New
May 1, 2022 7:13 AM
#2
| Nothing yet. There's still the 2nd cour but I doubt anything will happen |
May 1, 2022 7:14 AM
#3
| Nothing yet. There's still the 2nd cour but I doubt anything will happen |
May 1, 2022 7:38 AM
#4
Ri-iel said: Nothing yet. There's still the 2nd cour but I doubt anything will happen With this duo thing and GravityMan I was very disappointed and even insecure, given the construction of their relationship in the first season and movie that I think is one of the best things and I hope this is not ignored and I still strongly root for this couple |
May 2, 2022 12:07 PM
#5
| im not sure if there was a canon ending to the relationship, id assume the reason they got rid of it was because it was creepy as fuck blue rose is a high schooler and tigers like a 40 year old man |
May 2, 2022 2:16 PM
#6
jimmyfishhands said: im not sure if there was a canon ending to the relationship, id assume the reason they got rid of it was because it was creepy as fuck blue rose is a high schooler and tigers like a 40 year old man She's not a schoolgirl anymore and he's not as old as he looks |
May 2, 2022 2:53 PM
#7
| just checked the wiki. as of s2, blue rose is 19 and tiger is 38. i was wrong about rose being in high school, but thats still creepy as hell |
May 2, 2022 6:10 PM
#8
jimmyfishhands said: just checked the wiki. as of s2, blue rose is 19 and tiger is 38. i was wrong about rose being in high school, but thats still creepy as hell Agree with the 2-posts-man. |
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May 3, 2022 6:28 AM
#9
| As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. |
May 3, 2022 7:27 AM
#10
jimmyfishhands said: just checked the wiki. as of s2, blue rose is 19 and tiger is 38. i was wrong about rose being in high school, but thats still creepy as hell rose was 16 in s1, its literally crazy if kotetsu went after someone he met as a child. they also probs wont have tiger and bunny get romances since their own relationship with each other is canonically open to the viewer to be seen as romantic or platonic. |
May 3, 2022 10:48 AM
#11
LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. Oh sure, screw the character development, the chemistry and etc... All that matters is that if they are of similar ages it's ok. Okay buddy, watch Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju before having these superficial opinions. If there was to be a supposed romance implied and not develop anything with it, then it was better not to do it and even could have done it as a way of developing the character but not doing that with Koutetsu who is the protagonist, the presence of Blue Rose was important in some moments of the first season and I don't want them not to do anything with it, or keep feeding false hopes and if it was meant to be like that it would be better not to have done it.In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. Koi wa ameagari no you ni. Is one of them I don't know what anime you watched but Ryan and Karina is not attractive and much less has chemistry, the guy appeared in the movie to be an asshole and then they put him in the series to be a step/extra and play a development anything to gain sympathy from the viewer that's a tremendous poverty of plot. Write anything a sad story for a character just to be okay and with that gain sympathy and with that validate him with a good character, sorry if you think he's a good character he is not and never will be, he's just a superficial character who put them as an extra and gave a cliché and generic development. |
LeidTHMay 3, 2022 2:55 PM
May 4, 2022 4:53 AM
#12
| I'm also damn upset that apparently the creators seem chose not to develop the relationship between Rose and Tiger. Despite the age difference, these were the two who were very interesting to watch. And in the first season, Karina's love for Kotetsu was very noticeable. And now all this development has just been thrown in the trash. P S there are a lot of real couples with a much bigger age difference. |
May 4, 2022 6:39 AM
#13
4Trevos said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. Oh sure, screw the character development, the chemistry and etc... All that matters is that if they are of similar ages it's ok. Okay buddy, watch Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju before having these superficial opinions. If there was to be a supposed romance implied and not develop anything with it, then it was better not to do it and even could have done it as a way of developing the character but not doing that with Koutetsu who is the protagonist, the presence of Blue Rose was important in some moments of the first season and I don't want them not to do anything with it, or keep feeding false hopes and if it was meant to be like that it would be better not to have done it.In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. Koi wa ameagari no you ni. Is one of them I don't know what anime you watched but Ryan and Karina is not attractive and much less has chemistry, the guy appeared in the movie to be an asshole and then they put him in the series to be a step/extra and play a development anything to gain sympathy from the viewer that's a tremendous poverty of plot. Write anything a sad story for a