ableist premise?

Old_School_Akira said:
it looks better than the live action adaptation Japanese film made in 2003, who had the girl who couldn't walk in a baby stroller.


there is another live movie coming this year as well. made in Korea.

Theo1899 said:
My desire to cure the lack of romance films in my life is stronger than any neologism.

peaswar said:
Did anyone feel the premise of the movie appears to be fairly ableist?

Like not only is the concept of a person who uses a wheelchair who is depressed feel cliche and overdone, it's such a common ableist trope regarding people who use wheelchairs: that they're restricted, have worse quality of life, can't be happy, can't find love. The concept of a movie like this one, where an abled person "miraculously" falls in love with them is just so demeaning and degrading, like the implication that disabled ppl can't just find love like everyone else is not only false, but just such an overused ableist trope.

Not to mention the summary on MAL uses the phrase "bound to a wheelchair", which is generally considered poor, outdated phrasing that shouldn't be used.

I wonder if any of the original creators or staff or even advisors on the movie are disabled or use wheelchairs.

It's a shame this movie has to be so problematic bcs its theme and animation are so good.

Markyaaj said:
I would like to say, that you brought up an interesting and for sure a debatable conversation, whether it was in your intention or not, or simply to garner someone else's perspective.

First off, I want to say, you're using the wrong word to describe the film, as ableist means discrimination against those who are disabled, and to call the film ableist without actually discriminating against the disabled is a fallacy and the better-suited word would be, a stereotype: "Worse quality of life, can't be happy, can't find love." So no, the film is not ableist unless it was intentionally supposed to be from the author, but as far as I know, I don't know. If I were to assume if it was intentionally ableist from the author, no.

And secondly, with any story, anything is up for interpretation: regarding the story itself and/or the story's implications. Although it can be seen as much as what you are saying: the story is simply just a trope and is very stereotypical, this does not mean someone else will think the same way. Your approach seems affirmed that it is simply a trope and stereotypical, and if not a hostile approach, as you did not mention that it was your own interpretation, and can be interpreted that it's the truth when really it just an opinion/interpretation. In my own interpretation, it looks to be a love story between an at first caretaker and a tsundere-esque (at least to the caretaker) paraplegic, but I can see where you're getting at.

On another note, I never knew that "bound to a wheelchair" in all honesty was considered to be offensive, but good to know for future reference that it can be considered insensitive, but I see why it would be. Other than that I look forward to this film!

Aleph199X said:
This has to be bait, surely.

Oh wait no there's people who genuinely think like that.

Xesty17 said:
Oooh, shiver me timbers. Bound to a wheelchair is now offensive. So now we're gone from telling minorities what to be offended by to telling people that are BOUND TO A WHEELCHAIR what to be offended by. Are you trying to turn mal into tiktok now? Jesus Christ.

Verelia said:
People have this misconception that people are "stuck" in wheelchairs, when really it's the other way around. Disabled people have our options limited, and mobility devices--canes, crutches, and yes, wheelchairs--actually help disabled people be more independent and have more freedom!

Kijdenvoot said:


we probably should say something exalting like "a person fighting bravely against lower limb challenges who is very strong and admirable for doing so" don't we lmao
like the tendency is with any other disablity (yes, disability, not "challengedness" or whatever)



Nobody's saying the wheelchair itself is the problem, everyone gets it that it means "having to use one is restricting and a problem". Yes, these devices actually help the disabled, but this still means they NEED the help they provide, which IS akin to being bound.

Verelia said:


If people in wheelchairs have said over and over again that "wheelchair-bound" is misleading and offensive, why go to such lengths to defend the phrase? It's as stupid as saying something like "cane-reliant", nobody says that. They just say, the person uses a cane.

This just exemplifies how a wheelchair is like this ubiquitous symbol of helplessness and limitation to able-bodied people. And as long as phrases like "wheelchair-bound" are widely used, the idea of this helplessness persists.

