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C-Core said: Close enough... :|Botato said: I was thinking it's because it's taking place in the same time that 5th HGW would be. Illya is supposedly 11, Shirou is 16 or 17. The ages already don't match. FZ started in the mid-nineties and Illya was around eight back then. Also, almost all FSN Servants were summoned by using catalysts. The cards were made... in a different way. |
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C-Core said: Botato said: I was thinking it's because it's taking place in the same time that 5th HGW would be. Illya is supposedly 11, Shirou is 16 or 17. The ages already don't match. FZ started in the mid-nineties and Illya was around eight back then. Also, almost all FSN Servants were summoned by using catalysts. The cards were made... in a different way. We do not know why Illya is 11. For all we know Iris and Kerry pretty much "reboot" her. Homunculi are fickle business in terms of ages. Otherwise yes, KLP starts on exact day Saber would be summoned in Fifth War. Most of cards here are "echoes" of that war, so to say, no matter HOW they are made. |
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| That's why I said "supposedly" 11. There are lots of things that are left unexplained, like why Shirou was still adopted by Kiritsugu, even though there was no fire etc. The most logical explanations are on the meta level anyway: to appeal more to fans. Why are some of you even seriously thinking so much about it? |
C-Core said: I wouldn't call that thinking too much, some one asked a question and it just was the first thing that popped up.Why are some of you even seriously thinking so much about it? |
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| I was more referring to Fai. Not exclusively this thread, though. |
C-Core said: That's why I said "supposedly" 11. There are lots of things that are left unexplained, like why Shirou was still adopted by Kiritsugu, even though there was no fire etc. The most logical explanations are on the meta level anyway: to appeal more to fans. Why are some of you even seriously thinking so much about it? I don't expect those questions to be answered till the final arc in either 4vier or whatever comes after. AS I said before obviously its most likely consequences of whatever Kerry and Iris did. |
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| Chiwa Saito & Junichi Suwabe are the best Archer's VA.. |
kcazzz said: ssjokg said: It's the Saber card that gave her power to match Kuro. And Kuro would have a serious problem if Miyu was using the card's power properly. i think that kuro was actually holding back, and miyu doesn't have enough mana in her to use the saber card properly, not like last season when ilya/kuro was at full power when fighting the saber card, and was spamming as much mana as she wants It's true that Kuro was holding back, since she was only fighting with K&B. As for Miyu having enough mana.....well... Anyway, Miyu even with lack of mana should have been able to beat Kuro, with the way Kuro was fighting.Miyu's attacks were nothing like a "true" Saber's.Kuro clearly says that.And sword swings dont really use big amounts of mana unless if you are a Berserker. |
| So, end of one arc, I guess this was fine episode. Next time fanservice and then... Bazett perhaps? I just wonder - what exactly happened when Kuro become human? Did she got her own prana source or rather did she got her real body instead? What about her abilities and Archer card Tohsaka and Luvia are seeking, was it destroyed in the process? (this ep never explained details and I hope those four remaining eps aren't fanservice only). But there is still Caren's observing business and Miyu's past to sort out, right? My bet is this time, they end the series with cliffhanger. |
Mich666Aug 15, 2014 5:26 PM
Mich666 said: So, end of one arc, I guess this was fine episode. Next time fanservice and then... Bazett perhaps? I just wonder - what exactly happened when Kuro become human? Did she got her own prana source or rather did she got her real body instead? Kuro is originally a part of Illya, who was discarded because of Illya's wish "to be a normal human", the Archer card and Illya's wish caused her incarnation. She has no mana source, that's why she has to steal mana from others by kissing them. Mich666 said: What about her abilities and Archer card Tohsaka and Luvia are seeking, was it destroyed in the process? See episode 5. Kuro already said the card is inside her. Mich666 said: (this ep never explained details and I hope those four remaining eps aren't fanservice only). But there is still Caren's observing business and Miyu's past to sort out, right? My bet is this time, they end the series with cliffhanger. I'd say they end this season at around chapter 16, maybe a chapter more or not. Still over ten chapters left then, so expect a cliffhanger. The time for Caren and Miyu will eventually come. |
