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| lol Kirei why so awesome? And Kariya snapped (finally). Kariya is definitely my favorite master in this war but I feel like the anime hasn't done him justice, he had not enough screen time really. The scene with Aoi in this episode was done well though, It was painful watching him like that. Is Ea next ep already? Damn my body not ready |
| episode 21 i like Rider now with this episode being King of Conquest means not destroying or degrading an opponent but to win/rule over them, that proves how strong and how confident he is, since we all know in a war/battle/fight its always been much easier to destroy or degrade the enemies the race is very well done too, that awesome moment when my jaw dropped and i only realize the jaw dropping after all the action the last part is tragic though, Karia killed his love interest due to him being blind by doubt/fear at that moment, it goes to show you how intense/extreme emotion can easily make someone have poor judgement and become a slave of their bad emotion/instinct, what i hate though is that they made that choking scene look like rape/sex it kinda ruined the moment of tragic for me a little bit since i also felt lust at that scene too |
| Kariya's life sucks. Better die than living. |
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| Dat bike + swordbeam attack = highlights for me this ep. Drama is gud too :) |
KaitoDash said: Kariya's life sucks. Better die than living. Being Lancer is suffering... Being Kiritsugu is suffering... Being Kariya is suffering... etc.. |
dio_brando86 said: I think it's easy to put two and two together and realize she didn't charge up the attack completely. Rider's assertion of her attack was not wrong at all, he could have viably rushed her with his chariot while she charged the attack with the necessary force to kill Rider or incapacitate him. SHe basically just sent out a strong enough blast to destroy the Chariot and left after realizing something was at odds. Since Rider was acting as oblivious and grandiously "dumb" as usual she wouldn't bother wasting time asking him questions he likely had no answers for (especially since it could lead to further confrontation, she didn't defeat him or even injure him much but merely took out one of his weapons) and instead kept the search.EOTW said: Man Kariya completely lost it and Somehow rider survives that excaliblast (didn't think it was possible), but I don't expect him to last much longer sadly. oh yeah and almost forgot why the hell did Saber just leave the fight with Rider instead of asking him where iri was? Did she just think he wouldn't tell her or did she somehow figure it wasn't actually Rider? She didn't actually Excaliblast him in the LN. It wasn't really that clear in the episode either but she realizes she was tricked: |
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Leon-Gun said: dio_brando86 said: I think it's easy to put two and two together and realize she didn't charge up the attack completely. Rider's assertion of her attack was not wrong at all, he could have viably rushed her with his chariot while she charged the attack with the necessary force to kill Rider or incapacitate him. SHe basically just sent out a strong enough blast to destroy the Chariot and left after realizing something was at odds. Since Rider was acting as oblivious and grandiously "dumb" as usual she wouldn't bother wasting time asking him questions he likely had no answers for (especially since it could lead to further confrontation, she didn't defeat him or even injure him much but merely took out one of his weapons) and instead kept the search.EOTW said: Man Kariya completely lost it and Somehow rider survives that excaliblast (didn't think it was possible), but I don't expect him to last much longer sadly. oh yeah and almost forgot why the hell did Saber just leave the fight with Rider instead of asking him where iri was? Did she just think he wouldn't tell her or did she somehow figure it wasn't actually Rider? She didn't actually Excaliblast him in the LN. It wasn't really that clear in the episode either but she realizes she was tricked: I mean I think they should've have put in Saber's inner monologue that mentioned that they were heading to the castle because that would make things more clear. They left out the why (why saber withdrew) so to speak and kept the what (of course the what needed to be there though). It's not really important I just think it would've added a tiny bit more clarity to the scene. Also, not sure how we're supposed to assume Rider's assumption of Saber's NP is right I mean the blast looked legit (lighting up the town). I was just surprised he was unscathed, but she held back on him huh? Was it because she didn't want to waste anymore time with Rider once she figured out something was up and she merely immobilized him? |
| The race between Saber and Rider was amazing. So I'm guessing Saber realized that Rider wasn't the one who kidnapped Irisviel. I feel bad for Kariya his life just full of suffering. I liked how Gilgamesh came in the ending of the episode, I didn't expect to see him. Overall it was a great episode, and it looks like next week will be the start of Gil and Riders battle. |
