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Apr 22, 2023 1:02 PM
#1
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Jun 2020
66
Why did aunt say all that dark stuff when Minister/Sadaijin came out?

If cats are Yin and Yang and Minister being "the evil/Yin" did his presence just make those feelings surface?
Because at first I thought that Minister intentionally made her say all that or pretended to be her, especially since she suddenly collapsed afterwards. Or was she just exhausted/overwhelmed after feeling all that?

Additionally, since Minister in small form is black and white in big form, isn't he actually Yang instead of Yin, essentially making him "the good" and not "the bad" ? That makes sense while looking at selfish behaviour of white cat Daijin/Regent. If so, why did he make negative emotions of Tamaki appear?
Apr 22, 2023 1:35 PM
#2
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May 2022
1
Also found this confusing..
Apr 22, 2023 2:04 PM
#3
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Sep 2021
18
i personally feel that it was her exhaustion making her vulnerable to the cat’s influence by accident, but she also mentions that sometimes she did feel that way. Because she was so tired she didn’t have the mental fortitude to censor herself or to think before she spoke.
Apr 22, 2023 3:08 PM
#4

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Mar 2018
95
To get revenge on Suzume for what she did to Saijin maybe.
To reject someone who has helped them actually
Apr 22, 2023 9:17 PM
#5
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Jun 2021
77
Whatever her aunt said is actually her true feelings. She later says suzume that she have felt that way but that's the not the only thing she have felt (meaning she have felt much more positive than negative) . Also suzume replies same on the bike.
Apr 23, 2023 12:05 AM
#6
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Jun 2020
66
Yes, I know she sometimes felt like that. That's not the question I'm asking.

operanerd said:
i personally feel that it was her exhaustion making her vulnerable to the cat’s influence by accident,

But that's what I wonder about - why did the cat influence her? And introducing itself through her seems like possession to me...
Apr 23, 2023 12:47 AM
#7
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Sep 2021
18
PartTimeSteiner said:
Yes, I know she sometimes felt like that. That's not the question I'm asking.

operanerd said:
i personally feel that it was her exhaustion making her vulnerable to the cat’s influence by accident,

But that's what I wonder about - why did the cat influence her? And introducing itself through her seems like possession to me...

that’s kinda how I see it too, it kinda just hit me that maybe the cats were trying to get the aunt to go away so they could have Suzume to themselves, so she wouldn’t have anything interfering with them
Apr 23, 2023 8:59 AM
#8
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Sep 2021
4
I thought that maybe Sadaijin was testing Suzume whether she has the mettle to see restoring Daijin and Sadaijin as keystones through all the way. By exposing her to her aunt's true feelings that touch on some of Suzume's greatest insecurities, he could see how she would react when things got really tough. Suzume passed by pushing back on the aunt's hurtful words and probably also by recognizing that something else was causing her aunt to act that way.

We see that, after this, Sadaijin was satisfied to accompany Suzume after that without further attacks on her, and its one line after that scene was to state that its purpose was to restore things to their rightful place or something like that if I remember, indicating its sole mission may have been to restore both Daijin and itself as keystones. Everything it does can perhaps be interpreted through this lens is my thought, hence my thought that the aunt's words were a test for Suzume.

As an additional note, I believe the song that plays during this scene is called "Possessed" in the soundtrack listing.
Apr 23, 2023 6:15 PM
#9
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Jul 2016
17
PartTimeSteiner said:
Why did aunt say all that dark stuff when Minister/Sadaijin came out?

If cats are Yin and Yang and Minister being "the evil/Yin" did his presence just make those feelings surface?
Because at first I thought that Minister intentionally made her say all that or pretended to be her, especially since she suddenly collapsed afterwards. Or was she just exhausted/overwhelmed after feeling all that?

Additionally, since Minister in small form is black and white in big form, isn't he actually Yang instead of Yin, essentially making him "the good" and not "the bad" ? That makes sense while looking at selfish behaviour of white cat Daijin/Regent. If so, why did he make negative emotions of Tamaki appear?