character just to be okay and with that gain sympathy and with that validate him with a good character, sorry if you think he's a good character he is not and never will be, he's just a superficial character who put them as an extra and gave a cliché and generic development. Just because Karina's crush is fading, doesn't mean that the character development and relationship with Kotetsu itself is gone. She still cares about him and respects him, and it was her crush on him that allowed him to get through Maverick's memory erasing. This is all true, but that doesn't mean that their relationship automatically must be a romantic one, especially because Kotetsu never once viewed Karina in a romantic light. He has always treated her in the same way he treated his own daughter and the other younger heroes. He views himself as a mentor to her. I cannot think of a single moment between the two of them where Kotetsu expressed or showed any romantic feelings or interest in her. Men and women can care about each other in various ways and platonically as well. The fact that teen crushes tend to hit hard and disappear just as fast is also very realistic and lines up with what we are seeing in S2 with Karina and her crush on Kotetsu. As for Ryan, I like him for Karina not solely because he is closer to her in age, but because they have a more interesting and engaging dynamic and Ryan views her as an equal. That being said, I'm also totally cool with the idea of Karina and Ryan just being besties and Karina staying single. That would be neat too. Moreso than Ryan though, Barnaby and Kotetsu's relationship is the main reason why nothing is likely to happen in regards to Karina's crush on Kotetsu. As I stated, most of the staff ships Kotetsu and Barnaby together, and the franchise is huge within the fujoshi crowd. So, Kotetsu and Karina happening would go against most of the staff's views of the characters and lose the core demographic for the franchise, so from a financial prospective it would be a bad and costly narrative choice to make. As for other anime and manga series, they don't matter here. We are talking about Tiger & Bunny, not another series, so I won't comment on any of that. If you respond to this, I will read it, but I likely won't respond back because I've said all I have to say on the matter, and we obviously don't agree. |
May 4, 2022 7:48 AM
#14
LilyGinnyBlack1 said: 4Trevos said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. Oh sure, screw the character development, the chemistry and etc... All that matters is that if they are of similar ages it's ok. Okay buddy, watch Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju before having these superficial opinions. If there was to be a supposed romance implied and not develop anything with it, then it was better not to do it and even could have done it as a way of developing the character but not doing that with Koutetsu who is the protagonist, the presence of Blue Rose was important in some moments of the first season and I don't want them not to do anything with it, or keep feeding false hopes and if it was meant to be like that it would be better not to have done it.In fact, there are several novels where the ages are different and there is no problem with that. Koi wa ameagari no you ni. Is one of them I don't know what anime you watched but Ryan and Karina is not attractive and much less has chemistry, the guy appeared in the movie to be an asshole and then they put him in the series to be a step/extra and play a development anything to gain sympathy from the viewer that's a tremendous poverty of plot. Write anything a sad story for a character just to be okay and with that gain sympathy and with that validate him with a good character, sorry if you think he's a good character he is not and never will be, he's just a superficial character who put them as an extra and gave a cliché and generic development. Just because Karina's crush is fading, doesn't mean that the character development and relationship with Kotetsu itself is gone. She still cares about him and respects him, and it was her crush on him that allowed him to get through Maverick's memory erasing. This is all true, but that doesn't mean that their relationship automatically must be a romantic one, especially because Kotetsu never once viewed Karina in a romantic light. He has always treated her in the same way he treated his own daughter and the other younger heroes. He views himself as a mentor to her. I cannot think of a single moment between the two of them where Kotetsu expressed or showed any romantic feelings or interest in her. Men and women can care about each other in various ways and platonically as well. The fact that teen crushes tend to hit hard and disappear just as fast is also very realistic and lines up with what we are seeing in S2 with Karina and her crush on Kotetsu. As for Ryan, I like him for Karina not solely because he is closer to her in age, but because they have a more interesting and engaging dynamic and Ryan views her as an equal. That being said, I'm also totally cool with the idea of Karina and Ryan just being besties and Karina staying single. That would be neat too. Moreso than Ryan though, Barnaby and Kotetsu's relationship