Nobunaga the Fool Episode 21 Discussion

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May 2014

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Bodomschild said:
Well of course it's always been Caesar>Mitsuhide lol... I have to admit I was anxious of who Ichi would pick in the end considering the stage play, and the first love always wins cliche. Ichi's crawling and ignoring Mitsu was hilarious and heartbreaking at the same time...BTW did Ichi drop Caesar's head when he died? The last shot though perfect I would have liked it if their hands were holding on to each others.

I have to admit I was anxious too for those same reasons. Especially that stage play... I was confident, but nervous. XD No, she didn't as in the next scene she's still holding him, but it sure look like she did. I guess she was losing her strength and was holding him to the best of her ability.

Jun 4, 2014 12:10 AM

#153

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Bodomschild said:
Well of course it's always been Caesar>Mitsuhide lol... I have to admit I was anxious of who Ichi would pick in the end considering the stage play, and the first love always wins cliche. Ichi's crawling and ignoring Mitsu was hilarious and heartbreaking at the same time...BTW did Ichi drop Caesar's head when he died? The last shot though perfect I would have liked it if their hands were holding on to each others.

Well yeah usually when you burn people like ceasar did to mitsu in ep 17, it bites them back in the ass, possibly by forcing the other guy to change and try to win the girls affections, while the said guy has something bad happen to him, i was worried caesar would die for ichi and she will end up with Mitsu, especially since i predicted his brainwashing since he got caught..

But no... caesar is no ordinary character, he is the guy who Inverses all the stereotypical character tropes, From pulling a last minute deus ex machina powerup to defeat all of the good guys with 1 shot (usually this is reserved for the main character), to force the MC sister to marry him, i can go on and on...

Nah, caesar lost his strength when he died and it dropped a little, but she didnt let it go until the end, just watch carefully...

BTW notice how Ichi despite being a weak woman and being wounded fatally did not succumb to her wounds until caesar died, i mean she is a physically weak girl, yet she lived longer than caesar despite him being the man (though he was obviously wounded, and their wounds may be in different places).. she seemed fine until the exact moment he died, that seemed like when she lost the will to fight against her injuries, aw she wanted to be with him as long as possible..

I mean.. come on.. even Nobu was so obviously shipping Caesar x Ichi this episode

jfsJun 4, 2014 12:15 AM

Jun 4, 2014 12:19 AM

#154

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That's good atleast. I watch this on a small screen so I can't pick up the small details sometimes. It doesn't help that the sfx made it sound like his head hit to the floor.

Jun 4, 2014 1:06 AM

#155

HowTragic

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Would someone fucking wreck Jeanne already? I fucking swear, she's been the most useless character in this entire season. She picks the damn wrong cards, kills people. Lets her emotion overtake her judgment, nearly kills Nobunaga while still unable to save the people. And now, 21 episodes later, she still hasn't got a fucking clue what she's doing. Couldn't we just have left her in the torturing chamber like 4 episodes ago? Redefining incompetence on a structural level.

And that sub-par tragic end. Caesar's casual "fuck you bitch, stabbing me and shit" counterattack after being impaled, hysterical. He got up and kifed her like it was the most natural thing to do after being stabbed. I'm not at all sad that Ichihime kicked the bucket. You take what you have for granted and this is the result. Idealist hoe got what she deserved, but now it time for some vengeance and serious wreckage next episode. Time for Mitsuhide to cast away his humanity and wreck havoc like the demon he is.

Jun 4, 2014 1:23 AM

#156

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jfs said:

Bodomschild said:
Well of course it's always been Caesar>Mitsuhide lol... I have to admit I was anxious of who Ichi would pick in the end considering the stage play, and the first love always wins cliche. Ichi's crawling and ignoring Mitsu was hilarious and heartbreaking at the same time...BTW did Ichi drop Caesar's head when he died? The last shot though perfect I would have liked it if their hands were holding on to each others.

Well yeah usually when you burn people like ceasar did to mitsu in ep 17, it bites them back in the ass, possibly by forcing the other guy to change and try to win the girls affections, while the said guy has something bad happen to him, i was worried caesar would die for ichi and she will end up with Mitsu, especially since i predicted his brainwashing since he got caught..

But no... caesar is no ordinary character, he is the guy who Inverses all the stereotypical character tropes, From pulling a last minute deus ex machina powerup to defeat all of the good guys with 1 shot (usually this is reserved for the main character), to force the MC sister to marry him, i can go on and on...

Nah, caesar lost his strength when he died and it dropped a little, but she didnt let it go until the end, just watch carefully...

BTW notice how Ichi despite being a weak woman and being wounded fatally did not succumb to her wounds until caesar died, i mean she is a physically weak girl, yet she lived longer than caesar despite him being the man (though he was obviously wounded, and their wounds may be in different places).. she seemed fine until the exact moment he died, that seemed like when she lost the will to fight against her injuries, aw she wanted to be with him as long as possible..

I mean.. come on.. even Nobu was so obviously shipping Caesar x Ichi this episode

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of happening. And afraid Mitsu would be brainwashed by Arthur and Ichi gets him back right at the end (there's a theory the historical Mitsu survived so...) Fortunately that did not happen.

But yeah, Caesar is not. And that's one reason I like him! He turns all the tropes on their heads! He's just awesome like that. But seriously, that was so surprising how he got that power up and beat them. I don't think I ever saw that happen before.

