Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. Episode 10 Discussion

swn said:
What can I say other than, you invested in the wrong stock. This show was never about anyone other than Sayu and Yoshida.

Mysticus92 said:

Then why most people are ranting on Sayu for being too focused in the anime more than LN?

bezardo said:
Why is this anime at 7.6 ish ??? not fair

bezardo said:
Why is this anime at 7.6 ish ??? not fair

bezardo said:
Why is this anime at 7.6 ish ??? not fair

CodeName_Jack said:
Fuck Usagi Drop. this even from the start unlike Usagi Drop, from the start it already had the Romance tag. You should already know where their relationship is going.

HikariShoumeiron said:
Oh, hey Gotou! I almost forgot you existed...
So, what exactly is the point in the "Gotou" character? I don't get it, she's just... there.
And what's more, something that keeps bothering me... So at the beginning Yoshida is super into her, right? And Gotou is into him, but they both don't say anything about it. They go out, have drinks, spend time wishing to move the relationship forward... And when they confess their feelings to each other, what happens?... They stop seeing each other and never interact again. Like ????... Please someone tell me if a missed something in earlier episodes because I don't understand two people confessing their love to each other and then acting like it was a rejection.

Phantasy_Starved said:


Nah, you haven't missed anything. The problem is mostly on Yoshida's (lack of) development for the last few episodes. I mean, Gotou taking a step back and watching how Yoshida handles the unfolding carnival is justified and believable, but the show abandoned a perfectly believable love triangle to jam home scene after scene of the MCs getting sentimental over a parting that no one believes is happening.

There's a hundred ways that they could have included more Gotou to achieve a more believable narrative in what would ultimately still be the Sayu route, including the part LN readers pointed that just got cut from the anime: a Gotou background story. Which, after reading what it was seems to me to be more begging from the author to root for the MCs "See? Gotou was just like Sayu at her age!" In being so transparently manipulative again though, leaving that explanation out was just as well, I guess.

I will say again, the story would have been much better served if Gotou and Yoshida had started to go out with each other, with a frustrated Sayu having to observe and learn why maturity matters in a healthy adult relationship. There's so many ways you could play out that scenario instead of just dropping the rivals altogether while everyone tries to hamfistedly explain why things must end this particular way. It's a total waste of everything they set up.

Romangelo said:
Yoshida lacks development?

He did develop, from being a Stifler mother cultist in earlier episodes, now he became a real man who admitted that he loves Sayu. He threw away the old way of thinking he used to have in earlier episodes and decided to do what he and Sayu will be happiest.

If he stays the same, doesn't feel anything for Sayu, and went for Gotou like he originally did. That, would make him lack development.

I don't understand you Gotou supporters. If Yoshida did what you guys wanted him to do, that would make him lack development and also make it a boring story overall.

Blue_Maroon said:
He’s really going to leave his job and go to Hokkaido for a high school girl with mommy and daddy issues. I’m not surprised anymore. Just like I’m not surprised that all of the supporting characters seem to push Yoshida toward pursuing this high school girl.

Wasn’t those two staying together supposed to be illegal and something that could have gotten him arrested? Why is everyone suddenly so OK with it and even so supportive that they are basically pushing the two together?

The fact that something like this is so well-liked in the anime community really disappoints me.

swn said:
He is only taking a leave to go to Hokkaido. He isn't leaving his company lmao.

Blue_Maroon said:

Notice how I never said he is quitting his job, I said “leave his job” as in taking a leave of absence of unspecified time. I intentionally changed my comment from “quit” to “leave” to avoid that misunderstanding.

swn said:
What's wrong in taking 3 days of leave?

Blue_Maroon said:


But if you are asking me “what’s wrong” in this situation, I would reply with a grown man leaving his job for an unspecified amount of time during a big project to follow a neglected high school girl that was staying in his apartment across the country. Imagine learning one of your coworkers did something like that, you would probably think something along the lines of “What the fuck?” and “Should I call the police?”

