The Empty Box and Zeroth Maria (light novel)
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Sep 9, 2015 9:39 AM
#151
EusthEnoptEron said: Yanagi's wish has nothing to do with Kazuki's empty box. In fact, we don't even know what she wished for. Or that she even had one to begin with. (At least I couldn't find any mention of Nana Yanagi having a wish in HakoMari.) |
axeshizzleSep 9, 2015 11:39 AM
Sep 9, 2015 11:41 AM
#152
IIRC, Yanagi always depend on Kazuki, tho she didnt realize it she trusts him more than her bf. when Yanagi made her wish, her subconscious believed that if something happened Kazuki will come and save her, that's what made Maria recognized him as 'savior'. Yanagi's subconscious is the cause of Kazuki's box. ^always thought like that but well, if the translator said it's not then it's not ¯_(ツ)_/¯ |
Sep 12, 2015 2:01 AM
#153
That was an incredible ending to an awesome series XD I dont cry over stuff like this but I almost shed a tear or two... ALMOST and yuuri got a fan in me haha |
Sep 13, 2015 11:10 PM
#154
axeshizzle said: EusthEnoptEron said: Yanagi's wish has nothing to do with Kazuki's empty box. In fact, we don't even know what she wished for. Or that she even had one to begin with. (At least I couldn't find any mention of Nana Yanagi having a wish in HakoMari.) -Gensan- said: IIRC, Yanagi always depend on Kazuki, tho she didnt realize it she trusts him more than her bf. when Yanagi made her wish, her subconscious believed that if something happened Kazuki will come and save her, that's what made Maria recognized him as 'savior'. Yanagi's subconscious is the cause of Kazuki's box. ^always thought like that but well, if the translator said it's not then it's not ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Some hypothesis from the way I interpreted it: Maria knew about Nana Yanagi's story involving her boyfriend Touji Kijima and Kazuki. Thus there could be the following scenario: Maria could have been an observer when Yanagi's affair with her boyfriend and Kazuki happened. That implies Yanagi had something to do with a box, or else Maria wouldn't have been observing her ("observing" doesn't mean Maria actively took part in Yanagi's everyday life but was somehow watching Yanagi). Because Maria was watching Yanagi, she knew about how Kazuki kept helping Yanagi. Still assuming Yanagi had a box at that time - I would guess Yanagi's wish was the reason she got together with her boyfriend - her wish was imperfect, so there were troubles with their relationship, and Kazuki was the one hanging around to help Yanagi. Seeing that, Maria was impressed by how Yanagi had someone who kept trying to save her, so she subconsciously decided that if there were a person who would save Maria herself too, that would be someone like Kazuki. Maria has always wanted a "savior" as mentioned in the novel, so Maria just subconsciously gave Kazuki the Empty Box as she filled the "savior" role in her mind with Kazuki (just like how she created 'O'). It was never technically clear how and why Maria got in touch with the "being" that granted wishes in the first place, but while 'O' was born from Maria's wish to grant everyone's wishes with the ability to give out boxes, the "savior" was born from Maria's wish to save herself with the ability to crush boxes. What I'm trying to say is, it was Maria herself who did all that, Yanagi had nothing to do with Kazuki's ability. Afterwards, same pattern as Daiya's case: Yanagi might have used a box, the box broke for some reason (doesn't always need Kazuki to crush a box). Then Maria approached Yanagi in the aftermath, seeing that she couldn't be saved anymore, Maria used Flawed Bliss on her. Maria then lost all memories associated with Yanagi and thus forgot about Kazuki too. Even if Yanagi had no box, the main idea here is that Maria was somehow in a position where she learned about Yanagi's affair and Kazuki, got impressed, wanted someone like Kazuki for herself too, and subconsciously assigned Kazuki into the role of her "savior" with the box-crushing ability which was already pre-determined from the beginning ("savior" created alongside 'O'). I'm guessing the translator had the same idea and I pretty much elaborated that idea. |
KainuSep 13, 2015 11:14 PM
Sep 16, 2015 8:17 PM
#155
Kainu said: axeshizzle said: EusthEnoptEron said: Yanagi's wish has nothing to do with Kazuki's empty box. In fact, we don't even know what she wished for. Or that she even had one to begin with. (At least I couldn't find any mention of Nana Yanagi having a wish in HakoMari.) -Gensan- said: IIRC, Yanagi always depend on Kazuki, tho she didnt realize it she trusts him more than her bf. when Yanagi made her wish, her subconscious believed that if something happened Kazuki will come and save her, that's what made Maria recognized him as 'savior'. Yanagi's subconscious is the cause of Kazuki's box. ^always thought like that but well, if the translator said it's not then it's not ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Some hypothesis from the way I interpreted it: Maria knew about Nana Yanagi's story involving her boyfriend Touji Kijima and Kazuki. Thus there could be the following scenario: Maria could have been an observer when Yanagi's affair with her boyfriend and Kazuki happened. That implies Yanagi had something to do with a box, or else Maria wouldn't have been observing her ("observing" doesn't mean Maria actively took part in Yanagi's everyday life but was somehow watching Yanagi). Because Maria was watching Yanagi, she knew about how Kazuki kept helping Yanagi. Still assuming Yanagi had a box at that time - I would guess Yanagi's wish was the reason she got together with her boyfriend - her wish was imperfect, so there were troubles with their relationship, and Kazuki was the one hanging around to help Yanagi. Seeing that, Maria was impressed by how Yanagi had someone who kept trying to save her, so she subconsciously decided that if there were a person who would save Maria herself too, that would be someone like Kazuki. Maria has always wanted a "savior" as mentioned in the novel, so Maria just subconsciously gave Kazuki the Empty Box as she filled the "savior" role in her mind with Kazuki (just like how she created 'O'). It was never technically clear how and why Maria got in touch with the "being" that granted wishes