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dio_brando86 said: She didn't actually Excaliblast him in the LN. Yes, she did. If the hilt of her precious sword had still been in her hand, then she would definitely have been certain of victory; facing the golden radiance that Rider raised, there was only one thing that she could shout out, one true name. “Ex—“ In the moment that the rushing incarnation of thunder was about to trample upon Saber’s small frame— “Calibur!” Golden lightning, as if radiating countless comets, made the night as bright as day. |
| If they showed a final flashback of Kariya and Aoi connecting rather than just a flash of her smile, an already loaded scene would have been raised even more notches. I don't like how sympathetic they are making Kariya, while doing the complete opposite to Aoi. It lacks balance so my emotions feel manipulated. at this point leaving her in a vegetative state will give a much needed boost to her character. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
Eckilsax said: If they showed a final flashback of Kariya and Aoi connecting rather than just a flash of her smile, an already loaded scene would have been raised even more notches. I don't like how sympathetic they are making Kariya, while doing the complete opposite to Aoi. It lacks balance so my emotions feel manipulated. at this point leaving her in a vegetative state will give a much needed boost to her character. Because Kariya is a mite more sympathetic since he's more developed than Aoi? It's the same with Sola versus Kayneth and Lancer. She has some sympathetic points (cut down from the anime), but she's never as fleshed out to make people care. |
Thess said: Eckilsax said: If they showed a final flashback of Kariya and Aoi connecting rather than just a flash of her smile, an already loaded scene would have been raised even more notches. I don't like how sympathetic they are making Kariya, while doing the complete opposite to Aoi. It lacks balance so my emotions feel manipulated. at this point leaving her in a vegetative state will give a much needed boost to her character. Because Kariya is a mite more sympathetic since he's more developed than Aoi? It's the same with Sola versus Kayneth and Lancer. She has some sympathetic points (cut down from the anime), but she's never as fleshed out to make people care. We at least understand Sola's motivations. She never loved Kayneth, and though she knows her infatuation with Lancer is just magecraft, she doesn't care. She may not be developed but I can wrap my head around her motivations. But Aoi? What are her motivations? Who does she care about? I don't know. Not her family judging by her actions. Only way I can rationalize it is she simply snapped at some point. Did she even like Tokiomi? I can't see how she'd see past him giving her daughter to a psychopath, not to mention him being a pretentious jackass who places pride high above family. I find it a bit hard to believe she'd be that broken up over his demise compared to Kariya, a guy she knows loved her most of her life and was actually willing to fight for her family, putting mind and body far on the line. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
| Ugh. Sure. Who am i to criticize a country's culture? But I do think the mindless upholding of tradition ended in just desserts. She probably welcomed death at that point. At lease I got that feeling. It's hard for me to see any humanity in her character at all. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
| wow and this is how little Tohsaka Rin lost both of her parents. I feel for her, but Kairya has really been jerked around and tormented by Zohken, Tohsaka, and Kotomnie. Kotomine is a real bastard. I knew Rider wouldn't resort to kidnapping. Kinda wish we'd get a big battle royal with Saber/Rider vs Archer vs Berserker. |
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| Being any character except Gil and Kirei is suffering Eckilsax said: Ugh. Sure. Who am i to criticize a country's culture? But I do think the mindless upholding of tradition ended in just desserts. She probably welcomed death at that point. At lease I got that feeling. It's hard for me to see any humanity in her character at all. Although she lost her parents(well Aoi is in a vegetative state),Rin was lucky to grow up alone and not become like them.Sure most of the time she is irritating but you cant say that she doesnt care about others or Sakura. @newnar Kiritsugu at least doesnt play god or kills others just to save himself. |
ssjokgMay 27, 2012 1:23 AM
| If you find Rin irritating I can't imagine how you feel about Shirou. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
newnar said: Well I would say that anyone who knowingly joins this contest and yearns after the Grail have some intention of overruling certain things in reality. The similarity is that both think they're right in their own right. Light actually enjoys what he is doing unlike Kiritsugu. Eckilsax said: If you find Rin irritating I can't imagine how you feel about Shirou. The fact that Shirou is a mess doesnt mean everyone else is fine. |
