A Question to Fans of NGE

May 5, 2013 10:01 AM

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May 2010

1253

Out of curiosity, what are your opinions on those who are completely biased against Evangelion (especially the TV series) who seem to hate it for superficial reasons, such as saying the whole cast is completely unlikeable for example and say those who like NGE have shit taste, or seem to hate it because of the legacy it has?

It feels like there has been a lot of hate toward Evangelion that's been going on lately.

kanon-chanMay 5, 2013 12:07 PM

May 7, 2013 1:26 PM

Shoryu

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Oct 2012

7837

kanon-chan said:
Out of curiosity, what are your opinions on those who are completely biased against Evangelion (especially the TV series) who seem to hate it for superficial reasons, such as saying the whole cast is completely unlikeable for example and say those who like NGE have shit taste, or seem to hate it because of the legacy it has?

I mean, it's definitely not for everyone and I would venture to say they do have a case. In some ways, NGE is indeed a 'pile of shit'. There's a lot that it could've done, but understandable the creators went into that hole with the lack of a solid budget. Also have to account for the fact NGE is not a typical "Zero-to-Hero" glory story which again, is not meant for everyone, I mean, who really wants a show nowadays where it goes off into despair without a glimmer of hope in sight, and for NGE's case, never really shows up? Not many. I however really did enjoy NGE because it felt really different from the norm for obvious reasons. It's the only anime thus far, and media overall, where I could see myself in a character; that Shinji obviously.
In essence, I think the mood a person's in plays a huge role, not in all cases of course, in determining whether they got something from NGE.

I will say though, it does irk me whenever someone criticizes Shinji so much to the point, "Grow some balls man" "What a fucking crybaby" "Why doesn't he ever get his act together?"
Those are rather cliche remarks I see against the series.

kanon-chan said:

It feels like there has been a lot of hate toward Evangelion that's been going on lately.

Lately? Granted, I did NOT watch NGE until a couple months ago, but from my understanding, over the last 17 years, the hate, or rather controversy, for it has been consistent. However, I'm also willing to say the hate back when it aired was much worse considering it's what made NGE the NGE we see today. I think the Rebuilds that are keeping the franchise alive is what that is attracting even more people to the series and finding it to be a foul taste after watching ol' glorious HD-high-quality-animation with a less whiny protagonist and finding it to be shit.

ShoryuMay 7, 2013 1:32 PM

Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is.

May 7, 2013 3:59 PM

kanon-chan

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May 2010

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@Tavor

I appreciate the insight you gave considering most fans use anime as a means to escape reality and NGE is one of those anime shows that reflect the reality people want to escape from. So I can understand from looking at it from that perspective.

In regards to your second statement, from what I know that despite the last two, unpopular episodes of the TV series, the reception was relatively a positive one and became a popular series by the fans and that most of the criticisms came from Anno's creative rivals, for example Gundam's Yoshiyuki Tomino who was interviewed by Animerica magazine back in 2000 and he was asked about Evangelion. From my experience with the Rebuild films, I don't see much difference in Shinji from the character he was in the TV series.

kanon-chanMay 7, 2013 4:36 PM

May 7, 2013 5:09 PM

Shoryu

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Oct 2012

7837

kanon-chan said:
@Tavor

I appreciate the insight you gave considering most fans use anime as a means to escape reality and NGE is one of those anime shows that reflect the reality people want to escape from. So I can understand from looking at it from that perspective.

Indeed so. I will however throw a question on you and ask why you enjoyed (or appreciate?) Evangelion? I'm rather curious of how other fans loved this series, as I'm sure feeling a deep connection to the character can't be the only reason. I have come across users here on the forums that praise it because it deconstructs the mecha genre and defined some of today's animes' tropes; that type of praise for it seems like an obligatory and systematic "thank you for what you did for the anime industry" rather than "thank you for some really meaningful content". Not that there's anything wrong with that of course, but I do wonder at times, even though I haven't really flat out asked until now.

kanon-chan said:

In regards to your second statement, from what I know that despite the last two, unpopular episodes of the TV series, the reception was relatively a positive one and became a popular series by the fans and that most of the criticisms came from Anno's creative rivals, for example Gundam's Yoshiyuki Tomino who was interviewed by Animerica magazine back in 2000 and he was asked about Evangelion.

