why is this not ranked high enough ?

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May 2013

272

Feaor said:

Zefyris said:
You need to like detective story and like fantasy setting. + You need to be fine with average animation + you need to be fine with lots of dialogue and little action and no ecchi/comedy either .

I really like mystery and lots of dialogue (just take a look at my favorites) and don't mind fantasy so in theory I should like this show but I've find it incredibly dull so far and I lack the motivation to keep watching it.

Bah, Monogatari. I find the banter dull so I dropped it at Ep 3.

Aug 30, 2015 7:10 AM

#103

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Dec 2013

10536

Feaor said:

Zefyris said:
You need to like detective story and like fantasy setting. + You need to be fine with average animation + you need to be fine with lots of dialogue and little action and no ecchi/comedy either .

I really like mystery and lots of dialogue (just take a look at my favorites) and don't mind fantasy so in theory I should like this show but I've find it incredibly dull so far and I lack the motivation to keep watching it.

That's because neither 1st nor 2nd episode had any of that. Just keep on watching something woman!

Aug 30, 2015 7:13 AM

#104

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Aug 2015

193

Feaor said:

Zefyris said:
You need to like detective story and like fantasy setting. + You need to be fine with average animation + you need to be fine with lots of dialogue and little action and no ecchi/comedy either .

I really like mystery and lots of dialogue (just take a look at my favorites) and don't mind fantasy so in theory I should like this show but I've find it incredibly dull so far and I lack the motivation to keep watching it.

Definitely agree that the dialogue can be dull, most of the time it is too basic and you can't distinguish who is talking due to lack of idiosyncrasies other than when either Hans (Nyaa) or Chamo (third person) are talking. Granted, I can't help but feel that the problem lies with:

A) Crunchyroll aren't taking the subbing of this series seriously and so you get generalizations of what they are actually saying.
B) It is adapted from a light novel, so dialogue is usually basic anyway.

But I think the raw tension and stakes that the series has set up completely wipe away this problem, making theoretically boring chit chat seem so engaging.

Aug 30, 2015 7:15 AM

#105

Feaor

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Oct 2012

14691

robis798 said:
That's because neither 1st nor 2nd episode had any of that. Just keep on watching something woman!

I can't remember which episode I'm on but I'm further than that, I'm just really bad at updating my list recently since I'm sorta not watching anything.

Aug 30, 2015 8:09 AM

#106

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Dec 2013

10536

Feaor said:

robis798 said:
That's because neither 1st nor 2nd episode had any of that. Just keep on watching something woman!

I can't remember which episode I'm on but I'm further than that, I'm just really bad at updating my list recently since I'm sorta not watching anything.

Well real stuff begins at episode 5 iirc, but of course I doubt much would change since you already made your opinion about the show. I would say that the strength of the show is how well directed and crafted it is, not the plot ( which is also pretty nice ) because when I think about it, it would have been child's play to make the show same as something like Danmachi or whatever other lame LN adaptation, but seeing as you managed to finish the latter with ease and struggling to watch the former, maybe that's just your taste that is condensed bs with boobs as main attraction :>>>>>

Aug 30, 2015 8:17 AM

#107

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Aug 2010

252

Its not a good enough show?
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue. The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.
You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.
To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

Aug 30, 2015 8:21 AM

#108

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Dec 2013

10536

GrumpyWolf said:
Its not a good enough show?
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue. The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.
You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.
To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

So much bs in one post, a bit hard to believe it's a legit one.

Aug 30, 2015 8:36 AM

#109

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Aug 2010

252

robis798 said:
So much bs in one post, a bit hard to believe it's a legit one.

So much butthurt in one post, a bit hard to believe you can accept my opinion.

Aug 30, 2015 8:37 AM

#110

ggYeti

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Nov 2012

73

GrumpyWolf said:
Its not a good enough show?
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue. The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.
You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.
To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

+1

Aug 30, 2015 8:38 AM

#111

neolucaman

Offline

Apr 2014

790

GrumpyWolf said:
Its not a good enough show?
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue. The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.
You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.
To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

i think the whole point of this show to make us cheer generic demons to win against generic yuusha ;)

Aug 30, 2015 8:46 AM

#112

Zefyris

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Apr 2013

7960

GrumpyWolf said:

You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.

I agree with that, it's more a show that should be marathoned than being watched at the speed of one episode per week.

Aug 30, 2015 9:04 AM

#113

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Aug 2015

193

Zefyris said:

GrumpyWolf said:

You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.

I agree with that, it's more a show that should be marathoned than being watched at the speed of one episode per week.