I was surprised Ichi lived longer myself (well, she was the 3rd person in the line up so yeah, that's another thing). Yeah, she did seem fine. It was the moment he died she coughed up blood. That's probably why she died so quick; she lost her will. Aw, that is sweet. <3

Yeah, Nobu was an obvious shipper of Caesar/Ichi which is surprising to say the least as I thought he wasn't one to care about that. XD Also that's another burn for Mitsu... his bf shipped the one he loved with another guy. XD I guess Nobu just cared more about his sister and her happiness. And Caesar was the guy she loved, but also he would do anything for her. He was perfect for her to say the least. And that right there made me like Nobu more and am more interested in what he does. I want to see how he reacts to this now.

NiteBloomingRoseJun 4, 2014 1:26 AM

Jun 4, 2014 1:38 AM

#157

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HowTragic said:
Would someone fucking wreck Jeanne already? I fucking swear, she's been the most useless character in this entire season. She picks the damn wrong cards, kills people. Lets her emotion overtake her judgment, nearly kills Nobunaga while still unable to save the people. And now, 21 episodes later, she still hasn't got a fucking clue what she's doing. Couldn't we just have left her in the torturing chamber like 4 episodes ago? Redefining incompetence on a structural level.

And that sub-par tragic end. Caesar's casual "fuck you bitch, stabbing me and shit" counterattack after being impaled, hysterical. He got up and kifed her like it was the most natural thing to do after being stabbed. I'm not at all sad that Ichihime kicked the bucket. You take what you have for granted and this is the result. Idealist hoe got what she deserved, but now it time for some vengeance and serious wreckage next episode. Time for Mitsuhide to cast away his humanity and wreck havoc like the demon he is.

Yeah Caesar and Ichi got what they deserved- Both obtaining their True happiness and dying with their beloved

As for Mitsu and co, their suffering is just beginning

NiteBloomingRose said:

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of happening. And afraid Mitsu would be brainwashed by Arthur and Ichi gets him back right at the end (there's a theory the historical Mitsu survived so...) Fortunately that did not happen.

But yeah, Caesar is not. And that's one reason I like him! He turns all the tropes on their heads! He's just awesome like that. But seriously, that was so surprising how he got that power up and beat them. I don't think I ever saw that happen before.

I was surprised Ichi lived longer myself (well, she was the 3rd person in the line up so yeah, that's another thing). Yeah, she did seem fine. It was the moment he died she coughed up blood. That's probably why she died so quick; she lost her will. Aw, that is sweet. <3

Yeah, Nobu was an obvious shipper of Caesar/Ichi which is surprising to say the least as I thought he wasn't one to care about that. XD Also that's another burn for Mitsu... his bf shipped the one he loved with another guy. XD I guess Nobu just cared more about his sister and her happiness. And Caesar was the guy she loved, but also he would do anything for her. He was perfect for her to say the least. And that right there made me like Nobu more and am more interested in what he does. I want to see how he reacts to this now.

Yeah well, Nobu is alot more perceptive than people give him credit for, he realized that caesar was controlled from the beginning (only reason he kept it a secret from everyone that he knew caesar was brainwashed was to keep us in suspense since we didnt know until the end whether caesar was being brainwashed or whether he really believed in arthurs crazy equal love world)

Well Nobu knows caesar is strong (after all he beat the crap out of them all in ep 11) and can protect Ichi, and now he knows he truly loves his sister, and at the end when he was smiling he can see that his sister loves him too, so he was genuinely happy for both of them i guess... for about 5 seconds anyway..

I think Nobu will be pissed, he lost an important ally and his sister, its time for them to start counterattacking lol.. ofc theres the small matter of mitsu and his oni mask to deal with next ep

Jun 4, 2014 1:56 AM

#158

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jfs said:

Yeah well, Nobu is alot more perceptive than people give him credit for, he realized that caesar was controlled from the beginning (only reason he kept it a secret from everyone that he knew caesar was brainwashed was to keep us in suspense since we didnt know until the end whether caesar was being brainwashed or whether he really believed in arthurs crazy equal love world)

Well Nobu knows caesar is strong (after all he beat the crap out of them all in ep 11) and can protect Ichi, and now he knows he truly loves his sister, and at the end when he was smiling he can see that his sister loves him too, so he was genuinely happy for both of them i guess... for about 5 seconds anyway..

I think Nobu will be pissed, he lost an important ally and his sister, its time for them to start counterattacking lol.. ofc theres the small matter of mitsu and his oni mask to deal with next ep

Nobu definitely is. I think he realized the moment he saw Caesar (that's exactly the reason. XD)

Indeed. Yeah, for 5 seconds... Seriously, couldn't it have been longer? >.<

An important ally that was his brother-in-law, so he was family too. And I think their deaths will hit him harder than his father's, especially Ichi's with as close as they were. It really is time for that! Haha Oh, that small matter? Not like that is life threatening or anything....

Jun 4, 2014 3:19 AM

#159

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i love how Nobu was also happy seeing his sister and brother-in-law reunited for those 5 seconds. I'm curious how he handles the funeral compared to his fathers. I'm also wondering what the three ninja girls are gonna in the coming episodes. It looks to me like their loyalty lies with Mitsu. Will they help him with his betrayal?

Jun 4, 2014 3:24 AM

#160

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Honestly, now that caesar x ichi is official and they are dead, nothing is especially important to me anymore...

Bodomschild said:
i love how Nobu was also happy seeing his sister and brother-in-law reunited for those 5 seconds. I'm curious how he handles the funeral compared to his fathers. I'm also wondering what the three ninja girls are gonna in the coming episodes. It looks to me like their loyalty lies with Mitsu. Will they help him with his betrayal?

