys, he was oppressed all his life, totaly not his fault" At the same time, He's an MMO nerd, "but only because the rich peoplez destroyed the environment guys, outside his work hour he was forced to stay shut in his tiny apartment to play game" What consistency, the people are robbed of their intelligence, but the world is a high tech cyberpunk, Nanomachine? VRMMO? Who did all the programming, computer security, server maintenance or pretty much everything that requires knowledge. quick infographic for those that's slow on the uptake So much for your "world building". And it's not just this. Overlord is littered with exposition dump that's really was just a petty excuses after excuses. Stop scamming people by saying the LN was better or even a masterpiece, it was NOT. The anime, manga, and LN are GARBAGE. With the exception for so-bin's and fugin's art |
| ^I couldn't care less about your personal preferences about world building and dystopian society fiction, escpacially if your arguments only rely on hyperboles. You still didn't answer my question: "How could Ainz have done things differently without being stupid or suicidal or an unredeemable jerk?" |
Grey-ZoneSep 27, 2018 9:42 AM
|
00784212 said: Grey-Zone said: ^I couldn't care less about your personal preferences about world building and dystopian society fiction, escpacially if your arguments only rely on hyperboles. That's not a preference, that was a statement. Satoru Suzuki's Backstory is just a GARBAGE tier info dump and I gave my arguments. Whats your argument then? Don't just bark. Grey-Zone said: You still didn't answer my question: "How could Ainz have done things differently without being stupid or suicidal or an unredeemable jerk?" EZ PZ. Doppelgangers. (Ainz have Narberal, Pandora, and *spoiler* from LN, a legion of them) Narberal can even fool the strongest adamantite ranked adventurer Blue Rose, and possibly all inhabitants ofl NW. If Ainz wasn't sure, he can simply do an experiment that is harmless, and low profile. He can even create "fake player" to takes the heat off him just in case "other player" does exist. Ainz can simply use those doppelgangers to play the most elaborate Xanatos Gambit without a single bloodshed. Especially true after LN vol.13. The weakest doppelganger can be used to fool an entire kingdom. And Ainz have an entire legion of these creatures. But he just had to use them for genocide instead, because he's an unrepentant sociopathic genocidal moron. Back at you, "Ainz have no other choice but be genocidal" is just another petty excuse. It's still a class system so even if 95% are uneducated, there would still be 5% who are very highly educated, more than enough to form a dev team and to have scientists. Escpacially in a sci-fi world over 100 years later. Everything else was just your opinion on whether two dystopian societies cannot mix. They don't exist, neither does a mixed one, there are no references to compare to whatsoever. As for doppelgangers? It would lose out the intial goal of "spreading the legend of Ainz Ooal Gown" to potentially find Ainz's guildmates. And even with puppet governments they'd still have to secretive because otherwise there would be no point, which again, makes the spreading of the name impossible. Also other than the few cases as Narberal and Pandora, most Doppelgangers are much weaker and could be targeted with brainwashing, unlike with an openly existing Sorcerer Kingdom where multiple stronger individuals can keep together and are almost impossible to be ambushed. This plan has many drawbacks. Ainz would still have to murderer potentially innocent leader-figures to replace them with Doppelgangers. It would also be difficult to change the peoples' minds about monsters because they'd have no contact with them. |
|
Also, what "threat", 13 volume and that moron still uses that "brainwashed shalltear" as a reason to be homicidal, what an irredeemable jerk. lol so i was right predicting no opposition would ever rise to threaten Ainz; and that ainz and his gang would continue to just slaughter whoever they please. So basically there are 13 volumes of "train without brakes smashing through the endless herd of sheep stranded on the railways" guess if that was a show it would be entertaining and somehow worth 10/10? Deadpool has more plot it seems. Also guess who's not going to read the LN? :)P.S That fanboy is yet to respond to my own reply. I suppose he "chickened out" on that one or something... |
00784212 said: ThatLamp said: @00784212 Please, I mean no offence with this, but here is a question. Why did you continue reading it if you disliked it so much? Personaly, if I dont like the book I just finish it and move on... I liked it, now I like hating it. And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it |
