Black Butler
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| Really good >.<! Poor Joker T^T His life was just miserable :( And all the circus members dying like that...Really sad stuff. The doctor is one F***d up bastard >~< The way he stabbed the girl was just cringe inducing. Ciel going insane and ordering to burn the whole place to ashes was well done. Loved Sebastian's hair flying in the fire. I need a gif for that :3 And Lol'd so much at Grell's reaction to Beast having sex with Sebastian |
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| Ciel's decision was so shocking...that even Sebastian got a sad face for a moment?Or is it just me that saw that? |
| It was really funny to see things like statues being casually tossed around but also really sad having the circus gang destroyed so casually. Ah, such is the usual contrast in tones the series handles so well at times, eh? While I couldn't agree with killing off those kids like that it was easy to see why Ciel did it considering what he was feeling at the time. I do like that as part of the series as well, that we see these times where we see darkness has gathered and come to stay. |
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| Why is everyone complaining about the children being killed.. They were already dead. They flashed to those stitches on all their heads at least five times. They most likely had their brains altered to make them incapable of emotion, movement, thought.. If they were just drugged there would be no need to alter their brains, so it's pretty clear they were already past being able to be saved. That aside this episode was bad ass.. I completely forgot have everyone died, so it was a little disturbing to relive it. A little sad that they had to kill everyone off, but I guess that's what makes it so good. |
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Manic_Erection said: Ciel's decision was so shocking...that even Sebastian got a sad face for a moment?Or is it just me that saw that? It looked more like a surprised face tbh and then there's was kind of a sigh from him before burning all the children. But when he was doing it we get another reminder of what Sebastian is as he smiles & probably enjoy's himself as his master's soul sink's further into darkness. |
| Well that episode was stupid, They let the girl die right in front of them, He didn't panic until the guy pulled out the knife so surely he could have stopped it while he was dragging her, I mean it was pretty clear what he was going to do. Also screw saving the kids just burn everything? I understand just destroying the room or even burning it down after the kids were out but burn everything including the kids? |
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| This was an AMAZING episode! I know from others comments that the Grell scenes were added, but I loved seeing Grell and his crazy ways! He is my second favorite character of the series! I believe that Ciel was wrought with trauma from his childhood, but I think that he did what was best. From the scars on the children's head, they were probably lobotomized and what kind of life would they have had if he saved them all. Seeing Sebastian in the middle of the burning flames was just awesome! The ended this episode well. Just one more episode left of this story arc, and I'll be sad to see it end. |
| So glad that I'm not a huge manga reader, because the manga readers WHINE WAY TOO MUCH and have to RUIN every adapted anime for the ANIME ONLY WATCHERS! |
| I'm quite glad Ciel isn't your typical goody two shoes hero - considering that the kids were even rescuable, boy they sure didn't seem that way. Characters don't have to be good people to be good characters, and especially since most good characters in anime aren't particularly... interesting... I feel it would've been better without Grell, but eh, still good |
| What's up with those kids, anyway? What happened to them that they look and act that way? |
| Finny looked like total psycho there lol |
| Everyone like "he should've saved the girl!", really? He was having a panic attack. A lot of people can't move or breath during those, let alone think about saving lives like fucking Superman. Besides, this is set in Victorian London. Did the troupe teach you nothing? If there's anything wrong with you there, you're fucked. These are all poor kids that now don't have minds, during a time when you were incredibly likely to be thrown straight into an abusive mental home for life if you showed any form of mental illness. Bedlam only started to stop its notoriously horrible "treatments" in the 1860s (due to the popularity of different mental institutions, not because this sort of treatment was considered entirely inhumane), and given the Jack the Ripper connection, this anime is only set 20 odd years later. They couldn't be saved. |
| Even though Grell wasn't in the original plot of this arc, I'm glad we were able to see him again. Cant help but feel for Joker though, he just wanted to protect everyone in the circus. But I cant help but feel a bit disappointed in Ciel, he just let the whole thing burn when it was still possible to save the kids, even if they wouldn't ever be the same again. Ciel could at least retun the children to their parents. In a way, it would at least show he still has some heart left in him. |
