| Watched 14, Lulu would be fucking nuts to execute Rolo. I hope he'll change his mind and use him instead. Just when I thought I couldn't possibly hate Suzaku more he reveals himself to be even a bigger asshole.. Use brainwash and truth syrup (or what was it?) on Kallen is just bellow the belt... on the other hand, everything he does irritates me so whatever. I just hope he dies at the end of the show.. sorta my reason for watching it.. |
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| Yeah he is such a douche. His whole thing was he didnt agree with zero's methods for achieving peace, and then he is willing to use any methods to achieve his own goals? wtf? I don't get the choice of drug he is using. Its refrain, a drug that makes you revert mentally back to a happier time (in the case for most japanese, before the war). I don't see how using that would help him other than it might make her so addicted she will do anything to get more of the drug from him. Either way, i hope suzuku dies a horrible screaming death. I also hope they dont make it so kallen becomes a crackhead who betrays zero for a fix (i may even drop the show if it comes to that...seriously..) |
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| Suzuku was all for peace until a certain someone made Princess Euphemia kill countless Japanese and then killed said princess. I would say he has more reason then anyone to fuck over Lelouch. |
Phantom said: Suzuku was all for peace until a certain someone made Princess Euphemia kill countless Japanese and then killed said princess. I would say he has more reason then anyone to fuck over Lelouch. Suzaku was a traitor idiot since ep1. Actually even before ep1 and current events take place, right there when he killed his dad and forced a whole Japanese race to be subdued to Britannia, causing much more victims that Lulu did or ever will in the progress. He just goes down from bad to worse as the show progresses. |
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| I'll not defend Suzaku for killing his dad though its kind of in the gray. Sure he gave into Britannia but if you remember at the time Japan was done for, whats the point of going on when defend is as plain as day. Susaku may have saved countless lives. No body wants to give in to the enemy but sometimes surrender is the best choice. I can't see how giving in caused more victims. If we gave in to the Nazis we wouldn't have lost nearly as many people as we did but the flip side is we wouldn't be free. Japan was doomed and Sukaku could see this even if his father couldn't. |
Phantom said: I can't see how giving in caused more victims. If we gave in to the Nazis we wouldn't have lost nearly as many people as we did but the flip side is we wouldn't be free. Tell it to the six million Jews who have surrendered to the Nazis, and willingly walked into gas trucks, gas chambers and what not. Let's not go into this cause this conversation goes way deeper then a show with a freakin' giant robots in it. Back to the show, resistance and freedom, no matter at what cost, is more important then surrendering and living a life in slavery. Suzaku is basically a traitor to the Japanese people. You can call it "seeing through the defeat" or "saving countless lives" but what he did is just betray his own country, become a slave to his masters. Basically he is kissing Brit's ass to be better off then his countrymen, he's still a slave but unlike other Japanese he just kneels to the emperor and other royals. He doesn't really care for other Japanese people, just for himself. "Yeah, let's kill Lulu, he killed my beloved Euphie, who cares that he tries to liberate my people. Specially since I'm the one who does everything in his powers to prevent the said liberation". He did feel the racism effects early in the first season, but as he progressed in the Brit-food-chain, he needed less and less ass to kiss, until now, finally, he only kisses the emperors ass. And as he progressed in his position he became more and more like Brits, which in last episode hit the critical point in which he was already like "Ah fuck it, since I'm a Brit's bitch anyway, I'm just might as well inject Kallen with this drug, she's just an eleven terrorist anyway", which is contrary to his behavior in 1st season in which he decided to keep war and school life as two separate lives, which again shows progression, or should I say degradation of his character. |
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| I remember Lelouch telling todo that the Japanese only won a single battle in the whole war before they gave in so that shows you how much chance they had of victory. They did however throw in the towel with much of their army and industry intact so that when defeat did come (which it almost certainly would) then the Japanese wouldn't have to eat their own dead to survive and instead could live in relative safety compared to the after effects of a full blown war. Call him misguided but Sukaku wasn't in this for himself and if you believe that then your ignoring every single flash back and every monologue relating to Sukaku. This isn't the case in R2 as revenge comes into it and rightly so but he still has his sites set on the knights of 1 spot. |
