Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (light novel)
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| I don't think I can wait a week so I'm going to speed through the rest of the LN now. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: Or you can just DL the fanlations. Already have. I was talking on behalf of Rokka's general fanbase. Plus, professional translation >> fan translation, even if Rokka's fanlation is pretty good anyway. |
Matheine said: I just loled so hard when Adlet just kick Nashetania in the face HA thought I was the only one |
| Interesting even if a bit convulted scheme but it makes sense. Either way time to go report the pretend-speculator poster who "speculated" about the Private who told about b arrier being in league with the seventh. Fucking spoilers everywhere veiled as pretend-speculations. This is why I avoid MAL episode threads as much as I can. Anyway great and tense episode, with only one downside - they keep heavy-handedly trying to show Fremy caring for Adlet, etc and it just brings out of the overall great tension and atmosphere of the episode. Really wish the "romance"(if you can call it that) aspect was not there because of how forced, fake and out of nowhere it feels - really takes us out of the tense and thrilling mystery/detective the show's narrative is weaving. Also out of entire cast, Fremy seems to be most one-dimensional rightnow with her only traits being her "i trust nobody" persona and her "I like adlet" nonsense. I am intrigued by all the other braves except her so far so I hope the narrative will surprise me and she has more going for her than that. Anyway can't wait for final episode. I wonder who seventh is. |
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CookingPriest said: Interesting even if a bit convulted scheme but it makes sense. Either way time to go report the pretend-speculator poster who "speculated" about the Private who told about b arrier being in league with the seventh. Fucking spoilers everywhere veiled as pretend-speculations. This is why I avoid MAL episode threads as much as I can. Anyway great and tense episode, with only one downside - they keep heavy-handedly trying to show Fremy caring for Adlet, etc and it just brings out of the overall great tension and atmosphere of the episode. Really wish the "romance"(if you can call it that) aspect was not there because of how forced, fake and out of nowhere it feels - really takes us out of the tense and thrilling mystery/detective the show's narrative is weaving. Anyway can't wait for final episode. I wonder who seventh is. I didn't think it felt heavy-handed at all ... |
| Just me or is this mystery breaking a bit too many of Van Dine's 20 Rules? I don't really find it satisfactory |
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Frrrosty said: black1blade said: Or you can just DL the fanlations. Already have. I was talking on behalf of Rokka's general fanbase. Plus, professional translation >> fan translation, even if Rokka's fanlation is pretty good anyway. Not always tbh. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Best girl Fremy. And uhh... feels like Adlet pulled that straight out of his ass but at this point I'm sick of Maura bullheadedly insisting he's the 7th. Next week last episode?! |
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Pknoctis said: Best girl Fremy. And uhh... feels like Adlet pulled that straight out of his ass but at this point I'm sick of Maura bullheadedly insisting he's the 7th. Next week last episode?! It's just because the clues have been spread out through a few months. Also it's just a bit of lateral thinking on Adlet's part which you would expect if he was the strongest in the world. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| A cliffhanger was inevitable. But still...damn you cliffhanger!! I thoroughly enjoyed Adlet kicking Nashetania in the face, after letting his own hands be stabbed to stop the finishing strike, like boss--on top of breaking her main weapon. Take that, crazy ass bitch! Eat dirt from the dirty boot! I loved it when Fremy is all like "I'll be taking my gun back, thank you very much" silently from Mora, when Mora's lies were exposed. Now everything she says from now on won't be able to hold any weight, and all her decisions can be vetoed as they can be invalidated by her rash untrusting nature. Her ability to lead the 6 braves will be called into question, as she is seen unfit for the role. |
Estoy_GordoSep 12, 2015 2:12 PM
HaXXspetten said: Just me or is this mystery breaking a bit too many of Van Dine's 20 Rules? I don't really find it satisfactory Yeah I felt it relied too much on things the viewer had no way of knowing(fake barriers, seventh having an acomplice, half the rules we knew being fake, etc). I mean it all fits together nicely and all but If there's one thing disappointing about this mystery it is the fact that there's no way a viewer could have put it all together on their own. If I were to do this story I would have made Adlet and everyone else a lot more ambiguous and Adlet's rants and "theories" a lot more crazy and persecution-complex-like so the whole psychological warfare aspect works better. Right now the whole mystery aspect is shaky - after all this show is at its best when you DO NOT know who to trust(including MC himself). And it is at its lowest when "teamwork and trust", forced romance and "Mc explaining convulted theories" happens. Really leaves a kind of unpolished jewel impression so far. |