Rayn3698Sep 6, 2014 2:11 PM
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straggy said: Everyone like "he should've saved the girl!", really? He was having a panic attack. A lot of people can't move or breath during those, let alone think about saving lives like fucking Superman. Besides, this is set in Victorian London. Did the troupe teach you nothing? If there's anything wrong with you there, you're fucked. These are all poor kids that now don't have minds, during a time when you were incredibly likely to be thrown straight into an abusive mental home for life if you showed any form of mental illness. Bedlam only started to stop its notoriously horrible "treatments" in the 1860s (due to the popularity of different mental institutions, not because this sort of treatment was considered entirely inhumane), and given the Jack the Ripper connection, this anime is only set 20 odd years later. They couldn't be saved. Don't try and tell me they couldn't be saved. It is after all, not for you to say. Who are you to determine whether a person's life should or shouldn't be saved.? You don't know their circumstances much. You aren't affiliated with them, and you're no god. I agree that their futures may hold emptiness and possibly suffer and die in mental distress. You can't prove that. Neither can I. Burning all without even trying to save the children. Sure, sebastian burned the mansion but Ciel's the demon for issuing the command. Don't try to reason and justify murder. Even if its intent is not murder. I mean, just look at the troupe's murdering for an example of that. Not trying to say Ciel is the overall murderer, he is after all also a victim. But honestly open your eyes and realize he isn't perfect. You could argue that Ciel was trying to save them from the pain he has of living each day since he was also in this circumstance. Ciel is the way he is because of what happened in his past, and he fears those children would take his same dark path. Think about it, though. There has been moments where Ciel has smiled. Has appreciated life. Brief moments. Yet he takes away the future of those kids. Ciel is just a kid. He makes rash decisions, many mistakes, and this is no exception. Clymenus said: As for the panic attack part, I can understand, to some point, if that stopped him from saving that girl from being stabbed, but panic attack sure as hell didn't make him give an order to burn the rest of the kids. This. completely true. Justifying the burning of children with the excuse that he "had a panic attack"? Really, now. |
| I'm so happy that they've finally adapted the real story. The other animes were crap. Grell's part was awesome, watching Sebastion go at it with a girl that wasn't him. I'm looking forward to the last episode and the next series. It's going to be awesome. |
| Ahh, absolutely loved it! That was dark, mad, edgy and bloody - exactly that kind of shows I adore most. Ciel's decision wasn't 'good', that's for sure, but it only shows that he is such a twisted character. Not your typical shounen protagonist who saves everyone, and thanks to whom everyone lives happily ever after. Sometimes it makes me wonder why is he so popular and liked, when some of his actions and decisions makes him really despicable. |
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Clymenus said: You're focusing too much on the kids. Remember: the room Ciel is in is designed EXACTLY like the place where he was kept and tortured after being kidnapped, not to mention where both of his parents were killed. The doc stabbing the girl fully triggered a section of his memories from that time. Wanting to destroy something relating to such a traumatizing moment isn't uncommon. Although Ciel certainly went to drastic lengths to do so - burning the entire mansion with helpless children rather than just the room itself.As for the panic attack part, I can understand, to some point, if that stopped him from saving that girl from being stabbed, but panic attack sure as hell didn't make him give an order to burn the rest of the kids. At that point Ciel surly just wanted those bad memories to disappear, unable to focus on anything else. |
MonochromeSep 6, 2014 10:42 PM