in the first place, but while 'O' was born from Maria's wish to grant everyone's wishes with the ability to give out boxes, the "savior" was born from Maria's wish to save herself with the ability to crush boxes. What I'm trying to say is, it was Maria herself who did all that, Yanagi had nothing to do with Kazuki's ability. Afterwards, same pattern as Daiya's case: Yanagi might have used a box, the box broke for some reason (doesn't always need Kazuki to crush a box). Then Maria approached Yanagi in the aftermath, seeing that she couldn't be saved anymore, Maria used Flawed Bliss on her. Maria then lost all memories associated with Yanagi and thus forgot about Kazuki too. Even if Yanagi had no box, the main idea here is that Maria was somehow in a position where she learned about Yanagi's affair and Kazuki, got impressed, wanted someone like Kazuki for herself too, and subconsciously assigned Kazuki into the role of her "savior" with the box-crushing ability which was already pre-determined from the beginning ("savior" created alongside 'O'). I'm guessing the translator had the same idea and I pretty much elaborated that idea. never thought of Nana having a box before Maria did things but that would make sense because we only saw Maria using her flawed bliss only after someone messed up his/her wish eg: Daiya and manequin house guy. I'm also thinking even if Nana never happened, Maria will still give Kazuki the knight's spot if she somehow knew how he saved other people. Becuase he did save many people aside from Nana. |
Sep 18, 2015 8:48 AM
#156
Holy shit that was so freaking good. I don't know what to do with my life now that it has ended lol. I really doubted the author could make an ending that could satisfy me and I was really afraid of getting disappointed at the end with my favorite book and novel of all times, but the bastard actually did it, fucking genius. I'll probably read his another novel, Kamisu Reina. I couldn't stop myself from crying at most epilogue scenes, especially the scene when Kazuki cries for making Maria sad and she hugs him, the one where Daiya show he has forgiven Kazuki, the moment Kazuki becomes able to speak again... But most of all when I saw "Maria Hoshino" in the last page, daamn, that broke the tears flow control in my eyes. Now I can't help but think about their honeymoon ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) I'm even writting a fanfic even though I rarely do that. If I think it's good enough I'll post it on my MAL blog and maybe here if you guys want it. |
Sep 18, 2015 6:31 PM
#157
Sep 20, 2015 11:45 AM
#158
I haven't seen anyone mention the dog yet. (beginning of chapter 3) After Wish Crushing-Cinema, Kazu receives an e-mail from Daiya that contains nothing but an address. (this is before Daiya got stabbed) Kazu goes to this address and sees Otanashi on the name plate. He asks the inhabitant (a middle aged woman) of the house about Otanashi, but is cut short. In order to get her attention he climbed over the fence and kills her dog. I get that Kazu's resolve to find Maria was rock solid, but if someone could just tell me that he didn't actually kill that dog IRL, that would be just swell. (Cuz it sure as hell seems that he actually did. It was definitely not an hallucination from one of the loops.) |
axeshizzleSep 20, 2015 11:50 AM
Sep 20, 2015 11:50 AM
#159
axeshizzle said: Yeah he killed the dog, he was already nutsI haven't seen anyone mention the dog yet. (beginning of chapter 3) After Wish Crushing-Cinema, Kazu receives an e-mail from Daiya that contains nothing but an address. (this is before Daiya got stabbed) Kazu goes to this address and sees Otanashi on the name plate. Kazu asks the inhabitant (a middle aged woman) of the house about Otanashi, but is cut short. In order to get her attention he climbed over the fence and kills her dog. I get that Kazu's resolve to find Maria was rock solid, but if someone could just tell me that he didn't actually kill that dog IRL, that would be just swell. (Cuz it sure as hell seems that he actually did. It was definitely not an hallucination from one of the loops.) |
Oct 4, 2015 10:08 AM
#160
axeshizzle said: He is insane, he killed the dog and didn't cared the slightest, which also frightened the resident of the manor.I haven't seen anyone mention the dog yet. |
Oct 10, 2015 1:13 PM
#161
RedChapel said: I have one question regarding the epilogue:so did he completely get back to his former self( before going insane and starting to forget everything)i.e did he remember everything in the end? It's a bit vague to me wether he ended up loosing some of his memories or not after he recovered from a "zombie"-state I think the ending was intentionally left open, meaning there isn't an official concrete answer to your question. Up to the reader's interpretation. The way I see it though, it wouldn't make sense if Kazuki simply forgot everything. He just learned to cope with his memories one way or another. Maria said that she would only marry Kazuki when he truly wishes for it aka when Kazuki returns to "normal". The fact that they got married in the end means Kazuki is "normal" now. Imo his "normal" state could be either: 1) A more stable "normal" life: After interacting more with his friends, he realized that they all forgave him, so he finally came to accept his sins and strive to rebuild his everyday life - "the most damaged everyday life" - with Maria as a way to repent. I know this hypothesis might not sound that much logical but let's just say he somehow accepted that he has already been forgiven and moved on with his life; or.... 2) An unstable "normal" life: Kazuki could never forgive himself, so while he recovered from the zombie state (by recalling his former life) and completely regained consciousness and daily functions, he simply left his sinful memories out of his mind... and once in a long while when those memories resurface, he would break into a fit of guilt and temporarily returns to the zombie state until Maria calls him back. Aside from those times, he could be just like his former self, and that's why Maria married him anyway even though there're still times when he loses himself. I'm more in favor of #1, though I'd say both could be equally likely... I think whether or not he regains all his memories is not of importance. The important thing is that Kazuki and Maria had a happy ending. Without that happy ending, if the story ended with Maria and Kazuki being in a desperate state........ my heart would break and part of my soul would forever be lost TT__TT |
