Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku Episode 7 Discussion

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JusticeSoulTuna said:

So far, Hachiman has been falling over himself to try to patch things up or at least make peace with her since the incident in episode 2. And yet, all of it has seemingly made things worse. Just to end up with her saying those harsh but somewhat true words in episode 7. But to be honest, it's not all that fair. Yui was the first to bounce back and realize that 8man's actions are selfless and painful, and she cares enough about him to understand that. Hayama, Totsuka, Komachi and the rest of the auxiliary cast notice this too, and are trying to help him. So exactly why is the 'genius' that everyone adores too thick or stubborn to want to do so too?

Lately, it's been all about how she feels. What the character Yuki, as she's portrayed, seems to be doing is viewing 8man's actions solely by how they affect her. At first, I thought it was that she cared for him and was worried about his self-deprecating ways, but her actions leading up to ep 7 suggest otherwise. If she's so smart, why can't she see that he's doing all this for her as well as the club?

No, what Hachiman is doing is akin to lying to both himself and Yukino. This is the thing both of them hate the most. Nowhere she said she is smart. Just like the people around Yukino placing unnecessary expectations towards her character, you are doing exactly the same thing by claiming she is a smart person or a genius. She is not and through the burden of expectations, she was forced to become such person. As you can see, a character's image is molded by other people perception towards his or her character. This is certainly something Yukino especially Hachiman not fond of. People want to believe what they want to believe. The same case here in MAL. People believe Hachiman is righteous when he is not. People pity Hachiman because of his circumstances when he doesn't want it. And it's because she knew the reasons behind Hachiman's recent actions that she told him outright not to bother himself with it anymore. She is trying to sever the chains binding him to the club is exactly what she is trying to do. This is not about Yuikno, this about Hachiman not wanting to admit his true feelings but instead rely on lies to convey it. And you know what? Hachiman said he will not lie to himself but he did. A contradiction to your beliefs is akin to being a hypocrite. Again, a hypocrite is another type of person he hate the most.

JusticeSoulTuna said:
And yet she turns around and acts like he's making their relationship superficial by turning up to the club. Granted, what she said wasn't out of malice or hatred, but out of sadness for how their interactions have become. But that's why it's so selfish. 8man has been through so much crap in his life, and has to deal with people from his past showing up too. In season one, he was disappointed by both Yui and Yuki yet still went out of his way to help them.

The same can be said about Yukino. You are aware of Hachiman's pitiful life because he told you about it but what about Yukino? Did she told you everything about her struggles in life? Yes, albeit only the tip of the iceberg but Hachiman admitted it was harsh for her as much as it for him despite the lack of information. In here, most of us here are judging characters based on their own perspectives and knowledge but what about Hachiman? What did he think about her? This is not a story perceived by the viewer. This is a story told and narrated by one and only Hachiman. What matters here is what Hachiman think about what she said, not us. So, what he did he think you asked? He regretted his actions. He knew he is being selfish and try to cover his lies by more lies. Another question you should ask is why is he helping these various people? What exactly the benefits by assisting people with their troubles to Hachiman? Hayama took a shot at this but it was far off the mark apparently.

JusticeSoulTuna said:

But just because he makes a few fumbles, suddenly she's sad that he's not making her feel good about being near him? Not cool. Everyone else is worried about 8man's actions leading to him ruining himself, and as his friends it makes them sad. They want to help him, but they also want him to open up to them. Hence, a reciprocal interaction. But what has Yuki done, other than get mad/sad each time he does something she disagrees with. If she cares so much about the special relationship they had, why hasn't she done anything to fix it other than keep her distance and be mad about it?

As I said before, who are these friends that you speak of? He has none. Friendship is a two way street. If the feeling isn't mutual, you might as well refer to it as one sided and fake. Even though people around him is trying to reach out to him, he self-consciously erected an invisible barrier around himself not letting anyone to enter his domain. Why? Because he is afraid of being betrayed again. That's why. Despite all of the effort poured into reaching out to him, he just shoo them away but keep them under a reachable distance. The person at fault is not Yukino or anyone else but Hachiman himself. If he doesn't want to help himself, he doesn't deserved to be helped by others. As simple as that.

JusticeSoulTuna said:

But from how this is set up, it's super one sided. This whole time it's been 8man trying to patch things up with Yuki, whilst any interaction with her since has been nothing but scorn and sad remarks. How is that fair? When is she going to make the effort to try to appreciate his circumstance? Yuki, as she's written, is the only character pushing him away when he's been trying so hard to change. He's been constantly evaluating his recent choices and opening up to others and asking for help. Note, 8man is a character by design who has fallen into one bad circumstance to another and has become a loner. He's unable to see his self-worth, open up to anyone or appreciate anyone's feelings.