I find this to be really fascinating information! I'm still dabbling into this franchise and trying to uncover as much as I can; proving to be a rather fun scavenger hunt.
Any other specifics about Anno or other background information about Evangelion, feel free to share :)

kanon-chan said:
From my experience with the Rebuild films, I don't see much difference in Shinji from the character he was in the TV series.

Perhaps because we both really enjoyed NGE from the get-go. It would seem plausible that new people entering into the franchise go into the Rebuilds and then check out the original series only to see a more in-depth outlook on Shinji they may eventually hate. I believe though we already do see a different Shinji, it's evident in our scoring of the Rebuilds compared to the original, as something was lost character/personality-wise.

On another note, I think many people watching NGE for the first time make the mistake of watching the English dub. One my of irl friends said he watched the dub, after I asked him of course, since he went on how annoying Shinji was. I later checked out the dub myself and noticed the VA for Shinji does sound rather....annoying. So on top of a 'pussy'/'whiny'/'good for nothing' character, there's even more reason to dislike the guy with an undesirable VA.

Eventually I told him to check out the subbed version and asked what he thought; he thought it was more bearable. He has yet to re-watch it all in sub though which is understandable since he wasted time with the dub.

In this sense, many haters of NGE may had watched the dub.

Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is.

May 7, 2013 5:34 PM

kanon-chan

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May 2010

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@Tavor

To answer your question on why I enjoyed Evangelion is back when I was getting into more anime outside of the usual gateway shows back in the day in the late 90's-early 00's consisting of Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z for example, I came across Evangelion and when I watched it, I was drawn to the story and its' characters and found it engaging. The OP song, "A Cruel Angel's Thesis" is one of my favorite anime songs of all time and I find it a rather ironic piece as the song itself is upbeat considering the tone of the anime itself. I also loved the Eva battles, including the one shown in the 8th episode when Asuka appears for the first time. With time, as I understood the characters more, despite their flawed nature each of them has, and I take time to see what positive qualities they have, even if it's just one thing. Take Shinji for example, despite his many shortcomings, he was a different person when he's hanging out with Touji and Kensuke after becoming friends with them, Shinji seemed more outgoing from having them in his life. Even with the depressing tone of the series, I took notice to the light-hearted and funny moments that the series had, most of those coming from anything involving PenPen, such as in the 5th episode when he took a taste of Misato's concoction and the reaction he had made me laugh so hard.

kanon-chanMay 8, 2013 5:17 AM

May 13, 2013 10:18 AM

Aleksai

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Apr 2013

501

I don't want to bust in on a conversation, but it looked like Kanon was making an open invitation for public discussion, so I beg your forgiveness if that wasn't the case.

NGE was the first anime I actually watched, from beginning to end, and the first anime I put any serious thought into. I'd say that NGE is one of the most significant influences on the way my personality and personal philosophy has developed. I am also willing to say that it is still my favorite anime of all time.

That said, whenever I see a comment ripping on NGE because of some sort of surface problem, or because of the damaged nature of the cast, or because of the unsatisfying ending, I feel a great deal of anger towards that person. I feel that someone who can watch any amount of the series and only see a whiny bunch of children and lame fights doesn't understand the series on a fundamental level, and for that reason should not be critiquing it. I feel almost like one of the Vietnam veterans who, after being fundamentally changed by their horrific experiences, find themselves utterly intolerant of anyone who tries to trivialize or degrade those experiences. The series, and the philosophy as I understood it behind the series, are so fundamental to my worldview that I take a rejection of the series as a personal rejection.

On the topic of the comparison between the Rebuild and the original series, I feel that a good deal of what made Eva, well, Eva has been lost in the translation, and has been replaced with generic hotblooded heroic antics. I feel that the character of Shinji has been fundamentally altered in the development of the Rebuild, and I feel the change is negative.

As to why I enjoy the series; I see myself, and all of humanity, reflected in NGE. I see our glories, our sparkling heights, and I see our depths, our howling empty places. I see good people crushed by forces beyond their control, and bad people succeeding and escaping justice, though in the end all die. I see an expression of the fundamental isolated state of humankind, and I see a validation of ourselves as human. Also, I really love the story and characters, though I feel physical and emotional pain whenever I think about their lives. I see in Shinji, Asuka, Rei, and all the others reflections of the broken children of reality, and want nothing more than to embrace them, though I know that I will never be able to do so. In conclusion, that enjoyment, that full-fronted acknowledgement of the human existence, and that discussion on what humanity is and should be, is far more enjoyable than some ridiculous heroic myth rehashed for the hundred-thousanth time.