C-Core said: Kuro is originally a part of Illya, who was discarded because of Illya's wish "to be a normal human", the Archer card and Illya's wish caused her incarnation. She has no mana source, that's why she has to steal mana from others by kissing them. From what I saw it seems Kuro was discarded because of Iri and Kiritsugu's decision at Illya's birth. Or rather "sealed" in than discarded for Illya to have carefree childhood. I know it wasn't Kuro at that time but only part of her, past memories. But Illya freed her during that mentioned fight in S1 (or rather it was Kuro who took over and included Archer card, she said so in this episode). But I was talking about what happened to her after her HG wish in this episode, what was actually changed. Did she stopped being holy grail to become human? Archer card inside her helped her stay in the existence (servant-style kinda) but after the change it's obvious she no longer needs it (so did it disappear?). For her to not disappear after her HG wish it means a) she got source of her own, b) she is regular human now. |
Mich666 said: C-Core said: Kuro is originally a part of Illya, who was discarded because of Illya's wish "to be a normal human", the Archer card and Illya's wish caused her incarnation. She has no mana source, that's why she has to steal mana from others by kissing them. From what I saw it seems Kuro was discarded because of Iri and Kiritsugu's decision at Illya's birth. Or rather "sealed" in than discarded for Illya to have carefree childhood. I know it wasn't Kuro at that time but only part of her, past memories. But Illya freed her during that mentioned fight in S1 (or rather it was Kuro who took over and included Archer card, she said so in this episode). No, it was Illya's wish that caused her to split off from Illya, that's one of the reasons she was so pissed at Illya, as Illya (even if accidentally) tried to rid herself of that part of hers. Illya's wish was an immediate threat to Kuro. Mich666 said: But I was talking about what happened to her after her HG wish in this episode, what was actually changed. Did she stopped being holy grail to become human? Archer card inside her helped her stay in the existence (servant-style kinda) but after the change it's obvious she no longer needs it (so did it disappear?). For her to not disappear after her HG wish it means a) she got source of her own, b) she is regular human now. No, Kuro's "wish" stabilized her corporeal form. She still uses the Archer card like the Servants use the class vessels the Holy Grail initially prepares. She doesn't have a mana source and she isn't human, either. She is a miracle that is still allowed to remain in the world. FSN Spoilers for non-VN readers: |
kcazzz said: i think ilya was younger than 8 in FZ, maybe 4 or 5, since she isn't taller than kiritsugu's waist. this universe may be an alternate timeline after the events of FZ. let say the holy grail can really grant wishes and kiritsugu won it and wished for maybe an end to the holy grail wars or something similar, like maybe sealing all the powers of the servant classes into cards. then Irisviel sealed kuro away since there is no longer a need for her. so ilya continued to live a normal live for 7 to 8 years until the events of this series takes place No, Illya is at the least seven in FZ. That's a fact. Her growth is very slow because she's a modified homunculus and Kiritsugu already said she probably wouldn't develop secondary sexual characteristics. Fate/Zero said: Having no experience in raising children before Ilyasviel, Kiritsugu doesn't know how they grow up. But he understands that it isn't normal for his daughter, who turns 8 this year, to weigh 15 kilos. Perhaps, the absurd adjustments she received at birth are the reason. To Kiritsugu and Irisviel, it was obvious she would be late in reaching adulthood. Will her body turn into that of an adult as years pass or not? No, rather, they had no hope. As a magus, Kiritsugu has already closed his ruthless diagnosis. There is 80 to 90% chances that Ilyasviel's growth will stop before her secondary sex characteristic appear. |
CapsuleCoreAug 16, 2014 11:24 AM
Mich666 said: C-Core said: Kuro is originally a part of Illya, who was discarded because of Illya's wish "to be a normal human", the Archer card and Illya's wish caused her incarnation. She has no mana source, that's why she has to steal mana from others by kissing them. From what I saw it seems Kuro was discarded because of Iri and Kiritsugu's decision at Illya's birth. Or rather "sealed" in than discarded for Illya to have carefree childhood. I know it wasn't Kuro at that time but only part of her, past memories. But Illya freed her during that mentioned fight in S1 (or rather it was Kuro who took over and included Archer card, she said so in this episode). But I was talking about what happened to her after her HG wish in this episode, what was actually changed. Did she stopped being holy grail to become human? Archer card inside her helped her stay in the existence (servant-style kinda) but after the change it's obvious she no longer needs it (so did it disappear?). For her to not disappear after her HG wish it means a) she got source of her own, b) she is regular human now. From Assassin fight onward, Illya has been in consistent "I WANT TO BE NORMAL" mode, which is what allowed Kuro to take shape. Kuro simply happens to have the memories that made the original Illya before sealing, so she identifies at that. But she as a being is creation of Illya's wish, due to what Illya is. The anime failed to adapt that correctly. |
