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| The "deus ex machina" magical ending really didn't bother me that much, for the sole fact that that's what the entire purpose of the last two seasons have been. They've been building up, hinting at it, and setting up this ending from the beginning. They were more or less saying, "Yo, these lights. You collect them, they grant wishes." I mean hell, Yukine even blatantly explained the town mythos. There were a handful of references and explanations in the first season even. From the play, to Nagisa under the street lights in the first episode. I mean, they spent the entire series explaining it. If you needed a flow chart, you simply didn't pay enough attention imo =/ And that's fine, really. I just think people need to think twice before complaining about the ending. It really did fit well with the direction the series went and the path it took. On a rather offtopic and random note, why the hell are there two topics for this? |
BakayaroMar 13, 2009 1:57 PM
"I'd suck you~" Berri||Desu Ne? |
saxdemigod said: first: i am impressed and moved by the amount of people who have worked their asses off to learn this language second: quite possibly the happiest episode of my life. i have played the game, i have listened to the drama cd's, im a clannad fanatic, and in the end, i feel that this episode, the episode that was to wrap up the entire story (and now you all understand why the dango daikazoku song is literally the conerstone of the show) did a fantastic job. i will cherish this series for the rest of my life, bravo to kyoani for adeptly adapting the greatest love story ever told watch people deny you of your truth and start comparing CLANNAD to Toradora! ><'' |
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| ZOMG A ROLLBACK!! O_O This is actually the first anime to make me feel so scared about watching its last epsiode... but well... The ending isn't that bad... I got no comment about the light orbs granting tomoya's wish.. I guess I'm okay with it. First Season is still a lot better than the 2nd season.. Maybe because Kyou was my favourite character instead of nagisa >.> Kotomi looks a bit weird in the ending O_o The Fuko ending part is a bit too long... spanning 5mins... got a bit strained to skip it.. but all end perfectly well. Clannad still is an unbelievably good anime and it will surely remain as my favourite anime for years to come.... |
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Bladin said: First off let me say this, the Visual Novel had the same storyline as the anime, so blaming the anime for the ending is the same thing as saying "bleach sucks because aizen is the villain." despite that being the actual manga storyline as well. The anime doesn't need a flowcharter either. It's pretty easy to understand if you've paid attention to the anime AT ALL. 1. Magic and light's were present from season 1. It's to be expected to carry over. 2. The 16-21 were not "Wasted" time. He had to get his father's light, without it he wouldn't have been able to make the "wish". Since as it SAID the lights had to combine to create the miracle(learn to listen). Overall though, perfect anime, perfect music, perfect characters, perfect story, and perfect ending. I just finished the visual novel, and overall Clannad+AS is BETTER then the VN. Sure you are missing out on the individual character ends, but that doesn't really matter since the entire package is better as a storyline compared to the disjointed VN storyline. As i said before the ending is the same as the VN's ending. episode 21 where he collapses with her IS THE END OF THE VISUAL NOVEL'S BASE STORYLINE. Episode 22 is basically reloading the birth save and the true end. It's exactly how the story in the VN was meant to be taken as. clannad+as? A+ 100%, 100/100, I totally agree, I wasn't confused at all. It's the perfect ending. People just don't understand the significance of the light orbs in this anime and I think that's why people are like 'wth is going on?' |
| Key didn't just go "Surprise, it was all a dream, none of that really happened!" That's not what's going on. Read up about (or play) the VN and then you will understand. And then you will love this episode instead of hating it! Edit: There are two different storylines for the ending, and the anime melded them together, which makes it a bit confusing. But they didn't just make up some stupid dream sequence cop-out. It all has to do with the light orbs. |
mana_goddessMar 13, 2009 2:54 PM
mana_goddess said: Key didn't just go "Surprise, it was all a dream, none of that really happened!" That's not what's going on. Read up about (or play) the VN and then you will understand. And then you will love this episode instead of hating it! Agreed, all the previous episodes were significant. |
| It was a great happy ending :) I must say I didn't expect that :p episode 23 must be really nice too, looking forward to it as well ^.^ |
| (Copying over from the other thread) Key didn't just go "Surprise, it was all a dream, none of that really happened!" That's not what's going on. Read up about (or play) the VN and then you will understand. And then you will love this episode instead of hating it! Edit: There are two different storylines for the ending, and the anime melded them together, which makes it a bit confusing. But they didn't just make up some stupid dream sequence cop-out. It all has to do with the light orbs. |