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Ooh my...so much darker than first and second season! I can now term this series truly suitable for something that would involve a demon. In the other seasons, it was more like a very powerful butler, with mostly humorous plot lines. But now, this is actually scary, incredibly eerie, and something that's haunting me. In addition, there's the addition of some pretty graphic violence, and the mysteries aren't as lighthearted, such as having a "demon dog"; instead, they're about kidnappings, child abuse, massacre...definitely something that I didn't expect but yes, I can see why people would have been outraged that they left this out of the anime. After watching this, if I go back to watch the anime, I don't believe I would look at it in the same way. This arc has really changed my impression of the series as a whole. Ciel needs to realize that there are things to fear, even though he has a demon butler and massive amounts of wealth on his side. His butler is dangerous, wanting to make him suffer as much as possible, and he's not invincible. Sebastian can't protect him from the asthma and the terrible memories that plague him; nothing really can save him from that. And thus, we see him have a complete meltdown when the doctor murders that girl on the table that is an exact rendition of where he underwent the same experience, and there's not much he can do to control his reaction. This visceral reaction takes him and the audience by surprise because it targets him in a very vulnerable position, one in which he doesn't have the protection of a butler. We usually see Ciel portrayed as a stoic and cold-hearted person, unaffected by emotion and, well, seemingly disinterested in even the most terrifying things of the world. However, it's a facade. And what it takes to break that facade is something we see in this episode. So, everyone's deaths- children, Circus members, the man himself- should they be blamed on Kelvin or the doctor? I've been pondering this as I'm writing my usual review for this anime, and I'd have to say for now, the responsibility for these horrors will be relegated to the doctor, because it is implied that he convinced Kelvin to let him use the parts of children because he knew Kelvin would agree to it. Kelvin, in turn, needed to kidnap children in order to satisfy the doctor, and thus sent out the circus troupe to take care of that business for him. Even though it was Kelvin who enlisted the doctor's help, it is the innocent-appearing doctor who is the true manipulator here. Kelvin is creepy and too obsessed with perfection, but he is far less intelligent than the doctor. Perhaps considering the children would probably never be revived, it was better to let them die. Otherwise, they would have lived more like automatons, or not even so, because all we saw of them was them sitting around in cages, completely unresponsive. In a sense, they may have already been dead. Everyone says that Ciel's order to burn down the building was a decision made in a haze of sheer panic, but I believe he must have had some reasoning behind it. By burning down the building, he eliminates all visible traces of what had happened to him; though it certainly doesn't remove anything in his mind. |
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Monochrome said: You're focusing too much on the kids. Remember: the room Ciel is in is designed EXACTLY like the place where he was kept and tortured after being kidnapped, not to mention where both of his parents were killed. The doc stabbing the girl fully triggered a section of his memories from that time. Wanting to destroy something relating to such a traumatizing moment isn't uncommon. Although Ciel certainly went to drastic lengths to do so - burning the entire mansion with helpless children rather than just the room itself. At that point Ciel surly just wanted those bad memories to disappear, unable to focus on anything else. Which is basically you repeating the events that happened in the episode. Just because he wasn't able to focus on anything else doesn't make what he did a little more acceptable. |
| ...I don't know how to feel about this arc now. If this had aired in proper order in the original Black Butler series I would have been unable to continue watching. Ciel and his servants now just look plain evil and I have no idea what would redeem them in my eyes. I'm not saying the crazy geezer or the circus troupe were saints but the Phantomhive household just crossed the Moral Event Horizon for me. I exclude Sebastian in this, not because he isn't evil but exactly because he's supposed to be evil. When his evil side came out in the original series Ciel slapped him, but this time Ciel is instructing him. Another thing that bothers me is that I was under the impression that Ciel's soul was innocent no matter what he went through and that's why Sebastian wanted it so badly. Now I can't see that. I get that I won't know where this all goes until next episode, but please don't spoil me - I haven't read the manga. This episode and the previous one have made me very uncomfortable with this series and the characters I thought I loved. I don't know if the last episode will fix it, but I can only hope. |
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| Don't know why some people are getting confused or frustrated due to Ciel's decision on burning the mansion down. He's a psychopathic kid for god's sake, it's been like emphasized since the series started. He's not your generic, fun-loving, friend-cherishing, hero of the day protagonist. He's Ciel Phantomhive, the Queen's Guard Dog, the kid in the shadows doing the dirty work for the Queen and he signed a god damn contract with a motherf**ing devil. I don't expect any less of him than burning the kids up. |