No, since episode 2 of the sequel, it is always Hachiman putting up an effort to cover his mistakes through dishonesty and deceit. Again, unless Hachiman is willing to spill the beans, I don't see why Yukino should went out of her way to force Hachiman to do so. She at least respects Hachiman's decision but at the same time, doesn't approve his actions as evidently shown through her recent demeanour and dialogues with Hachiman. Sure, Hachiman is changing as you said but is he changing for the better or for the worse? Note, Yukino is on the same boat as him and became a loner since episode 1 itself.

JusticeSoulTuna said:

In spite of this, characters like Yui know that's how he is and it won't change anytime soon, but she still cares for him and is happy to see him trying. Think of all the sweet moments they shared since episode 2. When Yui's sad, it's because she sees the club's relationship deteriorating. Yet all of Yuki's problems thus far have been me me me. Not once have you seen her make the effort to talk to 8man and patch up the rift between them or even vaguely appreciate why he's in the mess he's in currently. Any doubt I had before about her feeling sad cause of 8man's situation were dispelled by her clearly selfish words in ep 7, which put the full onus on him to open up and tell her sorry, I messed up, I need your help etc. And that's just not fair. When the heck is she going to take the time to bend over backwards for him? That's all I want personally. If she cares about him as much as people say she does, when in god's name is she going to show it?

It's not she didn't but more like she can't. Hachiman is like a stranger to her right after the fake confession. The question is not about whether she cares about Hachiman or not, it is mostly about Hachiman whether he want people caring about him in the first place. If people doesn't want any help from you, will you still force the other party to accept your assistance? Most certainly not. If you are, that is just plain selfish on your part. So far, Hachiman haven't ask anything. Everything he does until now is about what other people wanting him to do. But what about him? What does he truly want to do? What is his take on this situation without relying on other people's opinions? Hachiman is always avoiding the problem. He never once faced the problem and rectify it. Instead, he just brushed the problem away by going around it or make something as a scapegoat. Hence, the recent portrayal of Rumi still being a loner ever since the summer camp. Now, can you say that what he did back then as solving the problem? In the LN, Hachiman confessed he was heartbroken once he saw Rumi being alone. That's why he stopped Rumi when she wanted to thank him for what he did. The reason being he just simply can't accept the gratitude when he did nothing to solve the main issue. He felt bad and regretted about the solution he once thought it was great.

worldeditor11May 16, 2015 6:38 AM

May 16, 2015 6:32 AM

#207

SakurasouBusters

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Jun 2013

6123

Damn, that ending :( poor Hikki

May 16, 2015 6:37 AM

#208

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Be that as it may, it still doesn't excuse Yukino being the only person to not even attempt anything, yet constantly make him feel worse with words. I appreciate you going out of your way to reply to my paragraphs, and I will agree that it's hard to try to help someone who doesn't seem to want it or care about people. BUT, in spite of that others had made the effort and he made the effort back. Komachi and him made up, he opened up to Yui, he talked to Totsuka properly again, he even has his little asides with Hayama.

But from what you're saying, Yuki should be the only one who's exempt from this because, what, Hachiman dun goofed? I acknowledged from the BEGINNING that he goofed, but that doesn't mean he has to be the only person fixing the damn relationship. Also, i dont have an unrealistic view of Yuki, notice how I always wrote 'as she's written' or based on what people think of her. Of COURSE she has a past filled with struggle, but this does NOT exempt her from coming full circle like the rest of them.

That is all I want: closure, for the one character this damn anime has been revolving around to give even a goddamn inch for one second so the main character can at least understand how she feels. Cause at the moment it's shrouded in mystery. Simple as. Once again, I appreciate the lengthy reply but it's not that i dont get the characters, cause I do.

Tl:DR- yes, 8man is making mistakes, but he's trying to fix it and within the context of writing Yuki is being given a free pass to not even extend an olive branch, therefore this stupid civil war is continuing all because he has to be besides himself just to win back the main girl.

JusticeSoulTunaMay 16, 2015 6:41 AM

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May 16, 2015 6:40 AM

#209

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Naoki-Saten said:

poptart-sama said:
Yukino is unreasonably harsh towards Hachiman throughout season 1. At what point in time did the show give Hachiman and the audience any reason to care about her? None of the characters in this series acts human when it comes to Yukino. Any and all affection towards her always stems from their automatic subscription to how much of a brilliant person she is. Because when someone insults me and my personality upon first sight, that absolutely makes me see how intelligent and kind they are!