Agreed, it also felt like it came out of no where
May 8, 2023 9:35 PM

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Dec 2014
1017
To help them confront their trauma and move on (which is part of the message of the movie). None of the two is 'good' or 'evil'. Yin Yang doesn't mean good vs evil, is just two forces - they can be anything, for example, male and female, fear and courage, love and hatred, and yes good and evil - but as forces that exist into a whole, not as a conflict or something opposing each other. So Sadaijin isn't bad just like Daijin isn't good. Sadaijin is Daijin's superior though. He comes to pick Daijin up and makes him go back to his duty. So his power may have to do with that - the fact that the aunt and Suzume didn't open their hearts and confront their pain and trauma, made him force them to. At the same time, because he is they indeed are representations of Yin and Yang, they have passive abilities. Daijin can garner admiration and gives blessings (all of Suzume's encounters and help she got from strangers, are the result of Daijin helping her reach her destination).  So, Sadaijin, representing Yin, it would make sense that his passive abilities work more on the negative emotion side of things... but is not a curse or an evil ability, is for the better, because while the aunt said some hurtful words, and so did Suzume, in the end opening up to each other and releasing those bottled up emotions, got them closer to each other.
May 9, 2023 2:13 PM
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Jun 2020
66
kronopy said:
To help them confront their trauma and move on (which is part of the message of the movie). None of the two is 'good' or 'evil'. Yin Yang doesn't mean good vs evil, is just two forces - they can be anything, for example, male and female, fear and courage, love and hatred, and yes good and evil - but as forces that exist into a whole, not as a conflict or something opposing each other. So Sadaijin isn't bad just like Daijin isn't good. Sadaijin is Daijin's superior though. He comes to pick Daijin up and makes him go back to his duty. So his power may have to do with that - the fact that the aunt and Suzume didn't open their hearts and confront their pain and trauma, made him force them to. At the same time, because he is they indeed are representations of Yin and Yang, they have passive abilities. Daijin can garner admiration and gives blessings (all of Suzume's encounters and help she got from strangers, are the result of Daijin helping her reach her destination).  So, Sadaijin, representing Yin, it would make sense that his passive abilities work more on the negative emotion side of things... but is not a curse or an evil ability, is for the better, because while the aunt said some hurtful words, and so did Suzume, in the end opening up to each other and releasing those bottled up emotions, got them closer to each other.

thanks, that's interesting analysis/interpretation
Jul 20, 2023 2:48 AM

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Feb 2016
57
kronopy said:
To help them confront their trauma and move on (which is part of the message of the movie). None of the two is 'good' or 'evil'. Yin Yang doesn't mean good vs evil, is just two forces - they can be anything, for example, male and female, fear and courage, love and hatred, and yes good and evil - but as forces that exist into a whole, not as a conflict or something opposing each other. So Sadaijin isn't bad just like Daijin isn't good. Sadaijin is Daijin's superior though. He comes to pick Daijin up and makes him go back to his duty. So his power may have to do with that - the fact that the aunt and Suzume didn't open their hearts and confront their pain and trauma, made him force them to. At the same time, because he is they indeed are representations of Yin and Yang, they have passive abilities. Daijin can garner admiration and gives blessings (all of Suzume's encounters and help she got from strangers, are the result of Daijin helping her reach her destination).  So, Sadaijin, representing Yin, it would make sense that his passive abilities work more on the negative emotion side of things... but is not a curse or an evil ability, is for the better, because while the aunt said some hurtful words, and so did Suzume, in the end opening up to each other and releasing those bottled up emotions, got them closer to each other.