And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it Dude, the entire thread is like full of "why people hate this show" or episode 8 in general. Feel free to browse. I personally began hating the anime (didn't read LN) because MC changed from "I'm only playing as an evil guy, but i'll try not to be actually evil" to "I'm evil, plain and simple". Also, the show provides no opposition to MC and his team who are insanely OP, thus making it incredibly boring, turning a promising plot into a garbage show where a super-soldier in a modern tank with infinite ammo and fuel steamrolls american Indians armed with bows and arrows! This kind of show might be interesting at the beginning, but as the guy states, there are freaking 13 volumes written and the tank hasn't encountered a single landmine or a "guy with an RPG", it just keeps on rolling just like that *snaps fingers*. |
ThatLamp said: And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it Allright you're genuinely baffled. Sorry for the previous scoffs. What this series promised was this What we got is this Now, am I entitled for not getting what's promised? I even spend money on this shit. |
AzorAhai said: And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it Dude, the entire thread is like full of "why people hate this show" or episode 8 in general. Feel free to browse. I personally began hating the anime (didn't read LN) because MC changed from "I'm only playing as an evil guy, but i'll try not to be actually evil" to "I'm evil, plain and simple". Also, the show provides no opposition to MC and his team who are insanely OP, thus making it incredibly boring, turning a promising plot into a garbage show where a super-soldier in a modern tank with infinite ammo and fuel steamrolls american Indians armed with bows and arrows! This kind of show might be interesting at the beginning, but as the guy states, there are freaking 13 volumes written and the tank hasn't encountered a single landmine or a "guy with an RPG", it just keeps on rolling just like that *snaps fingers*. I know, after all this was my first thread. I was asking specifically to him because reading a novel and watching a show are compleatly diferent things. While a 13 episode season may take around 6 hours to see through a novel may take araund 3 to 4 hours to finish, lets say that every book has around 300 pages, those are 3900 pages to read throught. I too have changed opinion on books I liked before, and curiosity got the better of me, and so I asked. |
00784212 said: ThatLamp said: And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it Allright you're genuinely baffled. Sorry for the previous scoffs. What this series promised was this What we got is this Now, am I entitled for not getting what's promised? I even spend money on this shit. Thanks for answering, sorry if it originaly came out wrong, after all the overlord comunity in MAL is very erratic as I had said before in this treath. |
AzorAhai said: That's the nice thing about Overlord, its a power fantasy. Its not boring if the people you squish are different Everytime. Ainz has squished people with religion, manipulation and raw power so far. I can't wait to see what will happen next. The guy is wrong in that there are no people who pose a threat to Nazarick though. There is the PDL and DDDL. The DDDL posses 2 world items that it got from killing players 300 years ago. As we know only the top players had world items, we can be sure that DDDL is pretty powerful. The PDL is also able to defeat the guardians. Here is an excerpt,http://overlordvolume10.blogspot.com/2017/09/bad-end-battle.html?m=1 He must have skimmed through the light novels to have missed so many details.And to further the question, why do you now hate it? I personally like the novels, and I would like to see another point of view of why they dislike it Dude, the entire thread is like full of "why people hate this show" or episode 8 in general. Feel free to browse. I personally began hating the anime (didn't read LN) because MC changed from "I'm only playing as an evil guy, but i'll try not to be actually evil" to "I'm evil, plain and simple". Also, the show provides no opposition to MC and his team who are insanely OP, thus making it incredibly boring, turning a promising plot into a garbage show where a super-soldier in a modern tank with infinite ammo and fuel steamrolls american Indians armed with bows and arrows! This kind of show might be interesting at the beginning, but as the guy states, there are freaking 13 volumes written and the tank hasn't encountered a single landmine or a "guy with an RPG", it just keeps on rolling just like that *snaps fingers*. |
Tobestik said: AzorAhai said: That's the nice thing about Overlord, its a power fantasy. Its not boring if the people you squish are different Everytime. Ainz has squished people with religion, manipulation and raw power so far. I can't wait to see what will happen next. The guy is wrong in that there are no people who pose a threat to Nazarick though. There is the PDL and DDDL. The DDDL posses 2 world items that it got from killing players 300 years ago. As we know only the top players had world items, we can be sure that DDDL is pretty powerful. The PDL is also able to defeat the guardians. Here is an excerpt,http://overlordvolume10.blogspot.com/2017/09/bad-end-battle.html?m=1 He must have skimmed through the light novels to have missed so many details.Dude, the entire thread is like full of "why people hate this show" or episode 8 in general. Feel free to