I've heard only very positive reactions from those who've binged watched this series up till this point.

Aug 30, 2015 9:09 AM

#114

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Dec 2013

10536

GrumpyWolf said:

robis798 said:
So much bs in one post, a bit hard to believe it's a legit one.

So much butthurt in one post, a bit hard to believe you can accept my opinion.

I don't think I'm dumb enough to let myself get butthurt over random people not liking some anime and I'm also not dumb enough to see that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're projecting your personal dislike as "flaws" that show has.

GrumpyWolf said:
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue.

Since when are these the qualities of a bad show? I think it's quite contrary, as the opposite of these two things would make this show and almost always makes any show way way worse.

GrumpyWolf said:
The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.

Is it necessary to know and get in depth in all of the characters backstory and background for you to attach yourself more? We have background information on absolutely all of the seven braves, and we were even introduced with Fremy's, Adlet's backstory and origin quite in depth. It's more than dumb to expect or even say that there's a lack of information about the characters, and even more dumb to say that because there's lack of info about the characters people apparently can't get attached to them. This is a mystery show, characters' pasts have to be shrouded in mystery. And the amount of in depth backstories doesn't really correlate with viewer's attachement to a character as this show is simply not that type of show where you should care for the characters. This show is not about the characters, it's about the plot.

GrumpyWolf said:
You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.

It's only nonsense as long as you call it like that. It's absolutely your fault for not paying attention while watching because it's really not that complex to not understand something. Plus, if it's focused for the most of the show, shouldn't you on the contrary understand everything?

GrumpyWolf said:
To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

The bias is strong here. Generic story doesn't mean bad story, especially here in this show as we can clearly see that the events flow in much different direction as you would expect from a show that has such "generic" as you call it background and setting.

To sum up, you simply don't like the show and decided to make up "flaws" that are laughable and simply subjective. You're not interested in the show, you don't care about it, you miss on the details and stuff that is said or shown in the show so of course it becomes a "nonsense" to you. You're post can be summed up "I don't like this show" which is perfectly fine but the way you create flaws out of thin air has this bullshit feel about it.

goodshitgoOdshitAug 30, 2015 10:29 AM

Aug 30, 2015 9:31 AM

#115

Tylaen

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Apr 2015

4824

This thread gets more heated every week.

Aug 30, 2015 9:46 AM

#116

Ten

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May 2015

3235

robis798 said:

GrumpyWolf said:
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue.

Since when are these the qualities of a bad show? I think it's quite contrary, as the opposite of these two things would make this show and almost always makes any show way way worse.

It's a bad thing when there are just 12 episodes overall. You said it yourself that real stuff begins at episode 5 and it's like half of the entire show? Even if it gets better after this you can't just ignore those other episodes where nothing really happened.
And the dialogues aren't all that great either, a lot of things are just repeated in other words but with the same meaning.

Aug 30, 2015 10:16 AM

#117

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Dec 2013

10536

tenaugust said:

robis798 said:

Since when are these the qualities of a bad show? I think it's quite contrary, as the opposite of these two things would make this show and almost always makes any show way way worse.

It's a bad thing when there are just 12 episodes overall. You said it yourself that real stuff begins at episode 5 and it's like half of the entire show? Even if it gets better after this you can't just ignore those other episodes where nothing really happened.
And the dialogues aren't all that great either, a lot of things are just repeated in other words but with the same meaning.

I'm not saying this show is flawless, yes, the fact that it has 12 episodes is probably the biggest flaw because it will only adapt 1 volume out of I dunno 7 that have been released. But I somehow came to terms with the fact that it will be only 1 arc out of a big story, but it will be a well made one. I suppose a lot of people expected or maybe still expect some major conclusion, that their journey will actually end, which is more than naive. I personally cannot be more happy that the studio chose this way of adapting the light novels instead of how most LNs are adapted every season - multiple novels compressed together into one measly 1 cour which results in some shallow summaries of a story.

Nothing really happened is not true because on the contrary there's stuff happening and shown every minute, but of course it's a bit different from things done in other fantasy LN adaptations where an episode has a whole volume adapted. I think proper storytelling and build up is crucial to a fantasy adventure show like RnY, but a lot of people apparently like "right here and now" story flow. Dialogues are also subjective. Firstly, I stand with the claim that there is nothing more overrated than action. Secondly, this is not Monogatari which really showcases the art of dialogues, it's simply a show that has a lot of background information plus the show is about figuring out the culprit so interactions between characters are necessary. But of course, if you're simply not that interested in the show and its story than everything, not only the dialogues, will become not so great.