So from early on, you hated Yukino as a character. "I hate Yukinoshita" is the filter that you perceive the entire series through. You then proceed to pile up misinterpretation upon misinterpretation (I hate Yukino. Therefore, Yukino is a bad person. A bad person can't possibly form any bonds with people. Therefore, the club is a lie...), denying everything that's happening in the series that goes against your image of it and finally arriving at "this is totally bad writing".
You're sitting on your high horse, feeling cool and hipster, even looking down on the writer, but you forgot that you've been feeding that horse of yours with nothing but hatred, and now it's kicking you in the balls. You have no one but yourself to blame. You can't enjoy a perfectly good show due to your twisted view of it.

What if I told you that Yukino's so-called 'verbal abuse' is not born out of malice? That's she's in fact not being 'toxic'? What if I told you that people who speak harshly of others aren't automatically evil? What if I told you that Hachiman has the brains to differentiate between criticism, teasing, and actually malicious verbal abuse. Heck, even Yui could tell the difference. That would mean even Yui is smarter than you. Congrats.

poptart-sama said:
At what point in time did the show give Hachiman and the audience any reason to care about her? None of the characters in this series acts human when it comes to Yukino.

poptart-sama said:
I'm saying that there's nothing that happened from Season 1 Episode 1 up to now that would suggest that a slow growth was taking place, nothing to make the audience sense that the two were starting to get a feel for each other in a way that would change their dispositions towards each other.

Season 1, Episode 1, right at the beginning of the second half: Yukino tells Hachiman about the reason why she's a loner: It was due to the hatred and jealousy of the girls who were inferior to her. These are Hachiman's thoughts on the matter: "Yukinoshita's suffering because she's gifted. It wouldn't have been a problem for her to hide it. That's what most people in this world do. Yukinoshita didn't. She absolutely won't lie to herself. I began to think that the two of us were rather similar. That's unlike me."
Right there, Hachiman is pointing out the similarities between him and Yukino: They are both loners because they chose to not act like someone they were not, at the expense of possible social connections. Their situations are similar and their way of thinking is similar. Right after completing that train of thought, he offered Yukino to be friends with him.

Season 1, Episode 1, second half: Yui is quick to give up on learning how to bake cookies, which Yukino is quick to criticize her for. Surprisingly, Yui isn't deterred by Yukino's harsh words - she actually finds it 'cool'. Surely, you'll say that this is an impossible event, because there's a universal law that all people that say bad things about you must automatically be hated by you, which Yui didn't. Let's dig deeper into this.
This was Yui's reply:
"You did say some pretty horrible things. It felt to me like they came from the heart. I could tell because I've always been trying to fit in with people."
And there you have it. Yui is always trying to fit in and please others. She would never say things that would make people dislike her. She wouldn't have the guts to do so. But Yukino spoke her mind without hesitation. She did something that Yui wasn't capable of. That causes Yui to admire Yukino. There is a reason why Yui of all people managed to accept Yukino.

Season 1, Episode 3, second half. Tennis match.
Yukino showed up to defend the tennis court because Yui asked her to.
Yukino handed Saika a first-aid kit, asking him to take a look at Yui's leg injury.
She was about to call her club members "friends", but got embarassed.
Near the end of the match - pay attention now - Yukino publicly displayed her trust in Hachiman and fully entrusted the outcome of the match to him.

Those are mere examples of yukino growing closer to her club members. Just from the first three episodes, mind you. There should be more of you look carefully.
So tell me again how Yukino's relationship to other characters is 'unbelievable' -_-
Tell me again how there's no reason for anyone, the audience included, to care for Yukino -_-

With this, the basis for your favorite arguments is completely null and void.

poptart-sama said:
Yui remarks that Yukino is kind. Where do we even see this?

Yukino is the president, and most likely the founder of the service club. She goes out of her way to help other people without asking for anything in return. If that's not kindness, I don't know what is.
And remember Sagami's request in the cultural festival arc? Yukino literally worked herself sick, even though she fully knew she was only being used.

It's not like you didn't notice those things, right? You just ignored them due to your hatred for Yukino.

Agreed completely. Although at this point I feel as though your argument is just going in one ear and out the other. People like him don't want to be proven wrong and when given a counter-argument just stubbornly defend themselves and criticize the show and its supposed 'bad writing', only disheartening the people that want to have an actual discussion here. It's almost better to just ignore him at this point.