I could link you to articles on the subject or remarks from people who use wheelchairs, but I've got a feeling you (and everyone else in this thread) is far more interested in owning the SJWs or whatever than actually thinking about ableism and how simple phrases can change our perception of people.

And by the way, it's "disabled people", not "the disabled."

Kijdenvoot said:
I would never think a disabled person is inferior to me regardless of whether I, or others, call them "wheelchair-bound" or "brave fighter with leg ordeal".

Verelia said:


But you sure won't actually give a damn about a word I, or any other disabled person, says... the irony lmao

Verelia said:
I agree that the premise of this film is ableist at first glance. I'm withholding judgment til I watch it, but I really don't have high hopes--and that's a shame, because this film looks beautiful and like a lot of love was put into it.

To the commenter above me, being in a wheelchair does not provide "a worse quality of life."

People have this misconception that people are "stuck" in wheelchairs, when really it's the other way around. Disabled people have our options limited, and mobility devices--canes, crutches, and yes, wheelchairs--actually help disabled people be more independent and have more freedom!

This is pretty obvious when you see that Josee has to drag herself around her home on her arms. If her home was wheelchair-accessible, she would be much freer and independent with the use of her wheelchair.

I think the premise could go either way. It's possible that the blurb you can read about it is just oversimplified. It gives off vibes of "Josee's life is crap bc she's disabled, but don't worry, this guy can fix it!". It's the same sort of ableism (yes, ableism, the people in this thread are toxic as hell but it's a real word! with real meaning!) that we see in Yakuza 7 recently, where a guy basically kills himself because being disabled is "dishonorable" and he is too ashamed of being seen in a wheelchair (it's more complicated and not exactly realistic, but the sentiment is there).

People really struggle to believe that disabled folks with all different sorts of conditions can and often do lead rich, meaningful lives. Using a wheelchair--something to HELP you--is not the source of a problem. The problems come from whatever condition you have, and how society is built in ways that exclude you from it (like Josee's house not being wheelchair-accessible, and I'm sure many other places she would like to go).

I think whether this film turns out to be ableist or not depends on how they handle Josee's attitude and how they handle the love interest's attitude towards her. Getting around your own home on your arms would suck, full stop, and probably make a person depressed and annoyed. So I can see that contributing to her mental state. But if they veer too far into the territory of her disability itself making her depressed, that's when it becomes voyeuristic trash for abled people to coo at and go "oh, how did this guy fall in love with this poor, broken girl? he's such a saint!" which may well be what this story is going for. I really hope it isn't.

Disclaimer: I am disabled, but I don't use a wheelchair (it's mostly vision issues for me).

EDIT: I wanted to say, I think part of the problem is also in the English-language reporting about this movie. I was taken aback when I saw the ANN article about it recently--it used extremely ableist language, like the aforementioned "wheelchair-bound"... ANN isn't loading for me rn so I can't check it exactly, but it's possible that part of the problem with the perception of this movie is the way people are talking about it in the West, and where we get our info from. Like, who wrote the MAL description? Who wrote the ANN article? Their translation choices may be a big factor.

peaswar said:

thanks for sharing your opinion and your voice as a disabled person. I had kinda ignored this post after I made it due to the glut of trolls who felt hurt (attacked? confused?) by the fact that someone *dared* to question the possibility that maybe this movie has some elements which are problematic to it.

While i do agree in principle that waiting to watch the movie is a good idea, the ending (ironically spoiled for me by a post on this thread, as well as a different forum post) alone made me cringe as it seems like an abled person's idea of a happy ending for a disabled character.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the posters on this thread don't seem to understand the concept of oppression, even in small ways such as language such as that of the summary, or in the way disabled people are portrayed in media. I'm glad there's at least one reasonable person out here, lol.

peaswar said:

thanks for sharing your opinion and your voice as a disabled person. I had kinda ignored this post after I made it due to the glut of trolls who felt hurt (attacked? confused?) by the fact that someone *dared* to question the possibility that maybe this movie has some elements which are problematic to it.