is the main reason why nothing is likely to happen in regards to Karina's crush on Kotetsu. As I stated, most of the staff ships Kotetsu and Barnaby together, and the franchise is huge within the fujoshi crowd. So, Kotetsu and Karina happening would go against most of the staff's views of the characters and lose the core demographic for the franchise, so from a financial prospective it would be a bad and costly narrative choice to make. As for other anime and manga series, they don't matter here. We are talking about Tiger & Bunny, not another series, so I won't comment on any of that. If you respond to this, I will read it, but I likely won't respond back because I've said all I have to say on the matter, and we obviously don't agree. Anime industry working to please the fujoshi. Lol this was the worst bullshit I've read all day and it comes from someone who doesn't know how the anime industry works these days. And as for the other works, it's YES very valid to bring them to the agenda because they deal precisely with what you're talking about relationships in which age is very different, you just avoid it because you don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject, let alone watched the anime in question, so you don't have any property to say that their age is an obstacle because it's not. |
May 4, 2022 7:51 AM
#15
Akagi-kun said: I'm also damn upset that apparently the creators seem chose not to develop the relationship between Rose and Tiger. Despite the age difference, these were the two who were very interesting to watch. And in the first season, Karina's love for Kotetsu was very noticeable. And now all this development has just been thrown in the trash. P S there are a lot of real couples with a much bigger age difference. It's going to be really sad because one of the best things as you said was the interactions between them and that was a fundamental part of the first season. I don't like it when the creator is joking and deceiving the viewer just to get the attention of the people who sometimes only watch for that and then do nothing with it, that kind of thing we expect from a shounen and not a "seinen" . |
LeidTHMay 4, 2022 7:54 AM
May 4, 2022 11:12 PM
#16
4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... |
May 5, 2022 2:03 PM
#17
| Y'all are weird, the intended couple was always Kotetsu and Barnaby. Writers treat their characters with integrity and they wouldn't make Kotetsu and Karina canon, because of age difference and because Kotetsu sees her as a kouhai (and daughter). Not all straight ships need to be canon. Some can be just friends. Also Karina and Ryan have far better dynamics. |
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May 5, 2022 2:12 PM
#18
Akagi-kun said: 4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... Also, SJW as a word these days isn't used anymore in day-to-day conversations it's not 2012 anymore when it was acceptable. Go learn about LGBTQ+ representation, queer coding, ContraPoints, and other things. |
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May 5, 2022 4:35 PM
#19
Y'all are weird, the intended couple was always Kotetsu and Barnaby. Also Karina and Ryan have far better dynamics. Just no. Forced dynamics that parachuted into the series. Ryan is not and will never be a good character, because as I already mentioned he is just an extra in the series who fell by parachute and had a generic development just to gain sympathy and logically he shouldn't even be in this series see the movie the Rising. |
May 5, 2022 4:39 PM
#20
Akagi-kun said: 4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... Also, SJW as a word these days isn't used anymore in day-to-day conversations it's not 2012 anymore when it was acceptable. Go learn about LGBTQ+ representation, queer coding, ContraPoints, and other things. Don't force your identity politics standards into an anime. Animes are works of entertainment and not a political platform to raise flags or even support them. |
May 6, 2022 12:24 AM
#21
LeidTH said: Akagi-kun said: 4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... Also, SJW as a word these days isn't used anymore in day-to-day conversations it's not 2012 anymore when it was acceptable. Go learn about LGBTQ+ representation, queer coding, ContraPoints, and other things. Don't force your identity politics standards into an anime. Animes are works of entertainment and not a political platform to raise flags or even support them. Identity politics aren't politics (if you learn more about it and do not watch it through politicians' lense or voting for specific laws, after all, it is about people and it's about building empathy). Also if you want to know about issues in Japan feel free to read articles on here https://unseenjapan.com/ Also there are pretty decent documentaries on YouTube too, about issues in Japan that are not that different from the rest of the world. |
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May 6, 2022 12:28 AM
#22