| I'm speechless... were you even watching the show? Suzaku hasn't done a single thing for anyone besides himself. He's so full of shit it's amazing he can still move around without plants immediately growing around him. All he does is talk, "for the sake of Japanese", "for saving people", "reaching equal rights in ways of peace" and other bs, but the fact is, he never did anything to promote any of those goals. |
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| Well hes not in a position to do anything yet. His goal was to reach a rank in Britannia so that he can ease the suffering of the Japanese people. I suppose you think hes going to have a party and dance on the grave of the Japanese nation when he actually reaches his goal? Not going to happen unless Sukaku has been lying to us all this time. Its aright to hate the guy for following the wrong path or not doing things as you would have done but you must see his true motives. He and Euphemia were all set on creating a better Japan for its people until she was killed. |
Phantom said: Well hes not in a position to do anything yet. First, in the current episodes he is already in a pretty powerful position in the empire. Second, even before the current episodes, he could at least not disturb other people who are actually doing something to liberate the Japanese. Phantom said: His goal was to reach a rank in Britannia so that he can ease the suffering of the Japanese people. He already reached a rank, he's a round knight or something, which as far as I understand counts for a lot and yet, I'm don't see him easing anything for anyone.. Oh wait, I see now, injecting some drugs into Kallen to ease her pain? I get it now, oh lord was I misjudged in his intentions or what. Phantom said: I suppose you think hes going to have a party and dance on the grave of the Japanese nation when he actually reaches his goal? Not going to happen unless Sukaku has been lying to us all this time. I didn't say he likes killing Japanese or anything, but he doesn't think about "easing the suffering of the Japanese people" for sure. He only cares for his own position in Brit's empire, for his own suffering ("the holy Euphie revenge"), his own goals (that has nothing to do with Japanese), his own benefit. That's why he kisses emperor's ass, that's why he tried to stop Zero even before he killed Euphie, that's why he never actually did anything for the Japanese. He doesn't really care, he just say he does so he could progress in his position. Phantom said: Its aright to hate the guy for following the wrong path or not doing things as you would have done but you must see his true motives. He and Euphemia were all set on creating a better Japan for its people until she was killed. His true motives are never revealed since he never actually does anything to accomplish them. He talks big but he does nothing (for the people). Euphie was all about creating a better world for Japanese I agree, but her death was an unfortunate but acceptable loss in a war that her country and family started. It wasn't a biggie anyway since at some point her own family, and maybe the emperor himself would stop her from doing what she was doing. She could retrieve Japanese their name back, and give them one or two perks but they would stay slaves anyway, empire wouldn't have it any other way. |
GrooveJul 15, 2008 7:27 AM
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| [[First, in the current episodes he is already in a pretty powerful position in the empire. Second, even before the current episodes, he could at least not disturb other people who are actually doing something to liberate the Japanese.]] But thats his job. Hes never going to better his position if he ignores his responsibilities. While he is in a powerful position as the knight of 7 he doesn't really have any say in the overall running of Japan. [[He already reached a rank, he's a round knight or something, which as far as I understand counts for a lot and yet, I'm don't see him easing anything for anyone.. Oh wait, I see now, injecting some drugs into Kallen to ease her pain? I get it now, oh lord was I misjudged in his intentions or what.]] First off I'll say like i like Kallen a lot more then Sukaku. That said shes a terrorist who has killed innocent people and not so innocent people. Shes playing the game so to speak and you can't just get off the train when things get a little serious. Besides anyone else would have killed her or worse. As i said after Euphemia was killed all bets are off. Hes entitled to his revenge but he still hasn't forgotten his goal. Its just that defeating Zero and reaching the knights of 1 position are one and the same. As to his true motives all we hear about them are that he wants to create a better Japan. We don't see him thinking to himself as in something like death note "I am the true god of this world' all we hear is he wants things to improve. I'm not even saying that his way is the best way but it is another method compared to Lelouch's grand campaign which as Sukaku says will cost many many people their lives before anything gets better and thats assuming he wins. I don't think bowing down to the enemy is the right thing to do but i can't fault Sukaku for trying to change things without having a large scale war. |