AhenshihaelSep 12, 2015 2:13 PM
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| How come Chamot was ok with leaving the temple with Hans? Anyways, I really liked the explanations of why the fog appeared, it was pretty clever. Other than that, though, this episode was the ugliest by far. The running animation for Adlet during the fight was ridiculously bad and most of the scenes in the second half looked like I drew them. Hint, I can't draw for shit. So yeah, a bit disappointing Passione seems to be running out of budget now, hopefully next episode looks better. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
CookingPriest said: Yeah exactly. You should absolutely be able to figure out the whole truth yourself before it is revealed in the story or it's not a good mystery. Now I'm not saying that it was impossible to do so in this case but really Adlet's "solution" here felt way too far-fetched. You should at least be given clear clues to work with. It's like being given a puzzle where someone has hidden half the pieces. Of course there's no fun in trying to lay that :sHaXXspetten said: Just me or is this mystery breaking a bit too many of Van Dine's 20 Rules? I don't really find it satisfactory Yeah I felt it relied too much on things the viewer had no way of knowing(fake barriers, seventh having an acomplice, half the rules we knew being fake, etc). I mean it all fits together nicely and all but If there's one thing disappointing about this mystery it is the fact that there's no way a viewer could have put it all together on their own. If I were to do this story I would have made Adlet and everyone else a lot more ambiguous and Adlet's rants and "theories" a lot more crazy and persecution-complex-like so the whole psychological warfare aspect works better. Also the fact that he more or less found Riura's body by a lucky guess is kind of unacceptable. Luck should never be a factor in a mystery |
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| Rokka no Yuusha just keeps getting better with its timing o/ makes me feel like all my past theories were worthless 5/5 |
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HaXXspetten said: CookingPriest said: Yeah exactly. You should absolutely be able to figure out the whole truth yourself before it is revealed in the story or it's not a good mystery. Now I'm not saying that it was impossible to do so in this case but really Adlet's "solution" here felt way too far-fetched. You should at least be given clear clues to work with. It's like being given a puzzle where someone has hidden half the pieces. Of course there's no fun in trying to lay that :sYeah I felt it relied too much on things the viewer had no way of knowing(fake barriers, seventh having an acomplice, half the rules we knew being fake, etc). I mean it all fits together nicely and all but If there's one thing disappointing about this mystery it is the fact that there's no way a viewer could have put it all together on their own. If I were to do this story I would have made Adlet and everyone else a lot more ambiguous and Adlet's rants and "theories" a lot more crazy and persecution-complex-like so the whole psychological warfare aspect works better. Also the fact that he more or less found Riura's body by a lucky guess is kind of unacceptable. Luck should never be a factor in a mystery This kind of feels as if narrative gave us a jigsaw puzzle and as we try to figure out how it fits together, suddenly replaced it with a game of solitaire without any explanation or reason. |
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geralt said: How come Chamot was ok with leaving the temple with Hans? Anyways, I really liked the explanations of why the fog appeared, it was pretty clever. Other than that, though, this episode was the ugliest by far. The running animation for Adlet during the fight was ridiculously bad and most of the scenes in the second half looked like I drew them. Hint, I can't draw for shit. So yeah, a bit disappointing Passione seems to be running out of budget now, hopefully next episode looks better. Probably scheduling mostly. I agree that it would have been pretty impossible to work it out through standard logical thinking. They did mention Riura a lot too. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| It's not that the explanation was BS it's just that people weren't paying attention to the right details XD. (well I wasn't either). |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: It's not that the explanation was BS it's just that people weren't paying attention to the right details XD. (well I wasn't either). I too am perplexed that Haxx and Fai are complaining about not being able to figure out the jiggsaw puzzle while simultaneously ignoring two pieces of it. |
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black1blade said: It's not that the explanation was BS it's just that people weren't paying attention to the right details XD. (well I wasn't either). Yeah sorry no. I call BS. There's absolutely no way to figure out this mystery before the reveal because the "reveal" literally throws away every single rule the mystery has set out of the window to explain itself. Its the same as if we had a locked room murder mystery with with suspects in a confined room and then the narrative suddenly decided to tell us that the murder was done by an alien elephant who teleported into the room and killed the victim with his mind. |