While i do agree in principle that waiting to watch the movie is a good idea, the ending (ironically spoiled for me by a post on this thread, as well as a different forum post) alone made me cringe as it seems like an abled person's idea of a happy ending for a disabled character.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the posters on this thread don't seem to understand the concept of oppression, even in small ways such as language such as that of the summary, or in the way disabled people are portrayed in media. I'm glad there's at least one reasonable person out here, lol.

Hegar said:
It's so cute when someone does some virtue signaling by parroting the SJW mantras heard in the classroom.

"ableist" LOL

"that they're restricted, have worse quality of life"

You seriously want to claim that sitting in a wheelchair does not mean a person is more restricted, than those who can walk? In that case people could just move around in wheelchairs for the fun of it, if it doesn't restrict.

If it doesn't restrict, why are wheelchair ramps needed? Wheel-chair bound people can't move as fast, can't turn as fast, can't turn around corners as easily. Etc. Etc. Etc. So stop grandstanding.

"have worse quality of life"

If you are more restricted, you, on average, have a worse quality of life than people who are not restricted. You're being ridiculous.

"bound to a wheelchair"

Oh, the HORROR! Yes, when people have to sit in a wheelchair to move around even though they'd prefer to walk, then they are bound to the chair for the sake of moving.

Likewise, it is restricting to have bad eyesight. It is restricting to have a skin problem. It is restricting to be weak. It is restricting to be sick. Etc, etc, etc. People with these issues would rather be without them.

But leftists want to score points at all times by attacking people who observe reality. Those who come up with the leftist B.S. do this for a living - they are "sociology" professors whose job it is to come up with this. "Sociology" counting Karl Marx and other communists like John Marcuse as their founders - it's in the foreword in the first textbook in class.

I'm sorry, did I upset you? Observing reality is upsetting to those who close their eyes. Try to look at things in an unbiased way, bias restricts you.

FueledbyKass said:
I want to watch this but the ableist premise keeps me from doing it. I'm a wheelchair user myself and do agree that the trope of "helpless wheelchair people" is way overdone.

I think many people don't understand that many people are able to lead full lives. I'm about to reach my 30's and I'm pretty content with what I've accomplished thus far; I have a great and stable job, I'm in a PhD program in Chemistry (which in itself is not too wheelchair friendly), and have a full social life. Literally no aspect of me being in a wheelchair makes me feel "helpless", "trapped", "sad' etc.

I can understand why many others are bitter, but I'm lucky that I've been able to accomplish basically anything.

That being said, it really shows that nobody here seems to have had an actual interaction with a disabled person who have fullfilling lives so it is understandable why nobody can understand why film/media in general portray ableist stories. I'll give this movie a chance, just to see how the story plays out but I don't really have much hope- also the movie is set in Japan, where they have really backward ideas about us.

FueledbyKass said:
I want to watch this but the ableist premise keeps me from doing it. I'm a wheelchair user myself and do agree that the trope of "helpless wheelchair people" is way overdone.

I think many people don't understand that many people are able to lead full lives. I'm about to reach my 30's and I'm pretty content with what I've accomplished thus far; I have a great and stable job, I'm in a PhD program in Chemistry (which in itself is not too wheelchair friendly), and have a full social life. Literally no aspect of me being in a wheelchair makes me feel "helpless", "trapped", "sad' etc.

I can understand why many others are bitter, but I'm lucky that I've been able to accomplish basically anything.

That being said, it really shows that nobody here seems to have had an actual interaction with a disabled person who have fullfilling lives so it is understandable why nobody can understand why film/media in general portray ableist stories. I'll give this movie a chance, just to see how the story plays out but I don't really have much hope- also the movie is set in Japan, where they have really backward ideas about us.

peaswar said:
Did anyone feel the premise of the movie appears to be fairly ableist?