Aug 30, 2015 10:29 AM

#118

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Aug 2015

193

tenaugust said:

robis798 said:

Since when are these the qualities of a bad show? I think it's quite contrary, as the opposite of these two things would make this show and almost always makes any show way way worse.

It's a bad thing when there are just 12 episodes overall. You said it yourself that real stuff begins at episode 5 and it's like half of the entire show? Even if it gets better after this you can't just ignore those other episodes where nothing really happened.
And the dialogues aren't all that great either, a lot of things are just repeated in other words but with the same meaning.

I agree that the weakest part of the show was those first few episodes but I disagree that nothing worthwhile happened. It was the setup to the mystery so they needed to slowly build up the tension and develop characters along the way which is what those episodes did. It basically instated the atmosphere of the show.

If you're rating it under the basis that this is an adventure series, then yeah it was trash. But if you're using the criteria for a mystery show, it was more than necessary, believe me.
You'll probably only realize this by the end of episode 12 or if you decide to re-watch RnY.

Aug 30, 2015 10:42 AM

#119

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Nov 2009

8716

robis798 said:
Secondly, this is not Monogatari which really showcases the art of dialogues, it's simply a show that has a lot of background information plus the show is about figuring out the culprit so interactions between characters are necessary.

This. Interactions between characters are so much more interesting than Victorique simply tapping into her "wellspring of knowledge" and giving us the answer. And they even manage to give us some cool fights along the way (even if they could be cooler)!

Aug 30, 2015 10:52 AM

#120

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Aug 2010

252

robis798 said:

Oh please, you are the bias one and a butthurt one at that. I have seen "fans" like you in MAL before.
First off, I didnt say the show is bad, stop making things up. OP asked why isnt the score higher and I only said maybe cause its not good enough to have it.
Im not making stuff up, its what I think about the show. Either you think its a flaw or not I really dont care. Im just stating what I think its the shows flaws.
Again making things up. I did not say people cant get attached, I said its hard.
So in 9 episodes we explored 2 characters and for the rest we have: Airhead tits, The friendzoned robot, loli psycopath, mature serious onee chan and badass cat guy. Great cast to make such a slow and heavy dialogue focused anime.
Hey I forget stuff and after weeks of barrier talk in such a heavy dialogue focused anime, Im somewhat lost. I have seen similar opinions about it so I dont see why are you so butthurt about it.´
Again, I did not say generic=bad.
The fact that you waste time with my subjective opinion is laughable.
For the rest of the stuff u wrote, anyone can see you are just making up things I didnt say.
To sum up, I did not write a review or make a recommendation of the show. Its just a random person posting an opinion about a show. You either agree or disagree and you move on.

Aug 30, 2015 11:20 AM

#121

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Dec 2013

10536

It indeed seems I have wasted my time on you. I did not know that expressing opposing opinion on your questionable criticism is being butthurt, oh well you learn something everyday. Maybe you should express yourself a little better in your first try as you are so quick to correct and defend yourself, I'm pretty sure I did not misinterpret anything in your first post.

Aug 30, 2015 11:28 AM

#122

KneelBeforeMe

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Apr 2013

7993

boring, shit cgi.

Aug 30, 2015 11:34 AM

#123

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Aug 2010

252

robis798 said:
It indeed seems I have wasted my time on you. I did not know that expressing opposing opinion on your questionable criticism is being butthurt, oh well you learn something everyday. Maybe you should express yourself a little better in your first try as you are so quick to correct and defend yourself, I'm pretty sure I did not misinterpret anything in your first post.

Says my opinon is bs and questioning its legitimacy = expressing opposing opinion
Not buthurt at all....Yea always something new to learn.
Maybe you should read what I write instead of misinterpreting everything.
Move on man, move on.

Aug 30, 2015 1:17 PM

#124

ManlyTear

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Oct 2013

1290

Well, I've enjoyed it ever since the 1st ep and that hasn't changed. Thing is, I'm not even such a big mystery and although I certainly like a good mystery every now & then, Rokka's main appeal to me is it's attention to detail, especially when it comes to characterization. What's great is that the characterization has been constantly present. We learn more about our braves whether no matter what they're doing, whether they're fighting, trying to find out who's the 7th or simply chatting. The mystery benefits as a result as it keep's the audience guessing who's most & least likely to be the fake based on their behavior, personality and questioning what reasons would they have to work against the others.