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| I didn't expect a scientific explanation at all personally. I also didn't really pay the show much attention in the first few episodes. I was never going to work it out XD but I'm sure someone could have and probably has. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
HighKing77 said: geralt said: How come Chamot was ok with leaving the temple with Hans? She probably got bored and wanted to fight. She seems like a violent person as well since she was willing to torture Fremy whilst in the temple, so it probably wouldn't be out of the question to say she wanted a piece of the action. That would make sense if last episode Maura didn't threaten her to make sure to watch Hans and to keep him from leaving. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
black1blade said: It's more that those details shouldn't even be part of the playing field. The truth should be something staring you in the face, but only if you're smart enough to see it. This felt way too off-topicIt's not that the explanation was BS it's just that people weren't paying attention to the right details XD. (well I wasn't either). To make an example, if you've played Super Danganronpa 2; the second-to-last trial of that game has the most ridiculous far-fetched solution that is next to impossible to ever figure out beforehand. But that was only because of how insanely complex it was; the truth was still absolutely right in front of you the entire time provided that you were crazy enough to even consider something so unexpected. That was absolutely brilliantly written. But what Rokka is doing is kind of the opposite; this solution is based on facts that really shouldn't have anything to do with the mystery to begin with. Like the geographical location and the weather aspects, the presense of an accomplice, the fact that the whole premise was partially a lie etcetera I mean none of that are actually clues to the viewer and should have no business being part of a proper detective story. It's more like the show is presenting the solution for you gradually over time instead of letting the viewers try to figure the truth out for themselves, which I guess is fine but not really what I was hoping for from a show of this genre |
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| I'm so freaking hyped for the last episode. That ending left me in so much suspense. |
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skudoops said: CookingPriest said: Yeah I felt it relied too much on things the viewer had no way of knowing(fake barriers, seventh having an acomplice, half the rules we knew being fake, etc). I mean it all fits together nicely and all but If there's one thing disappointing about this mystery it is the fact that there's no way a viewer could have put it all together on their own. You know I mentioned this before in a prior discussion and I am not surprised to see people saying it now. Ever since flamie had to explain barriers to us in that one episode I felt a bit cheated. It doesn't allow viewer participation when done like that because they introduce curve balls that the viewer has no knowledge of like you mentioned or like the sun goddess. Yeah that moment was one of first major "wait a second shouldn't WE THE VIEWER be able to figure that out without you bringing in random new facts out of your ass?" kind of moment for me with this show. It genuinely feels as if author wrote himself/herself into a corner with the mystery and had to think up random new things to wrap it up. |
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CookingPriest said: HaXXspetten said: Yeah exactly. You should absolutely be able to figure out the whole truth yourself before it is revealed in the story or it's not a good mystery. Now I'm not saying that it was impossible to do so in this case but really Adlet's "solution" here felt way too far-fetched. You should at least be given clear clues to work with. It's like being given a puzzle where someone has hidden half the pieces. Of course there's no fun in trying to lay that :s Also the fact that he more or less found Riura's body by a lucky guess is kind of unacceptable. Luck should never be a factor in a mystery This kind of feels as if narrative gave us a jigsaw puzzle and as we try to figure out how it fits together, suddenly replaced it with a game of solitaire without any explanation or reason. First things first, using Knox's Ten Commandments, is most certainly not a great criteria to use for detective fiction. Rokka no Yuusha belongs in the hybrid category of mystery shows that work very well without using these guidelines, and yes they are guidelines for writers and not some template marking scheme. Nevertheless, the show still keeps the core rules listed by Knox like Adlet being the main detective and having a sort of sidekick (Hans/Fremy) etc, and only disobeys some minor ones. The reason why it might seem that it's far-fetched is because there is a change in focus from episode 1-4 to episode 5-11 from an adventure story with a goal to a detective story. Now, what do you think about the fact that the decisive hints were littered during the adventure part? You either were caught off guard, or you could care less about the heavy dialogue in that stage. Edit: I agree that the show is a little bit weak on logic, but that's because we are looking through the MC's lens, and we all know Adlet isn't really a logical person anyway. Rokka shines in its character case studies, not robotic syllogisms. |
FrrrostySep 12, 2015 2:36 PM