LeidTH said: Y'all are weird, the intended couple was always Kotetsu and Barnaby. Also Karina and Ryan have far better dynamics. Just no. Forced dynamics that parachuted into the series. Ryan is not and will never be a good character, because as I already mentioned he is just an extra in the series who fell by parachute and had a generic development just to gain sympathy and logically he shouldn't even be in this series see the movie the Rising. Ryan is a specific character, he is supposed to be this "asshole" archetype and so far in agency, we didn't have this type. So Ryan is a welcome edition. His scenes are endearing and for the archetype he is, Ryan is pretty fun character. Plus in season 2 we got introduced to a few new characters, it would be amiss not to have Ryan there who has such a nice superhero outfit. I don't remember how movie ended I watched it 5 years ago or so. |
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Jun 25, 2022 2:03 AM
#23
| Y'know they could pull some really wack story line where Kotetsu somehow pulls an interstellar and him end up somewhere where time is slowed or something and comes back 10 years later. As much as I like the characters and the Idea of them together is nice, it is still... creepy with the age gap. |
Jul 14, 2022 2:24 PM
#24
| Ah, another thread where western fans try to talk like experts about anime ships from the point of view of western morality. |
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Jul 14, 2022 2:29 PM
#25
JuusanKitsune said: Akagi-kun said: 4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... Also, SJW as a word these days isn't used anymore in day-to-day conversations it's not 2012 anymore when it was acceptable. Go learn about LGBTQ+ representation, queer coding, ContraPoints, and other things. It was the snowflakes who decided it was no longer used because it was offensive to them. For the same reason, neo-Nazis have become salty because of the word "fascist". Also, it's quite ironic to hear "sometimes people are just friends" from fujoshi. In many ways. Akagi-kun said: 4Trevos said: the creator this series now get SJW vibes, so it's just too naive to keep believing for something more, given that the season 2 from Netflix... This is a bit of a misunderstanding that was caused by the English translators changing a few lines to make the characters sound more "progressive". |
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Aug 28, 2022 9:32 PM
#26
LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. queer coding? homoerotic subtext? what the heck you talking about. Its never comes off that way in the first season and the movie after that. |
souledge94Aug 28, 2022 9:37 PM
Aug 30, 2022 3:04 AM
#27
souledge94 said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. queer coding? homoerotic subtext? what the heck you talking about. Its never comes off that way in the first season and the movie after that. TV Tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TigerAndBunny Things of note from that page are the parallels between Barnaby & Tomoe (which are continued through to Season 2, with the shot we get of Kotetsu's shelf that has the photos of his & Tomoe's marriage, the birth of Kaede, and then him, Kaede, and Barnaby + the parallels made between Barnaby being in the hospital and Tomoe being in the hospital). Edit: The below texts are taken directly from the TV Tropes page (they aren't my direct words). The drama CD indicates that Kotetsu's high-school sweetheart (and eventual wife) was a Meganekko at the top of her class. Sound familiar? (From Kotetsu's interview with Hero Gossip): "I like a woman who scolds me when I’m slacking off but is kind when the times are tough. [...] But Bunny always scolds me, saying “You could have read the instructions yourself, you know"." Not to mention how Kotetsu gave both of them silly nicknames when he first met them. The parallels become more pronounced in Episode 17, when Barnaby repeats some of Tomoe's words almost verbatim. (Comment on Episode 17 in Hero TV Fan Book 2): "Barnaby's words on TV bring back memories of Tomoe, who said the same thing on her deathbed." As well as the comments from the staff and information from official fanbooks, guides, etc. : This episode is chock-full of it, with Kotetsu making a meal for Barnaby (which is described in HeroTV Fan Book 2 as "The rice packed with Kotetsu's love detonates!") According to Matsui, if Kotetsu had actually died, Barnaby would never have recovered from the trauma. Many Word of God comments (Barnaby prioritizes Kotetsu's safety above everything else; Kotetsu was more or less teetering on the verge of depression before Barnaby showed up; Barnaby's relationship with Kotetsu is the first emotional connection he's made with a human being in two decades; Nishida put way more thought into the Barnaby-Kotetsu rescue scenes than he probably ought to have; etc.) Regarding the bridal carry scenarios: (From the Roman Album): (About the first "princess rescue") If they had been a man and a woman, they would have fallen in love right then. But with "Ojisan" and "Handsome"...(laughs) (From Monthly Hero 6): The first princess carry was the start of their love [Note: The exact phrase was 馴れ初め (The first meeting of the people who later end up in a romantic relationship. The occasion of falling in love. Start of a romance. Beginning of love.)]