Vivy: Fluorite Eye's Song Episode 9 Discussion

Spicelit said:
Damn, as always. After this episode, how can anybody think Matsumoto is evil? Probably the best episode so far, but you can say that about all of the episodes so far. My boy Tappei (and WitStudio), putting in the hours for this wonderful experience.

unafruta said:

Only that? Well, in the first chapters they tell you that the evolution of the AI ​​is equivalent to how developed the construction of the tower is.

Also, the AI ​​mission could be interpreted as a life purpose, even when Vivy questions "doing things with all my heart" it could easily be interpreted as "enjoying" despite that, this last chapter has shown that we have not yet delved Enough on this topic.

The idea of emotions in AI is very weird. SInce emotion is basically due to chemical reactions. AI wouldn't be made with that sort of capability so it doesn't make sense.
About the mission thing, for example Vivy's mission is to make all humans happy through her 'singing'. But for some reason she conveniently takes this to mean she has an obligation to save all humanity and make sure they survive so she can sing for them. This is a huge stretch of logic. Also its not even consistent because if this was the case then wouldn't she have tried to save humans from anything and everything troubling them? Even before meeting Matsumoto

CzeroC said:
It's still going strong but I hope they're not biting more than they can chew with this time travel f***ckery. The whole deal with Ophelia kinda remind me of Perfect Blue but we hit the bad ending instead, welp. That said, I really enjoyed the farewell of Diva, this theme is not something new but they killed it with the atmosphere whew.

unafruta said:

Even if you give me that example, determinism is not entirely proven, so I cannot agree with you, also for us at present we cannot problematize and arrive at an absolute truth regarding AI. As I said earlier this series shapes your own way of thinking.
On the other hand, the mission of the AI as such is obvious, but for Vivy it is still unknown, as you said in the first chapter, the support AI tells Vivy that a gear cannot "sing with the heart" and that saving people is only in their programming.

This series tries to problematize about that and question whether we should see it in such a superficial way. The character of kakitani invites us to reflect on what Vivy has asked herself in all these chapters.
On the other hand, kakitani in the last episode presented his own reflection and problems in the plot.

ElPsyKongroo69 said:


The idea of emotions in AI is very weird. SInce emotion is basically due to chemical reactions. AI wouldn't be made with that sort of capability so it doesn't make sense.
About the mission thing, for example Vivy's mission is to make all humans happy through her 'singing'. But for some reason she conveniently takes this to mean she has an obligation to save all humanity and make sure they survive so she can sing for them. This is a huge stretch of logic. Also its not even consistent because if this was the case then wouldn't she have tried to save humans from anything and everything troubling them? Even before meeting Matsumoto

newluminous said:

Who knows maybe in the future the AIs will be capable of expressing human emotions.

Well if you rewatch ep 1 and ep 3 Vivy DID refuse to go with Matsumoto multiple times because singing was her only mission and yeah she had no obligation to fulfill Matsumoto's mission. She was only convinced because Matsumoto said that if everyone dies her singing becomes meaningless. She thought that Matsumoto's mission was kinda in alignment with hers but the end of ep 6 showed that she can't both destroy AIs and make everyone happy which made her system crash.

Also Kakitani literally said that AIs should stick to their missions just like you. That's the point.

ElPsyKongroo69 said:

My main problem was the mental gymnastics it took to decide her mission inherently involves saving people's future. Matsumoto's mission being "kinda" in alignment is not a strong enough reason for that.

AI showing concern for other AI to the point where it betrays their mission is also kinda stupid since they are literally built with a single goal in mind and their existence is based upon that goal. Antonio wanting Ophelia to sing "only for him" is honestly extremely stupid because he shouldn't even have the capability to want/think that in the first place.

newluminous said:
OK fair enough. if your whole gripe is that AIs in this show look like humans, develop human emotions, care about others like humans, then i won't comment on that. I think "Detroit: Become Human" also looks stupid to you. I just wanted to say that this show is consistent with its theme and it knows what it's doing.

ElPsyKongroo69 said:

I wouldn't mind the AI=Human idea if they had explained the reason AI are even capable of such things. They focused too much on the mission being the raison d'etre of AI for them to find loopholes to do things outside their mission. The show is still a bit of a mess but it does have 4 episodes to go so hopefully it clears things up. As it stand right now there are a lot of conveniences and irregularities.

I wouldn't mind the AI=Human idea if they had explained the reason AI are even capable of such things. They focused too much on the mission being the raison d'etre of AI for them to find loopholes to do things outside their mission. The show is still a bit of a mess but it does have 4 episodes to go so hopefully it clears things up. As it stand right now there are a lot of conveniences and irregularities.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:
this better win anime of the season.

DarkwindJR said:

Sadly, it can't. No matter how great a series is. The Fans dictate which is good and since Vivy needs quite a lot of braincells most folk aren't using that's quite a tall order. Vivy is losing to Fruit Baskets and 86 by a very wide margin in the popularity polls and views.

Franck_Nicolas said:
I didn't understand a single thing in this episode. I have no idea what happened, except that Vivy has schizophrenia :X or maybe there was nothing to understand ? Like I though Ophelia would bring something to the plot, but no they just fought and die. Was I supposed to care about their story ? Same thing for that black haired dude (already forgot his name), did he really appear in the story just to be beaten like a wimp? What s the point

I m not sure where this is going

PEDREIVAX said:

The mission this time around was to prevent Ophelia's suicide. Unfortunately, Ophelia was being controlled by her support AI for the sake of his mission so instead of finding a way to change how she interprets her mission, Matsumoto put both of them down like ol' yeller. This is supposed to represent the dynamic between Matsumoto and Vivy if push went to shove. Constantly throughout the previous arcs we see Matsumoto complain about Vivy and talk about doing things himself. So Ophelia and Antonio's story was less so something you the viewer should care about and moreso something Vivy and Matsumoto should care about. It was for the sake of their own development as characters with any attachment to Ophelia and Antonio being a bonus for the audience.