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| Image: It's nice when you don't understand why a character does what they do. No... no it isn't. I lied. But we finally find out her reason, and it's because she was aborted as a child or something. It's an alright reason, but now i've been sitting here for half a dozen episodes, frustrated about being withheld motivation for extreme behaviour. It's a bit late, man. But hey! Now that that's all resolved we can get on with the meat of this show. More fanservice! ^______^ Just gimme more of that short one voiced by Katou Emiri. She is awesome. As is Liz. And maybe Iri will get to do something. Oh man, i'm almost excited for this show when there's no story in sight. |
VolblaAug 16, 2014 12:35 PM
Fai said: From Assassin fight onward, Illya has been in consistent "I WANT TO BE NORMAL" mode, which is what allowed Kuro to take shape. Kuro simply happens to have the memories that made the original Illya before sealing, so she identifies at that. But she as a being is creation of Illya's wish, due to what Illya is. The anime failed to adapt that correctly. C-Core said: No, it was Illya's wish that caused her to split off from Illya, that's one of the reasons she was so pissed at Illya, as Illya (even if accidentally) tried to rid herself of that part of hers. Illya's wish was an immediate threat to Kuro. No, Kuro's "wish" stabilized her corporeal form. She still uses the Archer card like the Servants use the class vessels the Holy Grail initially prepares. She doesn't have a mana source and she isn't human, either. She is a miracle that is still allowed to remain in the world. FSN Spoilers for non-VN readers: Men, one has to hate Silver Link that they fail to deliver such vital information over and over again. Anyway, speaking of Illya, she stopped growing sometime during 5th HGW, she said so in Ataraxia, and from now on she'll never get any older. Though she is probably immortal and wholly dependent on stable supply of mana in the air to live on as well both maids. Illya here may have human body but I still hadn't made my mind whether Kuro can be considered homunculus in this world. Are Sella and Liz homunculi here? And what about Dress of Heaven? |
Mich666 said: Fai said: From Assassin fight onward, Illya has been in consistent "I WANT TO BE NORMAL" mode, which is what allowed Kuro to take shape. Kuro simply happens to have the memories that made the original Illya before sealing, so she identifies at that. But she as a being is creation of Illya's wish, due to what Illya is. The anime failed to adapt that correctly. C-Core said: No, it was Illya's wish that caused her to split off from Illya, that's one of the reasons she was so pissed at Illya, as Illya (even if accidentally) tried to rid herself of that part of hers. Illya's wish was an immediate threat to Kuro. No, Kuro's "wish" stabilized her corporeal form. She still uses the Archer card like the Servants use the class vessels the Holy Grail initially prepares. She doesn't have a mana source and she isn't human, either. She is a miracle that is still allowed to remain in the world. FSN Spoilers for non-VN readers: Men, one has to hate Silver Link that they fail to deliver such vital information over and over again. Anyway, speaking of Illya, she stopped growing sometime during 5th HGW, she said so in Ataraxia, and from now on she'll never get any older. Though she is probably immortal and wholly dependent on stable supply of mana in the air to live on as well both maids. Illya here may have human body but I still hadn't made my mind whether Kuro can be considered homunculus in this world. Are Sella and Liz homunculi here? And what about Dress of Heaven? Thats something that can be figured out even in the adaptation.It's just way less obvious than I the manga.Well she does look taller in Fsn than she is with Kiritsugu before the 4th starts so she got a bit taller, but that isnt much. Really doubt it about her being immortal Kuro shoulnt be considered one, at least her body. Logically speaking Liz and Sella are stil homunculi. Whether they have any fuctions as homunculi we dont know. |
ssjokg said: Logically speaking Liz and Sella are stil homunculi. Whether they have any fuctions as homunculi we dont know. Hmm, now I am even more curious what Iri and Kiritsugu did to stop the War. Or are still doing as they are still fighting for their daily lives. As Einzbern castle in Europe was destroyed (maybe with all knowledge there) they could alienate other families as they denied them the means to summon next Holy Grail. Of course, provided there is anyone left in other families. But Magic Association and Holy Church can be dangerous enemies... ...now that I am thinking of it there are at least three adepts for Sealing Designation. And what I meant before was that Illya would be immortal (aka mana dependable) if no HGW happened. We know she was meant to last at least sixty years. |
Mich666Aug 17, 2014 5:28 AM
| Animations are absolutely fantastic. O.O Was kinda afraid that they would stay off the manga, but glad they didn't. The feels were legit. |
| Really cool fight, Got some answers, and many many more unanswered ones lol |
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| I dont want a normal life! |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| Did Kuro grant her own wish as a holy grail which allowed her to continue living? |
| now that Irie is back i have a reason to continue this series, i had almost dropped it |