browse. I personally began hating the anime (didn't read LN) because MC changed from "I'm only playing as an evil guy, but i'll try not to be actually evil" to "I'm evil, plain and simple". Also, the show provides no opposition to MC and his team who are insanely OP, thus making it incredibly boring, turning a promising plot into a garbage show where a super-soldier in a modern tank with infinite ammo and fuel steamrolls american Indians armed with bows and arrows! This kind of show might be interesting at the beginning, but as the guy states, there are freaking 13 volumes written and the tank hasn't encountered a single landmine or a "guy with an RPG", it just keeps on rolling just like that *snaps fingers*. You do realize that's not really canon right? Same as the evileye story where she meets Ainz |
Darklight0303 said: Its not canon, but its true nonetheless. It just hasnt happened yet and may never happen but this proves my point about there being threats to Nazarick.Tobestik said: That's the nice thing about Overlord, its a power fantasy. Its not boring if the people you squish are different Everytime. Ainz has squished people with religion, manipulation and raw power so far. I can't wait to see what will happen next. The guy is wrong in that there are no people who pose a threat to Nazarick though. There is the PDL and DDDL. The DDDL posses 2 world items that it got from killing players 300 years ago. As we know only the top players had world items, we can be sure that DDDL is pretty powerful. The PDL is also able to defeat the guardians. Here is an excerpt,http://overlordvolume10.blogspot.com/2017/09/bad-end-battle.html?m=1 He must have skimmed through the light novels to have missed so many details. You do realize that's not really canon right? Same as the evileye story where she meets Ainz |
Tobestik said: Darklight0303 said: Its not canon, but its true nonetheless. It just hasnt happened yet and may never happen but this proves my point about there being threats to Nazarick.You do realize that's not really canon right? Same as the evileye story where she meets Ainz Except Shaltear IS growing as we saw during her management of the Quagoa. It's not the same Shaltear. IT won't happen. and no it doesn't. Hell the Darkness Dragon lord's power being darkness might not even work on Ainz/Undead and World Items are WORTHLESS when you have world items of your own to negate their effects on you. |
Darklight0303 said: Did you know the orb inside Ainz is a world item that is effective against dragons? The world item that DDDL has is not a regular world item, it is one use, who knows how broken it may be? We know that on of them "five elements overcoming" DID affect other world items holders. You can tell that the world item Ainz possesses is just waiting to be used against a dragonlord. I was trying to say that there are people that may pose a threat to Nazarick.Tobestik said: Its not canon, but its true nonetheless. It just hasnt happened yet and may never happen but this proves my point about there being threats to Nazarick. Except Shaltear IS growing as we saw during her management of the Quagoa. It's not the same Shaltear. IT won't happen. and no it doesn't. Hell the Darkness Dragon lord's power being darkness might not even work on Ainz/Undead and World Items are WORTHLESS when you have world items of your own to negate their effects on you. |
Tobestik said: Darklight0303 said: Did you know the orb inside Ainz is a world item that is effective against dragons? The world item that DDDL has is not a regular world item, it is one use, who knows how broken it may be? We know that on of them "five elements overcoming" DID affect other world items holders. You can tell that the world item Ainz possesses is just waiting to be used against a dragonlord. I was trying to say that there are people that may pose a threat to Nazarick.Except Shaltear IS growing as we saw during her management of the Quagoa. It's not the same Shaltear. IT won't happen. and no it doesn't. Hell the Darkness Dragon lord's power being darkness might not even work on Ainz/Undead and World Items are WORTHLESS when you have world items of your own to negate their effects on you. But that is from the Web Novel, that at this point is not canon |
| [quote=ThatLamp message=55831801] Tobestik said: Darklight0303 said: Did you know the orb inside Ainz is a world item that is effective against dragons? The world item that DDDL has is not a regular world item, it is one use, who knows how broken it may be? We know that on of them "five elements overcoming" DID affect other world items holders. You can tell that the world item Ainz possesses is just waiting to be used against a dragonlord. I was trying to say that there are people that may pose a threat to Nazarick.Except Shaltear IS growing as we saw during her management of the Quagoa. It's not the same Shaltear. IT won't happen. and no it doesn't. Hell the Darkness Dragon lord's power being darkness might not even work on Ainz/Undead and World Items are WORTHLESS when you have world items of your own to negate their effects on you. Actually my bad, its all from the light novel. "The highest-ranked Dragons were some of the strongest opponents in YGGDRASIL. It was very dangerous to move separately from the Guardians while they did not know the enemy’s strength. However, Ainz possessed a World-Class Item. It possessed many powers, and one of them was very effective against Dragons. Therefore, even in the worst-case scenario, he ought to be able to escape it. - Volume 11 Chapter 5. Ainz world item that is effective isnt from the web novel. DDDL isnt from the light novel as well. |