Like not only is the concept of a person who uses a wheelchair who is depressed feel cliche and overdone, it's such a common ableist trope regarding people who use wheelchairs: that they're restricted, have worse quality of life, can't be happy, can't find love. The concept of a movie like this one, where an abled person "miraculously" falls in love with them is just so demeaning and degrading, like the implication that disabled ppl can't just find love like everyone else is not only false, but just such an overused ableist trope.

Not to mention the summary on MAL uses the phrase "bound to a wheelchair", which is generally considered poor, outdated phrasing that shouldn't be used.

I wonder if any of the original creators or staff or even advisors on the movie are disabled or use wheelchairs.

It's a shame this movie has to be so problematic bcs its theme and animation are so good.

Zimzky said:
We need mor erepresentation in media! Enough with all the fit, healthy white people!

*Gets representation*

This is not the representation I wanted! Waaaaah!

melpomene_smiled said:


Representation would be Iida Tensei getting more screen time, just chilling in his wheelchair. It's a characteristic but not the whole aspect of the character.
This is a story about disability written by someone who's never lived it. This is visibility, but not representation.

Also, people can be upset about things going wrong or not being what they expected! Christ knows enough people whine about adaptations not being to their standard. You're telling me that voicing your thoughts on a real topic is somehow not ok?

Just shut up if you have nothing productive to add.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:


Do we know if the writer isn't disabled? Regardless if it is or not, who cares? MOST people liked it and that is what matters. The minority, you, don't.

Lol there is a massive difference between complaining about shitty adaptations and people like you bitching about something is offensive.

So greedy. They should have made josee plus size and look like she got hit by a truck. Maybe that would satisfy you more?

Leoradiuju2004 said:
bruh, where did he say it's offensive? His point is valid, because it seems that the problem of the girl in a wheelchair seems only one element of the plot to make the girl sad, exchange that disease for another and nothing changes, the point here is that they make everyone see people with that disease as if their lives were sad and depressing

peaswar said:
The concept of a movie like this one, where an abled person "miraculously" falls in love with them is just so demeaning and degrading

Old_School_Akira said:
it looks better than the live action adaptation Japanese film made in 2003, who had the girl who couldn't walk in a baby stroller.


there is another live movie coming this year as well. made in Korea.

Leoradiuju2004 said:
bruh, where did he say it's offensive? His point is valid, because it seems that the problem of the girl in a wheelchair seems only one element of the plot to make the girl sad, exchange that disease for another and nothing changes, the point here is that they make everyone see people with that disease as if their lives were sad and depressing

Old_School_Akira said:
it looks better than the live action adaptation Japanese film made in 2003, who had the girl who couldn't walk in a baby stroller.


there is another live movie coming this year as well. made in Korea.

Sylverthas said:

I wonder - was the grandma in the live action movie a darker character? I think a large part of Josee's depression and her inability to get her life together was due to her grandma sheltering her and keeping her at home. In the anime it was played as somewhat overprotective caring, but I could see a version of that person that has mental problems, thus putting Josee into a stroller and inhibiting her social development further.

Even the anime depicts the grandma's lack of forethought or overprotectiveness in the way she treats Josee, in particular that the guy builds her some rather basic tools so she can get around her house better (which should've been installed long ago; she apparently has some money if she can hire him). It's actually kinda strange how she was portrayed as a character, because she was happy when Josee went out more often with the guy, but that it was likely (at least partially) her fault that Josee became like that is never brought up.

PrincessPorcupin said:
Spoken as someone who has a disability - both things can be true, not all disabled people are the same. And both views can be ableist. Yes, it's discriminatory to think of all disabled people as pitiful, suffering and struggling, but it's also discriminatory to ignore that many disabled people are depressed, do wish they were healthy, and that finding love and just living in general often is a lot more difficult when you're disabled. Basically, disabilities and the challenges they bring should be acknowledged and respected without exaggerated pity and awkwardness.