You say tomato, I say horrible murder by Gibbering Horrors That Should Not Be. Simple pronunciation difference, really.

May 14, 2013 4:31 PM

kanon-chan

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1253

@Aleksai

No problem at all, your comment is very insightful and I share the same feelings, especially when it comes to establishing a connection to the characters and understanding them through their own POV, to look beyond the surface and peel back the layers to uncover the message that NGE is trying to deliver in what it means to be human. However, I will respect a critical opinion as long as it's well-thought out with a logical reason to back it up, and isn't of pure bias and is more than just complaining about the fanbase for example.

I also feel the same way about the Rebuilds especially in what became of Misato's character, Rebuild Misato seems to have lost the warmth that the original NGE Misato had and that's what I admired in Misato was her compassionate nature.

May 17, 2013 7:37 PM

Aleksai

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Apr 2013

501

Well, I'm glad that you approve. And, I will accept critical comments as well, so long as they are in some way substantial. Bitching about Shinji angers me deeply, but a philosophical conversation about isolation in NGE is downright titillating!

Anyway, I disapprove of Misato's reinterpretation too, but my dislike was overshadowed by my disgust at the new Shinji. I do think that the juxtaposition of the chilly commanding officer and the warm guardian was the most fascinating part of her character, as well as a great flaw on her part. If you see her from a military point of view first, she associated inappropriately with her subordinates, and formed overly personal bonds, compromising her leadership ability. From a personal point of view, the way that she was willing to use the Children as tools for her vengeance is sickening, as is her neglect of Shinji after Kaji's death.

You say tomato, I say horrible murder by Gibbering Horrors That Should Not Be. Simple pronunciation difference, really.

May 23, 2013 12:50 AM

Starchild136

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Aug 2011

It used to bother me a long time ago but I've seen so much hate for it since after viewing it for the first time years ago that I've gotten used to it. Although like what some people in this thread have been saying about people bitching about shijis character calling him a "cry baby" or a "whiny bitch" that annoys me to great degree its like people miss the point that his character was meant to be realistic.

May 23, 2013 12:12 PM

#10

Aleksai

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Apr 2013

501

I wonder if that hatred of Shinji's flaws is a reflection of some amount of self-hatred, or self disgust?

You say tomato, I say horrible murder by Gibbering Horrors That Should Not Be. Simple pronunciation difference, really.

May 27, 2013 12:50 PM

#11

Ston3_FreeN7

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Jun 2009

15315

Aleksai said:
I wonder if that hatred of Shinji's flaws is a reflection of some amount of self-hatred, or self disgust?

I've wondered this my self. But, I've avoided bringing it up in discussions because it could lead to all kinds of shit storms in the forums.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

May 27, 2013 1:13 PM

#12

Lo-Lee-Ta

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Apr 2013

11991

Aleksai said:
I wonder if that hatred of Shinji's flaws is a reflection of some amount of self-hatred, or self disgust?

Well that's actually a good point, I haven't thought about it like that, the answer is probably a yes.

May 31, 2013 12:20 AM

#13

Reincloud

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Jan 2013

I myself haven't talked to that many people about it. However, I have seen the shitstorms on YouTube and such, and to be honest, it annoys me. A lot of times it's just pointless complaining about Shinji's character "being a pussy the whole series" which actually is not the case. I actually marathoned NGE and TEoE over a school weekend, and I don't regret it at all. The series shows you how much people can be hiding inside, and that we are nowhere near perfect or functional. I love how the series made me think about myself, society, the world. When I finished TEoE, I literally just sat there at my computer speechless, doing nothing. There are so many things I would love to talk about with someone else, regarding NGE, and people/life. Sadly, a lot of the people I know don't watch/aren't interested in anime, and if they did, would not enjoy NGE(You can pretty much tell who would or wouldn't enjoy NGE, if you knew them.) As for other people, I do admit there are some major faults with the series, mainly being the huge lack of budget, (heck, I even got kind of peeved with "those scenes" you know what I'm talking about. -cough- shinji and misato staring at each other for over a minute at the train station -cough-) I'm also sure many people aren't able to look past the shock images/scenes, and the "fucked up" parts in the series, which definitely is not for everyone. However, to those who were able to look past it/accept it, and allowed NGE to affect our lives and make us think about ourselves and really reflect, I offer a very enthusiastic virtual high-five.

whew, that was a bit longer than I expected it to be...