Ninja girls will have a foursome with mitsu to comfort him after ichi chose caesar

Jun 4, 2014 7:50 AM

#161

Sunakko-ch4n

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Aaah i liked Caesar-dono...he was a fool really...another fool...hahah...he put himself in front of the sword to protect Ichihime...that´s love...they die together<3

Mitsu! is angry with Nobu now.....,i´m 99%sure that his death is near....and Jeanne...if you love Nobu you have to have faith on him!!!!

the fool Nobu is the one that follows his own way...
he has no doubts of what he is,...call it whatever,HE IS TRUE WITH HIMSELF AND THE OTHERS ....
nobu! nobu ! nobu!! go!!!!! what are you going do with Jeanne now??
Jeanne is another fool..very confused...Himiko really loves Nobu ....and i was waiting her to die...Lol
fail!! fail!! fail! Jeanne you did it WRONG!!! Mitsu you are WRONG too!

Jun 4, 2014 10:10 AM

#162

removed-user

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Man jesus fucking christ Caesae and Ichi died finally they we're gettibg pretty annoying, the next episode looks interestkng

removed-userJun 4, 2014 10:36 AM

Jun 4, 2014 10:57 AM

#163

AntonyRedgrave

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I'm reading through the comments:
http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bill-Hader-Popcorn-reaction-Gif-On-The-Daily-Show.gif

Jun 4, 2014 11:18 AM

#164

Botato

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AntonyRedgrave said:
I'm reading through the comments:
http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bill-Hader-Popcorn-reaction-Gif-On-The-Daily-Show.gif

I just went 'fuck this shit.'
Since when did this series have these long discussions? I leave for a while and suddenly WALLS OF TEXT!!
Too lazy to read them and join the discussion, which makes me sad :(

Jun 4, 2014 11:27 AM

#165

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Botato said:

AntonyRedgrave said:
I'm reading through the comments:
http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bill-Hader-Popcorn-reaction-Gif-On-The-Daily-Show.gif

I just went 'fuck this shit.'
Since when did this series have these long discussions? I leave for a while and suddenly WALLS OF TEXT!!
Too lazy to read them and join the discussion, which makes me sad :(

Jesus its 70% Caesar vs Mitsuhide with long ass meaningless text

removed-userJun 4, 2014 11:32 AM

Jun 4, 2014 11:51 AM

#166

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jfs said:
Honestly, now that caesar x ichi is official and they are dead, nothing is especially important to me anymore...

Bodomschild said:
i love how Nobu was also happy seeing his sister and brother-in-law reunited for those 5 seconds. I'm curious how he handles the funeral compared to his fathers. I'm also wondering what the three ninja girls are gonna in the coming episodes. It looks to me like their loyalty lies with Mitsu. Will they help him with his betrayal?

Ninja girls will have a foursome with mitsu to comfort him after ichi chose caesar

Nothing it for me either, except to see how Cesare will die painfully!

I'm curious about how he does too. But I don't think he will do what he did there as he was trying to bait out his enemies.

Oh, so Mitsu is the one who gets the harem. XD Caesar, who was a lady killer/womanizer, loves only one girl. While the guy who obviously have hardly been around women gets a harem. Legit. XD

Jun 4, 2014 12:03 PM

#167

Botato

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Holybum said:

Botato said:

AntonyRedgrave said:
I'm reading through the comments:
http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bill-Hader-Popcorn-reaction-Gif-On-The-Daily-Show.gif

I just went 'fuck this shit.'
Since when did this series have these long discussions? I leave for a while and suddenly WALLS OF TEXT!!
Too lazy to read them and join the discussion, which makes me sad :(

Jesus its 70% Caesar vs Mitsuhide with long ass meaningless text

Yeah ok but still ._.

Jun 4, 2014 4:13 PM

#168

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NiteBloomingRose said:

Nothing it for me either, except to see how Cesare will die painfully!

I'm curious about how he does too. But I don't think he will do what he did there as he was trying to bait out his enemies.

Oh, so Mitsu is the one who gets the harem. XD Caesar, who was a lady killer/womanizer, loves only one girl. While the guy who obviously have hardly been around women gets a harem. Legit. XD

This series is actually not that bad if you stop trying to make sense of it and just enjoy the ride...

I think he wont act like in his fathers, he will just be solemn

I was kidding, Mitsu will be a forever virgin, the ninja girls are loyal to him, the 3 of them are after all under the group called the 'Akechi corps' so yea they will probably help him

Jun 4, 2014 4:19 PM

#169

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jfs said:

NiteBloomingRose said:

Nothing it for me either, except to see how Cesare will die painfully!

I'm curious about how he does too. But I don't think he will do what he did there as he was trying to bait out his enemies.

Oh, so Mitsu is the one who gets the harem. XD Caesar, who was a lady killer/womanizer, loves only one girl. While the guy who obviously have hardly been around women gets a harem. Legit. XD

This series is actually not that bad if you stop trying to make sense of it and just enjoy the ride...

I think he wont act like in his fathers, he will just be solemn

I was kidding, Mitsu will be a forever virgin, the ninja girls are loyal to him, the 3 of them are after all under the group called the 'Akechi corps' so yea they will probably help him

Yeah, it is really. And I will always like that 1st ep a lot. That "falling star". XD

I do too.