| great series too bad next is the last episode of clannad for now i hope, a rollback ehh... |
| Well, it's a bit confusing, but what I get is : -Happy ending for sure -Disease is gone with that crappy slow world we don't wana watch for too long since it gets boring .... -Genki nagisa -The question remains HOW did they went in the past ? -Why is Ushio's death the trigger? Help me... |
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Ukato said: Well, it's a bit confusing, but what I get is : -Happy ending for sure -Disease is gone with that crappy slow world we don't wana watch for too long since it gets boring .... -Genki nagisa -The question remains HOW did they went in the past ? -Why is Ushio's death the trigger? Help me... Maybe this will help? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/infiltrator65a/inte%20buggat%20album/1236943573387.png Other than that, all I can say is read up about the VN. It will all make sense once you understand how the two VN endings work. |
| Thx a lot ! |
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| It clearly wasn't a dream. If you thought it was a dream, you weren't paying close enough attention to it. Everything that happened after Nagisa's death really happened. Kotomi talked about it in the first series. There's multiple worlds. I love how now after they brought Nagisa back, everyone's thinking so deeply about the anime and meaning and how realistic it was, but yet in the very first arc last season (Fuuko's arc) her spirit roamed the school and handed out starfish. To a lesser extent, even the other world was obviously mystical. These things clearly showed, as do the previous Key adaptions, that there would be a mystical element to Clannad. So, stop complaining about how it 'came out of nowhere' when it clearly did not. |
mana_goddess said: That's not what's going on. Read up about (or play) the VN and then you will understand. And then you will love this episode instead of hating it! Edit: There are two different storylines for the ending, and the anime melded them together, which makes it a bit confusing. But they didn't just make up some stupid dream sequence cop-out. It all has to do with the light orbs. I understand what's going on. I still hate it. The problem I have with it is the light orbs and the other world have been so loosely connected to the series that it's difficult to understand how the two worlds are connected and why the light orbs worked in such a specific way as to give the perfect hapy ending? It's not a stupid dream sequence, and while the plot device has been alluded to several times already, it's still very hard to swallow when it impedes so suddenly and directly on the end result. It's just too sudden and too insincere to really give the best effect. I'm glad it had a happy ending, but the supernatural elements bullying their way into this last episode, and the too-perfect happy ending feels like a sucker punch after all of the genuine happiness gained from it all. The Tomoya that grew from Nagisa's death to be Ushio's father was an amazing character, but from restarting at Ushio's birth, that Tomoya is no more. That's where it hurts. |
| My first novel, Kardia has been published! Click here to read! |
| what a suh-weet ending.. no weeping this time! Go go happy ending! Love the Nagisa + Tomoya dream like scene... This deserved a good happy ending =D Lol Fuu-chan is so cute(in her own cute way) her craziness made the whole ending more delightful to those with soft heart. Ah, Fushio at the end scene was really cute. |
| OMFGGGGG THIS WAAS THE BEEST ANIME I'VE EVER SEEN! BETTER THAN KANON 2006!!!!! BETTER THAN AIR TV!! I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THERE WOULD BE SUCH A HAPPY ENDING LIKE THIS ONE!!!!! OMG I'M SO LUCKY!!! ^^ YAY FOR TOMOYA,NAGISA AND USHIO!!!! <33 I CRIED OF HAPPINESS OMFG! CLAAAANNAAAAAAAAAAAD <33 |
IceyLeeMar 13, 2009 3:43 PM
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| what a crazy mind fuck! but it was heartwarming. the beginning was great, i almost cried at the girl and the robot. fuko was funny at the end but i didnt think it was necessary to give her that much screentime. nagisa looked so much older and prettier with her ponytail. omg at mei, she looked so delicious and fappable ;) and someone please make a gif of the short scene with tomoyo ♥_♥ |
Kyon97Mar 13, 2009 3:45 PM
Splitter said: The Tomoya that grew from Nagisa's death to be Ushio's father was an amazing character, but from restarting at Ushio's birth, that Tomoya is no more. That's where it hurts. I'm not quite sure whether or not Tomoya remembers all of what he went through before the "reload", but it is hinted at a bit with his surprise at seeing Nagisa alive and hearing her speak. So perhaps he does remember everything. Even if he does not fully remember or that memory fades over time, I like to believe that he has subconsciously internalized what he learned and how he grew through the hardships he faced. I don't think they just disappeared. I think they became a part of him, even if he doesn't consciously remember them. |