And I don't get why this would be considered a series that lack's action - I think it has a decent amount and some of the fights, such as Adlet & Han's, look pretty good. Even if it's a fantasy anime about heroes defeating the big baddie it doesn't need to have a ton of action to make it good. A few are enough, as long as they're meaningful, IMO.

The other thing I wish would be a little more expanded upon would be the setting. Due to slow pace & attention to detail, we've been getting some decent world building but I just can't help but want to know more, especially about the fiends but I guess that'll come in another season(assuming we get one...).

Aug 30, 2015 2:39 PM

#125

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May 2013

272

Sourire said:
boring, shit cgi.

Nice criticism, m8

Aug 30, 2015 8:00 PM

#126

DatRandomDude

News Team

YEEHAW

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Nov 2014

9903

Ugoki said:

Sourire said:
boring, shit cgi.

Nice criticism, m8

Boring ? No but the CGI is definitly shit.

Aug 30, 2015 8:19 PM

#127

CyberNT

Offline

Aug 2013

285

GrumpyWolf said:

robis798 said:
It indeed seems I have wasted my time on you. I did not know that expressing opposing opinion on your questionable criticism is being butthurt, oh well you learn something everyday. Maybe you should express yourself a little better in your first try as you are so quick to correct and defend yourself, I'm pretty sure I did not misinterpret anything in your first post.

Says my opinon is bs and questioning its legitimacy = expressing opposing opinion
Not buthurt at all....Yea always something new to learn.
Maybe you should read what I write instead of misinterpreting everything.
Move on man, move on.

Your opinion is nonsense because it uses vague words like interesting and attached, while also using buzzwords like generic that doesn't mean anything when it comes to critcism. Moreover, you're trying to pass up objective conclusions based on very subjective arguments.

And anyone who doesn't agree with your stupid argumentation is apparently "butthurt" (another buzzword that you cling to use because your vocbulary is very limited).

I'm not sure if you're a troll or an idiot. But reading your previous comments hints that you're the latter.

Aug 30, 2015 10:17 PM

#128

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May 2013

272

DatRandomDude said:

Ugoki said:

Nice criticism, m8

Boring ? No but the CGI is definitly shit.

I agree.

But eh, I'm not really bothered with it myself.

Aug 31, 2015 2:57 AM

#129

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Aug 2010

252

Kolios said:

GrumpyWolf said:

Says my opinon is bs and questioning its legitimacy = expressing opposing opinion
Not buthurt at all....Yea always something new to learn.
Maybe you should read what I write instead of misinterpreting everything.
Move on man, move on.

Your opinion is nonsense because it uses vague words like interesting and attached, while also using buzzwords like generic that doesn't mean anything when it comes to critcism. Moreover, you're trying to pass up objective conclusions based on very subjective arguments.

And anyone who doesn't agree with your stupid argumentation is apparently "butthurt" (another buzzword that you cling to use because your vocbulary is very limited).

I'm not sure if you're a troll or an idiot. But reading your previous comments hints that you're the latter.

Another one with reading problems. You have to stop questioning everyones "criticism" and enforcing your understanding of it.
Nobody cares about what you think and you come here and add nothing to the discussion and start saying "your vocbulary is very limited" and "you're a troll or an idiot".
Vague words huh? "Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation."
You are so smart but dont know what attached to a character means?
Generic story = Common, ordinary, vague story.
Says my opinon is bs and questioning its legitimacy after my first post. Literally few minutes after I posted. How is that not butthurt? Butthurt = annoyed, bothered, bugged or offended.
"I did not write a review or make a recommendation of the show. Its just a random person posting an opinion about a show. You either agree or disagree and you move on."

Aug 31, 2015 3:41 AM

#130

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Nov 2009

8716

GrumpyWolf said:
Whatever

Basically, your impressions of the show are diametrically opposed to ours. That makes us think that your criticism is not a legitimate one.
Also, you resort to personal attacks on everybody who disagrees with you. That's uncool, because forums are for discussion, and disagreement is the fuel of discussion.

By the way, your word definitions suck.

GrumpyWolf said:
Butthurt = annoyed, bothered, bugged or offended.

That makes the word so vague it is meaningless. Of course people are going to get bothered, otherwise they won't write anything. Did you get butthurt to write your initial post in this discussion at all?

Aug 31, 2015 4:36 AM

#131

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Aug 2010

252

flannan said:

GrumpyWolf said:
Whatever

Basically, your impressions of the show are diametrically opposed to ours. That makes us think that your criticism is not a legitimate one.
Also, you resort to personal attacks on everybody who disagrees with you. That's uncool, because forums are for discussion, and disagreement is the fuel of discussion.