CookingPriest said: There where like 3 or so saints who weren't the group that where constantly mentioned. Maura literally dismisses all of them as having the power to raise the fog apart from riura. I don't think the fact that the captain guy's explanation was a set up was that big of a stretch. Also there is the thing about Adlet saying it was hot although it would have been very hard to know that was a clue. That is why you would have had to consider a lot of stuff. Not saying anyone is stupid for not working out but the elements to make it make sense where there.black1blade said: It's not that the explanation was BS it's just that people weren't paying attention to the right details XD. (well I wasn't either). Yeah sorry no. I call BS. There's absolutely no way to figure out this mystery before the reveal because the "reveal" literally throws away every single rule the mystery has set out of the window to explain itself. Its the same as if we had a locked room murder mystery with with suspects in a confined room and then the narrative suddenly decided to tell us that the murder was done by an alien elephant who teleported into the room and killed the victim with his mind. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Man I'm glad Adlet finally cleared things up I was starting to feel bad for him. Not surprised they kept who the seventh was for the next episode and I'll be surprised if it's not the princess. |
| absolutely love this show, really hope we get a second season. I'm hyped for the last episode next week. Actions scenes were well choreographed and I was surprised how cold Bunny girl is. I didn't expect much when I started watching this but it's probably my favourite show this season. |
Frrrosty said: The reason why it might seem that it's far-fetched is because there is a change in focus from episode 1-4 to episode 5-11 from an adventure story with a goal to a detective story. Now, what do you think about the fact that the decisive hints were littered during the adventure part? You either were caught off guard, or you could care less about the heavy dialogue in that stage. apokaliz500 said: CookingPriest said: Yeah that moment was one of first major "wait a second shouldn't WE THE VIEWER be able to figure that out without you bringing in random new facts out of your ass?" kind of moment for me with this show. It genuinely feels as if author wrote himself/herself into a corner with the mystery and had to think up random new things to wrap it up. Not really, hints were there long time ago. Sun Saint missing, hot area and coldness near the temple. Only thing it lacked is the scientific way fog appears and author probably assumed that invested enough reader/watcher would look up the science of the fog once they notice Adlet talks about the weather so much. And if you notice I already talked about those hints but the way they were used within the mystery is complete asspull that breaks the preset rules. Now if those set-ups were used WITHIN the rules the mystery established this would actually be a good mystery. Now, even if the pieces fit, they fit according to such logic that no viewer could have genuinely used, by breaking the rules the bounds of which the viewer was supposed to think within. And that is bad writing. It feels that the author took all the set-up they did and just threw it together randomly, thinking up new random things to glue it all together. |
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| So what happn to the 8th theory? And can someone please tell me what AOTY Is? Need a Gif of that kick please. |
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delloskill said: So what happened to the 8th theory? And can someone please tell me what AOTY Is? Anime Of The Year. |
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delloskill said: So what happn to the 8th theory? And can someone please tell me what AOTY Is? Need a Gif of that kick please. 8th theory = 8th PERSON/Accomplice - Riura/Leura Saint of Sun not an 8th Brave. |
CookingPriest said: And if you notice I already talked about those hints but the way they were used within the mystery is complete asspull that breaks the preset rules. Now if those set-ups were used WITHIN the rules the mystery established this would actually be a good mystery. Now, even if the pieces fit, they fit according to such logic that no viewer could have genuinely used, by breaking the rules the bounds of which the viewer was supposed to think within. And that is bad writing. It feels that the author took all the set-up they did and just threw it together randomly, thinking up new random things to glue it all together. Can you elaborate on what rule exactly has been broken? |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
| It would have actually been possible to work out after the barrier explanation thing (which I admit was quite late). So we suspect that there is another person acting that Adlet coined as the "eight". We also know it isn't any of the saints that they talked about with maura. 1 other saint is mentioned and has been missing for a while. Pretty sure that we also know that fremy didn't kill riura. IDK maybe I'm just not so annoyed because I read through the 60% of the LN before this episode. By the time I read it I knew the series was a mystery instead of turn off your head fantasy so I actually payed attention. It is very blatant to the fact that riura can burn down castles. I guess you would also have had the consider what fog actually is and how it is caused. Again it all comes down to lateral thinking. (literally spent all day bored at oxfam reading books about it). |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