Oct 17, 2015 9:16 PM
#162
Oct 18, 2015 7:27 AM
#163
Oct 18, 2015 3:09 PM
#164
Kiym said: does anyone know what kazu said when he said "Im okay" and the "_____" last part I believe Kazu said Maria |
Oct 18, 2015 8:40 PM
#165
Oct 19, 2015 7:27 AM
#166
What a ride... Amazing novel & an absolute pleasure to read. Every volume was incredible: Vol 1's use of pretty much 1 setting Vol 2's character development Vol 3 & 4's creativity and intelligence Vol 5 & 6's conflict between characters and finally Vol 7's view of Kazuki's despair and satisfying ending. EEE, thanks so much for the translations. I am so glad that I didn't miss out on this masterpiece! Finished it all in 5 days so I'm sad now :( Also that title spoiler: Maria Hoshino at the very end was the icing on the cake. Brilliant. |
Light-Oct 21, 2015 7:03 AM
Oct 21, 2015 2:15 AM
#167
Damn it, what an ending, this LN managed to do what countless anime and manga have failed to do. I sure didnt expect that i would get from a LN the emotional impact i got from my favorite anime. I just wish that we got a few pages more of after Kazuki started speaking again. This part was like fuck, why did it have to end as soon as that happened.... There are some thing i didnt quite understand though. First of all, how much time in the real world had passed since Kazuki got trapped in the Flawed Bliss? More importantly though, what was happening to the actual bodies of Kazuki and Maria during that time? Kazuki was like in a coma or something as soon as he conforted "O" in Maria's room? That cant be quite correct though, since there were also other people living in the eternal worlds Maria created for them. Were their lives in autopilot or something? Or was just a clone of their consciousness inside of these worlds? That aside, did Kazuki end up recovering all of his memories? By the way, can anyone recommend me something similar to this awesomeness? Something unique that will take me to a similar emotional roller coaster, i just dont know how to feel after finishing it. |
Oct 23, 2015 10:39 AM
#168
It was 2010 that I wanted to start reading Light Novels.I found about this LN and started reading the first Vol.I could not stand reading a lot and dropped it the next day 5 years later I found out that the LN ended and it was like Number 2 on the top Manga list! I was surprised so I marathon the whole series this week and by god was it a journey! ITS A MASTERPIECE ! |
Oct 26, 2015 9:47 PM
#169
Didn't realize this series ended, probably why I got a hate comment for my review of this out of nowhere. Time to finish this trainwreck of a story. |
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Oct 31, 2015 3:02 PM
#170
Epilogue: - I open my mouth to say the word I hold dearest. “ ” - What say kazuki? |
Oct 31, 2015 9:49 PM
#171
Nov 3, 2015 5:58 AM
#172
Coldsp33d said: Chapter 3 was so painful to read. However this was the best volume in the series by far, I'd like to think. Agreed. It was painful to read but it was necessary for chapter 4 I guess. Anyway, I think this is the best volume out of all of them. Sure, it didn't quite have as much contemplation and strategizing as the previous volume. But it's the only one with concrete information of who Aya Otonashi is; not just vague descriptions and references about her. I think it's also the only other volume besides the first where you can easily say that it can end there - That Epilogue wrapped stuff up pretty well. Also, I actually thought that Kazuki would have to go through Mogi's, Rino's, Kamiuchi's, and Daiya's boxes in order after O basically devoured him. I mean, the repeating world was very similar to the Repeating Rejecting Classroom. Realized that it wasn't the case around the point when he started isolating himself throught that. |
Nov 7, 2015 10:54 PM
#173
If I had to describe it in one word, well..it'd be "AWESOME!!" ...It was just so great!! At the beginning of the volume, I wasn't actually hoping for a happy ending -- though I wished with all my heart it would be otherwise... Hakomari has never failed to intrigue me...The bond between Maria and Kazuki has ever been strong; wonderfully and enviably so...So after all, Maria has regained the 'zeroth Maria' and become 'whole'..this, too, was really exciting....Kazuki's perseverance was just admirable: in a seemingly impossible situation, his resolve did not break...his solitary struggle was tear-jerking; such love he has for Maria, such love Maria has for him! "I desperately need her, and she desperately needs me." The epilogue was absolutely the best; probably my opinion of the 'ending' would've changed if it weren't for the essential epilogue -- it highlighted the state of the other characters; that's was nice work, Eiji-san.... Yes, I hadn't really expected a happy ending for Kokone, let alone Daiya...moreover, even Kijima and Asama, to my surprise, had a happy ending ...a whole lot of unexcepted happy endings indeed..And being a fan of happy endings, I couldn't be any happier with the way it ended. ....Kazuki X Maria wedding was just oh-so-beautiful!! Ahhh, their bonds, their love...Congratulations, Mr. Hoshino and Mrs. Hoshino!! How I wish you'd send me a pic of ur wedding !!! |
tetsuya001Nov 23, 2015 7:35 AM
Nov 12, 2015 4:01 AM
#174
This volume has definitely become my favorite of the series. It was incredible from start to finish. I loved how Kazuki started as one of the most typical and generic protagonists, and then slowly progressed throughout 7 volumes into an absolutely insane and interesting protagonist. And we got to experience his transformation through his mind the whole way. When he killed the poor dog and ripped out its insides, it made me go, "Holy shittt." After, we got to see him become almost completely broken by the end of chapter 3. Reading through all his struggles during chapters 1 and 3 was heartbreaking. Finally, we were able to follow along his mind as he recovered in his heartwarming epilogue :) Aya is so unique and learning about her character in this volume was really entertaining. And the twist with what Maria thought her words meant was great. If I understood it correctly, when Aya told Maria that Maria had to become her, she just meant that she wanted Maria to become like her and be filled with passion for something? But Maria mistook this, and thought that she meant that she had to actually become Aya herself? Ahh, I'm soo glad there was an epilogue. There are so many stories out there that need one, but don't have one. And this epilogue is probably the most satisfying. I loved that we were able get short stories told from other characters' perspectives that we didn't see perspectives of before. This was my first light novel, and it's opened me up to the medium of Japanese novels/light novels (already have my next one planned out). I'm gonna miss it, but this has been such an amazing and enjoyable read 😊 |
