Makaze_no_Moujuu said: RusAnon said: I just love how everyone is focusing on "past" even though it was explicitly stated that "past" is NOT basis for judgment and whole game stuff wouldn't be needed if souls could be judged by "past". It was explained how system works in episode 2 — they put two souls without memories of past in extreme stress and see how they behave. THIS is what is used for judgment. And result for woman doesn't leave any space for pardon — she tried to manipulate male to make him lose, then when it didn't work as she intended, lashed out with verbal abuse, and then when it didn't work either, she just tried to kill him. Its very clear that her soul is wicked, and why it is in this state doesn't even matter. You don't send wicked souls to reincarnate. Besides, petty excuses like "but she had 5 children and was abused in the past" wouldn't work even in real world courts. First of all, you think domestic abuse, or having to raise kids on one's own is a petty excuse? That shit breaks people in real life; the feeling of being useless as a result of being beaten and abandoned by people you thought loved one, multiple times, or the stress of raising five kids without finishing school, thus not bringing in a steady income? That is real world stuff. Second: Actually, the past does matter, because, as shown in the other two games, these people are still the same people they were before they died. Their life experiences paint us a picture of of how far a person is willing to go. Let's also not forget that they still think that they are alive, and that losing means death; what they leave behind when they die can also have am effect on the person's emotional state, and then the reaction they have when faced with what they see as DEATH. I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living. I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live. Also, while I get the system, it's still wholly based on circumstance, and thus BS. What if a person, who died while trying to save someone he loved, gets paired with a person who lived a rather fulfilled life? In these extreme circumstance, the person who was desperate to save the life a loved one will do whatever it takes to survive to save the person who was in danger, because he/she still thinks they're alive, and thus has time to complete their task. Misako had much more to lose than Yosuke, thus the result we got, was the result we were always going to get. Decim knows this, yet still forced Misako's hand. It's fucked up. Both should've got reincarnated, but If I had to choose one I'd choose Misako. |
| In the next episode, there's going to be a kid being "judged". Damn... |
| 2deep4me |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
| Just like the Sibyl System in Psycho Pass, the whole judgement system is designed to be fundamentally flawed from the start so that the production team has some easy material to work with, it's one step into the pretentious realm. If they really need to select who is worth the second chance they should only send one people to trial each single time and judge them base on how much goods and bads they did when they were alive. Putting them agaist each other and manipulating their memories isn't fair to anyone. There is always gotta be someone who is more misable or having a more fulfilling live than you do. Or what about the memory about other aspects of your life that doesn't get recovered just because those are irrelevant to the story? The husband in the first episode could have been a passionate soical work volunteer, but we are only allowed to know him as a man who is suspicious about his wife cheating on him when he had a legitimate reason to behave that way. Therefore no one can make a proper judgement when you only get a tiny piece of information. It's not like an job interview which you are judged by how well you display your certain skills or abilities, it's life or death scenarios, taking this tv game show approch is already laugthable from the start. Our avatars...I demand more head resting on hand. |
raveninthemuddleJan 31, 2015 12:34 AM
| one more ep and im either dropping or watching. Good premise but i agree with the above but unlike psycho pass this series does not seek to correct the flaw in its judgement system. the only thing it seeks to do each time is force people to fight to find out which is reborn. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: What if a person, who died while trying to save someone he loved, gets paired with a person who lived a rather fulfilled life? In these extreme circumstance, the person who was desperate to save the life a loved one will do whatever it takes to survive to save the person who was in danger, because he/she still thinks they're alive, and thus has time to complete their task. Then too bad. As they said: Life's not fair. The arbiters can only go by what takes place in Quindecim. |
lordmage said: one more ep and im either dropping or watching. Good premise but i agree with the above but unlike psycho pass this series does not seek to correct the flaw in its judgement system. the only thing it seeks to do each time is force people to fight to find out which is reborn. we still don't know if the flaw in the system in Psycho-pass can/will be fixed!! and i didn't find anything wrong with accepting Quindecim's system as it is in Death parade's universe, the show is simply there to tell the viewer that "life isn't fair any way you spin it, so be smart and make the best out of it anyway", and it emphasizes on this by showing you that even the post-death judgment is circumstantial and subject to change depending on the whim of one individual. also by utilizing the WIDE RANGE of DIVERSE characters/back-stories it introduces each episode + the top notch emotional delivery at the end of each episode it makes sure to: 1) establish a link between a certain viewer and a certain relate-able character from a certain episode. 2) highlights the characters pros, cons and consequences of their actions. 3) and finally displaying a plausible outcome of how the viewer might react when put in similar conditions, driving him to ACTUALLY think about "what am i doing with my life??!!" 4) not to mention that it could help people to handle death better. i found this series to be really beneficial to people basing on the above points, so my advice : re-think about dropping it. |