holy shit!, masterpiece explanation
Oct 2, 2023 8:12 AM
Offline
Oct 2023
1
Reply to kronopy
To help them confront their trauma and move on (which is part of the message of the movie). None of the two is 'good' or 'evil'. Yin Yang doesn't mean good vs evil, is just two forces - they can be anything, for example, male and female, fear and courage, love and hatred, and yes good and evil - but as forces that exist into a whole, not as a conflict or something opposing each other. So Sadaijin isn't bad just like Daijin isn't good. Sadaijin is Daijin's superior though. He comes to pick Daijin up and makes him go back to his duty. So his power may have to do with that - the fact that the aunt and Suzume didn't open their hearts and confront their pain and trauma, made him force them to. At the same time, because he is they indeed are representations of Yin and Yang, they have passive abilities. Daijin can garner admiration and gives blessings (all of Suzume's encounters and help she got from strangers, are the result of Daijin helping her reach her destination).  So, Sadaijin, representing Yin, it would make sense that his passive abilities work more on the negative emotion side of things... but is not a curse or an evil ability, is for the better, because while the aunt said some hurtful words, and so did Suzume, in the end opening up to each other and releasing those bottled up emotions, got them closer to each other.
kronopy said:
To help them confront their trauma and move on (which is part of the message of the movie). None of the two is 'good' or 'evil'. Yin Yang doesn't mean good vs evil, is just two forces - they can be anything, for example, male and female, fear and courage, love and hatred, and yes good and evil - but as forces that exist into a whole, not as a conflict or something opposing each other. So Sadaijin isn't bad just like Daijin isn't good. Sadaijin is Daijin's superior though. He comes to pick Daijin up and makes him go back to his duty. So his power may have to do with that - the fact that the aunt and Suzume didn't open their hearts and confront their pain and trauma, made him force them to. At the same time, because he is they indeed are representations of Yin and Yang, they have passive abilities. Daijin can garner admiration and gives blessings (all of Suzume's encounters and help she got from strangers, are the result of Daijin helping her reach her destination).  So, Sadaijin, representing Yin, it would make sense that his passive abilities work more on the negative emotion side of things... but is not a curse or an evil ability, is for the better, because while the aunt said some hurtful words, and so did Suzume, in the end opening up to each other and releasing those bottled up emotions, got them closer to each other.


Good analysis.
In addition, sadaijin wanted to 'punish' suzume for her behavior against daijin and teach her words have meaning. At the beginning when daijin appears at Suzume's window, she casually tells him she likes him and something like 'will you become my cat?', which makes him glow as he accepts it. This is similar to what her aunt tells Suzume's four year old self: 'will you become my child?' (actually I think that in Japanese they even use the same word in both cases).

Later in the movie, Suzume rejects daijin and tells him she hates him, to which he withers. Besides wanting to clear the air between Suzume and her aunt, sadaijin also uses the aunt's words to make Suzume feel the rejection she caused daijin. The moral is - words have consequences. If you tell someone you're going to take care of him, you have to stick to it regardless of what happens.
Dec 11, 2023 4:23 PM

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Jul 2021
1571
I really like many of the interesting readings here. But I am still not sure if the scene itself was intended to have any of those effects.

1. Sadaijin wanted to bring the negative emotions of Suzume and Tamaki out in the open in order to repair their relationship

That was the outcome of their argument, sure. But what was the motivation for Sadaijin to make that happen? Why does Sadaijin care about these two at all?

Sadaijin just popped out of nowhere, and after this scene he never really contributes anything to the characters and their relationships, just the plot. Did he really act from a place of love for the characters?

2. Sadaijin wanted to "test" Suzume

Again, why would Sadaijin want to do this? What is he testing for, exactly?

Does a person's "character" or relationship struggles play a role in sealing the doors? There wasn't any indication of this when Suzume was sealing the other doors earlier.

3. Sadaijin/Daijin, who are spiritual beings of an unknowable nature ("yin and yang"), can influence the mortals in strange ways, either positively or negatively

This is the most believable explanation for their possible motives, in my opinion.

But Sadaijin and Daijin never have this kind of effect on any other characters at other points in the story. Their actions throughout the whole movie are to provoke and help the main characters on their mission, and any changes that the characters go through come from the process of accomplishing that mission.

---

I don't really think any of these really mesh with what actually happens in the movie.

Unfortunately, I just think the writer wanted to tackle Suzume's and Tamaki's relationship at this point in the story, but didn't think it was happening naturally no matter how he wrote it, so he had to resort to a spiritual possession to force the conversation.

I don't see how this "fixes the problem", and I don't even think there is a problem to fix. By this point there were several scenes already where Tamaki was worried about and frustrated with Suzume, so while the exact words may have come across a little extreme, it would not have been a reach to have Tamaki blow up on Suzume here. Tamaki even admits in a later scene that she did harbor those feelings of resentment. The scene would have worked fine even without Sadaijin interfering.

I had this constant feeling throughout the entire movie that the story and characters were pushed around in whatever direction as needed without a satisfying explanation, and I think this scene fell into the same pattern.

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