| If you mean some quick blurb about Kotomi talking about how her parents studied alternate universes and blah, blah, blah, I do remember, but then she came up with her own theory (that I don't remember) that was kind of different from her parents, showing that even they didn't know exactly either. I'm going off of the translation that was in the AQS subs. Maybe it's wrong or ambiguous in the phrasing, but Big Ushio told Robo Tomoya there was one other world and that was where all those feelings (light orbs) were coming from. Look, I have no problem with the little involvement that those orbs had to do with the story. I was fine when it was this tangential world that seemingly had no effect on what was going on plot wise. With the case of Fuuko, we knew almost from the beginning that she was a ghost and nothing really took us by surprise to completely negate much of what we saw. No one's saying that the mystical stuff came out of nowhere, but its involvement in the main story did. Now, I assume that it was all a dream/delusion because: a) that's how they presented it, with the transition of Robo Tomoya fading to white into Tomoya opening his eyes back with Nagisa, bewildered. b) it fits the Key penchant for randomly bringing everyone back to life for a happy ending under a nebulous, half-assed attempt at metaphysical ambiguity established with Kannon (Air maybe, but that ending was so disappointing, I don't care to remember). It's really not a matter of realism, it's a matter of consistency and sticking to your development. It's a slap in the face to viewers who got invested to then say "Nope, none of that stuff matters anymore." I said the same thing when they brought back Fuuko a couple of episodes ago and they treated it as if she and Tomoya never met, negating that whole arc. To those who say read the VN, I shouldn't have to do "extra credit" so I understand what's going on. This series had about 50 episodes to tell a proper story, so if they deemed certain aspects not important to explain, why should anyone then go read/play the VN? It's the job of the writers to successfully adapt a script, had that not focused on Mei and Yukine in the beginning, they could have better adapted the script. |
noteDhero said: To those who say read the VN, I shouldn't have to do "extra credit" so I understand what's going on. At least read this then: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/infiltrator65a/inte%20buggat%20album/1236943573387.png There are a million anime, movies, and books out there that you have to read / watch more than once (or read an explanation) to truly understand. You can't berate Clannad simply for being one of them. |
| hehe, nagisa is revived. the light orb grants my wish too. cant be any happier. tq for the guide link. saves me the time of rewatching the anime just too understand it better. |
| Darn it, Tomoya found and put on those tights in the other world. It was a beautiful ending. Normally, I would hate the turn of events that cause people to have a second chance with everything, especially when somebody died, but I feel as though Tomoya deserved it. I enjoyed seeing the futures of the other characters and Kotomi + Car = Win. |
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| I loved the ending, but there is one thing that puzzled me. There is clearly a connection between Nagise getting sick in the winter and Dream World Ushio having a hard time moving in the cold. The way I understood it, by Dream World Ushio destroying herself in ep. 22, Nagisa's sickness dissappears, and that's why she does not die while giving birth to Ushio. HOWEVER, the way I understood it, this is also what makes Tomoya "wake up" and call out for Nagisa, even though he know what will happen if they meet. This is PRIOR to their meeting. That would mean that, in this timeline, since there is no more Dream World Ushio, Nagisa will no longer suffer from her sickness. This clearly contradicts the popular flowchart ( http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/infiltrator65a/inte%20buggat%20album/1236943573387.png ), which claims that season 1 follows Tomoya and Nagisa's meeting in ep. 22 of AS: In season 1, Nagisa is still sick. Could anyone help me out with this? mana_goddess said: I'm not quite sure whether or not Tomoya remembers all of what he went through before the "reload", but it is hinted at a bit with his surprise at seeing Nagisa alive and hearing her speak. So perhaps he does remember everything. I think he does. At the end of ep. 21, Tomoya is unsure whether he should call out to Nagisa or not; "If I call out to her, Nagisa and I would meet, and we would go out. But maybe it's better that we don't? That we don't meet..." (Sprocket-hole subs). He clearly knows what will happen if he calls out to Nagisa. ...Unless I am completely mistaken about everything, that is. I have not finished the visual novel, and can not say anything with much authority. This is just how I interpreted what I saw throughout the anime. |
Hey_Im_JimMar 13, 2009 4:03 PM
| fucking mindfuck but it was quite enjoyable im gonna be nice and give this episode 8.5/10 mainly because of the wonderful animation + music and 8/10 for the whole anime |
Kyon97Mar 13, 2009 4:21 PM
Takeru90 said: That would mean that, in this timeline, since there is no more Dream World Ushio, Nagisa will no longer suffer from her sickness. The way I interpreted it, Nagisa still suffered from her sickness originally, but it just didn't kill her, or it was "healed" with Ushio's birth (Ushio's birth AFTER the reload, that is). But I could be completely wrong. Need to finish AS in the VN. Personally, I also believe that Tomoya remembers everything. I was just noting that it's up to interpretation, since he didn't directly state that he did. |