Nov 24, 2015 9:44 PM
#175
What a read.. This has become my favourite series of all time by far. The emotional roller coaster this last volume was is amazing. Watching Kazu struggle and struggle to get to Maria, made me kinda depressed. He slowly goes insane losing, all his will many times. When Maria realizes her true feelings towards him it warmed me up inside.. But reading the scene when she was repeating his name over and over without a response hurt, I just wanted him to shout out her name and embrace her. Getting to see Maria's background (finnaly) was pretty interesting, I kinda wanted to know a bit more about Aya. The epilogue was quite well done, but again very very depressing. Each of the characters took a toll mentally and physically, but seeing most of them standing back on their own feet was amazing. Once Kazu finnaly returned to normal and married Maria I had a huge grin on my face. I couldn't have asked for a better ending. I'm not sure how I would've felt if it had a bad ending.. After all Kazu went through to be with Maria I'm glad they can finnaly be together. An incredible series, deffiantly going to re-read in the future :D |
Dec 9, 2015 6:45 AM
#176
End of traveling journey. Lets rest and waiting bomb score. Ayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!! |
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Dec 21, 2015 7:16 PM
#177
Note: spoilers ahead, and also I think I might, if I'm correct in my thought process, ruin the ending somewhat for those who really liked it. I have a problem: if the entire romantic premise between Kazuki and Maria relied on an emotional or even existential symmetry between the two (i.e. both are the other's sole reason for being etc.), how are we supposed to understand the fact that Kazuki was practically dragged into the whole shebang in the first place by Maria's flawed wish? To put it another way, just like how there is a zeroth Maria that exists prior to all boxes isn't there also a zeroth Kazuki who, if not for Maria's wish, would have possessed a different set of priorities and sense of being? And if thats the case, the entire ending -"happy" as it is (which is also ironic, seeing that Maria's relinquishment of her former wish actually accomplishes it) - seems to be predicated on the fact that Kazuki simply doesn't seem to care in any way (even after he finds out the truth from O in volume 5) about being manipulated by Maria's wishes since day one. So in fact, the only thing we know about Kazuki before Maria intervened is that he's super gentle to Yannagi -and we only know that because it was deemed significant by Maria and it ended up being the single factor that got Kazuki into the whole mess. This is all to say, this series is completely oriented towards Maria while Kazuki, interestingly, is an empty vessel who exists solely for Maria to achieve her real wish (i.e. to find a meaning to life). And thus, we arrive at the end of the tale with the strange discovery that Kazuki is in fact the flawless "box" of the story. But what about the zeroth Kazuki? How would he feel about everything? Of course, all this is not to say that the novel was not meticulously written and have some truly superb plot/character development. I am also aware that the passive/oblivious/normal-to-the-point-of-actually-being-extraordinary kind of male protagonist is quite prevalent for the sake of reader-identification. I guess it's just that all along the final volume I had hope that the author would address what I see as a not insignificant gap in the protagonist's psyche instead of just asking us to take for granted Kazuki's selfless (like literally as if he doesn't even have a self or identity that's distinct from Maria's influence) devotion to Maria. What do you guys think? |
Dec 24, 2015 8:15 AM
#178
Dec 24, 2015 9:02 PM
#179
xzysc said: I have a problem: if the entire romantic premise between Kazuki and Maria relied on an emotional or even existential symmetry between the two (i.e. both are the other's sole reason for being etc.), how are we supposed to understand the fact that Kazuki was practically dragged into the whole shebang in the first place by Maria's flawed wish? To put it another way, just like how there is a zeroth Maria that exists prior to all boxes isn't there also a zeroth Kazuki who, if not for Maria's wish, would have possessed a different set of priorities and sense of being? And if thats the case, the entire ending -"happy" as it is (which is also ironic, seeing that Maria's relinquishment of her former wish actually accomplishes it) - seems to be predicated on the fact that Kazuki simply doesn't seem to care in any way (even after he finds out the truth from O in volume 5) about being manipulated by Maria's wishes since day one. So in fact, the only thing we know about Kazuki before Maria intervened is that he's super gentle to Yannagi -and we only know that because it was deemed significant by Maria and it ended up being the single factor that got Kazuki into the whole mess. This is all to say, this series is completely oriented towards Maria while Kazuki, interestingly, is an empty vessel who exists solely for Maria to achieve her real wish (i.e. to find a meaning to life). And thus, we arrive at the end of the tale with the strange discovery that Kazuki is in fact the flawless "box" of the story. But what about the zeroth Kazuki? How would he feel about everything? You know, that's a really good point. It is interesting to think about whether Kazuki really wanted to help Maria and if, like Maria, there is a different Kazuki that existed before her wish was made. However, here's