Phantom said: But thats his job. Hes never going to better his position if he ignores his responsibilities. While he is in a powerful position as the knight of 7 he doesn't really have any say in the overall running of Japan. He surely can't say anything in the political level, but he can stop regular Brits from abusing Japanese citizens. He can do a lot of things for the Japanese under the radar. His position gives him a limitless possibilities to his people even if he's not calling the shots upstairs. Phantom said: First off I'll say like i like Kallen a lot more then Sukaku. That said shes a terrorist who has killed innocent people and not so innocent people. Shes playing the game so to speak and you can't just get off the train when things get a little serious. Besides anyone else would have killed her or worse. As i said after Euphemia was killed all bets are off. Hes entitled to his revenge but he still hasn't forgotten his goal. Its just that defeating Zero and reaching the knights of 1 position are one and the same. This paragraph is lol. Kallen hasn't kill any innocent people for once. Second, she is not just any terrorist, she's a Japanese terrorist, and she is his friend. This two little things should kinda overrule his desire for finding Zero at any means necessary, which is again ironic and stupid since he was the one who said that nothing should be done at any means necessary, even liberating his countrymen. And no one who is smart (like emperor or Lulu's brother) would have killed Kallen since she's much more valuable alive, for example as a bargaining tool. Phantom said: As to his true motives all we hear about them are that he wants to create a better Japan. We don't see him thinking to himself as in something like death note "I am the true god of this world' all we hear is he wants things to improve. He wants things to improve yet he doesn't do anything to improve them, and does everything to stop them from improving. I don't see the logic here but... |
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| Yeah, the reason he has been stopping lulu and not doing much is because he doesn't approve of lulu's methods. But you can see clearly he doesn't care any more about the methods used so it begs the question, what the hell is he doing anymore? It looks to me like his goals have changed to coincide with britannia (or at the very least, a brittania that doesn't slaughter japanese just subjugates them) and to get his personal revenge. Also, to be fair, kallen and suzu are both indirectly involved in the deaths of innocent people (suzu might even be directly involved in killing innocent people...he was present and armed at the ghetto massacre when he met lulu and cc). Kallen of course was involved in the incident that killed shirleys father and many others. But thats a part of war. But i don't think kallen has ever drugged/tortured someone, especially a former friend, to get what she wants. Not that she wouldn't, hard to say (she was willing to kill lulu in season 1 if he could identify her), but she also hasn't denounced such means in the past like suzu. |
DazarGaidinJul 15, 2008 8:59 AM
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He surely can't say anything in the political level, but he can stop regular Brits from abusing Japanese citizens. He can do a lot of things for the Japanese under the radar. His position gives him a limitless possibilities to his people even if he's not calling the shots upstairs. That may be true if he happens to be around at the time but if he goes out of his way to help the Japanese before he climbs the ladder then people will not take him seriously. Same thing happened to Euphemia. Everyone though see was just a kind hearted care free girl. If hes going to get anywhere he needs to at least act like a leader. Remember when he helped that eleven in series 1 and took some hits from those punks? That shows he cares. This paragraph is lol. Kallen hasn't kill any innocent people for once. Second, she is not just any terrorist, she's a Japanese terrorist, and she is his friend. This two little things should kinda overrule his desire for finding Zero at any means necessary, which is again ironic and stupid since he was the one who said that nothing should be done at any means necessary, even liberating his countrymen. And no one who is smart (like emperor or Lulu's brother) would have killed Kallen since she's much more valuable alive, for example as a bargaining tool. Kallen tried to kill Susaku at the end of season 1. Both of them understand that this isn't a game their playing here. People die and things change. Their relationship has moved on since then. They are not freinds. Lelouch was friends with Sukaku. Nothing lasts. Kallen may not pull a gun out and shoot innocents without a care in the world but she does kill. Not all Britannians are evil. What about common soldiers? What about that security guard that needs killing? A low level bureaucrat that needs getting rid of. She was ready to kill Sukaku at a single word from diehart in series 1. Some friend huh? You don't see everything the black knights get up to on screen. If you want to free your country you can't be whiter then white all the time. By her actions innocents die one way or the other. Your right about the bargaining tool bit but only a handful of people know about that. He wants things to improve yet he doesn't do anything to improve them, and does everything to stop them from improving. I don't see the logic here but... See my first point. He can't pay his card until he is respected enough. If he tries to change things next episode then he will never advance beyond the knight of 7. |