mana_goddess said: There are a million anime, movies, and books out there that you have to read / watch more than once (or read an explanation) to truly understand. You can't berate Clannad simply for being one of them. That doesn't mean any of them are good. It's my opinion that letting yourself get sidetracked on supporting characters at the expense of the main story is either a rookie mistake, or the result of biting off more than you can chew, without taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Clearly, since this isn't Key's first adaptation, it's the latter. I agree with Takeru, this chart isn't correct, because Nagisa is sick throughout the whole show. |
| Would've been better if the anime ended with episode 21, couldn't really swallow all the mysterious stuff =X |
| Question: Does anyone who didn't watch/play the VN understand everything that happened? Did you feel blindsided with Big Ushio's power? |
| Key is full of sick and evil sadistic people who kill characters and bring them back to toy with your emotions D; |
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skyenix said: Key is full of sick and evil sadistic people who kill characters and bring them back to toy with your emotions D; I agree. They need to provide complimentary tear buckets with their episodes. ...But it hurts so good! |
noteDhero said: Question: Does anyone who didn't watch/play the VN understand everything that happened? Did you feel blindsided with Big Ushio's power? I liked the story but never really cared about the illusionary world so didn't really try hard to understand what it was about, but now I feel as if the illusionary world has messed up the main story so I started to rewatch the eps to try and figure out what it's all about but i'm still lost here... |
| XD I loved it. Everything...somehow... Made SENSE! o.o |
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| The first 2/3 of this episode was about AS PERFECT AS THIS ANIME CAN GET yes, i loved it that much. This ending was MUCH more coherent then Kanon (2006). that being said, Fuuko's part at the end sorta hurt the overall impact. They could've made it a lot shorter. anyway, brilliant directing, brilliant emotions, effing AMAZING ANIME 10/10 |
noteDhero said: Question: Does anyone who didn't watch/play the VN understand everything that happened? Did you feel blindsided with Big Ushio's power? No, I did not. But upon further research, I came to understand it, and I understood the whole Clannad universe in a new way. Perhaps I was not paying enough attention to the hints throughout the series. I did however realize after only a couple of episodes of the first season that Tomoya and the robot where the same person. Don't really know why, I just felt they were. Regarding Tomoya remembering his life after Nagasa's death or not; I noticed this in Feka's translation of the Dream World event from eposide 22 as it is found in the game (take from the episode 21 discussion thread): In the game, it is apparently stressed that he will not remember anything. Also, she says that "this place existed that day", meaning that there is still a Dream World in the new timeline. Since Dream World Ushio IS the Dream World this would mean that there would still be a Dream World Ushio, meaning that Nagisa would still be sick. Now I'm kind of confused again. Question: do I need to put things in spoiler tags? This is the discussion thread for the lase episode, after all. |
Hey_Im_JimMar 13, 2009 4:36 PM
noteDhero said: Question: Does anyone who didn't watch/play the VN understand everything that happened? Did you feel blindsided with Big Ushio's power? I didnt understand everything and i felt pretty much blindsided. Still i kind of ignored it just focused to the fact it was the happy ending i hoped. If i am thinking hardly about it, i cant make any sense to it, but i found it still good ending to the series. You know, i stopped thinking clannad as "realistic" right after i found out Fuuko was a ghost/spirit and i just love this kind of "other world" things. Ps. Sry for bad english....too tired :P |
Takeru90 said: Regarding Tomoya remembering his life after Nagasa's death or not; I noticed this in Feka's translation of the Dream World event from eposide 22 as it is found in the game (take from the episode 21 discussion thread): In the game, it is apparently stressed that he will not remember anything. I think the "here" the girl is referring to is the Illusory World. She tells Tomoya that he will not remember being a robot and etc. But that he will remember everything else. But I could be wrong. |
| can somebody possibly explain how all the magical stuff - the mysterious girl and the robot, the dragon balls, and the mysterious world, ect.. were at all necessary? i thought they were suppose to carry some philosophical message.. am i wrong? |
| yeahh i'm happy! i really like visual key's work, hopw they will make another nicee seires as nice as clannad, kanon and air!! <3 |
Kyon97 said: can somebody possibly explain how all the magical stuff - the mysterious girl and the robot, the dragon balls, and the mysterious world, ect.. were at all necessary? i thought they were suppose to carry some philosophical message.. am i wrong? First of all there are no dragon balls in this series, lol. They are called light orbs. It kinda requires an understanding of how the visual novel works. (Note that I have not quite finished it yet, but I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is correct.) You can go through the visual novel without meeting anyone except Nagisa, and then marry her. Nagisa and Ushio will then die, and you (Tomoya) will meet the mysterious girl in the illusory world, who will tell you that you can go back in time and save nagisa by collecting light orbs. You can then replay the game, meet all the other characters and collect their light orbs. Then, once you have collected them, when Nagisa gives birth to Ushio this time she will not die. That's the basics of it, I believe. I kinda brushed over some of the more intricate explanation, but hopefully that helped. Looking at the image I posted a while back might help as well. |
