Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku Episode 3 Discussion

Excorcism said:
Just reading around and it’s kind of scary how off-base a lot of people can be, though I can easily be as well.

First, let’s start off with some details regarding Hachiman. He’s rotten, he’s a very logical (important) thinker, has a bad history with girls, has low self-esteem, supposedly loathes superficiality, and hates the idea of changing to fit in with others. These are all things we understand about him or get an idea of as early as the first volume. So it’s easy to get an idea of why he does what he does; it’s because he really doesn’t have all that much to lose which isn’t a very healthy mindset for a boy in high school. That said, he gets by in life just fine.

The problem now is that really isn’t true anymore. Currently, there are two people who are steadily climbing up his “things to treasure” list: Yukino and Yui. Obviously, the same applies to those two in regards to him. He may not realize it, but that’s their relationship now.

So let’s make some parallels of the Service Club with Hayama’s clique. What’s the difference? The former lacks the superficial shackles that plague the latter. Rightfully so, since Hachiman and Yukino won’t have any of that when they’re around.

Consider the conversation Hachiman and Hayama had at the riverbank. Hayama thinks his group dynamic isn’t superficial, Hachiman does. This is representative of their polar opposite ideologies. It’s also a good parallel to their two groups (again).

Fast forward to the confession in episode 2/end of volume 7. His impromptu solution is a fake confession to Ebina to avoid Tobe from getting rejected that could potentially cause their group to explode internally–This was what Ebina, Miura, and Hayama wished for. So what does this solution of his ultimately solve? It allows him to fulfill Ebina, Miura, and Hayama’s request as well as sidelining Tobe’s request for x number of length. Now let’s look at the deeper implications. He chose to protect the shallow bonds of a group that he honestly didn’t really care all that much about. He chose to place value on things that he was supposed to hate and loathe. And these are all the things he hated straight from episode 1 of season 1/volume 1. He essentially changed his ideology in order to protect something superficial which was ironically, the very first thing he argued about when he met Yukino.

For Yui, it’s understandable to see her get upset; she likes the guy and she has an idea of what kind of things he does to get things done. But for Yukino, it goes a bit deeper than that. The fake confession really wasn’t the issue to her, but the implications and aftermath of it. I don’t think Hachiman was hurt as much some people seem to imply from the rejection. One thing the anime kind of suggested at was Hayama’s pity for Hachiman, at least, that’s his interpretation of it. He’s more hurt by the fact that someone else was looking down on his way of life, pitying him because he’s this way. Of course, I’m sure he was hurt by how Yukino and Yui reacted as well.

So let’s talk about Yukino. She’s honest, the type to tackle things head-on, she always takes the straight path, confronts anything she sees wrong, absolutely loathes superficiality, and dislikes people who pretend to be something they’re not, that is, acting fake. This, just like Hachiman, are things we get a notion of as early as volume 1. So our two protagonists, while at different starting points on the map, are walking on the same road to the same destination.

Then we have Yukino’s position in regards to Hachiman. She shares the same idea that superficiality is pointless and that they have no value. While Yukino may be harsh to Hachiman, she recognizes and appreciates the honesty that Hachiman has. For dumb things, he gives the dumbest excuses, but when it comes to problems that matter, he solves them honestly and brutally; regardless of the outcome, he doesn’t make any excuses. He upholds this attitude as early as their first meeting to the solution with Sagami during the Cultural Festival. And this is where he is essentially constructing this image to Yukino whose too honest. It probably wasn’t intentional on his part, but that’s exactly what side effects are; Yukino now has this constructed notion that Hachiman is the way he is and that there really isn’t any reason why’d he suddenly do a 180 on his ideologies and she certainly does appreciate this. So in the same way Hachiman held her in a pedestal, it’s very like Yukino does the same thing with him.

Now consider the request. Just by nature of the one who asked for help, Yukino is already limited to what she can do to contribute, but she does whenever she’s able. She’s also kept in the dark most of the time since Hachiman typically doesn’t really consult with her or Yui all that much about anything except for simple things. So they end up leaving Hachiman in charge of getting the job done when he stated that he had some kind of plan to get the problem resolved. So there is some level of trust between the three of them, at least, that’s what the two think. Of course, little did they know that he’d actually do something that was completely out of left field, both as a solution and for his entire character.