| Lol at the whole discussion...Did you guys forget what Sebastian and Ciel are?Why do you expect them to be the good guys and perfect heroes?they are not...And that's what makes them great. |
Froliczxc said: Don't know why some people are getting confused or frustrated due to Ciel's decision on burning the mansion down. He's a psychopathic kid for god's sake, it's been like emphasized since the series started. He's not your generic, fun-loving, friend-cherishing, hero of the day protagonist. He's Ciel Phantomhive, the Queen's Guard Dog, the kid in the shadows doing the dirty work for the Queen and he signed a god damn contract with a motherf**ing devil. I don't expect any less of him than burning the kids up. Bless everything you said. Some people forget that he is the freaking Queen's Watchdog and that he's supposed to do the deed you know. |
Froliczxc said: Don't know why some people are getting confused or frustrated due to Ciel's decision on burning the mansion down. He's a psychopathic kid for god's sake, it's been like emphasized since the series started. He's not your generic, fun-loving, friend-cherishing, hero of the day protagonist. He's Ciel Phantomhive, the Queen's Guard Dog, the kid in the shadows doing the dirty work for the Queen and he signed a god damn contract with a motherf**ing devil. I don't expect any less of him than burning the kids up. ^This x10000 Best episode of the whole franchise. 5/5 (Gorgeous) This show is officially getting a 9/10 in my book. |
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Froliczxc said: Don't know why some people are getting confused or frustrated due to Ciel's decision on burning the mansion down. He's a psychopathic kid for god's sake, it's been like emphasized since the series started. He's not your generic, fun-loving, friend-cherishing, hero of the day protagonist. He's Ciel Phantomhive, the Queen's Guard Dog, the kid in the shadows doing the dirty work for the Queen and he signed a god damn contract with a motherf**ing devil. I don't expect any less of him than burning the kids up. Black Butler Ciel: "Why the hell did you kill X/Why did you let X die?/No, don't hurt them!" Book of Circus Ciel: "Just burn the house and all the kids in it to the ground. Idaf anymore." He's been traumatized and psychotic before but he's always remained level-headed and tried to steer clear of punishing innocents. Maybe if there had been a moment where he sadly pointed out that the kids couldn't be saved and that hurt him as much as his memories, I'd be on his side. I'm not. Now, if he's a tragic hero turned anti-hero that I'm supposed to hate, that's different and it works. I just never got that impression before. Also, what you said doesn't excuse or explain what the servants did. That part bothered me a lot too. :( |
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Squallina said: Froliczxc said: Don't know why some people are getting confused or frustrated due to Ciel's decision on burning the mansion down. He's a psychopathic kid for god's sake, it's been like emphasized since the series started. He's not your generic, fun-loving, friend-cherishing, hero of the day protagonist. He's Ciel Phantomhive, the Queen's Guard Dog, the kid in the shadows doing the dirty work for the Queen and he signed a god damn contract with a motherf**ing devil. I don't expect any less of him than burning the kids up. Black Butler Ciel: "Why the hell did you kill X/Why did you let X die?/No, don't hurt them!" Book of Circus Ciel: "Just burn the house and all the kids in it to the ground. Idaf anymore." He's been traumatized and psychotic before but he's always remained level-headed and tried to steer clear of punishing innocents. Maybe if there had been a moment where he sadly pointed out that the kids couldn't be saved and that hurt him as much as his memories, I'd be on his side. I'm not. Now, if he's a tragic hero turned anti-hero that I'm supposed to hate, that's different and it works. I just never got that impression before. Also, what you said doesn't excuse or explain what the servants did. That part bothered me a lot too. :( And I think you are reading a different manga than me in this case (or maybe you are just making reference to the filler-full and light hearted first anime adaptation), because from what I know, Ciel never said such things there (not even when he was little, there was not a single significant scene about "mercy" either). The same goes to the servants. "Maybe if there had been a moment where he sadly pointed out that the kids couldn't be saved and that hurt him as much as his memories, I'd be on his side. I'm not." |
DanpmssSep 8, 2014 7:24 PM
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| I like this arc way more than all the shit in season 1 and 2 but it's still not really at a "good" level for me yet. The plot is quite interesting but I feel like it focused too much on the action/style instead of foreshadowing and doing what mystery anime should do. It was a huge info dump (not as much as Mahouka) when they revealed the old guys intentions when there was barely any build up to it. |