| Total 180 degrees turn of action. Nagisa is alive <3 and all that things was just Tomoyas imagination. This is great show! To who Tomoya was introducing him self??? I think there will be another series of this anime. Maby "Clannad: New Story" xD |
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| what - the - fuck this was the worst thing they could've done. i mean: "oh thank god this was only an alternative world i was dreaming of" come on. i mean it was really nice seeing everyone again (really nice) but that was just unfitting for the whole series. it made all the eps from nagisa's death to now more or less useless. if she'd just died and ushio too this episode could've been so memorable. and what's with this light orbs stuff? parallel world? ok. linked minds in between worlds? ok. magicgirl says her magic spell and everyone's back alive hack? NOOOOO!!!!!!! seeing how all of nagisa's friends grew up into beautiful people: one could probably fill another season with that. and i'd love to see that cause i liked this anime a lot - but please in a world where nagisa's dead and there are no light orbs flying around reviving people. altogether i really enjoyed watching it so i'll probably rate this show a 10, maybe a 9. need to think about that... |
GuybrushMar 13, 2009 5:25 PM
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mana_goddess said: I think the "here" the girl is referring to is the Illusory World. She tells Tomoya that he will not remember being a robot and etc. But that he will remember everything else. But I could be wrong. Upon rereading the extract, I agree with you. "Here" most likely refers to the Illusionary World, and he could remember the events after Nagisa's death in the human world. Kyon97 said: can somebody possibly explain how all the magical stuff - the mysterious girl and the robot, the dragon balls, and the mysterious world, ect.. were at all necessary? i thought they were suppose to carry some philosophical message.. am i wrong? I share mana_goddess' understanding of the mysterious elements. I don't think they carry any great moral values or anything. I believe they are just added to make the story more interesting, and to give the creators more artistic freedom by not being bound to the restrictions of the human world. It's a thing Key does. I like it, because after watching/playing the stories, you learn something new and see connections which you did not see before, which again makes it so much more enjoyable to re-watch/play them. Guybrush said: if she'd just died and ushio too this episode could've been so memorable. and what's with this light orbs stuff? parallel world? ok. linked minds in between worlds? ok. magicgirl says her magic spell and everyone's back alive hack? NOOOOO!!!!!!! She is not (directly) responsible for Nagisa surviving the birth; Tomoya is. Please refer to the previous posts in this thread. Once again regarding Tomoya remembering or not: what if the meeting in episode 22 is not a physical meeting, but a thought process in Tomoya's head? Nagisa also seems to remember Tomoya during this meeting, which would not fit well if season 1 is following it. In the previous timeline, Tomoya thinks to himself that it might have been better for them not to meet. The meeting in ep. 22 could be a replacement for this thought process; now he does not regret meeting her and yells out her name, thus making the wish which makes Nagisa miraculously survive the birth. Just a thought. |
| A fantastic ending :D But the one thing that bothered me was at the end, that "Fuuko part". It was unnecessary to have Fuuko meet Ushio at the tree (excluding the transformation of the girl from the other world to Ushio) instead of showing Tomoya, Nagisa and Ushio happily. All of them spending time with each other and stuff. But overall, It's still 10/10 and on my Top 5 Favorites. |
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| great series for sure, ending kinda caught me off guard I wasn't sure what was happening but after reading all this I'll giver another go. |
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| So reading all these speculations, i can't hold myself any longer The truth behind the illusionary world and the light orbs: *phew that was long, hopefully that helps |
![http://myanimelist.net/signature/Oxu.png"](http://myanimelist.net/signature/Oxu.png"){kind=link}
kleeny said: i really like visual key's work, hopw they will make another nicee seires as nice as clannad, kanon and air!! <3 Brace for Little Busters! |
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Takeru90 said: Once again regarding Tomoya remembering or not: what if the meeting in episode 22 is not a physical meeting, but a thought process in Tomoya's head? I didn't even consider that it could have been a physical meeting. I pretty much interpreted it as a thought process / mysterious otherworldy conversation from the beginning. |
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