May 16, 2015 6:42 AM

#210

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JusticeSoulTuna said:
Be that as it may, it still doesn't excuse Yukino being the only person to not even attempt anything, yet constantly make him feel worse with words. I appreciate you going out of your way to reply to my paragraphs, and I will agree that it's hard to try to help someone who doesn't seem to want it or care about people. BUT, in spite of that others had made the effort and he made the effort back. Komachi and him made up, he opened up to Yui, he talked to Totsuka properly again, he even has his little asides with Hayama.

But from what you're saying, Yuki should be the only one who's exempt from this because, what, Hachiman dun goofed? I acknowledged from the BEGINNING that he goofed, but that doesn't mean he has to be the only person fixing the damn relationship. Also, i dont have an unrealistic view of Yuki, notice how I always wrote 'as she's written' or based on what people think of her. Of COURSE she has a past filled with struggle, but this does NOT exempt her from coming full circle like the rest of them.

That is all I want: closure, for the one character this damn anime has been revolving around to give even a goddamn inch for one second so the main character can at least understand how she feels. Cause at the moment it's shrouded in mystery. Simple as. Once again, I appreciate the lengthy reply but it's not that i dont get the characters, cause I do.

The mystery of her character is part of the plot.

May 16, 2015 6:43 AM

#211

Jsmithmim

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Dec 2010

174

1st half was pretty lame,but the 2nd half was just amazing...what a beautiful ending..5/5 for the ending..6 episodes left..i hope these episodes live up to my expectation..

Mim

May 16, 2015 6:46 AM

#212

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appu1232 said:
The mystery of her character is part of the plot.

And that is quite literally all I want, my goddamn full circle characterization, haha. I'm just irked that hella people are so hopped up on this idea that Yukino's always in the right even though she's flawed and 8man has to not only suffer his shitty circumstances but ALSO bend over backwards to appease the most perplexing character. I DO acknowledge they had a strong bond and for the longest time I was hoping that she'd be the one to break through to him, but her recent actions were nothing but (as i mentioned) me me me, imo. I dont hate her obv, nor do i worship her, I want her to be a complete character in the wider scope, cause at the moment she's not, imo.

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May 16, 2015 6:51 AM

#213

AnimeThink

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339

the climax is approaching, prepare your BODY for the next episode I can feel it

...the ending song left soooo much FEELS (>w<)

May 16, 2015 6:54 AM

#214

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12542

@JST

What I am saying is that all of them are responsible in that mess created by Hachiman. Everyone is trying to preserve their relationship through their own ways. Maybe it is not that apparent in the anime but Yukino is trying to preserve it by sending hints and this episode's dialogue is to free him from the burden of being a club member or whatever obligations he have with him in performing his duties. In other words, she is trying to reset the relationship.

I am not defending Yukino mind you. As I said, I find her actions to be comically laughable to an extent when this case received its closure.

May 16, 2015 6:56 AM

#215

CrimsonSilver4

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Jan 2013

4064

Another solo ED like in the first season <3
Though I'm a bit sad that they didn't show Kawasaki's sister (it happened before Rumi's appearance right?).

By the title of the next episode then I can guess that it will take 3 episodes to end volume 9?

May 16, 2015 6:57 AM

#216

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worldeditor11 said:
@JST

What I am saying is that all of them are responsible in that mess created by Hachiman. Everyone is trying to preserve their relationship through their own ways. Maybe it is not that apparent in the anime but Yukino is trying to preserve it by sending hints and this episode's dialogue is to free him from the burden of being a club member or whatever obligations he have with him in performing his duties. In other words, she is trying to reset the relationship.

I am not defending Yukino mind you. As I said, I find her actions to be comically laughable to an extent when this case received its closure.

Then we have reached an accord. Good show sir.

See guys? THAT is how you have a conversation about main girls without it being waifu wars. Aint hard man :V

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May 16, 2015 6:58 AM

#217

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JusticeSoulTuna said:

appu1232 said:
The mystery of her character is part of the plot.

And that is quite literally all I want, my goddamn full circle characterization, haha. I'm just irked that hella people are so hopped up on this idea that Yukino's always in the right even though she's flawed and 8man has to not only suffer his shitty circumstances but ALSO bend over backwards to appease the most perplexing character. I DO acknowledge they had a strong bond and for the longest time I was hoping that she'd be the one to break through to him, but her recent actions were nothing but (as i mentioned) me me me, imo. I dont hate her obv, nor do i worship her, I want her to be a complete character in the wider scope, cause at the moment she's not, imo.