how I saw it. I never got the sense that Kazuki's personality was changed because of Maria's wish. If I recall correctly, Maria subconsciously gave him the power to be her savior after hearing about how he helped Yannagi. Therefore, Kazuki's extreme devotion to Maria and the subsequent plot of the novels is all a direct result of decisions he made with his own free will, and the power of Maria's box enables him to become her savior. In this respect, I don't think there would be a zeroth Kazuki. While his connection with Maria is definitely a turning point in his life, he freely made the choice to devote his life to her. Therefore, there wouldn't be a zeroth Kazuki because there was never any part of him that desired something else and was forced into submission by something outside of his control. This is different from Maria's situation because her decisions and ideals in the novel are all influenced by her sister. Kazuki willingly chose to throw away everything for Maria, but the true Maria never would have chosen to become a box that grants other people's wishes. She only did so because she more or less felt controlled by the prophecy of her sister (I don't remember that part too well so correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore, there is a zeroth Maria because she felt controlled by an external force into going down a path she never would have taken. But, this situation is different for Kazuki since he was merely given power and allowed to make his own choices. It's still true that Maria (and by extension O) were drawn to him and dramatically impacted his life. But to say that there is a zeroth Kazuki because of their effect on him doesn't seem right to me. I have a hard time picturing a zeroth Kazuki deep inside of himself crying because the present Kazuki isn't living according to his true desires. But I think this comes down to a matter of perception and hinges upon whether or not Maria took away his free will. It's been a while since a read the series, so there's a lot of plot points that I don't remember well. But I think you have a really interesting idea here. |
Jan 9, 2016 7:31 PM
#180
sayanas said: xzysc said: I have a problem: if the entire romantic premise between Kazuki and Maria relied on an emotional or even existential symmetry between the two (i.e. both are the other's sole reason for being etc.), how are we supposed to understand the fact that Kazuki was practically dragged into the whole shebang in the first place by Maria's flawed wish? To put it another way, just like how there is a zeroth Maria that exists prior to all boxes isn't there also a zeroth Kazuki who, if not for Maria's wish, would have possessed a different set of priorities and sense of being? And if thats the case, the entire ending -"happy" as it is (which is also ironic, seeing that Maria's relinquishment of her former wish actually accomplishes it) - seems to be predicated on the fact that Kazuki simply doesn't seem to care in any way (even after he finds out the truth from O in volume 5) about being manipulated by Maria's wishes since day one. So in fact, the only thing we know about Kazuki before Maria intervened is that he's super gentle to Yannagi -and we only know that because it was deemed significant by Maria and it ended up being the single factor that got Kazuki into the whole mess. This is all to say, this series is completely oriented towards Maria while Kazuki, interestingly, is an empty vessel who exists solely for Maria to achieve her real wish (i.e. to find a meaning to life). And thus, we arrive at the end of the tale with the strange discovery that Kazuki is in fact the flawless "box" of the story. But what about the zeroth Kazuki? How would he feel about everything? You know, that's a really good point. It is interesting to think about whether Kazuki really wanted to help Maria and if, like Maria, there is a different Kazuki that existed before her wish was made. However, here's how I saw it. I never got the sense that Kazuki's personality was changed because of Maria's wish. If I recall correctly, Maria subconsciously gave him the power to be her savior after hearing about how he helped Yannagi. Therefore, Kazuki's extreme devotion to Maria and the subsequent plot of the novels is all a direct result of decisions he made with his own free will, and the power of Maria's box enables him to become her savior. In this respect, I don't think there would be a zeroth Kazuki. While his connection with Maria is definitely a turning point in his life, he freely made the choice to devote his life to her. Therefore, there wouldn't be a zeroth Kazuki because there was never any part of him that desired something else and was forced into submission by something outside of his control. This is different from Maria's situation because her decisions and ideals in the novel are all influenced by her sister. Kazuki willingly chose to throw away everything for Maria, but the true Maria never would have chosen to become a box that grants other people's wishes. She only did so because she more or less felt controlled by the prophecy of her sister (I don't remember that part too well so correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore, there is a zeroth Maria because she felt controlled by an external force into going down a path she never would have taken. But, this situation is different for Kazuki since he was merely given power and allowed to make his own choices. It's still true that Maria (and by extension O) were drawn to him and dramatically impacted his life. But to say that there is a zeroth Kazuki because of their effect on him doesn't seem right to me. I have a hard time picturing a zeroth Kazuki deep inside of himself crying because the present Kazuki isn't living according to his true desires. But I think this comes down to a matter of perception and hinges upon whether or not Maria took away his free will. It's been a while since a read the series, so there's a lot of plot points that I don't remember well. But I think you have a really interesting idea here. So i finished volume 7 today, and i kinda agree with you on the zeroth Kazuki not being as important as the zeroth Maria. But in regards to his free will, I have to agree with xzysc; Kazuki did not willingly throw everything away. Before his role as the savior was revealed to him, Daiya and O mentioned that it seemed as if Kazuki was "floating", which I think stand for him not exactly being human, meaning his actions are still being influenced by his role despite him not knowing it. In volume 6, Daiya mentions that Kazuki's actions aren't even machine like. To me he was like a video game script; automatically reading the situation and making the necessary decisions to achieve his goal. Kazuki's willpower was completely and utterly destroyed by the flawless bliss, however every time he gave up he was forced to come back due to his role as the savior. Kazuki had no agency over his life; giving up or dieing were not viable options, saving Maria was the only thing he could do |