| dafuq did I just watch... Its so kuuuuurrrrruuuuuu The race scene between Rider and Saber is simply the best animation ever in the history of anime! I applaud you, Ufotable! You've done such great, great job in this anime. With its dark story, unique characterization, and awesome graphics, Fate/Zero is bound to be the masterpiece of year 2012.....! Eckilsax said: If you find Rin irritating I can't imagine how you feel about Shirou. LOL. Reminds me of the famous phrase "People die if they are killed". At least Rin has the brains and the brawns. Shirou has neither in Fate and UBW. |
 ~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer) |
Eckilsax said: If you find Rin irritating I can't imagine how you feel about Shirou. Rin can be irritating for a completely different set of reasons than Shirou, not the least of which has to do with the fact that she inherited a portion of her father’s god-awful magus pride. A lot of the time, she goes so far out of her way to play the typical, insufferable magus that it sometimes becomes her, turning her more callous qualities up to eleven in Heaven’s Feel. The difference between her and Tokiomi is that she’s actually competent and doesn’t lay the magus attitude on quite as heavy as he does. I’d prefer to think of him as a magical Frank Castle! |
LunarMoonMay 27, 2012 1:48 AM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| I like Rin cause she's not fully a typical Magus, nor is she a typical anime girl. I find her a breath of fresh air for female characters in Fate/Stay Night. Was never really annoyed by her but I can see how her magus side can be seen as annoying. I don't mind it because her worship of her asshole father is ingrained in her since being a an impressionable child, so it's expected really. But Shirou is just so easy to hate. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
Eckilsax said: Ugh. Sure. Who am i to criticize a country's culture? But I do think the mindless upholding of tradition ended in just desserts. She probably welcomed death at that point. At lease I got that feeling. It's hard for me to see any humanity in her character at all. You can. She's a faux Yamato Nadeshiko. She tries to be strong but fails in this. She also comes across as passive-aggressive, blaming Kariya and thinking the worst about him just because she needs an outlet for her stress. Same with Kariya about Tokiomi actually, only his stress is more or less more intense after having a stroke that paralyzed half of his body and get his body consume from the inside by worms. LunarMoon said: Rin can be irritating for a completely different set of reasons than Shirou, not the least of which has to do with the fact that she inherited a portion of her father’s god-awful magus pride. A lot of the time, she goes so far out of her way to play the typical, insufferable magus that it sometimes becomes her, turning her more callous qualities up to eleven in Heaven’s Feel. The difference between her and Tokiomi is that she’s actually competent and doesn’t lay the magus attitude on quite as heavy as he does. To me Rin is a more likeable Tokiomi, while Sakura is a more likable Aoi. |
| Wow, that Kariya scene was powerful. Urobuchi Gen strikes again? Kariya... His intentions were good, but everything just went... wrong. He was blinded by anger against Tokiomi and lost to him too, he was toyed with by Zouken and Kotomine, and now this... Poor Kariya. And the worst thing is, that the whole situtation was partly his own fault too. If he hadn't abandoned the Matou family in the first place, Sakura would have never been sent over to the Matou's. |
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MasterSpark11 said: If he hadn't abandoned the Matou family in the first place, Sakura would have never been sent over to the Matou's. What, no - It isn't as if Zouken demanded this. Tokiomi wanted her to get in there. She would have shipped off who knows where if he hadn't. Aoi agreed with him. The responsible to have send Sakura there are her freakin' parents. Kariya left the family before Rin an Sakura were even born. So blaming him for that is completely stupid (Zouken tried to give him max guilt trip on purpose). What sane man would stay to become worm food and tortured by his creepy vampiric ancestor? He's in no way held accountable for the decisions of an infant child's supposed responsible legal guardians either. They didn't even contact him beforehand to ask him stuff. He found out later and was told to back off (by Aoi herself). |
ThessMay 27, 2012 2:35 AM
MasterSpark11 said: Wow, that Kariya scene was powerful. Urobuchi Gen strikes again? Kariya... His intentions were good, but everything just went... wrong. He was blinded by anger against Tokiomi and lost to him too, he was toyed with by Zouken and Kotomine, and now this... Poor Kariya. And the worst thing is, that the whole situtation was partly his own fault too. If he hadn't abandoned the Matou family in the first place, Sakura would have never been sent over to the Matou's. I think Zouken would try to adopt Sakura anyway.And Tokiomi would accept.Sakura has way more potenial from a properly trained Kariya.The Tohsaka's "blaming" Kariya shows how good are at parenting. |
zimno said: ・・・。  gununu.... 4/5 7/10 Poor Kariya being framed like that !! On the other hand Saber on her bike is awesome |