That's understandable but the reason 8man feels obligated to fix everything is because he suspects Yukino actually wanted to become president and the guilt of taking that away is driving him.

As for Yukino, she sees through this but since she knows 8man won't change his methods she doesn't know how to resolve any of it without lifting his obligation from the club, therefore relieving him of any worry he harbors for her. This is her way of reaching out to him, it's just flawed in the sense that it can be hugely misinterpreted as her not giving a fuck about him.
But as I said: [Spoiler]A resolution for all of this is near.[Spoiler]

May 16, 2015 6:58 AM

#218

KirakuSenpai

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Yukino and Hachiman moment was cute <3

nyaa!

May 16, 2015 7:01 AM

#219

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JusticeSoulTuna said:

worldeditor11 said:
@JST

What I am saying is that all of them are responsible in that mess created by Hachiman. Everyone is trying to preserve their relationship through their own ways. Maybe it is not that apparent in the anime but Yukino is trying to preserve it by sending hints and this episode's dialogue is to free him from the burden of being a club member or whatever obligations he have with him in performing his duties. In other words, she is trying to reset the relationship.

I am not defending Yukino mind you. As I said, I find her actions to be comically laughable to an extent when this case received its closure.

Then we have reached an accord. Good show sir.

See guys? THAT is how you have a conversation about main girls without it being waifu wars. Aint hard man :V

Apologies for being slow in typing out my replies though.

May 16, 2015 7:04 AM

#220

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dayonee~~!

May 16, 2015 7:07 AM

#221

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That's understandable but the reason 8man feels obligated to fix everything is because he suspects Yukino actually wanted to become president and the guilt of taking that away is driving him.

As for Yukino, she sees through this but since she knows 8man won't change his methods she doesn't know how to resolve any of it without lifting his obligation from the club, therefore relieving him of any worry he harbors for her. This is her way of reaching out to him, it's just flawed in the sense that it can be hugely misinterpreted as her not giving a fuck about him.

You might be right about the student council part, because I noticed that it felt like a Pyrrhic victory even though he solved the crisis without throwing himself under the bus. Clearly something more was going on that meets the eye, my main issue was that this wasnt being conveyed through Yuki's actions and instead all we had were this minor jabs at 8man who was already trying to fix his 3rd mess up since the season started.

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May 16, 2015 7:10 AM

#222

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JusticeSoulTuna said:

That's understandable but the reason 8man feels obligated to fix everything is because he suspects Yukino actually wanted to become president and the guilt of taking that away is driving him.

As for Yukino, she sees through this but since she knows 8man won't change his methods she doesn't know how to resolve any of it without lifting his obligation from the club, therefore relieving him of any worry he harbors for her. This is her way of reaching out to him, it's just flawed in the sense that it can be hugely misinterpreted as her not giving a fuck about him.

You might be right about the student council part, because I noticed that it felt like a Pyrrhic victory even though he solved the crisis without throwing himself under the bus. Clearly something more was going on that meets the eye, my main issue was that this was being conveyed through Yuki's actions and instead all we had were this minor jabs at 8man who was already trying to fix his 3rd mess up since the season started.

Thing is, she doesn't want him to mess up in the first place. She wants him to trust them. Yukino has very high expectations of 8man at this point, sort of like how 8man did in the first season and that crashed. Now it's Yukino's turn to crash.

May 16, 2015 7:19 AM

#223

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JusticeSoulTuna said:

That's understandable but the reason 8man feels obligated to fix everything is because he suspects Yukino actually wanted to become president and the guilt of taking that away is driving him.

As for Yukino, she sees through this but since she knows 8man won't change his methods she doesn't know how to resolve any of it without lifting his obligation from the club, therefore relieving him of any worry he harbors for her. This is her way of reaching out to him, it's just flawed in the sense that it can be hugely misinterpreted as her not giving a fuck about him.

You might be right about the student council part, because I noticed that it felt like a Pyrrhic victory even though he solved the crisis without throwing himself under the bus. Clearly something more was going on that meets the eye, my main issue was that this wasnt being conveyed through Yuki's actions and instead all we had were this minor jabs at 8man who was already trying to fix his 3rd mess up since the season started.

Like most people, I think you will most probably start to like Yukino as a character once this problem is solved. For the first time ever, Yukino truly acts like any real person should. It is quite adorable in a way.

May 16, 2015 7:22 AM

#224

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appu1232 said:
Thing is, she doesn't want him to mess up in the first place. She wants him to trust them. Yukino has very high expectations of 8man at this point, sort of like how 8man did in the first season and that crashed. Now it's Yukino's turn to crash.