I was kidding as well there. Couldn't help it. XD Yeah, Mitsu will (even though historical him had children). They will definitely help him as yeah, they're loyal to him. They are the only ones who know all he has done after all.

Jun 4, 2014 8:05 PM

#170

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Well cant expect this show to follow history..

BTW does anyone else notice in the start of the ep, Hideyoshis mecha Goku was there beside nobu and jeannes mech?? IIRC that mech was ripped and torn apart beyond recognition and exploded.. how is it still there?

And wasnt jeanne supposed to have gotten a powerup in ep 19? why does she keep getting swatted aside like a fly (first by alexander then by nobu)

Its like a normal 2ch discussion that i see every week...

Person 1: So was jeanne finally useful this week?
Person 2: Maybe next week....

Jun 4, 2014 8:29 PM

#171

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jfs said:
Well cant expect this show to follow history..

BTW does anyone else notice in the start of the ep, Hideyoshis mecha Goku was there beside nobu and jeannes mech?? IIRC that mech was ripped and torn apart beyond recognition and exploded.. how is it still there?

And wasnt jeanne supposed to have gotten a powerup in ep 19? why does she keep getting swatted aside like a fly (first by alexander then by nobu)

Its like a normal 2ch discussion that i see every week...

Person 1: So was jeanne finally useful this week?
Person 2: Maybe next week....

That's for sure. Ichi's daughters are in it even though they aren't hers. XD

I just rewatched and yeah it was... Who knows how. Da Vinci is just an awesome repairman is all. XD

Yes, she was. Because the focus is Nobu! Eh, seriously, Jeanne doesn't do much and I don't expect her to until maybe the last moment.

LOL XD

Jun 5, 2014 12:34 AM

#172

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Well one thing I barely noticed is that one of those two guys that supported Nobukatsu as Oda clan leader was Ichi's historical 2nd husband. I'm hoping the three ninja girls choose to support Nobu instead of Mitsu though.

I can see why Himiko is more popular compared too useless Jeanne. Seriously they shouldn't have her doubting Nobu every other episode.

Like you said my only interest in this show after this episode is the funeral scene, and whatever ending Kawamori has planned.

Jun 5, 2014 1:37 AM

#173

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Bodomschild said:
Well one thing I barely noticed is that one of those two guys that supported Nobukatsu as Oda clan leader was Ichi's historical 2nd husband. I'm hoping the three ninja girls choose to support Nobu instead of Mitsu though.

I can see why Himiko is more popular compared too useless Jeanne. Seriously they shouldn't have her doubting Nobu every other episode.

Like you said my only interest in this show after this episode is the funeral scene, and whatever ending Kawamori has planned.

Yeah but those 2 are totally unimportant characters in this anime lol.. anyway i wouldnt read too much into it.. Its likely that Ichihime is a combination of 2 historical figures (Oichi, nobus sister, and Nouhime, nobus historical wife), Note that Nouhime was rumored to be mitsuhides childhood friend historically, and this might explain the totally unhistorical romance, so Ichihime fullfilled 2 roles- the one of mitsus childhood friend and the one of nobus sister who got married off in an arranged marriage, but idk historical accuracy isnt high on this animes priorities list so yeah..

It would be hilarious if Mitsu is betrayed by his ninja bitches, but i doubt it , they seem loyal to him...

Also those ninja girls were named after ichis historical daughters with her 1st husband, but its not like they are her daughters in the anime so its all really weird if you try to connect it with history

jfsJun 5, 2014 1:40 AM

Jun 5, 2014 2:15 AM

#174

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jfs said:

Bodomschild said:
Well one thing I barely noticed is that one of those two guys that supported Nobukatsu as Oda clan leader was Ichi's historical 2nd husband. I'm hoping the three ninja girls choose to support Nobu instead of Mitsu though.

I can see why Himiko is more popular compared too useless Jeanne. Seriously they shouldn't have her doubting Nobu every other episode.

Like you said my only interest in this show after this episode is the funeral scene, and whatever ending Kawamori has planned.

Yeah but those 2 are totally unimportant characters in this anime lol.. anyway i wouldnt read too much into it.. Its likely that Ichihime is a combination of 2 historical figures (Oichi, nobus sister, and Nouhime, nobus historical wife), Note that Nouhime was rumored to be mitsuhides childhood friend historically, and this might explain the totally unhistorical romance, so Ichihime fullfilled 2 roles- the one of mitsus childhood friend and the one of nobus sister who got married off in an arranged marriage, but idk historical accuracy isnt high on this animes priorities list so yeah..

It would be hilarious if Mitsu is betrayed by his ninja bitches, but i doubt it , they seem loyal to him...

Also those ninja girls were named after ichis historical daughters with her 1st husband, but its not like they are her daughters in the anime so its all really weird if you try to connect it with history

And Chacha is the monkey's historical 2nd wife and I don't think that's going to happen. XD Well, Ichi being Nouhime too would explain why she was the reason Nobu disguised Jeanne as a man. XD Yeah, historical accuracy isn't. And I'm pretty sure Caesar is based more off of his Celtic legends of him (the Welsh Triads that have King Arthur in it too, which would perhaps be one reason Caesar was chosen for his role). Apparently in that the reason he invaded Britain was over a woman named Flur (it was stated that his love for her was costly... and that would make Ichi be like Flur too). So in it he does sound like a warrior of love (though I admit to not knowing that much of historical Caesar XD).

One of my main problems I've had with this anime is how they portray Jeanne... nothing like how she was historically.

Haha, I couldn't imagine Mitsu's reaction if the ninja girls did betray him. XD No, I can't see that happening either.