Phantom said: That may be true if he happens to be around at the time but if he goes out of his way to help the Japanese before he climbs the ladder then people will not take him seriously. Same thing happened to Euphemia. Everyone though see was just a kind hearted care free girl. If hes going to get anywhere he needs to at least act like a leader. So you basically call it "hardening his heart for the noble cause", I call it being a hypocrite. At first when he was nothing but a simple soldier and really had no influence whatsoever he really couldn't do anything to help. But now when he's already in high position he still does nothing because he wants to advance even higher. For how far? When it will be enough for him to finally do something? How many people will die, how many people will be led to suicide, how many people will live in constant fear, how many people will become drug addicts, how many lives will be destroyed until he is finally satisfied with his position and take actions? How much is "acceptable losses" for him? Phantom said: Remember when he helped that eleven in series 1 and took some hits from those punks? That shows he cares. No, to be honest I do not remember this particular scene. Phantom said: Kallen may not pull a gun out and shoot innocents without a care in the world but she does kill. She indeed kills, never said otherwise, just not innocent people like you stated. Phantom said: Not all Britannians are evil. What about common soldiers? What about that security guard that needs killing? A low level bureaucrat that needs getting rid of. She was ready to kill Sukaku at a single word from diehart in series 1. Some friend huh? Common soldiers are innocent? Bureaucrats, security guard? This is not even funny, they are all guilty. Guilty at murder, fascism, following wrong immoral orders, indifference. They are guilty as sin and should all be put to death. Being a witness to a crime and not doing anything about it is as guilty as committing the said crime. Leaders such as Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein are all powerless by themselves, it is the people that follow them, obey their orders, don't take act to prevent them are who gives those leaders power. Those people are as guilty as those leaders, they deserve a death sentence as much as those leaders do. You can't call a soldier who executes Japanese because the emperor said so innocent, you can't call a bureaucrats that makes wealth on the backs of suffering, enslaved people, innocent, you can't call a Brit citizen sitting on the bench reading a newspaper like nothing is happening while another person is being abused near him innocent. Phantom said: You don't see everything the black knights get up to on screen. If you want to free your country you can't be whiter then white all the time. By her actions innocents die one way or the other. You definitely can't be always white when liberating a country, but revolutions always end up being bloody. You can't help it, it's an acceptable loss in a way of freedom. You just have to attempt and do as little damage to innocents as possible, and so far, I don't remember Kallen taken any innocent life. If you remember any such accident taking place, feel free to remind me. |
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So you basically call it "hardening his heart for the noble cause", I call it being a hypocrite. At first when he was nothing but a simple soldier and really had no influence whatsoever he really couldn't do anything to help. But now when he's already in high position he still does nothing because he wants to advance even higher. For how far? When it will be enough for him to finally do something? How many people will die, how many people will be led to suicide, how many people will live in constant fear, how many people will become drug addicts, how many lives will be destroyed until he is finally satisfied with his position and take actions? How much is "acceptable losses" for him? Its certain not perfect but what is? You think defeating the worlds superpower is going to be easier and less bloody then rising to the position of knights of 1? Fact is Sukaku is doing far more good then the rebels in the long term. He has a plan apart from the usual 'kill everyone' not Japanese. Its only because Lelouch is a fucking mastermind and has the geass that they rebellion is even a option. All that stuff about contest fear and death ect, how many will die defeading britannia? A lot more I'm sure. No, to be honest I do not remember this particular scene. When he takes Euphemia to see the pain of the elevens in the slums. Common soldiers are innocent? Bureaucrats, security guard? This is not even funny, they are all guilty. Guilty at murder, fascism, following wrong immoral orders, indifference. They are guilty as sin and should all be put to death. Being a witness to a crime and not doing anything about it is as guilty as committing the said crime. Leaders such as Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein are all powerless by themselves, it is the people that follow them, obey their orders, don't take act to prevent them are who gives those leaders power. Those people are as guilty as those leaders, they deserve a death sentence as much as those leaders do. You can't call a soldier who executes Japanese