Q: The world won't change, you must change yourself in this world. Now, how will you change yourself? A: Become the god of the new world. |
Jan 10, 2016 3:18 PM
#181
Looking back a year ago, er I mean 2 years ago. (forgot it's already 2016) when I first know this LN. The first volume really interesting to me. I keep reading it and whitout I realize, I already spent 1 month when finished reading 6th volume. Waiting a year to read this great 7th volume (the good thing is I know this LN in 2014, so I'm not waiting that 2 years long for the 7th volume :v) In this volume I really impressed with kazuki's effort to bring back the zeroth maria even he must trapped inside her box, repeating the same day for 400000 times and keep commiting suicide to retain his memory!! (about 1111 years. surely no human mind can't keep his sanity after repeating suicide that much!). Anyway the last volume is really good. Thanks to EEE for translating this Epic Light Novel for us. God bless you!! |
Jan 12, 2016 10:48 AM
#182
This is what happens when you don't stay up to date, 6 months late but dayummmm, volume 7 was incredible. |
Jan 12, 2016 8:20 PM
#183
Read this months ago and felt compelled to leave a comment for my favorite light novel. I am so glad I picked this novel up right when volume 7 finished translating, the year-long wait for each volume would have destroyed me. Pleasant series that was very entertaining and captivating. 10/10 would reread in the future |
Jan 13, 2016 6:47 AM
#184
Kazuki become desparately crazy is an extreme greatness. Especially at that bang-bang pages. Maybe most emotional literature i read. Epilogue is just perfect. Though i expect another great cliffhanget at the end. 10/10. Gonna give more if i could. |
Jan 13, 2016 7:37 AM
#185
Alright, so I finally friggin finished this light novel. I gotta admit... Volume 7 was pretty damn great (except for Chapter 2, which I found was just average). The most insane ride I've ever experienced, and I probably won't read anything like it ever again. And a very satisfying ending, like others have said. Overall, I wouldn't call this series perfect (my main criticisms are Volume 2 being pretty lackluster, the rather lazily written, generic backstories for many characters [and seriously, almost everyone has some kind of love melodrama backstory... it's okay once or twice, but when everyone has it, then it just gets kinda tedious], and some prose/subtlety/over-explanation issues), but in the end, this was still quite a great reading experience. Probably 9.2-9.3/10 or so. |
LightBladeNovaJan 13, 2016 7:44 AM
"Beyond the veil of cherry blossom petals blown by the wind - almost like their promised reunion - Feelings pile up with the passage of time: once the torrent of emotions comes rushing down, what is the spectacle that awaits?" |
Jan 13, 2016 12:14 PM
#186
arms98 said: So i finished volume 7 today, and i kinda agree with you on the zeroth Kazuki not being as important as the zeroth Maria. But in regards to his free will, I have to agree with xzysc; Kazuki did not willingly throw everything away. Before his role as the savior was revealed to him, Daiya and O mentioned that it seemed as if Kazuki was "floating", which I think stand for him not exactly being human, meaning his actions are still being influenced by his role despite him not knowing it. In volume 6, Daiya mentions that Kazuki's actions aren't even machine like. To me he was like a video game script; automatically reading the situation and making the necessary decisions to achieve his goal. Kazuki's willpower was completely and utterly destroyed by the flawless bliss, however every time he gave up he was forced to come back due to his role as the savior. Kazuki had no agency over his life; giving up or dieing were not viable options, saving Maria was the only thing he could do Yeah, I think this just comes down to a difference in interpretation. I went back to try and locate where in the novel the author described pre-Maria Kazuki, but I couldn't find it. I don't remember any point at which the author explicitly indicated that Kazuki's willpower was "completely and utterly destroyed by the flawless bliss," but if that's true, it does make the end of the story pretty bleak. I also don't really agree with the part about Kazuki not being entirely human, but it's definitely a possible interpretation. I think the fact that all of this is up to debate is one of the strongest points of the series and a sign of a really good story. It certainly gives us a lot to think about. |
Jan 13, 2016 4:53 PM
#187
sayanas said: arms98 said: So i finished volume 7 today, and i kinda agree with you on the zeroth Kazuki not being as important as the zeroth Maria. But in regards to his free will, I have to agree with xzysc; Kazuki did not willingly throw everything away. Before his role as the savior was revealed to him, Daiya and O mentioned that it seemed as if Kazuki was "floating", which I think stand for him not exactly being human, meaning his actions are still being influenced by his role despite him not knowing it. In volume 6, Daiya mentions that Kazuki's actions aren't even machine like. To me he was like a video game script; automatically reading the situation and making the necessary decisions to achieve his goal. Kazuki's willpower was completely and utterly destroyed by the flawless bliss, however every time he gave up he was forced to come back due to his role as the savior. Kazuki had no agency over his life; giving up or dieing were not viable options, saving Maria was the only thing he could do Yeah, I think this just comes down to a difference in interpretation. I