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MasterSpark11 said: Kariya... His intentions were good, but everything just went... wrong. He was blinded by anger against Tokiomi and lost to him too, he was toyed with by Zouken and Kotomine, and now this... Poor Kariya. And the worst thing is, that the whole situtation was partly his own fault too. If he hadn't abandoned the Matou family in the first place, Sakura would have never been sent over to the Matou's. Yeah, I think he just has the worst luck possible. He has a good will, but everything just never go his way. He has a psycho family, so he gave up being a mage and leave his house. There is no one left for him to love except that warm and kind woman, but she loves another man. So he had to deal with that from a distance. She has kids, and his love for her extend to them. But suddenly one of her kids had to be adopted by his own mess-up family and got the worst treatment one can imagine. He felt partially responsible for that so he tried his best to save her, even went as far as putting everything he had at stake, but his long-long-ago decision not to learn magecraft makes him inferior to others. His love rival intended to kill him too, so he sure had to fight back. And when he thought he is close to his goal, he had to be set up by the psycho Kirei whom he trusted. He didn't do anything to his love rival, but had to be misunderstood by the woman he loves, and finally, his love is tragically denied by her. His ability to remain sane up to this episode is commendable. |
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| Well, Kariya officially lost it. and more Saber on a motorcycle please. |
| One thing people need to take into account is that adapting a light novel and adapting a visual novel are two entirely different things. One is significantly more difficult than the other. Mainly pacing would be a big issue as visual novels are designed to be played in large sittings rather than read piece by piece weekly. The point is that even if Ufotable decided to animate Heavens feel I doubt it would be a rosy as people seem to believe. Still I would prefer to see them attempt it rather than Deen... |
 "I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| And I thought Kariya was raping instead of killing at the end |
| That chase scene at the beginning was awesome as fuck..... And Matou breaking down at the end of the episode was epic.... Full of win episode.... 5/5 |
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| Can't wait for the next! 5/5 |
| I nominate Kirei and Gilgamesh for best villains of the season! Setting up Tokiomi's body at the church and leaving Aoi misunderstand that Kariya killed him was freaking genius. Damn! Kariya fcking went insane! What a twist! Watching Kariya's breakdown unfold from the shadows is so unbelievably EVIL. I can still hear Kariya's scream his lungs out in my head. ^^ Rider vs Saber was nice too. xD |
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| Another crazy good episode. Rider VS Saber is the very definition of epic, and Kariya's breakdown was awesome. Ufotable's budget also amazes me. 5/5. |
| Awh here we go, All The World's Evil up next. |
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| This show is pure gold. Actually, I'd say show is good, but Kirei & Gilgamesh are the golden part of it. Pure evil, pure menace, but also most interesting part of it so far. I really can't wait to see how it all ends, well, in a way I know, since I read FSN VN, but still, this goes beyond how awesome I expected it to be. As a matter of fact, I hated Gil in FSN, found him completely unlikable and overpowered, but here, here he's the most interesting servant. |
| The race between Rider and Saber was awesome |
ernst said: 1lau said: And I thought Kariya was raping instead of killing at the end ^Same here. Ufotable made that scene unnecessarily erotic. The scene that was supposed to be rapish-like was the Berseker feeding on Kariya, if any. This is the scene in the novel: nina4life said: As a matter of fact, I hated Gil in FSN, found him completely unlikable and overpowered, but here, here he's the most interesting servant. Gilgamesh's characterization is all over the place in FSN. Gen seems to be mostly sticking to his HF personality. |
ThessMay 27, 2012 12:21 PM
| Awesome episode, the chase was awesome and it was animated very good. So the insect guy just killed the woman he loved, and he went mad. I'm really looking forward to the next episode. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
Thess said: Not at all, how else would a person who can't even more well hold down a perfectly healthy woman? The position he uses is indeed very erotic in a visual form but it also is the only position he can choose where she can't escape his grasp.ernst said: 1lau said: And I thought Kariya was raping instead of killing at the end ^Same here. Ufotable made that scene unnecessarily erotic. The scene that was supposed to be rapish-like was the Berseker feeding on Kariya, if any. |
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| Great episode. Kariya is easily fooled and boy does he break down. Great chase scene. Cannot believe Saber bested Rider. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
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