apokaliz500 said: CookingPriest said: And if you notice I already talked about those hints but the way they were used within the mystery is complete asspull that breaks the preset rules. Now if those set-ups were used WITHIN the rules the mystery established this would actually be a good mystery. Now, even if the pieces fit, they fit according to such logic that no viewer could have genuinely used, by breaking the rules the bounds of which the viewer was supposed to think within. And that is bad writing. It feels that the author took all the set-up they did and just threw it together randomly, thinking up new random things to glue it all together. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1425082&show=450#msg42106594 And before you go and report me, no, I didn't read the LN. I actually already did report you and no your claim to "not have read the VN" does ont really hold any weight. I have seen people "speculate" by spoiling the twists way too many times in the shows I follow. Don't worry - at least you are not the first. There was someone who did similar "Theory" the episode the barrier activated. skudoops said: Another thing that bothered me about this is, didn't they say the demon god came around once every 300 years? As far as I remember the Rokka's were chosen when the demon god was close to returning, but shouldn't the saint of sun already be dead during that period of time? Why would one group of saints have the opportunity to meet another? Unless I'm mistaken and age doesn't work the same way in this universe or that people can become saints without getting a mark. Braves =/= Saints. Braves are the chosen six to fight the demon god. Saints are just superpowered females born with aspects of a god. |
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| Awesome episode. Nashe is a scary opponent when she's insane. I cannot BELIEVE that Goldof was the voice of reason for when they caught Adlet. I also can't believe that Chamon and Hans just came together. And raise your hand if you knew the episode would end right as he was about to say who the 7th is. |
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CookingPriest said: Interesting even if a bit convulted scheme but it makes sense. Either way time to go report the pretend-speculator poster who "speculated" about the Private who told about b arrier being in league with the seventh. Fucking spoilers everywhere veiled as pretend-speculations. This is why I avoid MAL episode threads as much as I can. I already tried to report those long ago. But the problem is since they pretend, we can't prove that they aren't just super intelligent and correctly found out, so they refused some of them. So I completely gave up on those, that's a waste of time to report them, they can't delete those. Just me or is this mystery breaking a bit too many of Van Dine's 20 Rules? I don't really find it satisfactory I counted before and it was breaking 5/20 IIRC. Including the one involving magic, which was logical to break from the start. It's actually being more respecful of those rules than most detective anime I can think of. Especiall ysince the 5 broken are of no importance. [quote=CookingPriest] HaXXspetten said: J Yeah I felt it relied too much on things the viewer had no way of knowing(fake barriers, seventh having an acomplice, half the rules we knew being fake, etc). I mean it all fits together nicely and all but If there's one thing disappointing about this mystery it is the fact that there's no way a viewer could have put it all together on their own. If I were to do this story I would have made Adlet and everyone else a lot more ambiguous and Adlet's rants and "theories" a lot more crazy and persecution-complex-like so the whole psychological warfare aspect works better. Right now the whole mystery aspect is shaky - after all this show is at its best when you DO NOT know who to trust(including MC himself). And it is at its lowest when "teamwork and trust", forced romance and "Mc explaining convulted theories" happens. Really leaves a kind of unpolished jewel impression so far. That's inexact. That shows have taken great care to show you the rule. if it' said by two peoples it's confirmed, if it's said by one it's not and may be a lie except if we're shown directly the proof. There was all the clues needed to solve since SEVERAL EPISODES AGO. You just missed them. It's eespecially funny yo usay you weren't told when Adlet already gave us an almost completely correct theory last episode. You had one week to work on the part that Fremy pointed out as not working. |
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DmonHiro said: Awesome episode. Nashe is a scary opponent when she's insane. I cannot BELIEVE that Goldof was the voice of reason for when they caught Adlet. I also can't believe that Chamon and Hans just came together. And raise your hand if you knew the episode would end right as he was about to say who the 7th is. *raises hand* |
Tylaen said: If only the animation and art consistency held up. I cri evrytiem. Hah. This. Fuck theories. Fuck acting. At this point in the animu, I really couldn't care less, lol. Dat cliffhanger. Gotta luv how the question still isn't answered. I wonder who the 7th is~ Only one more week to go~! |
The sun is a deadly laser |
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