| [quote=Tobestik message=55831809] ThatLamp said: Tobestik said: Did you know the orb inside Ainz is a world item that is effective against dragons? The world item that DDDL has is not a regular world item, it is one use, who knows how broken it may be? We know that on of them "five elements overcoming" DID affect other world items holders. You can tell that the world item Ainz possesses is just waiting to be used against a dragonlord. I was trying to say that there are people that may pose a threat to Nazarick. Actually my bad, its all from the light novel. "The highest-ranked Dragons were some of the strongest opponents in YGGDRASIL. It was very dangerous to move separately from the Guardians while they did not know the enemy’s strength. However, Ainz possessed a World-Class Item. It possessed many powers, and one of them was very effective against Dragons. Therefore, even in the worst-case scenario, he ought to be able to escape it. - Volume 11 Chapter 5. Ainz world item that is effective isnt from the web novel. DDDL isnt from the light novel as well. That is my bad, I didnt remeber that, but, that isnt what I meant. While the item exist it is never said that its Ainz orb; while the wiki is not what I would call the most aqurate place, it dose cite two items with the same caracteristic, World-Savior and Ainz orb. I was just sayng that Ainz orb is the one non-canon, but after all, Maruyama will decide what to do with it. |
Grey-Zone said: ^I couldn't care less about your personal preferences about world building and dystopian society fiction, escpacially if your arguments only rely on hyperboles. You still didn't answer my question: "How could Ainz have done things differently without being stupid or suicidal or an unredeemable jerk?" By having actual character development past season 1. While he indeed didn't answer your question... As poor as their arguments are compared to yours, so poor are yours compared to mine. I don't understand why you try to take the high ground on this discussion when you've still yet to provide good arguments yourself. I've already explained the reasons why Aintz is a bad character a few times now. It's not because of his base design. Its neither because of his ''salaryman'' background, nor ''evil lich'' persona. It's because the character development for him as a person is terrible. There's no logical or otherwise reasonable transitioning between ''salaryman'' or ''evil lich''. On top of that his behaviour as both personas doesn't make sense. Both personas are too overblown for seemingly no reason. The salaryman Aintz is too emotional without any buildup. Why would he get enraged when he projects onto the adventurer, fooling himself in thinking he's somehow insulting his friends? Why would he fool himself like that to begin with? There's no cause, no buildup. It just happens out of the blue. Likewise evil lich Aintz does ''evil things'' without any reason or cause, seemingly just to be evil. There's no plan. No reason to explain ''that's just how I am'' and there's nothing smart or interesting about it either. Unfortunately as Aintzs is the head honcho of Yggdrassil group, that also automatically applies all that failure in characterisation on all of them. The only one that gets away is Demiurge, since in his role and personality he's not deferring to Aintz but just his own thing. Hence why ironically the most sadistic evil character in the series is the only one on Aintz side with actual good characterisation past season 1. Making him the only good character on that side after character development turns into character regression If you don't realise how this completely de-bases the argument that ''we dont like evil characters'' I'm not sure what to say anymore. I can go on about all the other arguments I've already given, but if you don't understand the ones explained clearly first, then I dont see the point. |
| “Ha ha, the synergy between my left and right hand made them feel scared.” Ye Xiu said. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Overlord III Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Aug 28, 2018 |
593 |
by callmethebigG
»»
Dec 21, 10:55 PM |
|
Poll: » Overlord III Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Aug 7, 2018 |
99 |
by callmethebigG
»»
Dec 21, 10:05 PM |
|
Poll: » Overlord III Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 2, 2018 |
270 |
by Stopkontak
»»
Dec 15, 1:37 AM |
|
Poll: » Overlord III Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Sep 4, 2018 |
167 |
by Matheus050
»»
Nov 8, 2:47 PM |
|
Poll: » Overlord III Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Aug 21, 2018 |
189 |
by Matheus050
»»
Nov 3, 3:11 AM |