Phantasy_Starved said:


Help me understand all this development. I just don't see anything that you do. What do you mean about staying the same, never feeling anything for Sayu? He's always felt things for Sayu, he just insisted that he was drawing a line because he knew it was wrong. A line that kept getting fuzzier as he continued to give mixed messages. It's development to just give in? To stop playing the good guy and just plow her after all (you know it's coming)? What was the point then, just to say there's no denying a juicy 17 year-old? Again, I'm not offended, and I'm not even rooting against the Sayu route, but this is being resolved in the lamest way possible. They're even desperately trying to explain their way out of it by having every character switch gears and throw away everything they've ever said until this point to support chasing Sayu, even the brother who actually apologized - apologized! - to Yoshida for god really knows what. Instead of showing us development the anime is begging for us to understand - well, I don't understand, except to say that the writer had a good concept and endpoint but didn't know how to get there believably and enjoyably.

swn said:
It's only 3 days calm down. And why the hell are you asking that question now of all times. Wasn't it made clear in the anime that his colleagues knew it and didn't report him because they trust him. Stop projecting your personal values on the characters in the anime. It's silly.

Blue_Maroon said:

I gotta ask first if you know for sure that it is just 3 days leave, because the amount of time that he is planning on leaving for has not been specified in the anime yet.

But if you are asking me “what’s wrong” in this situation, I would reply with a grown man leaving his job for an unspecified amount of time during a big project to follow a neglected high school girl that was staying in his apartment across the country. Imagine learning one of your coworkers did something like that, you would probably think something along the lines of “What the fuck?” and “Should I call the police?”

Romangelo said:
I don't know why you need more explanation. It's crystal clear.

Isn't your profile pic from Yosuga no Sora? If you've watched that, you shouldn't have a problem understanding this.

Love is love. No explanation. No reason. Yoshida will now do whatever best for himself and Sayu. Company, works, Gotou, what's right or wrong, polices, jail, they all go down the toilet. Only Sayu matters.

Blue_Maroon said:

And why do you specify "your personal values"? Isn't it common logic that what Yoshida is doing is insanely depraved and illegal? Do you not share these basic values?

I know that the characters have all been OK with it (which was already a huge stretch), but they have gone from just being OK with it to actively pushing him into a romantic relationship with her. Even if that isn't their diegetic motives, it is essentially trying to convince the viewer that this relationship is acceptable because these other characters support it. Gross.

Phantasy_Starved said:


Okay, just to be clear over the internet, I have a big fat grin on my face as I write this. I'm not arguing, I'm merely... bouncing a few ideas around for you and others who read this to consider.

First, well spotted on Yosuga no Sora, my favorite trashy anime, and Akira will always be best girl. That being said, I really don't see many parallels between that anime and this one aside from the forbidden love angle, but I'll let that one go, because it's not the point.

So, it is possible in fiction, as is your only argument, that someone learning that they don't just like someone, but they love someone, is character progression. In fact, this concept within the romance genre has been overdone to the point of being trite, and by god if that's the only message this anime has to offer then that's just another reason to flush this story to the deepest level of the Abyss. "Love is love" huh, where have I heard that before, gee.

My second point is again that Yoshida isn't falling in love as much as he's giving in to what he claims to know is wrong. The anime knows the whole way that he hasn't been doing the right thing, that he's been leaving the door open the whole time for obvious reasons, and so the whole way it has all the characters vociferously and enthusiastically tell us what a great guy Yoshida is and how noble he is for what he's doing with Sayu. He isn't, and he's not. Just because he waits a few weeks to manipulate her into becoming emotionally attached to him before hooking up (and he is doing that, whether he realizes it or not) doesn't make him any better than the first dudes she's been with, he's just playing the long game.

This is the key point that people keep misunderstanding about us detractors though: The Sayu route itself isn't the problem, it's how we got here. It's way too fast, and the reason we're supposed to accept all this is that other men were more rapey, and Sayu wasn't loved by her mother. This is total weaksauce, and that's why a lot of people around here aren't buying it. It's not out of being offended, or not recognizing the inevitable story pairing, but a good story needs believable progression and this one just faceplants.