By the way, your word definitions suck.

GrumpyWolf said:
Butthurt = annoyed, bothered, bugged or offended.

That makes the word so vague it is meaningless. Of course people are going to get bothered, otherwise they won't write anything. Did you get butthurt to write your initial post in this discussion at all?

So my opinion is opposed to yours so you think its not legitimate? Thats the definition of MAL right there. Read what I write pls.
Personal attacks? See Kolios post. Thats a personal attack.
It is for discussion but I fail to see that when someone says "So much bs in one post, a bit hard to believe it's a legit one." or make posts like Kolios did. And one thing is to disagree another is to make up stuff I did not say.
"By the way, your word definitions suck." Another personal attack. And thats coming from a person that just wrote "Also, you resort to personal attacks on everybody who disagrees with you. That's uncool, because forums are for discussion, and disagreement is the fuel of discussion."

You are saying people need to be bothered to write stuff. I fail to see how that leads to a healthy discussion. Its not normal to get bothered by someones else opinion/post. You can disagree but to actually feel offended by it....

ok000Aug 31, 2015 4:45 AM

Aug 31, 2015 4:41 AM

#132

RPSB9

Offline

Apr 2015

3453

Because it's supposed to be an "adventure story and not a "detective story".

#CHEXIT

Aug 31, 2015 5:37 AM

#133

idungoof

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Apr 2014

605

Because it's just a bog standard locked room mystery in a fantasy setting where the "deductions" are basic common sense and the characters are all flaky idiots. Just because you make an explanation sound complicated doesn't mean that the deduction was complicated. Let alone how easily Chamot was defeated, the art and animation derps and all the rest of it and it's hardly an anime to remember for all time.

Aug 31, 2015 5:38 AM

#134

Offline

Aug 2015

193

GrumpyWolf said:

flannan said:

Basically, your impressions of the show are diametrically opposed to ours. That makes us think that your criticism is not a legitimate one.
Also, you resort to personal attacks on everybody who disagrees with you. That's uncool, because forums are for discussion, and disagreement is the fuel of discussion.

By the way, your word definitions suck.

That makes the word so vague it is meaningless. Of course people are going to get bothered, otherwise they won't write anything. Did you get butthurt to write your initial post in this discussion at all?

So my opinion is opposed to yours so you think its not legitimate? Thats the definition of MAL right there. Read what I write pls.
Personal attacks? See Kolios post. Thats a personal attack.
It is for discussion but I fail to see that when someone says "So much bs in one post, a bit hard to believe it's a legit one." or make posts like Kolios did. And one thing is to disagree another is to make up stuff I did not say.
"By the way, your word definitions suck." Another personal attack. And thats coming from a person that just wrote "Also, you resort to personal attacks on everybody who disagrees with you. That's uncool, because forums are for discussion, and disagreement is the fuel of discussion."

You are saying people need to be bothered to write stuff. I fail to see how that leads to a healthy discussion. Its not normal to get bothered by someones else opinion/post. You can disagree but to actually feel offended by it....

This is the classic MAL case study of Chinese Whispers, people are just cherry-picking information from comments that don't align with what they said, and follow up by ignoring the noteworthy points. Let me be clear, I accept your opinion wholeheartedly and I don't agree with other people insulting you for what you believe; ad hominems only aggravate the disagreement.

However, I think what Kolios, flannan, and robis798 are correct about is the fact that your reasoning behind your opinion is extremely poor. Opinions cannot be attacked, but flimsy reasoning can be exposed and rightly so.

Aug 31, 2015 5:51 AM

#135

HandsomeMan

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Nov 2013

2305

From what I see, this show is a "you either love it or hate it" type of show.

Aug 31, 2015 5:59 AM

#136

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Aug 2015

193

HandsomeMan said:
From what I see, this show is a "you either love it or hate it" type of show.

^Great description. Similar to the Monogatari series in terms of its appeal.

Aug 31, 2015 6:03 AM

#137

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Nov 2009

8716

GrumpyWolf said:
You are saying people need to be bothered to write stuff. I fail to see how that leads to a healthy discussion. Its not normal to get bothered by someones else opinion/post. You can disagree but to actually feel offended by it....

I guess we're simply using different versions of English.
To me, "be bothered" and "be offended" are totally different things. And the rest of the definitions of "butthurt" are different things too, except for "buggered", I have no idea what it means.
Anyway, being bothered, annoyed or even offended by other people's posts is normal for us humans, and not a reason to terminate the discussion.

