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Jul 31, 2023 9:15 PM
#1
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Feb 2019
1
Jul 31, 2023 9:50 PM
#2
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Dec 2020
1
This is the first actually interesting post I've seen on MAL... Very good observations, and although I'm not totally on board at the moment as I only just recently finished the series, I really think this theory might be plausible
Aug 1, 2023 3:16 AM
#3
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Dec 2020
61
nice explanation i too think that the woman was not nanako and i believe that maybe nakoshi was just going jack shit crazy after all the things that happened and was most probably lying to himself about her being nanako because he needed someone like nanako who would love him even if he's evil
Aug 2, 2023 12:08 AM
#4
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Sep 2020
227
I think she is Nanako, but in denial. Just like Nakoshi, she too left her past behind, got the surgery probably because the breakup gave her some insecurity complex regarding her looks, and also a determination to erase her painful past and start a new life. Nakoshi didn't actually forget his past, although it seems that he did; he forced his mind to believe his new self as the original one as if the old one never existed, because it was too shameful to him.

Nanako feels the same way. Unlike Nakoshi, she remembered her old life, but didn't want to face the painful past anymore. She denied being Nanako, because recalling the old moments were too painful for her. She rejected Nakoshi earlier saying "I hate the lips that lie" (something like that, I don't remember the exact sentence) because she recognized Nakoshi despite his plastic surgery, because she knew him personally (corner of his lips twitch upright when he lies). She saw him through his facade. In Nanako's eyes, Nakoshi was as pure as a white cloud at the time, when he hadn't turn evil. But later, she refused to see him as the cloud because she has witnessed his true self.
Red_sparklingAug 2, 2023 12:14 AM
Aug 2, 2023 12:33 PM
#5
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Apr 2021
47
Red_sparkling said:
I think she is Nanako, but in denial. Just like Nakoshi, she too left her past behind, got the surgery probably because the breakup gave her some insecurity complex regarding her looks, and also a determination to erase her painful past and start a new life. Nakoshi didn't actually forget his past, although it seems that he did; he forced his mind to believe his new self as the original one as if the old one never existed, because it was too shameful to him.

Nanako feels the same way. Unlike Nakoshi, she remembered her old life, but didn't want to face the painful past anymore. She denied being Nanako, because recalling the old moments were too painful for her. She rejected Nakoshi earlier saying "I hate the lips that lie" (something like that, I don't remember the exact sentence) because she recognized Nakoshi despite his plastic surgery, because she knew him personally (corner of his lips twitch upright when he lies). She saw him through his facade. In Nanako's eyes, Nakoshi was as pure as a white cloud at the time, when he hadn't turn evil. But later, she refused to see him as the cloud because she has witnessed his true self.

I agree, she even grabs his lips and then he cannot lie in that one scene. I recently finished Homunculus and I'm not sure what to think of the last arc really lol.
Feb 27, 2024 9:40 AM
#6

Offline
Oct 2017
53
Reply to InfiNitrous
Red_sparkling said:
I think she is Nanako, but in denial. Just like Nakoshi, she too left her past behind, got the surgery probably because the breakup gave her some insecurity complex regarding her looks, and also a determination to erase her painful past and start a new life. Nakoshi didn't actually forget his past, although it seems that he did; he forced his mind to believe his new self as the original one as if the old one never existed, because it was too shameful to him.

Nanako feels the same way. Unlike Nakoshi, she remembered her old life, but didn't want to face the painful past anymore. She denied being Nanako, because recalling the old moments were too painful for her. She rejected Nakoshi earlier saying "I hate the lips that lie" (something like that, I don't remember the exact sentence) because she recognized Nakoshi despite his plastic surgery, because she knew him personally (corner of his lips twitch upright when he lies). She saw him through his facade. In Nanako's eyes, Nakoshi was as pure as a white cloud at the time, when he hadn't turn evil. But later, she refused to see him as the cloud because she has witnessed his true self.

I agree, she even grabs his lips and then he cannot lie in that one scene. I recently finished Homunculus and I'm not sure what to think of the last arc really lol.
@InfiNitrous He had grabbed his own lips in said panel.