because the emperor said so innocent, you can't call a bureaucrats that makes wealth on the backs of suffering, enslaved people, innocent, you can't call a Brit citizen sitting on the bench reading a newspaper like nothing is happening while another person is being abused near him innocent. Isn't that something a terrorist would say to justify mass killings? That everybody is on the battlefield no matter who you are, even if you don't have a gun in your hand. Mass killings never solve anything, you can look to history to see that and in the current day. I'm sure the average britannian doesn't go out to work and thing to himself 'lets make life even worse for those numbers'. No, most of them are just like anybody else. Target those that are making the decisions, that hold the power not those that push paper and sell fruit on the street. The show does a good job of showing that britanniains look down on elevens but most of them wouldn't go out of their way to make their lives problematic. Your right that you never see Kallen taking any innocent life but according to you there are no innocent lives in brittania. She was ready to kill a friend at school at one word from diehart, its safe to assume that she did things before the black knights came along that were not as pure. |
| Little off topic, but wasn't ohgi the one ordering/leading kallen/terrorists back then? Who was diehart again? For some reason i am thinking thats the journalist dude.. |
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Phantom said: Its certain not perfect but what is? You think defeating the worlds superpower is going to be easier and less bloody then rising to the position of knights of 1? No, I think a revolution will be more bloody, but... revolution will give Japanese something reaching the position of knights of 1 won't do, vengeance. If Suzaku will reach the highest position he wants or whatever, maximum he can do is free the Japanese, and this is like the top of his possibilities, like the best case scenario, but probably he will just ease their lives with them staying slaves nonetheless. No Brits will be killed, Brit empire won't be destroyed, no justice will be done, he can't do that with "high position" in the Brit empire, unless he's gonna spy for the rebels, and somehow sabotage the "system from inside", but he clearly isn't gonna do that so... That's why his methods are useless to begin with. When someone's abusing someone else, it is not enough for the abuser just to stop, eye for an eye, an equal amount of damage must be done to the abuser in order for the abused to feel fulfilled, revenged and capable of going on with their lives. Maybe even a greater amount of damage required. Either way a lot of people already payed their lives, and sanity for the deeds of the Britannians, so "just stopping" won't do any good now. Even if Brits were to stop and completely let Japan go, do you have any idea how many years, decades even, would it take for the Japanese to go back to normal lives? All the current generation would live their lives in fear that someday Britannia or some other empire might come back and the history will repeat it self. Maybe only the grandchildren of the current generation will be free from those fears. Bottom line, all the sins that Britannia has committed are way to heavy to be forgiven. Justice must be done, and by saying justice I of course mean death penalty. Phantom said: Fact is Sukaku is doing far more good then the rebels in the long term. He has a plan apart from the usual 'kill everyone' not Japanese. The definition of the word fact is something that have been proven to exist. So far, whatever Suzaku is doing for the Japanese people is.. wait, what is it that he's doing by the way? Oh, I remember, nothing. So in the long term, doing nothing to the people but advancing his own career and making a good life for himself is better then being on front lines making attempts to free the country for the evil empire.. Well.. It's the farthest thing from the fact that can be, it's just your opinion, and I for example do not agree with it. Its only because Lelouch is a fucking mastermind and has the geass that they rebellion is even a option. All that stuff about contest fear and death ect, how many will die defeading britannia? A lot more I'm sure. Fuck Lulu, revolutions always take place. French, Russian, British revolutions, they all took place, and obviously there were no geass users to lead them. Tyranny cannot prevail, now what is a fact, is that almost all the world has moved to democracy and only few tyrannic countries remained. Think about that before saying the rebellion is not an option. Phantom said: Isn't that something a terrorist would say to justify mass killings? Depends what terrorist, terrorism can be good. In WW2, when Germany conquered countries and there were still rebels working underground to bring it down, what they were doing is terrorism. What you mean by saying terrorist I assume, is religious terrorists who kill for the sole purpose of their religious belief, because other people do not share their beliefs. It's obviously not the case in the current show. Here terrorists are people who want to liberate themselves from an oppression, and take vengeance for the great evil that has been done to them, and I think, that they are fully entitled to take their vengeance, and in my eyes, killing