Perhaps Im either too cynical or untrusting, but I don't know if her motives are that good. Not so much i doubt that that she too wants a healthy conclusion but rather that I think she's as spiteful and petty as 8man is. So alot of what she says is meant to be cold/callous, but there is some heart in there. I think she had high expecations of him in the beginning of S2, especially since she sounded so wounded when she said 'I thought we hated superficial things', but some of what she said this ep were borderline spiteful, without intending to be. My question is what does she want? Cause until she too makes the effort, as ive been saying, she's just as big of a tweeny angst void as 8man is

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May 16, 2015 7:24 AM

#225

kidlat020

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726

don't get ready for the next FEELS yet. its still 6 days more to go. I understand the flames, but beware you might just burn yourself.

>I had no brain when I was 12
>Then everyone must had no brain when they were 12
>I experimented 100 samples and proved that they had no brain when they were 12
>Therefore children cannot consent

This is what science has done to humanity.

May 16, 2015 7:26 AM

#226

gandalf8

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91

Every week this series keeps on delivering. It was really hard to watch Hachiman trying the best he can to help Iroha deal with those nincompoop student council from the other school. Unfortunately Hachiman's current skills can only delay the inevitable, and things seem rather bleak for the future of this Christmas event. The way I see it, Hachiman desperately needs some help, but him being Hachiman, he just cannot find it in himself to request for help from his friends or accept help from those offering them to him like Saika does in this episode.

The situation in the Service club is also getting more dire by the minute if judging by the scenes at the end of the episode. I think the current problem right now is that both Hachiman and Yukinoshita, for their own reasons won't talk completely honestly with each other, thus they both act out after trying to interpret each others intentions. The problem is that they are both different people, and sometimes what they think each other is thinking, they get them completely wrong. This dysfunction has finally come to a head with Yukinoshita telling Hachiman to just stop coming to the club room for now. That scene seems to be sounding the death knell for the current Service club, and unless something drastic happens soon, the situation just might be turn to becoming unslavageable pretty soon.

On the shipping front, I'm finding myself drawn more and more towards Hachiman X Iroha these past few episodes. The chemistry between them is just sooo good, and I think that they both can subconsciously feel it. In his mind Hachiman might be saying that he isn't interested in Iroha at all and he's only helping her because he feels responsible for putting her on as the student council president, but I don't think he will go to such lengths if he didn't care about Iroha at all. And despite all her vehement statements that she doesn't see Hachiman in a romantic light, I think that all the effort he's done to help her is definitely leaving a positive impression in her mind. Still in the end, she is only a side character in the overall series, so I guess I'll just have to accept that this ship is probably doomed from the start.

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to give out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

May 16, 2015 7:28 AM

#227

testamentKAISER

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appu1232 said:

JusticeSoulTuna said:
Be that as it may, it still doesn't excuse Yukino being the only person to not even attempt anything, yet constantly make him feel worse with words. I appreciate you going out of your way to reply to my paragraphs, and I will agree that it's hard to try to help someone who doesn't seem to want it or care about people. BUT, in spite of that others had made the effort and he made the effort back. Komachi and him made up, he opened up to Yui, he talked to Totsuka properly again, he even has his little asides with Hayama.

But from what you're saying, Yuki should be the only one who's exempt from this because, what, Hachiman dun goofed? I acknowledged from the BEGINNING that he goofed, but that doesn't mean he has to be the only person fixing the damn relationship. Also, i dont have an unrealistic view of Yuki, notice how I always wrote 'as she's written' or based on what people think of her. Of COURSE she has a past filled with struggle, but this does NOT exempt her from coming full circle like the rest of them.

That is all I want: closure, for the one character this damn anime has been revolving around to give even a goddamn inch for one second so the main character can at least understand how she feels. Cause at the moment it's shrouded in mystery. Simple as. Once again, I appreciate the lengthy reply but it's not that i dont get the characters, cause I do.

The mystery of her character is part of the plot.

Yukinon's mystery will be resolved very soon?

May 16, 2015 7:31 AM

#228

supracseduch

Offline

Jan 2015

124

poptart-sama said:
The final scene just further serves to show how much of a 180 the writers are trying to pull with Yukino and Hachiman's relationship. In all of season 1, there was nothing but rudeness and malice from Yukino towards Hachiman, and this season Yukino has barely had as much interaction (or screen time, for that matter) with Hachiman as she did last season. Yet for whatever reason they're on much warmer terms now, as if all that crap that Hachiman took from her never changed anything between them.