And finally: you say, again, "Love is love. No explanation. No reason. Yoshida will now do whatever best for himself and Sayu. Company, works, Gotou, what's right or wrong, polices, jail, they all go down the toilet." This actually proves my point. In the context that they set up for the first seven episodes, all these things you list are mutually exclusive. Real life, and therefore believable modern fiction, I'm sad to say, depends on explanation and reason. Right and wrong does, in fact, wind up mattering. And even if Yoshida gets permission from Sayu's Mom to make this pairing not-as-illegal, I will take that as another forced story point that simply has to happen so the author can superficially and unimaginatively connect Point A with Point B.

Romangelo said:
Why does it needs to have complicated story progression? Can't it just be a straight forward romance story? So what if it goes straight from point A to point B?

It's like people expect too much from it, just because it has some edgy plot so now it's obligated to send messages to the whole world and raise awareness of some social problems. No, it's just a romance story. You mistook it for a social documentary.

swn said:
Again you are projecting your personal values. What Yoshida is doing is certainly illegal but in what way is it depraved? Just you saying it doesn't make it so. How is it a huge stretch for Yoshida's friends to trust him? Here's a news flash, they don't share the same personal values as you. Shocking I know.

Blue_Maroon said:

It's depraved because the reason he cares so deeply about her was because she does basic relationship stuff for him. This is shown as much in the fireworks episode, I believe, when he imagines his life with her gone and it's just him eating alone in his apartment. Everything that he "loves" about her is common in healthy relationships, which he could have with 2 adults, so it is depraved because he is clinging to a high school girl because he is too much of a loser to realize that he could easily find what he is looking for somewhere else.

swn said:
It's not a matter of who can fill that gap for him. It's a matter of Sayu being there for him when he needed it. He didn't let Sayu stay just so that he could fulfill his needs. He let her stay because of her circumstances only. It was only later that he got attached to her because of how his life changed due to her presence. Sure, someone else could've filled that role but they didn't. Once you fall for someone, it's no longer just a switch you can turn off and replace her with someone else. The fact that Yoshida keeps his feelings to himself is proof that he isn't in fact depraved. He knows where to draw the line.

Blue_Maroon said:


I get that feelings for one person can’t be replaced by another just because they can fulfill the same needs. However, this anime has not shown ANYTHING to show us that she provides something special for him. They do not have any special chemistry. She teases him a bit, but I wouldn’t say they have any more chemistry than Yoshida and the other girls.

Other romance anime to good jobs showing why the characters need each other. This anime just tells us that they need each other, while not showing us why they need each other specifically. (Get what I’m saying? It’s kinda hard to describe it over text)

Sayu needed a guy to respect her while she pulled herself together. Yoshida needed a girlfriend/someone who did things that a girlfriend does. This anime doesn’t show why they need each other apart from those basic desires, they just tell us that it is the case.

swn said:
I think that's just on you for subconsciously rejecting their relationship throughout the anime based on your personal values. The anime does a find job to build their relationship. The LN does an even better job so I suggest giving it a read if you are curious.

borderliner said:
Why does anyone even care enough to comment on this show any more?

Blue_Maroon said:

I mean, “It’s Too Sick To Call This Love” did a better job at portraying a romantic relationship between an adult man and a high school girl and that is in this same season. I ended up dropping that one, but it was because of everything aside from the character interactions. The way this relationship is portrayed feels a lot grosser because he is like her dad, it gives fanservice of her, and his friends are all-for it.

I’m sure the LN does a better job with it, however I only watch anime so I won’t check it out. We can end this discussion here if you’re fine with that. Cheers.

Delirium231 said:
This show had a good start, but as the show progressed it became more and more stupid. The rapist suddenly being redeemed to Sayu's brother magically knowing where Sayu is without explanation. The story is heavily contrived.

swn said:
The rapist wasn't redeemed. Sayu hasn't forgiven him for that. But they can't exactly report him to the police without getting Yoshida in trouble as well. So as long as the rapist kept his end of the bargain of not exposing Sayu, they had to settle for the status quo. As for how Issa discovered Sayu's whereabouts, he is the president of a big corporation. He can easily hire detectives to find out where she was. She wasn't exactly being discreet. Such things should be obvious without having the show spoon-feed it.