every fascist Brit out there is just a way to do it. When Germany fell in WW2, and Israel was created, there was a special law created, that allowed Israel to haunt ex-Nazis all over the world and bring them to justice. It's not something I'm making up, Israel government has the right to enter the domains of any other other government in order to search for ex-Nazi troops and bring them to Israel. It was a necessary law to the world to at least try and redeem themselves from the sin of knowing what was done in holocaust and yet doing nothing about it. America acted the same way by the way. US could have bombed places like Auschwitz in a heartbeat but they didn't, and they were guilty because of it. This law again proves my point, that it wasn't enough for Germans to just stop whatever they were doing during the holocaust, they needed to pay for it, with their lives. Phantom said: I'm sure the average britannian doesn't go out to work and thing to himself 'lets make life even worse for those numbers'. No, they are not thinking anything about the numbers. They do not care, they do not care if a number is being abused near them, they'll just turn away (and that is in the best case, some of them will even gladly take part in the abuse), if some injustice is being done to the number, they'll just say "well, he is a number anyway, it's not like they have any rights". They are indifferent and guilty, and that is exactly what I was explaining to you in my previous post, so... nothing more I can really add. Phantom said: Target those that are making the decisions, that hold the power not those that push paper and sell fruit on the street. Surely, I don't say target those who push paper and sell fruit on the streets, cause all those people are numbers. Phantom said: The show does a good job of showing that britanniains look down on elevens but most of them wouldn't go out of their way to make their lives problematic. Already answered that. Phantom said: Your right that you never see Kallen taking any innocent life but according to you there are no innocent lives in brittania. She was ready to kill a friend at school at one word from diehart, its safe to assume that she did things before the black knights came along that were not as pure. She wasn't just gonna kill any friend, she was going to kill a very powerful mecha pilot that has been doing nothing but putting the rebellion down. There is nothing wrong about it. I'm not saying "go to school, kill everyone in there", obviously they're all young and stupid and if properly educated can understand the wrong of their thoughts. Either way I'm not about killing kids, but someone as Suzaku being killed would immensely help the rebellion, it's an acceptable, no, even a required loss in order to for the rebellion to prevail. Kallen knew that, she was okay with it, I'm okay with it. |
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| I agree that revolution is needed and given the choice i would rather support Lelouch or someone else who was prepared to stand up to Britannia. Sukaku is however trying to win back the freedom of the Japanese in a different way. A way without bloodshed or having to involve the population has a whole. Theres no denying that the Japanese are suffering and a few lose their lives now and then while he climbs the ladder but you can hardy blame him for each and every death. Those that are responsible are the emperor and those that support him. Its true that Sukaku hasn't really done anything for the Japanese, yet. Hes working his way up until hes in a position of power were he can really do some good. Your right that the emperor would never let Japan become truly free but it sure would get a hell of a lot better with Susaku in charge. All he needs to do is keep Japan nice and peaceful and complaint and the emperor will be happy to let him improve life for the numbers. As long as Japan is under Britannia's control he can do whatever he wants (within reason). The example of hunting down ex-Nazi's is a bad one. Britannia isn't invading Japan to kill all the Japanese in death camps. Its just a war of conquest. Now you may say to yourself that you can't say its 'just' a war of conquest as thats a pretty major thing to undertake but countries have been doing it since the dawn of time. The winner of a war doesn't deserve to have its entire population killed because they happened to go along with things. That isn't how it works. You punish those that are responsible. If we killed all the germans after we had won then would we be any better then those that we defeated? Actually they didn't know that Sakaku was the pilot of the lancelot at the time. Diehart just wanted him dead because he was a symbol of collaboration. Many elevens admired him and thought to themselves 'hey maybe i can succeed if he can'. This was the reason he had to die as he was taking support from Lelouch. Funny thing is that many Britanniants hated him for the same reason. |