Haha, yeah. XD Though I do believe this series goes by more of the myths and legends actually (throw history out the window XD). In legend Caesar did have a very deadly sword he fought with.

Jun 5, 2014 3:01 AM

#175

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NiteBloomingRose said:

One of my main problems I've had with this anime is how they portray Jeanne... nothing like how she was historically.

Haha, I couldn't imagine Mitsu's reaction if the ninja girls did betray him. XD No, I can't see that happening either.

Haha, yeah. XD Though I do believe this series goes by more of the myths and legends actually (throw history out the window XD). In legend Caesar did have a very deadly sword he fought with.

Some things are quite accurate though.. Like how historically jeanne goes into battle with a banner and her mechas weapon looks like a banner..

Also Gaius julius caesar died as he lived historically- as a conqueror ; Veni, Vidi, Vici

The last thing he conquered was Ichihimes heart
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/81/1401812509293.jpg

Also is it just me or those who are charmed by Caesar ends up dying? And im talking about Machiavelli dying in the same episode..

In ep 17 she seems like she is lusting after caesar http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/81/1401813601000.jpg

Jun 5, 2014 10:25 AM

#176

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I kept thinking to my self that they would show a Saru x Chacha scene as a nod to history, but alas the only character's those three interact with are Ichi and Mitsu.

They really should have shown us some of Caesar's past. I want more Caesar! It also seemed like he and Hanibal had something going on. Or was it just me?

Also, It looks like Ichihime is gonna be appearing in the final stage play. As a spirit I presume. Still stage play is so Mitsu x Ichi so don't really care.

BodomschildJun 5, 2014 10:52 AM

Jun 5, 2014 10:52 AM

#177

LunatikPriest

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jfs said:

Its like a normal 2ch discussion that i see every week...

Person 1: So was jeanne finally useful this week?
Person 2: Maybe next week....

Well Jeanne was quite the useful character in the first part of the show :
During all the Caesar VS Nobu fights, Jeanne had to intervene to save Nobunaga from Caesar's deadly attack.
During one of the Shingen VS Nobu fight, she had to intervene to help Nobunaga winning over Shingen. Indeed, if it were not for Jeanne, Shingen would have successfully destroy the Oda Clan.

If I remember well, Jeanne saved Nobunaga 4 times (and Nobunaga saved her 4 times too).

However, the fact that Jeanne does not do anything during the second part of the show is disappointing..

Jun 5, 2014 11:28 AM

#178

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jfs said:

Some things are quite accurate though.. Like how historically jeanne goes into battle with a banner and her mechas weapon looks like a banner..

Also Gaius julius caesar died as he lived historically- as a conqueror ; Veni, Vidi, Vici

The last thing he conquered was Ichihimes heart
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/81/1401812509293.jpg

Also is it just me or those who are charmed by Caesar ends up dying? And im talking about Machiavelli dying in the same episode..

In ep 17 she seems like she is lusting after caesar http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/81/1401813601000.jpg

Haha, yeah, some things are historical.

LOL, that he did. He conquered the most important thing. ;)

And LOL Mitsu is there suffering. XD (do I enjoy Mitsu suffering too much? Really that's one of the first things I notice. XD)

Yeah, I kinda noticed that too.

It does! I was wondering why she was smiling like that. I even started wondering if she was the woman Caesar fought over because of that (what with her having that eye thing on the same side too).

Bodomschild said:
I kept thinking to my self that they would show a Saru x Chacha scene as a nod to history, but alas the only character's those three interact with are Ichi and Mitsu.

They really should have shown us some of Caesar's past. I want more Caesar! It also seemed like he and Hanibal had something going on. Or was it just me?

Also, It looks like Ichihime is gonna be appearing in the final stage play. As a spirit I presume. Still stage play is so Mitsu x Ichi so don't really care.

I did too. XD

They really should have; I was disappointed they didn't. I thought the same too when she yelled at him. But how Caesar was it wouldn't be surprising he did in the past. Who knows, maybe he fought Charlemagne over her, idk. All I know is he fought over some woman and you got 2 on the Round Table...

Yeah, don't really care because of that. XD

NiteBloomingRoseJun 5, 2014 11:59 AM

Jun 5, 2014 3:02 PM

#179

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Lunatik said:

Well Jeanne was quite the useful character in the first part of the show :
During all the Caesar VS Nobu fights, Jeanne had to intervene to save Nobunaga from Caesar's deadly attack.
During one of the Shingen VS Nobu fight, she had to intervene to help Nobunaga winning over Shingen. Indeed, if it were not for Jeanne, Shingen would have successfully destroy the Oda Clan.

If I remember well, Jeanne saved Nobunaga 4 times (and Nobunaga saved her 4 times too).

However, the fact that Jeanne does not do anything during the second part of the show is disappointing..

Yeah well.. the thing is since ep 14 when she almost got nobu killed and failed to get the hostages her usefulness has amounted to fanservice and getting licked in the legs and then gang totured..

