do we really desire freedom or we just want the illusion of free choice?

Sep 6, 2022 2:27 AM

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Nov 2020

why despite calling ourselves free we fall for the same manipulation over and over again? Telling ourselves we need to rebuild civilization x or y way to achieve freedom and equity so people get brainwashed, defend adamantly and vote for the one ideology they subjectively think is the better one (this goes for the whole sociopolitical spectrum), when in reality the problem resides in thinking that civilization isnt just an unfair but necessary evil for the evolution of human kind. So what’s the point of having to chose freely when you are going to do what x conditioned you to do

Sep 6, 2022 4:08 AM

Adampk

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Feb 2020

5794

Imo every human in shackles of their life experience and reality. Freedom is desire for convenience pronounced is more meaningful way.

Illusion of freedom is only suffocating if it causes inconvenience. Otherwise illusion of freedom is freedom itself

AdampkSep 6, 2022 4:35 AM

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Sep 6, 2022 4:20 AM

AndroidLB

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Jan 2021

115

What's the point of anything. If a choice you make makes a difference, isn't that already freedom. You have chosen to do it and effect things around you. We just can't control the other freewills around us. These other wills effect your choices, and after this cycle continues long enough we arrive at a point, where your choice comes to what you want it to be or it only moves further from your objective.

We just simply can't be completely free if we're in relationship with others. This would mean only in point of absolute entropy we would be completely free from everything. So I say that every choice is free but the choices effects can't always be effective, which in hand only limits your choices to only those that you think would make the best outcome.

I believe that everything you ever do should always be helpful to you and others. Only then can we arrive to point where everyone would be happy.

Sep 6, 2022 4:50 AM

deg

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Jan 2009

102244

free will is an illusion

even science says quantum mechanics is incomplete and its actually super determinism so nope quantum mechanics is not probabilistic to allow free will

btw why is this thread here and not in casual discussion section? or is this thread related to the anime Angels Egg? because you put it here

Sep 6, 2022 7:44 AM

murisio

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Nov 2020

deg said:
free will is an illusion

even science says quantum mechanics is incomplete and its actually super determinism so nope quantum mechanics is not probabilistic to allow free will

btw why is this thread here and not in casual discussion section? or is this thread related to the anime Angels Egg? because you put it here

tbh idek why i decided to write it in the first place let alone why put it here xddd

Sep 6, 2022 7:46 AM

deg

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Jan 2009

102244

murisio said:

tbh idek why i decided to write it in the first place let alone why put it here xddd

lol welp ok also google emergence

there are some experts saying free will is an emergent property or phenomenon so if true then free will is not just simply an illusion

emergentism is against reductionsim

Emergence – How Stupid Things Become Smart Together https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16W7c0mb-rE

Sep 6, 2022 7:58 AM

murisio

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Nov 2020

AndroidLB said:
What's the point of anything. If a choice you make makes a difference, isn't that already freedom. You have chosen to do it and effect things around you. We just can't control the other freewills around us. These other wills effect your choices, and after this cycle continues long enough we arrive at a point, where your choice comes to what you want it to be or it only moves further from your objective.

We just simply can't be completely free if we're in relationship with others. This would mean only in point of absolute entropy we would be completely free from everything. So I say that every choice is free but the choices effects can't always be effective, which in hand only limits your choices to only those that you think would make the best outcome.

I believe that everything you ever do should always be helpful to you and others. Only then can we arrive to point where everyone would be happy.

it really doesnt matter, free or not you are still human and idk function as such, and yeah in the societal perspective we simply cannot be free and we havev to do stuff thats also helpful for the ones that live in society with us @deg found the explanation of this "hive-like" phenomenon

deg said:

there are some experts saying free will is an emergent property or phenomenon so if true then free will is not just simply an illusion

emergentism is against reductionsim

Emergence – How Stupid Things Become Smart Together https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16W7c0mb-rE

Sep 6, 2022 8:10 AM

deg

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Jan 2009

102244

@murisio

yep the hive-like phenomenon is emergence, so same with our billions of neurons forming an emergence called mind or consciousness so free will is part of that too according to some experts

Sep 17, 2022 3:41 PM

skttrbrain_

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Dec 2021

the question of free will, simultaneously the most and least important question ever.

I'd argue that we are all products of our environment and our past. and in that sense free will is just an illusion. But at the end of the day, if our pasts and environments have determined we will put in the effort to change the old around us for the better, to help those struggling and to get out of bed in the morning, that's not a bad thing.

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do we really desire freedom or we just want the illusion of free choice?

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