Jul 25, 2024 11:51 AM
#7

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Jan 2016
137
I just finished the manga and, after reading through many forum posts on various sites, I was also shocked to find that most people accepted that woman as Nanako. In reality, the book’s subtext clearly depicts that this is NOT the case — I would go so far as to say that this is not even a theory.

Once she tells Nakoshi that she is not Nanako and can’t see clouds for the final time, we see Nakoshi with a shocked expression as our view quickly fades to black. I believe this is a metaphor for Nakoshi’s mental state crumbling; after witnessing the suicide of a man who similarly believed he had nowhere to go, Nakoshi is desperate to find a place to call home and believes Nanako is his only path toward salvation in finding true love and his true self. He cannot accept that this woman is not Nanako, and the mere thought that he may never find her — the only person who may see his true self — is enough to break him.

Following the fade to black, Nakoshi assaults her, berates her, threatens her, and finally tells her to tell “that final, teensy little lie” to herself. As he says this, he appears demonic and it is clear that his mental state has finally reached the point of no return. It is beyond me how many people seemed to have just glossed over this scene… The lie that Nakoshi is requesting her to tell is that she is Nanako. There is no other possible interpretation of this line. It cements that not only is this woman not Nanako but that Nakoshi KNOWS it, at least deep down, and is willing to suppress that knowledge to attain a new false perception of happiness.

Finally, after the woman witnesses Nakoshi’s apparent miracle with the Yakuza and believes in his power to see inside hearts, she accepts that she can tell this little lie after all. The manga literally depicts her shaking and stuttering for a moment before she tells that lie, and Nakoshi reacts to it with a devilish grin and psychopathic look. Once again, I cannot understand how there would be other interpretations of these two scenes. It seems most people just completely read past them or forgot about them entirely.

I didn’t originally come to these forums to theorize and question whether that woman is Nanako, I wanted to theorize about their prior relationship and identities or the lack thereof. I theorize that the following is the most likely possibility:

Nakoshi and this woman never met each other before their plastic surgeries, they may have just shared a very similar experience with similar trauma (like with the other homunculi that Nakoshi closely encountered). It is not uncommon for an ugly man and an ugly woman to date, only for the ugly man to disappear following a pregnancy. This would explain why she referred to her former lover as Satoshi and why Satoshi’s face did not match the one in Nakoshi’s photo. This stance may also be supported by the nature of their conversation in the car just before the scenes previously discussed above. As Nakoshi and the woman speak to one another about their past relationship trauma and their stories align, it’s written in a way that seems as if they are not talking to one another, but rather to Nanako and Satoshi, two different people. They both refer to Nanako and Satoshi as “she” and “he” or by their names, rather than “you” in most instances. Even the woman refers to Nanako as she/her. The few times that one of them uses the pronoun “you,” it is primarily used as a comment on that person’s story. The conversation reads very similarly to Nakoshi’s conversations with other homunculi earlier in the manga; they are not truly talking to one another, but rather talking to themselves and their past trauma by using the other person with an incredibly similar experience as a vessel.

Before writing this comment, I had a few other possible explanations in mind that were more unsubstantiated and out there. For example, I thought of the possibility that Nakoshi had forgotten not only his face but also his real name. Even in such a case, I thought that the woman wasn’t Nanako, but rather another woman that Nakoshi was with besides Nanako. However, writing my thoughts like this helped me settle upon the conclusion I outlined above, particularly when I connected that their conversation was similar to Nakoshi’s with other homunculi. That realization brings it all together.

That woman was simply yet another person with a mirrored trauma to Nakoshi’s, like every other homunculus before her. They were both on opposite sides of abandoning / being abandoned by the only person they believed accepted them despite their looks. For Nakoshi, this formed feelings of regret, self-pity, and hollowness, while for the woman it cemented her feeling that men were shallow and could not see through to her heart. Their reasonings for surgery were mirrored too — Nakoshi got surgery to escape his situation after failing to realize what he did have while the woman got surgery to cope with her situation out of fear for what she didn’t have. Both dealt with this trauma by becoming compulsive liars in the aftermath. Ultimately, it became a tragic story where they are both willing to accept one final lie to give themselves false hope of finding someone who can see their true selves. You’re free to disagree, but this is my interpretation of the true nature of their relationship.
Nov 14, 2024 10:38 AM
#8
Offline
Jan 2021
163
Reply to k0rvus
I just finished the manga and, after reading through many forum posts on various sites, I was also shocked to find that most people accepted that woman as Nanako. In reality, the book’s subtext clearly depicts that this is NOT the case — I would go so far as to say that this is not even a theory.