ZA_WAYDJan 31, 2015 7:00 AM
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Makaze_no_Moujuu said: In the next episode, there's going to be a kid being "judged". Damn... Inb4 kid is secretly a psycho. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Simple, it can and it can't. You probably made this post in regard to last episode(4). The episode shows exactly what you questioned, the white air dude supports the force darkness that is why the chick was angry and broke the remote. No use asking a so subjective question since you have two characters with opposite points of view. |
| This isn't a problem with the show, and I think that the writers are very aware of this. Even Decim himself, as proven already, makes mistakes. You can see the disapproval on the Assistant's face when Decim pulls out the secret-darkness-pulling-machine. He wants to make sure that this time, he doesn't get tricked. Or at least that's how I see it. But of course, is this method a valid method? I'm sure that we'll get an elaboration on this in the next episodes. |
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| I couldn't have said it better: WAD1992 said: we still don't know if the flaw in the system in Psycho-pass can/will be fixed!!and i didn't find anything wrong with accepting Quindecim's system as it is in Death parade's universe, the show is simply there to tell the viewer that "life isn't fair any way you spin it, so be smart and make the best out of it anyway", and it emphasizes on this by showing you that even the post-death judgement is circumstantial and subject to change depending on the whim of one individual. Yes, judgement is circumstantial, but the circumstances are controlled. Since we know that the people competing can both go to the void or reincarnate, I think the whole idea of the game setting is just to provide the motivation for them to show all sides they have (not only the good ones). The more critical it becomes in their eyes, the more they show how many moral rules they can break. Personally, the show up to now is teaching me not to make groundless assumptions. As for the last ep, I think both had something to live for since the hikikomori wanted to finally acknowledge his stepmom. And if I remember correct when his stick broke, he wasn't thinking that the situation was a life-or-death one. |
Lena-K said: I couldn't have said it better: WAD1992 said: we still don't know if the flaw in the system in Psycho-pass can/will be fixed!!and i didn't find anything wrong with accepting Quindecim's system as it is in Death parade's universe, the show is simply there to tell the viewer that "life isn't fair any way you spin it, so be smart and make the best out of it anyway", and it emphasizes on this by showing you that even the post-death judgement is circumstantial and subject to change depending on the whim of one individual. Yes, judgement is circumstantial, but the circumstances are controlled. Since we know that the people competing can both go to the void or reincarnate, I think the whole idea of the game setting is just to provide the motivation for them to show all sides they have (not only the good ones). The more critical it becomes in their eyes, the more they show how many moral rules they can break. Personally, the show up to now is teaching me not to make groundless assumptions. As for the last ep, I think both had something to live for since the hikikomori wanted to finally acknowledge his stepmom. And if I remember correct when his stick broke, he wasn't thinking that the situation was a life-or-death one. So what part do you think makes for a controlled circumstance? - When they're amnesiacs who are basically helpless and have to do what they're told - When they don't know what is going on, but think they're on an episode of Punked - When they're having traumatic flashbacks that throw them into a state of confusion and question if they're even experiencing reality, reinforced by things like magical pain and bowling balls with hearts - When their mind is swiss cheese from flashbacks and they have a psychotic break - When they know they're already dead so think there are no consequences to their action and they're still suffering confusion and psychosis from their sudden random flashbacks and bizarre situation At no point are these people allowed to act under their own will, they are either blind rats in a maze or having severe mental trauma inflicted on them. It would be as good of a test to toss these people off a cliff and see which ones land on their head and which on their feet to determine where they go. It's silly. However the biggest problem with the show is how unbelievable the characters reactions are to their circumstances. Even giving a lot of leeway for the fact that these people have no memories they all deal with their situation in the dumbest way imaginable. You can't have a meaningful show when the characters are this two dimensional. |