went back to try and locate where in the novel the author described pre-Maria Kazuki, but I couldn't find it. I don't remember any point at which the author explicitly indicated that Kazuki's willpower was "completely and utterly destroyed by the flawless bliss," but if that's true, it does make the end of the story pretty bleak. I also don't really agree with the part about Kazuki not being entirely human, but it's definitely a possible interpretation. I think the fact that all of this is up to debate is one of the strongest points of the series and a sign of a really good story. It certainly gives us a lot to think about. "- What was her [Maria] name again? My last memories of her have been painted over by the repetitions of this day. If that was the plan of my enemy, then his plan succeeded. The sheer weight of time has driven her out of my head. I can't save her nor is there any point in my actions anymore. I was defeated in every respect." This is after an unknown amount of repetitions, of giving in and remembering his purpose. After this, Kazuki goes back to the campfire and confesses his love for Mogi, but then proclaims "And thus, my long, long fight has finally come to an end. If only that were true." Kazuki admits that he was defeated and tries to give up, but he knows that sooner or later he's going to be drawn back in due to his role as the savior. I 100% agree with you that the end of this story was very bleak. I am that 1 person that disliked this chapter, like how can you do something so terrible to the main character of your story. |
Q: The world won't change, you must change yourself in this world. Now, how will you change yourself? A: Become the god of the new world. |
Jan 23, 2016 9:22 AM
#188
I actually planned to read it back in March last year but I put this series off considering the final volume was coming out. This is a series that is easily marathoned. The plot with all the boxes may seem absurd and strange at first but all the loose ends tie in together in terrific fashion. Although some things were predictable like Aya's death with her parents, I never complained. 10/10. |
All credit goes to Sacred. |
Mar 10, 2016 10:47 AM
#189
At last I sat down and finished this series, took me way to long. But damn that was one hell of an ending, and that epilogue was sooo beautiful. This is defiantly the best book(series) I have ever read, I haven't read so many books(yet) but I think it's gonna be hard to surpass this one. 10/10 And also! I'm really thankful for the translator, so I could read and enjoy this amazing book series. Thank you very much, you're da real MVP! |
Apr 1, 2016 5:52 AM
#190
This was my first light novel. I enjoyed it but don't think it's quite as amazing as some people seem to think. The main problem I had with the series was the relationship between Kazuki and Maria. For the longest time it just felt so fake and forced. Yeah, they spent that eternity together in the Rejecting Classroom and that's supposed to make them closer to each other than anyone else. But I just didn't feel it. There was just no chemistry between them, their interactions somehow lacked any kind of warmth and emotion (might also be because Kazuki was so unbelievably bland for most of the series). In my opinion it wasn't really "love" but just a really unhealthy and weird obsession with each other. Anyway, I didn't buy it and could never shake this thought off throughout the entire series, which kinda diminished my enjoyment. (As far as the romance department goes I preferred the Mogi X Kazuki pairing) Also the Kokone x Daiya relationship was MUCH more interesting and emotional. That being said, I quite liked the series overall and rate it 8/10. |
grandy_UiDApr 1, 2016 6:26 AM
Apr 1, 2016 12:42 PM
#191
I've just ended this magnificent novel and am sad to part with it. But I just have one question, does Hoshino get his speech back at the end after staying in a catatonic state for almost 2 years. I got wedding part but this still not well explained. |
Apr 1, 2016 10:19 PM
#192
grandy_UiD said: This was my first light novel. I enjoyed it but don't think it's quite as amazing as some people seem to think. The main problem I had with the series was the relationship between Kazuki and Maria. For the longest time it just felt so fake and forced. Yeah, they spent that eternity together in the Rejecting Classroom and that's supposed to make them closer to each other than anyone else. But I just didn't feel it. There was just no chemistry between them, their interactions somehow lacked any kind of warmth and emotion (might also be because Kazuki was so unbelievably bland for most of the series). In my opinion it wasn't really "love" but just a really unhealthy and weird obsession with each other. Anyway, I didn't buy it and could never shake this thought off throughout the entire series, which kinda diminished my enjoyment. (As far as the romance department goes I preferred the Mogi X Kazuki pairing) Also the Kokone x Daiya relationship was MUCH more interesting and emotional. That being said, I quite liked the series overall and rate it 8/10. Imao the relationship dynamic between kazuki and maria is one of the greatest I've even seen in anything ever. After the time that they spent in the rejecting classroom, Maria knew kazuki so well that she could predict his thought process and what he was going to say. Remember that their relationship wasn't necessarily romantic to begin with, they were two people with an inseparable bond after spending a life time together, and with actions like the one i mentioned and the opening ceremony it was easy to buy into it. Rafaello_Myles said: I've just ended this magnificent novel and am sad to part with it. But I just have one question, does Hoshino get his speech back at the end after staying in a catatonic state for almost 2 years. I got wedding part but this still not well explained. yes he does, its implied that the " " he says is Maria when he regains consciousness, and after they get married he seems to be back to full functionality. |
Q: The world won't change, you must change yourself in this world. Now, how will you change yourself? A: Become the god of the new world. |
Apr 2, 2016 1:06 AM
#193