GrumpyWolf said:

So my opinion is opposed to yours so you think its not legitimate? Thats the definition of MAL right there. Read what I write pls.

Yes, it is a good enough reason to assume you're trolling (that is, faking your opinion to get a reaction out of other people). I try to assume that other people are serious about what they write, but detecting trolls, sarcasm and general attempts at manipulation is hard.

Aug 31, 2015 6:19 AM

#138

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Aug 2010

252

Frrrosty said:
This is the classic MAL case study of Chinese Whispers, people are just cherry-picking information from comments that don't align with what they said, and follow up by ignoring the noteworthy points. Let me be clear, I accept your opinion wholeheartedly and I don't agree with other people insulting you for what you believe; ad hominems only aggravate the disagreement.

However, I think what Kolios, flannan, and robis798 are correct about is the fact that your reasoning behind your opinion is extremely poor. Opinions cannot be attacked, but flimsy reasoning can be exposed and rightly so.

Yet nobody presents other reasonings. Robis is the only one but he misinterpreted everything and I disagree with him about the the show not being about the characters. The show up until this point is a slow paced, heavy dialogue and character interactions focused. We have 2 characters that are well explored but the rest is left to superficial character traits. Why is Goldof so silent, emotionless and so focused on Nashetania? Why is Chamo a psycopath and why does she react the way she does? Why is Hans so happy talkative when he is an assassin? Why is Mora so serious and acts as the voice of reason? How about we cut the slow paced dialogue and show why these characters are the way they are? And why they react the way they do the other characters and situations.
Again, we have no background story about the demons and the war. Whats their motivation and origin? Why would I care about the fake if I dont have enough information about the demons that he works for? Yes it will be revealed his motivation but nothing yet. Why would I care about the fake if people are saying I shouldnt care about the characters?
The show doesnt give you enough reasons to care about whats happening. Not the characters and not the background story.

Aug 31, 2015 6:27 AM

#139

Offline

Aug 2010

252

flannan said:

GrumpyWolf said:
You are saying people need to be bothered to write stuff. I fail to see how that leads to a healthy discussion. Its not normal to get bothered by someones else opinion/post. You can disagree but to actually feel offended by it....

I guess we're simply using different versions of English.
To me, "be bothered" and "be offended" are totally different things. And the rest of the definitions of "butthurt" are different things too, except for "buggered", I have no idea what it means.
Anyway, being bothered, annoyed or even offended by other people's posts is normal for us humans, and not a reason to terminate the discussion.

GrumpyWolf said:

So my opinion is opposed to yours so you think its not legitimate? Thats the definition of MAL right there. Read what I write pls.

Yes, it is a good enough reason to assume you're trolling (that is, faking your opinion to get a reaction out of other people). I try to assume that other people are serious about what they write, but detecting trolls, sarcasm and general attempts at manipulation is hard.

This is a waste of time.... Anyway, MAL being what it is.

Aug 31, 2015 6:30 AM

#140

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

GrumpyWolf said:
Its not a good enough show?
Its super slow paced and has tons of dialogue. The mystery is not engaging enough imo. Thats because you dont know all the characters background, which makes it hard to get attached to any character consequently making the viewer dont care about who the traitor is.

Okay, this anime has one of the most quirky and memorable casts. We know enough background about Adlet, Nashetania, Chamo and Fremy to get attached. Should I re-tell you?
Well, actually I got attached to Fremy as soon as I read her introduction in the novels, far before I knew she was half-kyouma, assassin, out for revenge or anything else, so it is not like it matters at all. And it wasn't for her barely-covered breasts!

GrumpyWolf said:

You also have all this nonsense with the barrier that is going on for so many episodes now. Its really hard to keep track of what the characters are saying about the barrier when you watch this show once a week and its been focused for most of the show.

That's what the forums are for. And you can always re-watch the previous episodes when you want to remember something - there is no need to actually remember everything.

GrumpyWolf said:

To add all that, you have a generic story (more like background) about demons wanting to destroy the world. Theres is nothing interesting about them, we have no information or motivation. Why should I care about the traitor? Working for the generic demons, wow fascinating....

Actually, demons being well-organized and suicidally loyal is something quite new and interesting. Also, kyouma being exaggerated biological creatures rather than some kind of supernatural creature that can only be fought with magic is very good too. And their hate being focused exclusively on humans hints there is something interesting to look forward to in the end.
But overall - a story like this just needs a clear enemy, so that we can concentrate on solving the mystery, not on the moral implications of slaying so many potentially-intelligent creatures.