Once she tells Nakoshi that she is not Nanako and can’t see clouds for the final time, we see Nakoshi with a shocked expression as our view quickly fades to black. I believe this is a metaphor for Nakoshi’s mental state crumbling; after witnessing the suicide of a man who similarly believed he had nowhere to go, Nakoshi is desperate to find a place to call home and believes Nanako is his only path toward salvation in finding true love and his true self. He cannot accept that this woman is not Nanako, and the mere thought that he may never find her — the only person who may see his true self — is enough to break him.

Following the fade to black, Nakoshi assaults her, berates her, threatens her, and finally tells her to tell “that final, teensy little lie” to herself. As he says this, he appears demonic and it is clear that his mental state has finally reached the point of no return. It is beyond me how many people seemed to have just glossed over this scene… The lie that Nakoshi is requesting her to tell is that she is Nanako. There is no other possible interpretation of this line. It cements that not only is this woman not Nanako but that Nakoshi KNOWS it, at least deep down, and is willing to suppress that knowledge to attain a new false perception of happiness.

Finally, after the woman witnesses Nakoshi’s apparent miracle with the Yakuza and believes in his power to see inside hearts, she accepts that she can tell this little lie after all. The manga literally depicts her shaking and stuttering for a moment before she tells that lie, and Nakoshi reacts to it with a devilish grin and psychopathic look. Once again, I cannot understand how there would be other interpretations of these two scenes. It seems most people just completely read past them or forgot about them entirely.

I didn’t originally come to these forums to theorize and question whether that woman is Nanako, I wanted to theorize about their prior relationship and identities or the lack thereof. I theorize that the following is the most likely possibility:

Nakoshi and this woman never met each other before their plastic surgeries, they may have just shared a very similar experience with similar trauma (like with the other homunculi that Nakoshi closely encountered). It is not uncommon for an ugly man and an ugly woman to date, only for the ugly man to disappear following a pregnancy. This would explain why she referred to her former lover as Satoshi and why Satoshi’s face did not match the one in Nakoshi’s photo. This stance may also be supported by the nature of their conversation in the car just before the scenes previously discussed above. As Nakoshi and the woman speak to one another about their past relationship trauma and their stories align, it’s written in a way that seems as if they are not talking to one another, but rather to Nanako and Satoshi, two different people. They both refer to Nanako and Satoshi as “she” and “he” or by their names, rather than “you” in most instances. Even the woman refers to Nanako as she/her. The few times that one of them uses the pronoun “you,” it is primarily used as a comment on that person’s story. The conversation reads very similarly to Nakoshi’s conversations with other homunculi earlier in the manga; they are not truly talking to one another, but rather talking to themselves and their past trauma by using the other person with an incredibly similar experience as a vessel.

Before writing this comment, I had a few other possible explanations in mind that were more unsubstantiated and out there. For example, I thought of the possibility that Nakoshi had forgotten not only his face but also his real name. Even in such a case, I thought that the woman wasn’t Nanako, but rather another woman that Nakoshi was with besides Nanako. However, writing my thoughts like this helped me settle upon the conclusion I outlined above, particularly when I connected that their conversation was similar to Nakoshi’s with other homunculi. That realization brings it all together.

That woman was simply yet another person with a mirrored trauma to Nakoshi’s, like every other homunculus before her. They were both on opposite sides of abandoning / being abandoned by the only person they believed accepted them despite their looks. For Nakoshi, this formed feelings of regret, self-pity, and hollowness, while for the woman it cemented her feeling that men were shallow and could not see through to her heart. Their reasonings for surgery were mirrored too — Nakoshi got surgery to escape his situation after failing to realize what he did have while the woman got surgery to cope with her situation out of fear for what she didn’t have. Both dealt with this trauma by becoming compulsive liars in the aftermath. Ultimately, it became a tragic story where they are both willing to accept one final lie to give themselves false hope of finding someone who can see their true selves. You’re free to disagree, but this is my interpretation of the true nature of their relationship.
@k0rvus Very well said i agree with you on all.

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