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. There was no actual romance between them. The author did add some scenes where they were affectionate with each other later, but those were the ones that felt fake and forced to me (personal opinion), the ones I "didn't buy". Some might argue that the bond they shared was even stronger than simple love and in a sense I agree. Now whether you like the particular relationship they had is a question of personal preferrence. And as far as that goes, their creepy obsession with each other was a part of the story I didn't particularly enjoy. The non-romantic part seemed really unhealthy (but was kind of interesting I guess?) and the few romantic parts came off as the author trying to force the "see, they DO actually love each other romantically" down my throat. Personally I would go as far as saying they did not love each other. They married because they had a crippling dependency (emotionally and otherwise) on each other and couldn't live without each other. And depending on the cirumstances this is not actually as beautiful as it might sound. In fact, it's not even nice. This all sounds harsher than it is and I'm not saying this was actually terrible. But it was the part of the series I disliked the most and that constantly made me lose my immersion in the story. |
grandy_UiDApr 2, 2016 1:12 AM
Apr 2, 2016 4:45 AM
#194
grandy_UiD said: Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. There was no actual romance between them. The author did add some scenes where they were affectionate with each other later, but those were the ones that felt fake and forced to me (personal opinion), the ones I "didn't buy". Some might argue that the bond they shared was even stronger than simple love and in a sense I agree. Now whether you like the particular relationship they had is a question of personal preferrence. And as far as that goes, their creepy obsession with each other was a part of the story I didn't particularly enjoy. The non-romantic part seemed really unhealthy (but was kind of interesting I guess?) and the few romantic parts came off as the author trying to force the "see, they DO actually love each other romantically" down my throat. Personally I would go as far as saying they did not love each other. They married because they had a crippling dependency (emotionally and otherwise) on each other and couldn't live without each other. And depending on the cirumstances this is not actually as beautiful as it might sound. In fact, it's not even nice. This all sounds harsher than it is and I'm not saying this was actually terrible. But it was the part of the series I disliked the most and that constantly made me lose my immersion in the story. I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I don't think they are bad things, in fact i think they enhance the story. Their relationship turned unhealthy because kazuki became the savior, he literally had no choice but to pursue Maria. Maria never officially said she loved Kazuki until after he came out of the flawless bliss. She most defiantly cared about him before then, but after she witnessed what her flawless bliss did to him she then decided she would take care of him and they would get married. It does kind urk me how one sided their relationship was and how Maria dragged kazuki into this shit show but that was THE event at the core of this entire story so i can't complain that much. While that may be kinda fucked up this story most defiantly does not have a traditional happy ending. |
Q: The world won't change, you must change yourself in this world. Now, how will you change yourself? A: Become the god of the new world. |
Apr 2, 2016 1:40 PM
#195
An incontestable masterpiece, the ending was so satisfying, Daiya was my favorite character and I can't wait to re read this novel (one day) - 10/10. |
Apr 14, 2016 8:31 AM
#196
Yeah, just marathoned the whole series in under a week even though I was supposed to be doing my coursework, lol. I really enjoyed the story and couldn't stop reading. There were even some manly tears involved haha. Don't think I would have been able to cope with the 2 year hiatus' with some of the volume releases so I'm pretty glad I picked this up late ^^. Anyways, I was initially glad and satisfied with the happy ending and all but after reading the last few comments on here about the relationship between Maria and Kazuki, the happy mood was totally destroyed, thanks :( haha. It sucks to think that all the actions undertaking by Kazuki were due to the role imposed on him rather than his actual feelings for Maria. I still wanna believe that his actions were not due to his sense of obligation as the "savior". |
nakama201Apr 14, 2016 9:25 AM
Apr 23, 2016 4:33 AM
#197
First novel I picked to read. I had an absolute blast reading this which means a lot as my short attention span can only be so forgiving. Kinda sad that it's unlikely to find a novel as good as this one, but hopefully, I will prove myself wrong :D 10/10 without a doubt |
May 7, 2016 4:44 PM
#198
I've never read anything like it. It has literally blown me away. I'm so happy it exists. |
bavalurstMay 8, 2016 3:06 PM
Jun 30, 2016 4:01 PM
#199
Reading 7 volumes in 3 days might have been bad idea, reading vol 7 made me feel like I'm going insane myself. While story itself was amazing I have no idea how to rate it. It surely deserves 10 because, well, it's simply amazing. On the other hand I didn't enjoy it as much as I wanted to - surely not enough to give it max score. I'm also rather disappointed with epilogue. It was damn long and showed all characters, which I loved, but failed at the very end by cutting wedding part. Uh, cmon! All I wanted to know by that moment was Kazu's state. All I got was one short sentence from him, making it far too open for my taste. And I still prefer Mogi :s |
Jul 19, 2016 9:17 AM
#200
Only found out now that the last volume has been released so I had to read them all once again since it has been two years. But damn, that was worth it, so many feels at the end of this, even made me post something on a forum for the first time ^^ I haven't really read a lot of light novel as I prefer reading them on paper and they are hard to get in France, but this one is by far my favorite and it will remain first for a long time I think. Now just have to deal with the empty void that I get for having finished such a great story... |
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