Phantom said: I agree that revolution is needed and given the choice i would rather support Lelouch or someone else who was prepared to stand up to Britannia. Good, at least we agree on something. Phantom said: Sukaku is however trying to win back the freedom of the Japanese in a different way. A way without bloodshed or having to involve the population has a whole. Theres no denying that the Japanese are suffering and a few lose their lives now and then while he climbs the ladder but you can hardy blame him for each and every death. Those that are responsible are the emperor and those that support him. You are really just repeating yourself man, and since I really really don't like repeating myself, and I don't really have anything else to add to my previous posts I won't reply to this paragraph. Just go reread my previous posts if you feel like, if you do reread them however, notice, what I was blaming him for, and why. Besides that, I really have nothing to add. Phantom said: Its true that Sukaku hasn't really done anything for the Japanese, yet. Hes working his way up until hes in a position of power were he can really do some good. Your right that the emperor would never let Japan become truly free but it sure would get a hell of a lot better with Susaku in charge. All he needs to do is keep Japan nice and peaceful and complaint and the emperor will be happy to let him improve life for the numbers. As long as Japan is under Britannia's control he can do whatever he wants (within reason). And....? This paragraph as I see it, consists of two part. First part is a summary of what I have said, and I obviously agree with that, and the second part is you saying the same thing you have said in your previous post and I already replied in the my previous post why exactly it is not a good solution for the Japanese to "behave" and be in the good grace of the emperor. Phantom said: The example of hunting down ex-Nazi's is a bad one. Britannia isn't invading Japan to kill all the Japanese in death camps. Its just a war of conquest. Now you may say to yourself that you can't say its 'just' a war of conquest as thats a pretty major thing to undertake but countries have been doing it since the dawn of time. Wars of conquest really were done since the dawn of time, but they are also the most cruel and primitive. As you surely now, there are no more wars like that in the modern world, there really is a good reason for that. People cannot be controlled against their will, tyranny always fails. As for the example, I was really just pointing out the importance of retribution rather then comparing situations. I wanted to say that vengeance is very important and just "letting go" or "forgiving" won't work. Phantom said: The winner of a war doesn't deserve to have its entire population killed because they happened to go along with things. That isn't how it works. You punish those that are responsible. If we killed all the germans after we had won then would we be any better then those that we defeated? I didn't say wipe out the entire population, but if some of them are needed to be killed in order for the revolution to take place so be it. I do believe that all the nation should be punished though, with a temporary tax for example. Like for two generations or something. Phantom said: Actually they didn't know that Sakaku was the pilot of the lancelot at the time. Diehart just wanted him dead because he was a symbol of collaboration. Many elevens admired him and thought to themselves 'hey maybe i can succeed if he can'. This was the reason he had to die as he was taking support from Lelouch. Funny thing is that many Britanniants hated him for the same reason. I don't remember the exact scene you are talking about but what you are saying doesn't really appeal to me. "Look at him, one can actually kiss enough ass in order to be a little bit less of a slave then we are now, and who cares if all my other countrymen are suffering, I can be better off myself". |
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| I may be repeating myself about Susaku so i may as well sum up what i think our view points are. We both believe that Susaku hasn't done any good for the Japanese but i think your wrong that he is only looking out for himself. This is a guy that killed his own father to stop the killing. I'm not trying to tell you that Sukaku's way is best but it is a way for the Japanese to enjoy something closer to the life they had until they are liberated. Those that do not wish to fight can live their lives. Britannia will fall at some point, no world power has lated forever. Sukaku is the hope of those who just want to go on living as best they can. Don't tell me they should all fight as I'm not defending their choice. His motivation is to improve things, this is what started this debate as you believe that he is only out for number 1 and thats just not true. You did give the impression that everyone in Britannia is responsible, not only the guys in charge but the everyday person who sits on his ass living his live while people suffer. You used the death sentence, that they deserve it. Some of them need to be killed yes but you need to have limits to the bloodshed otherwise your no better then those crack head terrorists. Retribution led to the second world war. If Britannia loses I'm sure the people of the world will give the brits whats coming to them as soon as they march through their city's. They will suffer worse then the Japanese when their city's are in ruin and food runs dry. Plus the shame of their past action which will haunt them like Germany. Britannia for the most part isn't the worse conquerer in history. You could do worse then living in Japan. |