Aug 31, 2015 7:18 AM

#141

Offline

Aug 2015

193

GrumpyWolf said:

Frrrosty said:
This is the classic MAL case study of Chinese Whispers, people are just cherry-picking information from comments that don't align with what they said, and follow up by ignoring the noteworthy points. Let me be clear, I accept your opinion wholeheartedly and I don't agree with other people insulting you for what you believe; ad hominems only aggravate the disagreement.

However, I think what Kolios, flannan, and robis798 are correct about is the fact that your reasoning behind your opinion is extremely poor. Opinions cannot be attacked, but flimsy reasoning can be exposed and rightly so.

Yet nobody presents other reasonings. Robis is the only one but he misinterpreted everything and I disagree with him about the the show not being about the characters. The show up until this point is a slow paced, heavy dialogue and character interactions focused. We have 2 characters that are well explored but the rest is left to superficial character traits. Why is Goldof so silent, emotionless and so focused on Nashetania? Why is Chamo a psycopath and why does she react the way she does? Why is Hans so happy talkative when he is an assassin? Why is Mora so serious and acts as the voice of reason? How about we cut the slow paced dialogue and show why these characters are the way they are? And why they react the way they do the other characters and situations.
Again, we have no background story about the demons and the war. Whats their motivation and origin? Why would I care about the fake if I dont have enough information about the demons that he works for? Yes it will be revealed his motivation but nothing yet. Why would I care about the fake if people are saying I shouldnt care about the characters?
The show doesnt give you enough reasons to care about whats happening. Not the characters and not the background story.

You're saying this like the show has finished. Now that we are talking analysis, I'll give you mine. Firstly, you think that exploration of backstory of every single character is relevant at this premature stage in the story because you attribute this to 'caring' for the characters and their situation. There are two responses to this.

1. This is a mystery story - what's motivating you to watch may not be the characters at this moment, but it is solving questions posed like who's the fake,why and how they did it. Also, revealing complete backstory would simply remove the mystery elements, that's why the show has left incomplete backstories for every character (yes even Adlet and Fremy) to increase the intrigue.

2. Caring for characters is subjective in and of itself. This is why the reasoning is flimsy, because you're basing it on preconceived notions of how character development SHOULD be. If episodes of flashback and talking about people's life stories is the only way to develop and, by extension, care for characters then I would never have been interested in literature or anime in the first place.

There are at least 3 other ways you can develop and learn about a character: personality, actions, and interactions with other characters. Rokka puts these methods at the forefront of its development and is clever in how it executes them by placing the characters in a high stakes environment, forcing said characters to adapt to the situation.

That's enough out of me for this thread, from now on you can say what you want about how 'poorly-written' Rokka is (not directed to you specifically).
However, this is my last caveat to anyone intending bash the series whilst feigning to know how you actually write a good narrative.

Aug 31, 2015 8:12 AM

#142

Offline

Aug 2010

252

Frrrosty said:
You're saying this like the show has finished. Now that we are talking analysis, I'll give you mine. Firstly, you think that exploration of backstory of every single character is relevant at this premature stage in the story because you attribute this to 'caring' for the characters and their situation. There are two responses to this.

1. This is a mystery story - what's motivating you to watch may not be the characters at this moment, but it is solving questions posed like who's the fake,why and how they did it. Also, revealing complete backstory would simply remove the mystery elements, that's why the show has left incomplete backstories for every character (yes even Adlet and Fremy) to increase the intrigue.

2. Caring for characters is subjective in and of itself. This is why the reasoning is flimsy, because you're basing it on preconceived notions of how character development SHOULD be. If episodes of flashback and talking about people's life stories is the only way to develop and, by extension, care for characters then I would never have been interested in literature or anime in the first place.

There are at least 3 other ways you can develop and learn about a character: personality, actions, and interactions with other characters. Rokka puts these methods at the forefront of its development and is clever in how it executes them by placing the characters in a high stakes environment, forcing said characters to adapt to the situation.

That's enough out of me for this thread, from now on you can say what you want about how 'poorly-written' Rokka is (not directed to you specifically).
However, this is my last caveat to anyone intending bash the series whilst feigning to know how you actually write a good narrative.