May 31, 2013 6:39 AM

#14

Ubik_

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Mar 2012

hatred about what? about something they cannot get? who gives a fuck?
they hate the characters because of their issues. mental, sentimental etc.
yeah, but that's the fucking point of this series!
this is NGE's background.
they hate shinji cause he's a wuss or something. a wuss! we are talking about Jung and Freud! it's Evangelion, not Gurren Lagann!

Jun 2, 2013 6:11 AM

#15

Aleksai

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Apr 2013

501

Well, Giorgio, I can say that I give at least somewhat of a fuck, because pointless hatred is blinding, and makes much harder to draw any meaningful points from the series. Also, it gets really old listening to their bitching. As for Shinji being a wuss, I think that he can only really be called that if we compare him to other anime heroes. If we compare him to ordinary human beings (I. E. the audience), he is right around our average. To hate our collective average displays, to a degree, a hatred of self. Or so it seems to me.

You say tomato, I say horrible murder by Gibbering Horrors That Should Not Be. Simple pronunciation difference, really.

Jun 20, 2013 1:02 PM

#16

FacelessVixen

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Aug 2009

11167

The psychological and biblical references are beyond their comprehension.

Weeeeelllllll, shit.

FacelessVixenJun 20, 2013 1:14 PM

Jul 5, 2013 11:16 AM

#17

Ettel

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Jan 2013

I honestly think that because it is by no means a conventional anime, people are out of their comfort zone and don't try to understand it thus they just call it "bad" and that's that.

[img]http://digimonrpgonline.net/forum/image.php?u=39835&type=sigpic&dateline=1277700375[img]

Jul 9, 2013 10:00 PM

#18

Aquarius215

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Jul 2012

166

Honestly, there are a myriad of different reasons why many people dislike the series so strongly. One is that some haven't even seen it and don't want to think they're giving in to a fad, and are just too close-minded to realize this series was a first of its kind...groundbreaking in many areas. Another is that some have seen it but it's just not their type, and I'm sure most of us know that there are many who mindlessly bash things that they don't personally enjoy.

However, the biggest reason is probably deeper than all of that. The main purpose of the series was to "wake" many people up and have them confront reality. Now this attempt was a huge backfire for Anno's intentions. Though, I'm sure that a large portion of people who've seen it have been affected by the subliminal psychological and philosophical aspects behind the series, whether they're conscious of it or not. And people do not like to be told how to live their lives, especially by an anime :P Unfortunately, most of those narrow-minded people were the ones it was targeted at the most.

Personally, I love the series and the Rebuild movies as well. It's hard to find this kind of quality anime, especially these days, that address so many different deep philosophies that constitute the story line.

Lastly, it's one thing to not like something. But some people go out of their way to create clubs, forums, etc. dedicated just to hating on NGE. Those people will most likely never be able to appreciate anything beyond face value.

Jul 12, 2013 6:42 PM

#19

Zuggy

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Jan 2008

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kanon-chan said:
Out of curiosity, what are your opinions on those who are completely biased against Evangelion

They represent a good opportunity for some laffs.

Jul 13, 2013 12:50 AM

#20

Aquarius215

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Jul 2012

166

Zuggy said:

kanon-chan said:
Out of curiosity, what are your opinions on those who are completely biased against Evangelion

They represent a good opportunity for some laffs.

By "laffs" do you mean in regards to the fools who who can't understand or appreciate the true nature of NGE?

Apr 24, 2014 7:30 PM

#21

No_Longer_Active

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Feb 2013

760

Hmm...interesting question. As others have said, Evangelion is a bit of an acquired taste and is certainly not for everyone. Honestly, if someone who dislikes the series because it's too confusing, depressing, or think that the characters are terrible are just unable to see what the purpose of this show. It's not trying to be a typical mecha/action anime, it's more of a character study while providing commentary on how people handle relationships, hardships, life, etc.

Not everyone is able to analyze every piece of detail a show has to offer, thus making a show like NGE a challenge for some.

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