Kakitani came and went so soon for a couple reasons. For one, his story was developing over the course of the series and he should have already been dead, but his memories were uploaded into an AI and given a mission that kicks into action on the same day as Ophelia's incident. This revelation alone is enough to swing back over to the fact that time travel exists and Matsumoto isn't the only one making use of it. Kakitani, being the human with the most knowledge of Vivy, was the best shot at getting to her. So this question stands. Was the person who turned him into an AI intending on bringing the old Vivy back or were they trying to destroy her before she came back? This whole development with Kakitani is mystery central and doesn't really work well if you just focus on the fight.

Gilgameshuu said:
I see that a lot of people are not as impressed with this episode compared to Episode 6 or even but I think this episode is the most meaningful so far, while Episode 4 and 6 might have been more emotional, the themes and messages presented in this episode is the best and most thought-provoking so far. This episode wasn't simply just eyecandy, and it seems a lot of people focused too much on that and thus became confused and lost on what the message this episode was trying to portray that is told through the perspectives of Antonio and Kakitani, two separate, individual stories interwoven together seamlessly, Tappei likes writing events and stories that are happening at the same time then eventually these separate stories will come together as one, and build an overall theme, and I believe this episode showcased that beautifully.

First we have Antonio and Ophelia. Antonio believed that Ophelia who's mission is the sing to make people happy, but she has not fully achieved what she was capable of, and so as her partner AI who's mission is to support her, believing he could fulfill her mission better, he took supporting her literally and took over her body, and succeeded, he was able to fulfill both his mission of supporting her and her mission of making people happy, but we learn that what he truly wanted was for her, Ophelia to sing only for him, however as he had taken over her, that was no longer possible. While he was able to achieve better feats than what Ophelia herself did, he felt like his own singing was inferior to hers, like there was something he was missing, but he couldn't find what it was so as he felt like it was not the ideal singing. Ophelia had amazing singing, but she lacked the confidence, to which Antonio overcame when he took over her body but as a result he lacked something else instead, there was something in Ophelia's singing that is superior, and no matter how much success he gained he couldn't achieve that ideal singing which led to him deciding to self-destruct which started the whole First AI Suicide that we know Diva and Matsumoto are trying to prevent. But we learn in this episode that the reason Ophelia is able to sing like that is because she was singing for Antonio, but Antonio was only singing to make the people, the audience happy as it was Ophelia's mission, and that was what Antonio was missing.

Another important thing is that it develops Matsumoto, we see multiple instances throughout the show of Matsumoto simply wanting to do the Singularity Project by just himself without Vivy, but every time he never did and always stayed and relied on Vivy, Antonio is a what Matsumoto would have become if he took the same path as him and left his partner to fulfill his mission by himself.

Now we go to Kakitani's part of the episode, arguably one of the best written character in the series so far. We are presented once again with this recurring question: "What are AIs? are they simply just tools are are they "human" in some way?" We see instances where they are treated as tools, as human and even both, like with Kakitani's teacher's funeral, they were trying to treat him as human at the same time showing in full video to everyone his final moments like he is simply just an AI, so which is it? Are they treating him as an AI or a Human? How AIs are treated disgusted Kakitani and the only way he saw for that problem to end is if all AIs were eliminated, that's why he joined Toak. He believed that the continuous evolution of AI is a problem, they should just stick to what their sole purpose is, their mission, and not go any further, if they simply did just what they were born to do then his teacher wouldn't have died, why did he save everyone in the crash accident even though it resulted in his demise and the failure to fulfill his own mission? The reason he lives? That's why he obsessed over Vivy, he was an AI who reminded him of his teacher, that's why he became part-AI to find Vivy and seek her for an answer to his question, "That day... the day that teacher saved my life... Did my teacher... did he suffer the same way a human would have?" If he did could he be considered human? or if he didn't then he was simply just a tool. However as Vivy/Diva isn't human she doesn't have an answer to his question.

We learned a lot of things, namely that there is someone else from the future. They have gave Kakitani the logical bullet(Funimation has it translated as palette for some reason but I'm pretty sure it's a mistranslation.) and the Electronic Warfare Program which he gave to Antonio, and we will probably get more answers in these last 4 episodes as we near the end of the 100 year journey, only 40 more years left.

Then we get to the final scene between Diva and Vivy, the song lyrics perfectly reflect the scene. Goodbye Diva and welcome back Vivy.

Liddo-kun said:
ok, so terrorist boy went psycho crazy.. because people did human funeral for his robot teacher? Feels like a poorly written villain. Greatly reduced my enjoyment of the episode... less expenses, since I'm no longer motivated to buy anything from this show.

however, on the positive things. Matsumoto vs. Antonio is nice to watch - I was not able to follow the fight very well.. did Matsumoto win because he's more advanced ai than Antonio? Or they are equal, and Matsumoto just managed to outsmart him?

Gilgameshuu said:

You're oversimplifying Kakitani and his motivations, I would say he's one of the best written characters in the series maybe only Vivy beating him

Janethan23 said:

You should read what Gilgameshuu had posted at #151