mayukachan said: I like this arc way more than all the shit in season 1 and 2 but it's still not really at a "good" level for me yet. The plot is quite interesting but I feel like it focused too much on the action/style instead of foreshadowing and doing what mystery anime should do. It was a huge info dump (not as much as Mahouka) when they revealed the old guys intentions when there was barely any build up to it. Lol, it isn't even mystery (at least not this arc... the next one is), it was just a "hunting" (they already knew the "Who dunnit" from the beggining). Also, there was like 3 episodes dedicated just for the foreshadowed build-up and an entire episode dedicated that old pervert, so I can't really see your point there. Info dumps don't have to be built-up, btw (normally is the exact opposite that happens, they came from nowhere getting you by surprise). |
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EarlCiel said: straggy said: Everyone like "he should've saved the girl!", really? He was having a panic attack. A lot of people can't move or breath during those, let alone think about saving lives like fucking Superman. Besides, this is set in Victorian London. Did the troupe teach you nothing? If there's anything wrong with you there, you're fucked. These are all poor kids that now don't have minds, during a time when you were incredibly likely to be thrown straight into an abusive mental home for life if you showed any form of mental illness. Bedlam only started to stop its notoriously horrible "treatments" in the 1860s (due to the popularity of different mental institutions, not because this sort of treatment was considered entirely inhumane), and given the Jack the Ripper connection, this anime is only set 20 odd years later. They couldn't be saved. Don't try and tell me they couldn't be saved. It is after all, not for you to say. Who are you to determine whether a person's life should or shouldn't be saved.? You don't know their circumstances much. You aren't affiliated with them, and you're no god. I agree that their futures may hold emptiness and possibly suffer and die in mental distress. You can't prove that. Neither can I. Burning all without even trying to save the children. Sure, sebastian burned the mansion but Ciel's the demon for issuing the command. Don't try to reason and justify murder. Even if its intent is not murder. I mean, just look at the troupe's murdering for an example of that. Not trying to say Ciel is the overall murderer, he is after all also a victim. But honestly open your eyes and realize he isn't perfect. You could argue that Ciel was trying to save them from the pain he has of living each day since he was also in this circumstance. Ciel is the way he is because of what happened in his past, and he fears those children would take his same dark path. Think about it, though. There has been moments where Ciel has smiled. Has appreciated life. Brief moments. Yet he takes away the future of those kids. Ciel is just a kid. He makes rash decisions, many mistakes, and this is no exception. Clymenus said: As for the panic attack part, I can understand, to some point, if that stopped him from saving that girl from being stabbed, but panic attack sure as hell didn't make him give an order to burn the rest of the kids. This. completely true. Justifying the burning of children with the excuse that he "had a panic attack"? Really, now. I didn't say Ciel was perfect, lmao. I said the kids couldn't be saved, which is true. I literally gave you the context as to why but you still want to deny the brutality of Victorian London, ok. These kids weren't even truly living before they lost their minds, and now there's no hope for them. This isn't a fucking fairytale. The anime even glosses over and glorifies what a workhouse actually is, too - even if the kids had been taken in, it'd be for heavy labour on little food and no pay. This isn't Annie. Some kind billionaire wasn't going to take in all the poor little mindless kids. They'd have starved to death on the street, if they could even make it that far. Also, I only said the panic attack was about not saving the girl. So why are you even bringing it up? Stop denying that Victorian London wasn't shit just so you can get all high and mighty morals about Ciel's choices. Modern ideals don't apply to that time in any way. |
Clymenus said: straggy said: I didn't say Ciel was perfect, lmao. I said the kids couldn't be saved, which is true. I literally gave you the context as to why but you still want to deny the brutality of Victorian London, ok. These kids weren't even truly living before they lost their minds, and now there's no hope for them. This isn't a fucking fairytale. The anime even glosses over and glorifies what a workhouse actually is, too - even if the kids had been taken in, it'd be for heavy labour on little food and no pay. This isn't Annie. Some kind billionaire wasn't going to take in all the poor little mindless kids. They'd have starved to death on the street, if they could even make it that far. Also, I only said the panic attack was about not saving the girl. So why are you even bringing it up? Stop denying that Victorian London wasn't shit just so you can get all high and mighty morals about Ciel's