Sokah said: Lena-K said: I couldn't have said it better: Yes, judgement is circumstantial, but the circumstances are controlled. Since we know that the people competing can both go to the void or reincarnate, I think the whole idea of the game setting is just to provide the motivation for them to show all sides they have (not only the good ones). The more critical it becomes in their eyes, the more they show how many moral rules they can break. Personally, the show up to now is teaching me not to make groundless assumptions. As for the last ep, I think both had something to live for since the hikikomori wanted to finally acknowledge his stepmom. And if I remember correct when his stick broke, he wasn't thinking that the situation was a life-or-death one. So what part do you think makes for a controlled circumstance? - When they're amnesiacs who are basically helpless and have to do what they're told - When they don't know what is going on, but think they're on an episode of Punked - When they're having traumatic flashbacks that throw them into a state of confusion and question if they're even experiencing reality, reinforced by things like magical pain and bowling balls with hearts - When their mind is swiss cheese from flashbacks and they have a psychotic break - When they know they're already dead so think there are no consequences to their action and they're still suffering confusion and psychosis from their sudden random flashbacks and bizarre situation At no point are these people allowed to act under their own will, they are either blind rats in a maze or having severe mental trauma inflicted on them. It would be as good of a test to toss these people off a cliff and see which ones land on their head and which on their feet to determine where they go. It's silly. However the biggest problem with the show is how unbelievable the characters reactions are to their circumstances. Even giving a lot of leeway for the fact that these people have no memories they all deal with their situation in the dumbest way imaginable. You can't have a meaningful show when the characters are this two dimensional. I get your point, but I don't think the setting is as random as you say. - As far as I understood they don't remember the events around the time of their deaths, the only exception was the girl from episode 3. - For the next several points you mention, it is the fact that both players are facing the same situation that puts them on an equal footing. They are not allowed to escape from the bar, they are both given the same explanation and equal treatment. In the end, it is up to them whether to use violence, play fair or even agree to reach a draw, so I wouldn't say they don't have a choice. - Psychosis is a mental condition, the characters are just driven to hysteria due to their helplessness to change anything that happened and the fact that they realize they won't have a chance to go back to life. The couple in episode 3 decided to use their final time in the purgatory to fulfill these desired moments. As for the plausibility of the reactions, I can't be sure. Their emotions are exaggerated, but this is deliberate (there is not much action, you have to hook the viewers). Otherwise I think people adapt to any situation, so their acceptance to play the game is quite believable to me. |
| When people are put under extreme pressure/traumatic situations (and arguably, the game of life and death is one...) they are more likely to act unreasonable/completely out of their mind, thus in my opinion it is extremely difficult to judge based on the game (I know, they don't only judge based on the game but it still factors in...) :/ That's one of the biggest flaw in the show for me. Very difficult to take it seriously... |
| one final point. the games are meaningless since ep 4? the game was rigid to cause the one girl to act way out of character. in fact i think the whole point of the game is to distract the person and see how the react after seeing a part of there past they are shown and that is the item being judged. take dead person remove the parts of there memories to be judged and leave vague memories besides the fact they are dead, then show them a memory see how it causes the game play and treatment of others to change. make judgement and usually the last memory is the fact they are dead. |
Angel said: When people are put under extreme pressure/traumatic situations (and arguably, the game of life and death is one...) they are more likely to act unreasonable/completely out of their mind, thus in my opinion it is extremely difficult to judge based on the game (I know, they don't only judge based on the game but it still factors in...) :/ That's one of the biggest flaw in the show for me. Very difficult to take it seriously... Rather, they are more likely to show their true sides. There are rather different things a person could do. Think about their life like a coward, trying to remember the good things; Go head on fair and square like the good person they are; Cheat to save their life, e.t.c In episode 4, for example The boy chose option 2 The woman chose option 3. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| The whole system is messed up and sick to begin with. They already know everything through telepathy, so why not judge based on that? Instead they are forcing people in playing these twisted games. That wouldn't be so bad, if there were clear rules, but they are seemingly making rules out of the blue or are even actively manipulating the game. I know, they want to see the dark side of people, too. But judging people under this extreme circumstances, is unjustified. That makes the arbiters appear as sadistic assholes. |
| You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi  |
| You're missing that that's the entire point of the anime. The arbiters use this system because they believe that by forcing out the darkness in people's souls they are getting their true nature. But the watcher is supposed to recognize that this is unfair. Pushing someone until they break doesn't show if a person is good or not, it just is breaking people for the sake of a convenient black/white answer. To draw an analogy, it's why torturing someone for information is generally considered a bad strategy: you're inflicting pain to get an answer, not the truth specifically. Inflict enough punishment on someone and an innocent man will confess to all sorts of things. This is a similar concept |
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| The whole premise is flawed. Murders are judged based on "human social laws", it doesn't make sense to have arbiters judge humans with human laws. (its socially unaccepted to kill another human, but insects and vermin are fine) If you would be as "neutral" (as in having no emotions and not knowing what life and death is like) as arbiters, shouldn't the murder of any life form weight in on judgment? |
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