And then, the sudden fake confession. Yukino’s confused. Why would you do something that went against your very nature? Weren’t you supposed to be someone who wouldn’t change, especially not in the face of superficial nonsense? What does that say about our relationship then? Were we, ultimately, just two strangers in the same clubroom, connected only by the title of the Service Club? (This is actually more volume 8-ish, but I’ll add it here anyway). How would prolonging something brittle that will end eventually help anyone? If you’re going to contradict yourself this way, are you going to continue doing that for every single thing in the future? (A cycle of regret and self-abasement).

Yukino (apparently people are too busy generalizing her character as a unkind bitch or something when it’s the complete opposite) isn’t upset because she’s selfish or anything of the sort, you could even say she’s upset on his behalf; you can also say she was hurt which I believe she was, maybe not to the extent as Yui, however. As I mentioned above, Yukino had expectations of him, an idealization of him even. But that was instantly dashed with just this single confession; he went against everything he stood for as well as destroying this notion she had of him, the notion that was solidified by their interactions together, his behavior, his attitude, and so forth for the past six months, the notion that made them similar and represented what they mutually shared. And perhaps, her relationship with Hachiman wasn’t as genuine as she had thought it to be because she just doesn’t know Hachiman anymore.

It’s because Yukino’s too honest, kind even, that she can’t stay quiet about what he did. She isn’t able to sweep things under the rug if she sees that they’re wrong like Hachiman can. Her confronting attitude may be annoying to some people, but it’s because she’s like this that she can affect Hachiman in ways that Yui (or anyone else for that matter) can’t. People who have a single-track mind in things they do will continue to be that way until told otherwise. But that’s not to say they can just outright tell him, “You’re doing everything wrong because x.” It’s because they don’t understand everything. That’s exactly why Yukino finds it frustrating when she isn’t able to put her dislike of his methods into words. It should’ve made sense, but yet, it didn’t. Factor in the fact she’s growing closer to him, it makes it even harder to accept (a lot of people seem to be ignoring the last arc of the first season for some reason). I’ll also add Hiratsuka-sensei’s line about how “getting scolded means someone is watching you.” So Yukino does care about him, to what extent, we don’t really know, but she cares enough that she would blow a fuse over something he did, which is a 180 from who she was 6 volumes (1 season) ago. So, yes, character development for both Hachiman (crapping on his way of life for the sake of others) and Yukino (showing concern and anger for someone she truly believed she could genuinely get along with over that single thing they shared).

There are some people who find it strange that Yukino gets angry here, but not during the Cultural Festival when his reputation plummets. For one thing, Yukino wasn’t there to see what he did directly, the only thing she could do was interpret what happened based on what Hayama and Sagami were like when they went back. But the confession was the first time she was able to see in-person what his methods do and accomplish. An even bigger issue is how fundamentally different both solutions are. One was for the sake of getting the request done, no superficiality. The confession solution was the same except with the superficiality. It’s kind of like the difference between seeing what happens in front of you versus hearing about what happened, you react differently; the severity of your reaction depends on the situation. Season 1 omitted the scene, but Yukino did have a chat with Hachiman about what it is that he did after the rooftop scene. She tells him that “he tries to save anyone,” something which he denies. But I think this scene in particular shows she has a grasp of what he’s like, though she didn’t think he’d actually do that fake confession of his to preserve Hayama’s group.

I’ll also add something from volume 10. Yukino doesn’t mind being hated as long as there are people who can understand her. Even if it’s just one individual who genuinely understands her, it doesn’t matter what the world says about her, rumors, etc. Very important when you realize her life in elementary and junior versus high school. The former without the Service Club and the latter with them. But I digress.

Ultimately, Hachiman’s confession was able to solve the issue with Hayama’s group, but consequently and ironically, ended up fracturing his own. What’s important is what the implications of his act were, not so much the idea of turning down implied confessions or whatnot, though I won’t argue against or for regarding those points.

Excorcism said:
So let’s talk about Yukino. She’s honest, the type to tackle things head-on, she always takes the straight path, confronts anything she sees wrong, absolutely loathes superficiality, and dislikes people who pretend to be something they’re not, that is, acting fake. This, just like Hachiman, are things we get a notion of as early as volume 1. So our two protagonists, while at different starting points on the map, are walking on the same road to the same destination.