And no.. im quite sure hannibal isnt caesars type... and she seems to hate him and wants him executed, i doubt it, Caesar seems to like really beautiful innocent pure and virtuous maidens (cesare implies this last ep) , considering the 2 women in the round table, im sure his standards are a little higher (though he is quite a slut before he met ichi)

That stage play has a heavily trimmed down cast, with arthur and basically all of the round table except caesar not in the cast.. This makes it hard to develop characters like caesar whose primary development in romance comes from him betraying said group of characters that didnt even appear in the play to prove his love and ended up being brainwashed after rescuing mitsu to set up their tragic romance, so imo the play is a greatly simplified version of the anime, they make caesar an almost complete villain while mitsu is made symphatetic

IIRC some characters like shingen were 'mentioned' in narration, but it would be awkward to do this for about 20 characters that should have appeared

Jun 5, 2014 4:14 PM

#180

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How have japanese fans reacted to this episode Jfs? I tried reading a blog post Minorin (Ichi's VA) did about the Character song and it looked to me like most of the comments were pro Mitsu. Noted I used google translate.

Jun 5, 2014 4:25 PM

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Bodomschild said:
How have japanese fans reacted to this episode Jfs? I tried reading a blog post Minorin (Ichi's VA) did about the Character song and it looked to me like most of the comments were pro Mitsu. Noted I used google translate.

Ichis VA performs in the play, and most of the commenters there were always following her and generally they are biased towards the play where ichi x mitsu actually makes sense, and they were hoping anime ichi gets a good end with mitsu (ofc with how anime caesar was, Mitsu never stood a chance), The first part of the play is done a couple of weeks before the anime aired (but note that the anime finishes about 1 month earlier than the play), so most people who watched the play (and followed Ichis VA) generally already bought into the ichi mitsu thing,so they were biased, funnily enough, some of the comments had them saying 'caesar is pretty good for ichi too, since he loves her and seems to be willing to do anything for her'

But in the 2ch threads which i generally followed, most people likes to taunt or laugh at mitsu...
Remember that Mitsus VA is also the va for Bizon, the legendary buddy complex villain that went back in time to create an empire to kill the guy who NTR-ED him,

Well in most 2ch threads, each time caesar NTRs mitsu (Or each time Mitsu gets jelly/angsty over Ichi really) , they will post stuff like

CONNNNEEEECTTTTTIIIIIIIIIIING ICHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII (Im sure you know what this is referring to)

This is actually quite a popular phrase, almost episode since ep 13 features at least a dozen of these in each thread

jfsJun 5, 2014 4:37 PM

Jun 5, 2014 4:33 PM

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That's true, Hannibal does seem to hate him. Oh yeah, Cesare did say that (I was thinking at the time about how much Cesare knows Caesar XD), so yeah, probably not. Yeah, they probably are (and that was the reason I thought of that). It might have been a Cleopatra refer as she's famous for being his lover. Or just to show how Caesar was.

What, no Arthur or Alexander? XD Yeah, with only Caesar... yeah, they wouldn't have anybody for an antagonist. XD Sounds like it is. Curious, did Caesar and Ichi get married or just him liking her?

Oh, he only gets mentioned? XD I was wondering why in the anime they even have some of the charas they do. Well, mainly just that Chandragupta. Did they really need him?

Jun 5, 2014 4:42 PM

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NiteBloomingRose said:
That's true, Hannibal does seem to hate him. Oh yeah, Cesare did say that (I was thinking at the time about how much Cesare knows Caesar XD), so yeah, probably not. Yeah, they probably are (and that was the reason I thought of that). It might have been a Cleopatra refer as she's famous for being his lover. Or just to show how Caesar was.

What, no Arthur or Alexander? XD Yeah, with only Caesar... yeah, they wouldn't have anybody for an antagonist. XD Sounds like it is. Curious, did Caesar and Ichi get married or just him liking her?

Oh, he only gets mentioned? XD I was wondering why in the anime they even have some of the charas they do. Well, mainly just that Chandragupta. Did they really need him?

I would like an OVA to show caesars past and the story of his mask and the woman he fought over, but i doubt we will ever see it

Not sure, but i think they talked about arranged marriage, but note that from last episode, it seemed that Ichi has developed feelings for caesar since ep 14, and it only got stronger as she found out what he did for her and how much he changed, since by the start of ep 21 (or 18 really) she is clearly already fallen in love with him

Stage play caesar never did all those nice things for ichi, thats all im sure about..

Also note that the anime has the full set of characters and far richer plot , while the stage play has very vew (only about 10) credited actors, so for me the play is likely just a toned-down and cut version of the anime to fit into the premise of a live play which has obvious limitations

Jun 5, 2014 4:46 PM

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jfs said:

Bodomschild said:
How have japanese fans reacted to this episode Jfs? I tried reading a blog post Minorin (Ichi's VA) did about the Character song and it looked to me like most of the comments were pro Mitsu. Noted I used google translate.

Ichis VA performs in the play, and most of the commenters there were always following her and generally they are biased towards the play where ichi x mitsu actually makes sense, and they were hoping anime ichi gets a good end with mitsu (ofc with how anime caesar was, Mitsu never stood a chance), The first part of the play is done a couple of weeks before the anime aired (but note that the anime finishes about 1 month earlier than the play), so most people who watched the play (and followed Ichis VA) generally already bought into the ichi mitsu thing,so they were biased, funnily enough, some of the comments had them saying 'caesar is pretty good for ichi too, since he loves her and seems to be willing to do anything for her'

But in the 2ch threads which i generally followed, most people likes to taunt or laugh at mitsu...
Remember that Mitsus VA is also the va for Bizon, the legendary buddy complex villain that went back in time to create an empire to kill the guy who NTR-ED him,

Well in most 2ch threads, each time caesar NTRs mitsu (Or each time Mitsu gets jelly/angsty over Ichi really) , they will post stuff like

CONNNNEEEECTTTTTIIIIIIIIIIING ICHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII (Im sure you know what this is referring to)

This is actually quite a popular phrase, almost episode since ep 13 features at least a dozen of these in each thread

That's very interesting.