choices. Modern ideals don't apply to that time in any way. You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but, even if London in that era was a lousy place, you can't beat an argument that he had no right to make that choice for them. And that is if we blindly believe his argument that they couldn't be saved (I doubt Ciel has great medical knowledge). He pulled through with Sebastians help, maybe those kids would get better with somebody else's help. Too bad he burned them all and never gave them a chance to try, huh. The one who's acting high and mighty is you, trying to make arguments for an edgy kid who thinks he's the one to decide who lives and who dies. Except Ciel does get to decide who lives and who dies. The Queen gave him that right because she trusts his judgement. Dealing with murderers and other criminals isn't simple. Other people are involved and implicated, and the Queen herself knows Ciel gets the job done and removes all threats involved. He was told to stop the child abductions using these rights to his disposal and he did. He had to think in a matter of minutes what to do, and he made a decision for the sake of his Queen and his mission. Those children couldn't be saved, which was part of Ciel's trusted judgement. He'd been in that exact situation and he knew they'd been broken too far for children to recover. He knew he himself had only recovered because he'd been saved before he was broken, by a demon that could properly utilise Ciel's wealth and position to get him all the help he needed. Even with that, Ciel still suffers today, we saw that clearly in this episode. Thus, he knew they'd only suffer more if they were let into the brutal world of Victorian London. Maybe burning them alive wasn't the nicest way to do it, yeah, but he was removing people that were already dead. Dead to society and dead to themselves. They had no available demons, no masses of wealth, no good societal rankings. They weren't going to survive. They could've been a threat too, since they came from a similar background as the circus troupe that committed these crimes in the first place. He thought of all those risks in minutes and made a decision, even when he was suffering and hurting. This sort of quick thinking and threat elimination is why the Queen trusts him to do the hardest tasks - she knows Ciel will get the job done no matter the cost, and no matter if it takes a lack of morals to do so, which this job did. |
Clymenus said: straggy said: Except Ciel does get to decide who lives and who dies. The Queen gave him that right because she trusts his judgement. Dealing with murderers and other criminals isn't simple. Other people are involved and implicated, and the Queen herself knows Ciel gets the job done and removes all threats involved. He was told to stop the child abductions using these rights to his disposal and he did. He had to think in a matter of minutes what to do, and he made a decision for the sake of his Queen and his mission. I am pretty sure his right to kill applies to criminals and those who go against the queen, not random people. He was ordered to stop the kidnappers but save the children. And you can see how much she trusts him when we see she sent her people to watch over Ciel. straggy said: Those children couldn't be saved, which was part of Ciel's trusted judgement. He'd been in that exact situation and he knew they'd been broken too far for children to recover. He knew he himself had only recovered because he'd been saved before he was broken, by a demon that could properly utilise Ciel's wealth and position to get him all the help he needed. Even with that, Ciel still suffers today, we saw that clearly in this episode. Thus, he knew they'd only suffer more if they were let into the brutal world of Victorian London. Maybe burning them alive wasn't the nicest way to do it, yeah, but he was removing people that were already dead. Dead to society and dead to themselves. They had no available demons, no masses of wealth, no good societal rankings. They weren't going to survive. They could've been a threat too, since they came from a similar background as the circus troupe that committed these crimes in the first place. He thought of all those risks in minutes and made a decision, even when he was suffering and hurting. This sort of quick thinking and threat elimination is why the Queen trusts him to do the hardest tasks - she knows Ciel will get the job done no matter the cost, and no matter if it takes a lack of morals to do so, which this job did. You are saying only way for people to recover from something is with a help of demons and power. I won't even begin to say why that's wrong on so many levels, but, how about an idea: Ciel actually does something nice and uses his money to help those children? It's not as easy as burning them, but he could've given it a shot. Also, the fact that he lived through the same thing as them gives him no authority to do what he did. If someone had cancer and suffered greatly and survived by miracle, does that give him the right to kill all people with cancer? See how silly that is, and if everybody did stuff like that