. It's indicated that Karina considers Barnaby her rival, and her thoughts are described like this: "Because he is Kotetsu’s precious partner, there's a lot about their closeness that worries her". Comments from the staff: Matsui (Producer): (About the two after the events of Episode 25) "Barnaby is slightly tsun (it’s his nature), but they understand and trust each other so thoroughly that sometimes words aren’t even needed." Masafumi Nishida (Writer): "After [Barnaby] opened up to Kotetsu (as we see at the start of the second cour), he was very happy; and being the "love is blind" type, he was prone to overlooking Kotetsu's faults." (Regarding Kotetsu and Barnaby after the final timeskip, addressing what he'd like to show in the sequel, should there be one) "Their struggle to lead their lives together might be one of the things we'd like to portray." Fukuda Nobuaki: "After his parents got killed, Barnaby became twisted and closed his heart—but here comes the amazing Tiger, embracing Barnaby with his great love! When it comes to the human relationships, in the end, it simply really is just “love”, isn’t it?" Okamoto Nobuhiko: "They build up so many things between them, I think they’ll stay together for the rest of their lives." (From an interview with Katsuhisa Houki and Hiroshi Iwasaki): "Barnaby is an eccentric, but considering his history and what he shoulders it's probably inevitable. But Kotetsu truly is deeply attached to everything about him, his weirdness and issues included. [...] Both of them long to be told that they are indispensable for the other. Hirata Hiroaki: But you know, I think that for Kotetsu every face of Barnaby’s personality is good—be it his tsun or his dere." Kaida Yuuko: "When Maverick started getting involved with those two, I couldn't help but snicker. I mean, just look at that dangerous love triangle." Hidaka Rina: "That's right! It really seemed like another guy inserting himself between the two lovers. Just what do you call this sort of relationship?" Keiji Andou: "One of the jokingly proposed names for Kotetsu and Barnaby's combined bike form was the "Couple Chaser". Ozaki has stated that Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship is left open to the viewers' interpretations, and that the ambiguity has been intentional since the very beginning. Basically; if you think of it as being romantic, that's correct. If, on the other hand, you think of it as Bromance, that's also correct. From an interview with producers Matsui and Tamura: Matsui: "If we consider the perspective of the main target audience, which is adult men in their thirties, then wouldn't they be happy to have a young male colleague yearning for them?" Tamura: "They would?" Matsui: "And why wouldn't they? Don't you get this impression that a man beloved by somebody of the same sex must be much cooler than a man beloved by somebody of the opposite sex?" "The two of them are apart precisely because they love each other." (互いに思い合う仲) —Anchorwoman on national television, during the series' feature in Fuji TV morning program. Note: the primary use of the phrase, "longing for each other", "being in love", is to describe relationships in a non-platonic meaning. Excerpts from the official guides and fan books: (From the Illustration Book): (Regarding Barnaby in the second half) He didn’t go dere or anything, it was love. (From the pamphlet of HERO AWARDS 2011): (About Kotetsu's expression at the end of Episode 24) "Perhaps due to the feelings of relief and safety brought by his partner's embrace, his expression was serene." (From Hero TV Fan Book 2): (About Barnaby's views on their decision to quit in Episode 25) "Kotetsu and him are one in soul and body. He was certain they will come back one day." (About Barnaby) "Usually brimming with easy confidence, Barnaby never reveals his weaknesses to other people. But because of how unparalleled he is, even subtle things can wound him—which resulted in the brittle aspect that is prevalent in his nature. The only people who ever managed to see through this and with whom he interacts without pretense are his trusted family and his precious partner" [Note: The "partner" word used here is wholly civilian, not "aibou" or "paatonaa". The exact phrase was 大切な相手]. (From T&B novelization, Barnaby's narration): "And before I knew it, my thoughts, one after another, were drifting to that man" Barnaby's JP VA has also mentioned a few times during the live stream watches of S2 episodes that he likes how progressive and inclusive the series is and continues to be. Also, the most common and popular pairings, both within the Japanese and international fanbase for both Kotetsu and Karina are Kotetsu x Barnaby and Ryan x Karina. And I feel that makes sense based on all of the subtext we see between both Buddy Pairs. |
LilyGinnyBlack1Aug 30, 2022 2:54 PM
Sep 17, 2022 9:16 PM
#28
LilyGinnyBlack1 said: souledge94 said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. queer coding? homoerotic subtext? what the heck you talking about. Its never comes off that way in the first season and the movie after that. TV Tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TigerAndBunny Things of note from that page are the parallels between Barnaby & Tomoe (which are continued through to Season 2, with the shot we get of Kotetsu's shelf that has the photos of his & Tomoe's marriage, the birth of Kaede, and then him, Kaede, and Barnaby + the parallels made between Barnaby being in the hospital and Tomoe being in the hospital). Edit: The below texts are taken directly from the TV Tropes page (they aren't my direct words). The thing is i'm talking about the show itself and none of this is within the show. This is all other material and some interviews which doesn't mean much when none of it is in the show. This is why I said I dont see the queer coding or homoerotic subtext for these two in the show. |