Wait, wait, wait, Mitsu's VA voiced someone like THAT!? LOLOLOL, that is HILARIOUS! XD Hahaha, oh my! That's, just wow. XD
And to top it off, Sakurai voiced someone in Soredemo who feelings for a woman went unrequited and she loved his brother. XD

Oh gosh! That's just- Seriously. LOL

That is hilarious. XD

I would so like an OVA too, but yeah doubt it too.

Ah, I see. Yeah, indeed, since ep 14 on. I would say ep 18, she has.

Ok.

I see, so pretty much the stage play is kinda like a fanservice thing really, I guess.

Jun 5, 2014 6:29 PM

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The play must really be drastically different than I thought. Mitsu doesn't seem to be a douche in the play I'm guessing. With those stupid hair flips he does in the anime. He also hasn't killed Nobukatsu yet. I can see why he would have alot of fans on her blog now.

I too was hoping the series would sell well to get an ova or something about Caesar's history. He's a mystery lol...

I personally think Ichi fell in LOVE with Caesar episode 21. From episode 14-20 I think her affection and worry for him grew to that point in 21 where she realises " I love him". I can't make up my mind though of where this happens considering her state of mind was all over the place.

Jun 5, 2014 7:09 PM

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Bodomschild said:
The play must really be drastically different than I thought. Mitsu doesn't seem to be a douche in the play I'm guessing. With those stupid hair flips he does in the anime. He also hasn't killed Nobukatsu yet. I can see why he would have alot of fans on her blog now.

I too was hoping the series would sell well to get an ova or something about Caesar's history. He's a mystery lol...

I personally think Ichi fell in LOVE with Caesar episode 21. From episode 14-20 I think her affection and worry for him grew to that point in 21 where she realises " I love him". I can't make up my mind though of where this happens considering her state of mind was all over the place.

Yeah like i said, the characters in the play were severely cut down (Arthur the main villain doesnt even have a credited appearance/voice), so for me the play is based on the anime really (since the play is so incomplete in terms of relevant characters), and the plot of the play is adapted to suit the lack of a complete cast of characters...

IDK but im sure when both caesar and mitsu didnt return and only mitsu returned safely, she already realised she has some feelings for him... just look at this image

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/13/1401136014395.jpg

Those are the eyes of a woman who can no longer be satisfied with Mitsuhide
(Well that should be the eyes of any woman really)

But as i said, at the start of ep 21, when caesar didnt seem to care about her much anymore, she was on the brink of crying there, and then she risked her life just to visit him to find out 'what he desires', im pretty sure she already fell for him then, hence her being very upset that he seemed to forget all about her to the point that she went to enemy territory to talk to him

Not to mention when she thought the old caesar was gone forever she got angry and slapped him (this is really quite significant since she never shown anger before in the show, as i said, caesar really brings out different emotions in her that she never show for other people) and she sounded quite heartbroken and cried, so its obvious she has fallen for the ep 14 caesar by that time.. and this is even more obvious at the end

Jun 5, 2014 7:41 PM

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Yeah, the stage play is missing out on alot of characters, but it also seems to give more backstory to Saru and Mitsu. I read that the play shows you how Saru first met Nobu, and it also features Kagome (ninja chick from ep 19). I guess the play has it's own pros and cons.

It does kind of bother me that she says that. I mean she only knew him for a few days? Still it's funny how she changed from ep 13 where she's like "This is strictly for the good of the clan" to ep 21 where she just completely ignores Mitsu in her last seconds of life.

I think they are setting up Mitsu to betray Nobu only to have him redeem himself in the end. I don't know how to feel about this honestly. I'm so biased towards Ichi x Caesar that I don't give it a thought, but Mitsu is probably the most tragic character in this show.

Jun 5, 2014 8:05 PM

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Bodomschild said:
Yeah, the stage play is missing out on alot of characters, but it also seems to give more backstory to Saru and Mitsu. I read that the play shows you how Saru first met Nobu, and it also features Kagome (ninja chick from ep 19). I guess the play has it's own pros and cons.

It does kind of bother me that she says that. I mean she only knew him for a few days? Still it's funny how she changed from ep 13 where she's like "This is strictly for the good of the clan" to ep 21 where she just completely ignores Mitsu in her last seconds of life.

I think they are setting up Mitsu to betray Nobu only to have him redeem himself in the end. I don't know how to feel about this honestly. I'm so biased towards Ichi x Caesar that I don't give it a thought, but Mitsu is probably the most tragic character in this show.

Yeah well, the main plot of the story though should be the war between east and the west, and its kinda hard to do that when you only have 1 guy from arthurs side as a proper character, that may be why they are actually focusing more on less important stuff like that

Yeah ep 13 she was like shes so sad and heartbroken she has to leave mitsu..

I guess she thought she was going off with a cruel man who wants to possess her and that she will be unhappy.. but she quickly found out that 'wow this guy is so handsome and he is genuinely nice' and then he went and saved her entire clan, her bro, and even poor Mitsu all to keep her happy, so yeah its all quite sudden but i guess she only knew mitsu and saru all her life so when probably caesar came in she found out how superior he is compared to her previous 'options'

Meh i would have alot more symphaty for mitsu is he truly just wants nobu to succeed, but as ep 17 pretty much tells us, even Nobunagas ambition and helping him is all motivated by his daddy thing, so killing nobukatsu is also about his daddy, not because he genuinely wants nobu to rule the world.. so yeah, and he looks like a fag and those hairflips doesnt help either

Jun 5, 2014 8:24 PM

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Caesar will probably remain forever a mystery sadly.