Oh, that's right, it didn't. For the same reason why everyone mindlessly agreed with her childish logic back in season 1, the writers are just changing the characters' dispositions towards each other on a dime. With no real relational development from either of them that would suggest that something like a budding friendship is growing, this "emotional" scene we were shown falls flat, because it tries to play on the emotions of two characters that have no real reason to care about each other.

poptart-sama said:
I found the conversation between Yukino and Hachiman unbelievable because I find their relationship unbelievable. I said it already, and yet I'll say it again. All that rudeness and negative downtalk coming from Yukino would make anyone dislike her behavior. But the characters in Yahari don't exactly behave like humans, because characters like Yui would give her harsh behavior such a warm reception for no foreseeable reason, and everyone was so quick to agree with whatever flawed logic and assumptions she'd make up.

You'd think that the school outcast, someone who is jaded from a lifetime of negative experiences with girls, would be the last person to want to warm up to such a repelling character. Yet here we are, Yukino and Hachiman speaking on a more intimate level. I'm not saying initially sour relationships can bloom, I'm saying that there's nothing that happened from Season 1 Episode 1 up to now that would suggest that a slow growth was taking place, nothing to make the audience sense that the two were starting to get a feel for each other in a way that would change their dispositions towards each other. They were at each other's throat, and suddenly they're conversing on a more personal level.

You seem to think that Hachiman and Yukino's constant bantering was a result of mutual hate. but that's not the case. Their banters did not contain malice or ill intent. They were just being frank and honest with one another, as their personalities would predispose them to, and that was the entire foundation of their relationship. They both abhorred superficiality and thus they saw no need to put up a congenial front towards anyone.

They didn't exactly like or hate each other back in S1, but they clearly respected each other's views. Yukinon was a bit slower to appreciate Hikky's perspective, but you can see that she was warming up to him after he tried to stand up for her during the committee meetings (by pointing out a few slackers). And also, in the aftermath of the school festival, Yukino teasingly called Hachiman "the most hated man in school," but she clearly meant no disrespect here. If anything, her tone and facial expression there revealed how much she admired what he just did to Sagami.

So your refusal to acknowledge their friendship is baseless. They are on warmer terms this season than they were at the start of the first season. You saw their club's general atmosphere in this season's first episode. And you saw how Yukino bluntly told Tobe and Hayama to leave after Tobe said something disrespectful towards Hachiman. And you saw that they retained the occasional friendly banter.

Likewise, in episode 2, you saw how easily she placed her trust in him when he said there's a way to handle Tobe's confession. She didn't even force him to tell her what he was planning to do. That goes a long way to show just how much she respects him, so you can imagine how betrayed she felt when he completely went against his own ideals (about shunning superficiality). The Hachiman she knew and respected would not sacrifice himself for some petty and shallow clique like Hayama's group.

This episode, we were reminded of Hachiman's former ideals by Rumi's reappearance. We were reminded of how he promptly proceeded to destroy Rumi's incredibly shallow clique. Yukino echoed what he said about shallow friendships: "If this is all it takes to break us apart, then maybe we weren't all that close to begin with". So she tells Hachiman to stop forcing himself to go the club out of courtesy (because that's what she thinks Hachiman is doing). Hachiman, on the other hand, doesn't realize how much he values the club. He values it enough that he is willing to help out Iroha behind his clubmates' back lest his and Yukino's opinions clash once again. He just wants to preserve the status quo. Hachiman seems to be acting out of character but that's because he is undergoing character development. If the changes to his character caught you off guard and seemed too abrupt to you, then maybe you weren't paying enough attention.

May 16, 2015 7:33 AM

#229

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Apr 2015

260

testamentKAISER said:

appu1232 said:

The mystery of her character is part of the plot.

Yukinon's mystery will be resolved very soon?

That was poorly worded on my part. What i meant was:

May 16, 2015 7:35 AM

#230

specialister

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Dec 2013

25

JusticeSoulTuna said:

Perhaps Im either too cynical or untrusting, but I don't know if her motives are that good. Not so much i doubt that that she too wants a healthy conclusion but rather that I think she's as spiteful and petty as 8man is. So alot of what she says is meant to be cold/callous, but there is some heart in there. I think she had high expecations of him in the beginning of S2, especially since she sounded so wounded when she said 'I thought we hated superficial things', but some of what she said this ep were borderline spiteful, without intending to be. My question is what does she want? Cause until she too makes the effort, as ive been saying, she's just as big of a tweeny angst void as 8man is

simple, i think that all of the trio mc shouldn't lie to each other and their ownselves anymore as the starter ;)

May 16, 2015 7:37 AM

#231

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Apr 2013

12542

JusticeSoulTuna said:

appu1232 said:
Thing is, she doesn't want him to mess up in the first place. She wants him to trust them. Yukino has very high expectations of 8man at this point, sort of like how 8man did in the first season and that crashed. Now it's Yukino's turn to crash.