Then we have Yukino’s position in regards to Hachiman. She shares the same idea that superficiality is pointless and that they have no value. While Yukino may be harsh to Hachiman, she recognizes and appreciates the honesty that Hachiman has. For dumb things, he gives the dumbest excuses, but when it comes to problems that matter, he solves them honestly and brutally; regardless of the outcome, he doesn’t make any excuses. He upholds this attitude as early as their first meeting to the solution with Sagami during the Cultural Festival. And this is where he is essentially constructing this image to Yukino whose too honest. It probably wasn’t intentional on his part, but that’s exactly what side effects are; Yukino now has this constructed notion that Hachiman is the way he is and that there really isn’t any reason why’d he suddenly do a 180 on his ideologies and she certainly does appreciate this. So in the same way Hachiman held her in a pedestal, it’s very like Yukino does the same thing with him.

Now consider the request. Just by nature of the one who asked for help, Yukino is already limited to what she can do to contribute, but she does whenever she’s able. She’s also kept in the dark most of the time since Hachiman typically doesn’t really consult with her or Yui all that much about anything except for simple things. So they end up leaving Hachiman in charge of getting the job done when he stated that he had some kind of plan to get the problem resolved. So there is some level of trust between the three of them, at least, that’s what the two think. Of course, little did they know that he’d actually do something that was completely out of left field, both as a solution and for his entire character.

And then, the sudden fake confession. Yukino’s confused. Why would you do something that went against your very nature? Weren’t you supposed to be someone who wouldn’t change, especially not in the face of superficial nonsense? What does that say about our relationship then? Were we, ultimately, just two strangers in the same clubroom, connected only by the title of the Service Club? (This is actually more volume 8-ish, but I’ll add it here anyway). How would prolonging something brittle that will end eventually help anyone? If you’re going to contradict yourself this way, are you going to continue doing that for every single thing in the future? (A cycle of regret and self-abasement).

Yukino (apparently people are too busy generalizing her character as a unkind bitch or something when it’s the complete opposite) isn’t upset because she’s selfish or anything of the sort, you could even say she’s upset on his behalf; you can also say she was hurt which I believe she was, maybe not to the extent as Yui, however. As I mentioned above, Yukino had expectations of him, an idealization of him even. But that was instantly dashed with just this single confession; he went against everything he stood for as well as destroying this notion she had of him, the notion that was solidified by their interactions together, his behavior, his attitude, and so forth for the past six months, the notion that made them similar and represented what they mutually shared. And perhaps, her relationship with Hachiman wasn’t as genuine as she had thought it to be because she just doesn’t know Hachiman anymore.

It’s because Yukino’s too honest, kind even, that she can’t stay quiet about what he did. She isn’t able to sweep things under the rug if she sees that they’re wrong like Hachiman can. Her confronting attitude may be annoying to some people, but it’s because she’s like this that she can affect Hachiman in ways that Yui (or anyone else for that matter) can’t. People who have a single-track mind in things they do will continue to be that way until told otherwise. But that’s not to say they can just outright tell him, “You’re doing everything wrong because x.” It’s because they don’t understand everything. That’s exactly why Yukino finds it frustrating when she isn’t able to put her dislike of his methods into words. It should’ve made sense, but yet, it didn’t. Factor in the fact she’s growing closer to him, it makes it even harder to accept (a lot of people seem to be ignoring the last arc of the first season for some reason). I’ll also add Hiratsuka-sensei’s line about how “getting scolded means someone is watching you.” So Yukino does care about him, to what extent, we don’t really know, but she cares enough that she would blow a fuse over something he did, which is a 180 from who she was 6 volumes (1 season) ago. So, yes, character development for both Hachiman (crapping on his way of life for the sake of others) and Yukino (showing concern and anger for someone she truly believed she could genuinely get along with over that single thing they shared).

There are some people who find it strange that Yukino gets angry here, but not during the Cultural Festival when his reputation plummets. For one thing, Yukino wasn’t there to see what he did directly, the only thing she could do was interpret what happened based on what Hayama and Sagami were like when they went back. But the confession was the first time she was able to see in-person what his methods do and accomplish. An even bigger issue is how fundamentally different both solutions are. One was for the sake of getting the request done, no superficiality. The confession solution was the same except with the superficiality. It’s kind of like the difference between seeing what happens in front of you versus hearing about what happened, you react differently; the severity of your reaction depends on the situation. Season 1 omitted the scene, but Yukino did have a chat with Hachiman about what it is that he did after the rooftop scene. She tells him that “he tries to save anyone,” something which he denies. But I think this scene in particular shows she has a grasp of what he’s like, though she didn’t think he’d actually do that fake confession of his to preserve Hayama’s group.