souledge94Sep 17, 2022 10:13 PM
Sep 17, 2022 10:14 PM
#29
souledge94 said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: souledge94 said: LilyGinnyBlack1 said: As others have mentioned, the age gap and power imbalance of Karina and Kotetsu is too much. It would go into a creepy sexual predator category, given the fact that Karina is only just barely a legal adult in the series now, and their first meeting was when she was still an underaged minor. On top of that, in-series Karina's crush has never been shown to be reciprocated. Kotetsu views and treats Karina the same as Pao-lin and his own daughter. So he views her as the young adult minor that she is (in S1) and the young adult that she is (in S2). He is basically a mentor for her, so she is like a protégée to him. Basically all of the older superheroes have this mentality with the younger ones. I think Karina having a crush on Kotetsu was a fine. It is incredibly common for teen girls to get crushes on adults in their lives, especially mentor ones like teachers, etc. So Karina's crush on Kotetsu makes a lot of sense. I'm just glad that the series doesn't have Kotetsu acting on it. He likely doesn't realize Karina has a crush on him, he is very dense in that way, but even if he did, I don't think he would do anything with it. Or, he would just tell her why a relationship with them wouldn't work. Kotetsu is a nice guy and he is responsible adult in this sense. It's so nice and refreshing to see an anime that actively goes against the usual normalization and romanticization of adult-minor relationships. So, I personally really love that and wouldn't want to see Karina ending up with Kotetsu. Besides, Ryan and Karina have a more compelling relationship, imo. He is also closer to her in age (we don't know his exact age, but he is younger than Barnaby and there was a cameo of him in the first movie - The Beginning, which took place around the start of S1, he looked like an older teen there, so he is probably early 20s). On top of that, he also views and treats Karina as an equal, which Kotetsu has never done. Finally, T&B blew up in popularity and continued to stay successful because of the homoerotic subtext and queer coding of Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship. While the official status of their relationship is still "up to personal interpretation," if you read staff interviews, then it becomes clear that most of them ship Kotetsu and Barnaby together. This second season was even *more* queer coded than Season 1, with Kotetsu and Barnaby practically being a married couple and co-parenting Kaede, etc. So I doubt the staff and creators behind the series are ever going to actually make Kotetsu and Karina canon. The most I can see them doing is either continuing to have Karina grow out of her crush on him (what we are currently seeing in the first half of Season 2) and/or have Kotetsu finally realize that she likes him and him turn her down nicely, allowing her to properly move on from her crush on him. queer coding? homoerotic subtext? what the heck you talking about. Its never comes off that way in the first season and the movie after that. TV Tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TigerAndBunny Things of note from that page are the parallels between Barnaby & Tomoe (which are continued through to Season 2, with the shot we get of Kotetsu's shelf that has the photos of his & Tomoe's marriage, the birth of Kaede, and then him, Kaede, and Barnaby + the parallels made between Barnaby being in the hospital and Tomoe being in the hospital). Edit: The below texts are taken directly from the TV Tropes page (they aren't my direct words). The thing is i'm talking about the show itself and none of this is within the show. This is all side material and some interviews which doesn't mean much when none of it is in the show. This is why I said I dont see the queer coding or homoerotic subtext for these two in the show. It's the staff talking about scenes which were in the show. They are giving their thoughts and insights on the inherent homoerotic and queer aspects of those scenes and moments, as well as Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship in general. Also, things like the audio dramas are well known to the Japanese fanbase (the target audience). So the parallels between Barnaby and Tomoe didn't go unnoticed. This is a parallel that is brought up again, this time directly in-series, in S2 with Barnaby's hospitalization. Things like the song lyrics for the OP and ED being romantic or the fact that you can see Karina viewing Barnaby as a rival for Kotetsu's affection are things found in-series and don't require additional materials. |
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