Arthur just gets talked about? LOL XD Yeah, sounds like the play is a fast summary with a few twists to compensate.

I agree, Ichi there already has some feelings in ep 18. Those eyes says it all.

(LOL, how true. XD)

There's no way Ichi would have gone to enemy territory if she hadn't already fallen for him. No reason to endanger your own life so for someone you don't love.

That is significant with how Ichi got angry. She indeed only shows more emotions and more intense ones with Caesar. And that's one reason I like the pairing. There would be no reason for her crying unless she loved him. And in that same scene Caesar says Mitsu loves her and she doesn't bat an eye. XD

It's hilarious how she ignores Mitsu! XD And all Mitsu can is watch in pain. I must say one reason I wish Caesar/Ichi kissed was to see Mitsu's reaction. XD

Wow, they have one character from the West in the play, what an army. XD Caesar is a one man army. LOL

Yeah, after all Caesar did for Ichi, I can't imagine her not falling for him. Well, when you got a choice between "hair flip" boy and a "perverted monkey", I would choose hair flip. XD Really it doesn't take much to be superior to those options. LOL

I don't really get why Mitsu's daddy issues are so bad. Yeah, that was bad, but wasn't that like honorable suicide for them? So, I don't understand how Mitsu is affected... I guess it has to do with the Akechi clan falling and Mitsu think his father didn't have to do that?

Jun 5, 2014 8:58 PM

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In a way Mitsu is lucky both Ichi and caesar died..

Imagine if they survived and caesar and ichi shacks up together in her room and do XXX and XXX every night (now that they are both married and in love they will doing it like rabbits for sure) and Mitsu might hear them through the walls/floors or whatever LOL, what an NTR that would be

Would be the icing on the cake to the sorry life of Mitsuhide

Jun 5, 2014 9:36 PM

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jfs said:
In a way Mitsu is lucky both Ichi and caesar died..

Imagine if they survived and caesar and ichi shacks up together in her room and do XXX and XXX every night (now that they are both married and in love they will doing it like rabbits for sure) and Mitsu might hear them through the walls/floors or whatever LOL, what an NTR that would be

Would be the icing on the cake to the sorry life of Mitsuhide

LOL, he is or his suffering would have been greater. XD

Oh, you know Caesar would have been in Ichi's room, he wouldn't be in some other. They wouldn't have it any other way (especially Caesar). LOL (Oh, definitely be doing it like rabbits with Caesar's reputation. XD) There's a HUGE chance Mitsu would hear with how their walls are made. LOL

And then when they have children it would be the powdered sugar on the cake for Mitsu. XD

Jun 5, 2014 10:12 PM

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How do we know they haven't done it already lol...remember they had that their wedding night all to themselves in that room.

Jun 5, 2014 10:25 PM

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Bodomschild said:
How do we know they haven't done it already lol...remember they had that their wedding night all to themselves in that room.

While i agree based on ep 17 they might already did it (awkwardly), she wasnt in love with him yet then and they wont be in the same house? (or castle) as mitsu..

Who knows ichi might become a bad girl thanks to caesars influence and let herself be heard by him on purpose to take revenge on him rejecting her.. like.. 'here mitsu listen to what my husband is getting.. and youre not..'

Jun 5, 2014 10:29 PM

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Bodomschild said:
How do we know they haven't done it already lol...remember they had that their wedding night all to themselves in that room.

Well, I believe they might have already done it. What makes me think so is after Caesar said: "I would love to describe the softness of my woman's skin 1001 nights". So, if they didn't do it on their wedding night, it was before he left if so. They could have very well done it after he saved her clan.

Oh, gosh, I can't think of Ichi as a bad girl like that, but that would be hilarious. XD

NiteBloomingRoseJun 5, 2014 10:33 PM

Jun 5, 2014 11:14 PM

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I wonder if he had the chance to go back and say goodbye before all that business with Jeanne happened. It really makes their romance all the more tragic. They just didn't have enough time to themselves.

Jun 5, 2014 11:39 PM

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Bodomschild said:
I wonder if he had the chance to go back and say goodbye before all that business with Jeanne happened. It really makes their romance all the more tragic. They just didn't have enough time to themselves.

Probably did, after all the twins did join him on the ship, so he probably went back to pack his stuff and get ready, they might even had another day together but oh well..

Jun 5, 2014 11:59 PM

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Yeah, I doubt they went immediately as they had to get ready. This series will skip days to get to a certain event. So yeah, I believed they at least had one more day together.

Jun 6, 2014 11:57 AM

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Episode 22 preview is up on the website. It looks like everyone is having doubts about Nobu being the savior king. Except Saru and it looks like their is gonna be a Nobu x Jeanne scene.

Jun 6, 2014 12:46 PM

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I'm not surprised they're going to have the Caesar/Ichi deaths to spur on Nobu/Jeanne. It's kinda expected. Also it looks like Alexander and Cesare will be talking too. I wonder what about; I cant't see them seeing eye to eye. For some reason I think Alexander is more honorable than the likes of Cesare and some of the others. After all he didn't kill Nobu in honor of the monkey's sacrifice and he let Kenshin live.

NiteBloomingRoseJun 6, 2014 1:20 PM

Jun 6, 2014 2:58 PM

#200