Phantom said: I may be repeating myself about Susaku so i may as well sum up what i think our view points are. We both believe that Susaku hasn't done any good for the Japanese but i think your wrong that he is only looking out for himself. This is a guy that killed his own father to stop the killing. I'm not trying to tell you that Sukaku's way is best but it is a way for the Japanese to enjoy something closer to the life they had until they are liberated. Those that do not wish to fight can live their lives. Britannia will fall at some point, no world power has lated forever. Okay, let's sum up :thumbsup: This paragraph - Agree except for the part of "I'm not trying to tell you that Sukaku's way is best but it is a way for the Japanese to enjoy something closer to the life they had until they are liberated." since Suzaku is also the one who actively and directly prevents the liberation. What he does is not "until they are liberated", cause he doesn't plan to liberate them to begin with, only ease their pain, but again he isn't even doing that. Phantom said: Sukaku is the hope of those who just want to go on living as best they can. Don't tell me they should all fight as I'm not defending their choice. His motivation is to improve things, this is what started this debate as you believe that he is only out for number 1 and thats just not true. He may have started out with the best intentions in mind, but now he certainly seems to care a lot more about himself, his personal revenue (vengeance etc) and sucking up to his Brit commanders then helping Japanese. Phantom said: You did give the impression that everyone in Britannia is responsible, not only the guys in charge but the everyday person who sits on his ass living his live while people suffer. You used the death sentence, that they deserve it. Some of them need to be killed yes but you need to have limits to the bloodshed otherwise your no better then those crack head terrorists. I certainly said and still do that everyone in Britannia is responsible. On the same note, I never meant wiping them all out, as you noted it was not done to Germany in WW2 and it should not be done here, but punishment is required. Obviously those directly responsible for killing Japanese (soldiers, commanders, people at the top) are to be executed. Phantom said: Retribution led to the second world war. If Britannia loses I'm sure the people of the world will give the brits whats coming to them as soon as they march through their city's. They will suffer worse then the Japanese when their city's are in ruin and food runs dry. Plus the shame of their past action which will haunt them like Germany. Britannia for the most part isn't the worse conquerer in history. You could do worse then living in Japan. I.. partly agree with you here. I agree that too much retribution may just reignite the war and that if the British empire were to lose the war, the rampage would destroy a lot and do a great damage. On the other hand, I do not agree that it is more then the Japanese have suffered, I do not agree that retribution is not needed (though you never explicitly said so, I get the impression that that is what you meant), I think something as terribly as what they have done (all of them, all the nation, and not just leaders or whatever) is something that they all must atone for the rest of their lives. Like you noted, a good a example of such atonement is the taxes and limitation laws that were passed on Germany after WW1, I believe that it is a good idea, and it was a fair decision from the countries of Europe. They should have just enforced it better. |
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| So to sum up: Lelouch is an awesome douchebag. Suzaku is a douchebag made of fail. The emperor is an awesome douchebag who also is evil. Clearly, this show is about DOUCHEBAGS and SERIOUS BUSINESS. |
| Pity Schneizel can't play chess otherwise he would be perfect. |
| The chess scene makes me want to quote the gg fansub page from back when it aired: "Gay ponies, Schneizel, and illegal chess moves, FUCK YEAH!" And yeah, I did forget Schneizel. Clovis was totally fabulous win though. |
| 15 was...wow. |
| Episode 15 |
| Wow, crazy episode. I felt so bad for C.C. As for lulu |
|
| I guess we dropped dirt on Suzaku for using drugs on Kallen for nothing... |
|
| Suzaku for president! |
| of Uganda. |
|
| Yeah code geass owned us on suzu |
|
| Lol, CLAMPass fingers are weird sometimes. Also: |
| Could explain why the emporer was on suzu's nutsac...he was priming him for later to have his geass. |
|
| If you look in the job list your see that the joke guy in the black knights got the role of head of cleaning lol. Also epic episode. More Susaku and lelouch development also poor CC. |
| I can never see the links you post...it always says forbidden. |
|
| Maybe you're just not worthy? Heres the link again. http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9535/15a496cd5a255c59f007922mt5.jpg |
| :P Funny picture, kinda strange to see a different style |
|
| When you get a forbidden on Danbooru, just reload the page and it should work fine. That said: lol, that's basically what'll happen...Shirley was the only girl who didn't fit in, when you think about it. |
| What can I say? Geass isn't my only power, you know. I am nonetheless very pleased with those results (well, except for 2. Go die, *spoiler*). Anyway, as for the current episode: |
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