Ok at least a honest, non agressive response.
Of course my opinion is based on whats happened until this point. Isnt this thread about why isnt rated higher at this point?
Premature stage? 9 episodes in 12. To add that, only yesterday I learned that the show wouldnt have an end. I was thinking about that, seeing how the show was progressing. Im giving my opinion on the RnY anime up to the 9th episode.
U know whats your guys problems? Your preknowledge of the story by reading the LN. You guys are using knowledge I dont have.
Im not asking for complete backstory on all characters, I want something similar to what they did with 2 characters. I dont think its the smart choice to pretty much roll out 2 characters out of the mystery because of the exposition they had and not the do the same with the other characters, so everyone is equally suspect.
Yes you are right its not all about backstory, but again you have exposition on 2 characters and the rest is just there. Theres a reason why Adlet and Flemy act the way they do because we got that exposition. For Chamot, for example, she acts illogical and wants to murder everyone and is confident enough she can defeat the demon king alone. Why?
So I disagree when u say its clever in its execution.
Again its my opinion, its not a review or anything similar. If I feel that in this type of story I need to care about the characters to keep me interested in the mystery and conflicts than thats it. If I wanted to critique or review this show objectively I certainly wouldnt use the forum. Nor do I want to.

ok000Aug 31, 2015 8:26 AM

Aug 31, 2015 8:30 AM

#143

Offline

May 2013

272

Imeon said:
Because it's supposed to be an "adventure story and not a "detective story".

Who are you? The author?

idungoof said:
Because it's just a bog standard locked room mystery in a fantasy setting where the "deductions" are basic common sense and the characters are all flaky idiots. Just because you make an explanation sound complicated doesn't mean that the deduction was complicated. Let alone how easily Chamot was defeated, the art and animation derps and all the rest of it and it's hardly an anime to remember for all time.

I want to ask you to tell how the fog was created, but you could easily look that shit up.

UgokiAug 31, 2015 8:37 AM

Aug 31, 2015 12:17 PM

#144

Crimson_V

Offline

Oct 2010

335

GrumpyWolf said:

Frrrosty said:
This is the classic MAL case study of Chinese Whispers, people are just cherry-picking information from comments that don't align with what they said, and follow up by ignoring the noteworthy points. Let me be clear, I accept your opinion wholeheartedly and I don't agree with other people insulting you for what you believe; ad hominems only aggravate the disagreement.

However, I think what Kolios, flannan, and robis798 are correct about is the fact that your reasoning behind your opinion is extremely poor. Opinions cannot be attacked, but flimsy reasoning can be exposed and rightly so.

Yet nobody presents other reasonings. Robis is the only one but he misinterpreted everything and I disagree with him about the the show not being about the characters. The show up until this point is a slow paced, heavy dialogue and character interactions focused. We have 2 characters that are well explored but the rest is left to superficial character traits. Why is Goldof so silent, emotionless and so focused on Nashetania? Why is Chamo a psycopath and why does she react the way she does? Why is Hans so happy talkative when he is an assassin? Why is Mora so serious and acts as the voice of reason? How about we cut the slow paced dialogue and show why these characters are the way they are? And why they react the way they do the other characters and situations.
Again, we have no background story about the demons and the war. Whats their motivation and origin? Why would I care about the fake if I dont have enough information about the demons that he works for? Yes it will be revealed his motivation but nothing yet. Why would I care about the fake if people are saying I shouldnt care about the characters?
The show doesnt give you enough reasons to care about whats happening. Not the characters and not the background story.

Mystery animes are about mysteries, character backstories are rarely brought up unless they are relevant to the plot.
Is this your introduction to this genre?

Aug 31, 2015 1:04 PM

#145

Zefyris

Offline

Apr 2013

7960

Crimson_V said:

Mystery animes are about mysteries, character backstories are rarely brought up unless they are relevant to the plot.
Is this your introduction to this genre?

Peoples watching anime don't know what are the usual rules a detective story follows so can't be helped. Anime usually don't follow them and even in the "mystery" type of anime, we usually get stories that trample over important rules all the time.
For once they're in front of a story going the "classic" way for a detective story, which seems to be confusing for a lot of peoples around here.

Aug 31, 2015 1:26 PM

#146

CaringPragmatist

Offline

Aug 2015

4

I just want to say something in regards to those complaining about others...complaining about the show not living up to their expectations.

Yes the synopsis pretty much broke down the main plot of the show, but not everyone reads it, and to those who just decided to check it out well they were treated to early episodes filled with nothing but action and if anything promising an adrenaline packed fantasy romp. What they got was a closed room mystery in a fantasy setting. I can see why they are upset.

I personally enjoy the show...or did so before the bloody pacing became comparable to the pace of a snail. I've read the novel and can see a lot of scenes that could have been handled more quickly to move the story along. Sometimes sticking to the source material far too much can hurt a show, which in my opinion is the case here.

Aug 31, 2015 1:53 PM

#147