Perhaps Im either too cynical or untrusting, but I don't know if her motives are that good. Not so much i doubt that that she too wants a healthy conclusion but rather that I think she's as spiteful and petty as 8man is. So alot of what she says is meant to be cold/callous, but there is some heart in there. I think she had high expecations of him in the beginning of S2, especially since she sounded so wounded when she said 'I thought we hated superficial things', but some of what she said this ep were borderline spiteful, without intending to be. My question is what does she want? Cause until she too makes the effort, as ive been saying, she's just as big of a tweeny angst void as 8man is

She is just as confused as Hachiman is. Regarding the effort, it will be being the president of the student council. If you remembered what Meguri said in previous episodes about Yukino being the president with Hachiman and Yui as her henchman, it means that what she was trying to do was by removing the constraints that was binding Hachiman as a club member. By being a president, club will be dissolved and Hachiman will be free. If Hachiman was willing to rebuild the relationship he once wrecked, he will be offered a new place in the student council. Yukino prepared a new place for him to act, now the problem lies with Hachiman whether he want to take up the offer or not. With this, he will be able to display his own feelings without the burden of obligations as it will be his own free will to enter the student council. Unlike the service club which was forced by Hiratsuka thanks to his essay. Since this didn't happen, well, this is pretty much useless.

worldeditor11May 16, 2015 7:44 AM

May 16, 2015 7:39 AM

#232

testamentKAISER

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Dec 2014

6433

appu1232 said:

testamentKAISER said:

Yukinon's mystery will be resolved very soon?

That was poorly worded on my part. What i meant was:

Oh i see. I just became defensive there, sorry. I really love oregairu, that's why i can't tolerate misinformation about it. Sorry again. :)

May 16, 2015 7:42 AM

#233

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562356

That council is still not getting anything done...I'm still hoping that Yukino will somehow go there and decides everything for them because at this rate nobody is getting anywhere.

Hayama's statement was also interesting and I hope to see why soon. That scene in the end though..I don't know how I feel about that yet.

Either way it was good and I can't wait to see what happens next.

May 16, 2015 7:44 AM

#234

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Mar 2012

181

Inb4 Yukino goes yandere and stabs 8man. "If I can't have you no one can!" Or something :V

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May 16, 2015 7:48 AM

#235

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Apr 2015

260

testamentKAISER said:

appu1232 said:

That was poorly worded on my part. What i meant was:

Oh i see. I just became defensive there, sorry. I really love oregairu, that's why i can't tolerate misinformation about it. Sorry again. :)

No problem, that's completely understandable. I just figured he wanted a resolution to the conflict at hand, not all of Yukino's character and I just made it vague so as to not actually spoil anything.

May 16, 2015 7:52 AM

#236

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Apr 2015

260

JusticeSoulTuna said:
Inb4 Yukino goes yandere and stabs 8man. "If I can't have you no one can!" Or something :V

Oh, so you did read ahead then?

May 16, 2015 7:52 AM

#237

specialister

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Dec 2013

25

while hating superficial relationship and afraid of being hurt again, within his inner self hachiman admires the effort to maintain the relationship because he desperately wanting at least a friend.

May 16, 2015 7:55 AM

#238

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Apr 2013

12542

appu1232 said:

JusticeSoulTuna said:
Inb4 Yukino goes yandere and stabs 8man. "If I can't have you no one can!" Or something :V

Oh, so you did read ahead then?

Fix your avatar dimensions, please.

May 16, 2015 8:05 AM

#239

Aapjuh

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May 2010

155

DarklordVor said:

Aapjuh said:
i like her

Damn that makes it 4x rejection in only like what? 2-3 episodes? lol. Hachiman's romantic development and Iroha's is probably the only couple that's growing right now. Even Yui's unrequited love would lose to this development, so sad :(

We need 10.5 to be adapted!

i like Iroha cus so far she hasn't done anything revolting against hachiman, hachiman is not being dragged into stuff becus of her, yet its the other way around.

i feel sad for yui tho, but shes just watching from the sidelines tbh not rly acting upon her feelings.

yukino..who's that..

May 16, 2015 8:07 AM

#240