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SanaeSnake said: Hmm seems like it, maybe that means that it's going to start over with the holy grail.Did Kuro grant her own wish as a holy grail which allowed her to continue living? |
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| 4/5 I wanted more melodrama, not a final so-good. Something quite different invee is the context in which Miyu and fought Kuro han, which makes the narrative very good. The animations are second only to those seen in Fate / Zero, but a trifle! They also designs beautiful thanks to the brilliant colors and good color design chosen. I hope it arrives soon as well as another episode dedicated to the fun even in combat. |
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| Iri's alchemy made me go hnnnnnngh! Was nice to see her again. A lot of times in the episode made me go "AWWWWW!!!" Pretty nice overall. |
| wtf illya kissed... her other self lol. |
| Aww, Kuro is accepted by Illya and the gang :) The battle in the beginning was awesome, but the second half was dramatic. Is that thing about Kuro being born as the Holy Grail for the war a spoiler for the rest of the Fate series? (with this being a spin off and all) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Noodle070 said: Short answer:YesIs that thing about Kuro being born as the Holy Grail for the war a spoiler for the rest of the Fate series? (with this being a spin off and all) |
| Pretty melodramatic episode, I do wonder what will happen next. |
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| Pretty crazy episode~ The battle scene was like... incredible! |
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| I just love how Irisviel is so calm and innocent while she was "punishing" both Illyvas |
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| So finally Chloe is one of the good guys now, like everybody already knew would happen. Next episode looks funny, looking forward to it :) |
| Pssh, didn't feel a fraction of sadness for her. Bitch deserved to fade away. |
794 said: Pssh, didn't feel a fraction of sadness for her. Bitch deserved to fade away. But you have to admit, the battle scenes in the first half were decent(considering that it involved 2 elementary magical girls that were fighting like killing machines instead of the typical cuteness). The emotional scene would've been better if it didn't take place in the bath. We already had our fanservice episode. I get it: Japan love them bath scenes but how many do we flipping need!?!?!? |
| I play video games. You should play a video game because you read my signature. |
| Irisveil laying the smack down on her daughters XD Seems like Kuro joins the good side. |
| [url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/QcK_Dagger_HeaT&sclick=1][IMG] |
| i must say. the animation in the series is really good |
| That was an intense fight. How Irisviel finished the fight was glorious. Poor Illya was punished too. |
| You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi  |
| arrives "mom" and repair all!!!! Happy end? x D |
| I was kinda shedding a tear or two on what happened to Chloe. In all honesty, she could have been canon in the main story line. They already experimented so many Illya's anyways. Why is Irisviel always home, but not Kiritsugu???? I still don't know why Irisviel was keeping quiet all this time. Well at least the fight between Miyu and Chloe was ace. WTF, why these BD's don't have end cards at all?!?! The 1st season had it. why stop?? :( |
| Irisviel sure takes things in stride... the fight with Clo and Miyu was pretty sweet, though. As always superb animation. |
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| when you only watch this show for best girl and the yuri lolis but it actually has great fights, characters and story. I guess people saying this is the best part of FATE were actually right |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| It seems that nigga Illya is stronger than Irisviel. Well, I feel nothing for nigga Illya. |
| He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame. |
| right that was the most wholesome episode to date in this series, honestly thought i would be more confused on then true meaning of Kuro's existence and the link to the holy grail but they explained it very well so even an egg head like me got it. Still feels really bad that Kuro was the one who was suppose to harbor the weight of the grail and watch as illya lived the happy life. again Irisveil is mommy material and i want her to make breakfast for me every morning. |
 "yabe." |
| did not expect Chloe to be the Holy Grail! glad this problem is finally solved, she has family and friends now. :) |
| Ok, so everything was Chloe's revenge, because she was banished for years, or something like that?.. Well, no idea, how was her consciousness during these years, if she floated in some space, or if it was short like a dream.. Other than that.. I did not like or dislike this, I guess.. It makes sense, what they say, I guess.. But also I don't relate to Chloe as a character.. Also, mom not telling, why she sealed Chloe - is a question as well.. Her shrugging this off is kind of a dick move.. Like Chloe was being not cooperative dick herself towards others for quite some time.. But this mom can be no better.. |
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