we'd need more police. Those children couldn't be saved, which was part of Ciel's trusted judgement You are trusting a kid with serious problems with things only trained people could decide on. Don't make a "Victorian Era is a tough place" strawman argumnet, it was a difficult time, but people were still people, and there are places on this planet today that are tougher than England at that time. If somebody was to burn mentally challenged kids in some third world country would you say he was right? That's not even the same thing. You're ignoring the entire situation, which was the issue in the first place. Ciel just had a panic attack, and you don't recover from that in minutes. He was surrounded by memories of his past that literally traumatised him, and he saw other kids in that situation. From his own experiences, he knew he'd have wanted to die, so he killed them. He was busy. He needed to destroy the work of his enemy, and he needed to pursue the rest of the circus troupe. He didn't have the time to care for these children, but he did have the time and ability to try to save them from suffering by killing them in the process of burning down the building (which he would've done anyway). He still had drool and puke around his mouth and you could still hear the heavy breathing and panic in his voice, yet you think this was a calm and calculated decision where Ciel was going through options of turning his home into an orphanage? No, he judged the situation quickly to the best of his ability in his current state and decided to remove factors that could create more abductions, rather than bullshitting with kids that didn't stand a chance. This is what the Queen trusts him to do - put eliminating the criminals first. The Queen, not me. I'm not trusting him to do shit - it's not my mission he's been given. Also the Victorian era being brutal isn't a strawman if it's relevant, which it very much is. The main point of it is that England was easily one of, if not the, most prosperous nation during that period. It had a massive empire, rich imports and exports, and a thriving industry in a number of different products. Third world countries are exactly that - they're the least well off parts of today's society. There's something better on offer. Back then, England was about the best it got. There wasn't any other option, like there is today. And I never said the only way you can recover is with demons and power. Ciel was too far to recover. If he'd escaped before that point, he probably could've done it on his own. But he was about to break, and would've done, without Sebastian. Therefore, yes, he did need Sebastian and his power, because he was too far gone for other methods. Stop ignoring that. Those children were already broken. If Ciel needed a demon when he was about to break on top of his privileges in society, there's nothing to help those kids. |
Clymenus said: straggy said: Also the Victorian era being brutal isn't a strawman if it's relevant, which it very much is. The main point of it is that England was easily one of, if not the, most prosperous nation during that period. It had a massive empire, rich imports and exports, and a thriving industry in a number of different products. Third world countries are exactly that - they're the least well off parts of today's society. There's something better on offer. Back then, England was about the best it got. There wasn't any other option, like there is today. This part makes no sense. If England was so well off then there could be options and resources to help those children. I also don't think you understand the situation in third world countries. If you don't understand how Victorian England is hazardous to both physically and mentally disabled despite being well off (and that the rich frequently didn't help the poor/homeless beyond giving them petty change when they pass, much like they don't today in developed countries) then you both weren't paying attention to the anime, weren't paying attention to anything I said and couldn't be bothered to google it for 5 minutes so that you actually have some idea of what you're talking about. I'm not wasting any more time on you if you're not even going to pay attention. |
| T____T, man...even if it may be "mercy" to kill all those kids, its messed up. But yeah that's what makes this show so brilliant, dark and unforgiving, ti's not about Justice. |
| so, for everyone talking about ciel burning the kids alive, i don't think they would have been much better off if he had spared them. from their unresponsiveness to everything happening and the scars on their temples, they were probably lobotomized. if they turned out that way after such a surgery, then they would have been walking vegetables for the rest of their lives. |
| This show is just like I wanted it to be (I didn't read the manga). But now I feel the difference between supposing the plot to be scary and not actually seeing it, and having seen all the blood, bones, tragedy even though this was how I thought things would be. This is a tremendous difference. Perfect. met my expectations |
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