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Damn Kiritsugu hasn't slept for 40 hours? I feel like crap when staying up for 24 hours. And this guy is going to be sniping and running all around - geez - soldiers.
TiamatNM said: I feel like nothing has been happening in this show, lol. every week I'm thinking "is there actually gonna be a fight next week?"
fights ≠ story progress
I like them actions scenes too (DAT ANIMATION) but that's not what FZ about.
Also FT doesn't have fight after fight after fight but when the time comes and epic stuff happens it always delivers.
Yusa-pyan said: damnit... i reallly really really wanna find out what happens next... i ship GILGAMESHXXSABER FTW!!!
That pairing never made sense to me. Gil should go for Saber-Nero instead.
And Saber x Irisviel is one big reason why Saber is so much better here than in FSN.
Naw...Kinpika and Saber Alter is the true pairing other than with Kirei.
Saber Nero and Gilgamesh together would make their egos multiply and destroy the universe.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
TiamatNM said: I feel like nothing has been happening in this show, lol. every week I'm thinking "is there actually gonna be a fight next week?"
fights ≠ story progress
I like them actions scenes too (DAT ANIMATION) but that's not what FZ about.
Also FT doesn't have fight after fight after fight but when the time comes and epic stuff happens it always delivers.
Yusa-pyan said: damnit... i reallly really really wanna find out what happens next... i ship GILGAMESHXXSABER FTW!!!
That pairing never made sense to me. Gil should go for Saber-Nero instead.
And Saber x Irisviel is one big reason why Saber is so much better here than in FSN.
Naw...Kinpika and Saber Alter is the true pairing other than with Kirei.
Saber Nero and Gilgamesh together would make their egos multiply and destroy the universe.
Saber maid Alter would have him all whipped ;; do not want
Kurogashi said: Damn Kiritsugu hasn't slept for 40 hours? I feel like crap when staying up for 24 hours. And this guy is going to be sniping and running all around - geez - soldiers.
That is nothing to what he did before. When the war began, he hasn't slept for 70+ hours. He only took a 2 hour break on that part after the Grail dialogue, the part where he was eating a burger and assessing the situation of the war. He is using amphetamines to keep himself alert and awake and used self hypnosis to rest.
Yusa-pyan said: damnit... i reallly really really wanna find out what happens next... i ship GILGAMESHXXSABER FTW!!!
...Not shipping Irisviel X Saber
...Not shipping Gilgamesh X Kirei
What are you doing?
FFF. EnkiduxGilgamesh > All.
But I ship everything, so... Gil harem:
Just imagine Nero or whoever is taking the picture. Everyone happy.
Speaking of the episode, I feel there were crucial cuts in the Irisviel-Kirei scene to understand the mindset and anger from Kotomine. Kiritsugu was throwing away his wife's life as disposable which made him really really really ANGRY. Those who know his backstory of his wife committed suicide for him would understand of why. Below the cut is the novel scene:
“I don’t understand. You’re nothing but a doll that carries the Holy Grail. The completion of the ceremony should be your only concern, rather than who may win the war. Why are you so bent on certain Masters in your current condition?”
“Yes, how could you possibly understand?... You’re the kind of person who doesn’t even have a wish to bestow upon the Holy Grail.”
The loathing mockery made Kirei even more baffled – was this woman really just a homunculus? Why did a homunculus, which didn’t even have a soul, possess such emotions?
“Kotomine Kirei… you’re an empty man who doesn’t even understand the meaning of battle. You’ll never win against that man… Be prepared; my knight, my husband will surely destroy you…”
“… Why are you talking about me?”
What made Kirei more baffled was the content of her words. How could this homunculus look into his heart with such accuracy? Tokiomi could not do that, nor could his own father or wife.
“Hah, scared? Fine, I’ll tell you… Emiya Kiritsugu has seen through you. He is alarmed by you and therefore regards you as the greatest enemy … Kiritsugu will fall upon you in a way more cruel and merciless than anyone else. Be prepared…”
So that was why – Kirei nodded with satisfaction.
If it was that man – if those who could understand Kirei truly existed – then that man must be the same kind of person as Kirei.
Emiya Kiritsugu did not let him down. Though the two of them had never met, he had nevertheless made the most appropriate evaluation of Kotomine Kirei.
“Thank you, woman. That is a blessing for me. The man Emiya Kiritsugu is truly just as I had imagined.”
However, a bout of mocking laughter answered Kirei.
“… You’re such a foolish man. You’re saying you understand Emiya Kiritsugu? … Hmph, don’t make me laugh. You aren’t even up to his heel in worth.”
“– What did you say?”
The sudden sound made his entire body shiver. He could not forget that sentence.
“True… Emiya Kiritsugu can see through you, but you’ll never see through him… Kotomine Kirei, you don’t have any of the things that man has in his soul.”
Kirei grasped her slender neck before more mocking words could flow out of her throat. The rage and confusion swirling within Kirei’s heart at that moment was incomparable to what he had felt back in the Einsbern Forest even if the fatal battle there was to be repeated.
“… I admit it. True, I’m an empty man. I have nothing.”
His roaring seemed to be calm at the beginning, or maybe traces of agitation only surfaced later on.
“But what’s the difference between Kiritsugu and me? Between me and that man who only devoted himself to senseless war – a man who never got anything out of it but only repeated his slaughter?! He departed so much from common sense and he got absolutely nothing. What is he, if not a lost soul!?!”
Kirei rebuked her desperately and hoarsely.
His inquiry was like the angry roar of an anguished soul that could not obtain the answer it sought even after having experienced every kind of trial imaginable.
“Homunculus, answer me if you can. Why does Emiya Kiritsugu seek the Holy Grail? What is the wish that man bestowed upon the all-powerful wish-granting vessel!?!”
As if provoking her, Kirei loosened his hands, which were grasped around the homunculus’s neck, and permitted her to breathe so she could answer him. There was an unspoken warning that if he received a vague answer, he would end her breathing forever.
Even so, this woman did not express even a sliver of terror. Kneeling before Kirei’s knees, she weakly gasped for oxygen in such a pitiful manner. But the look that she gave Kirei still contained the derision and superiority reserved for the victor.
It was almost as if Kirei was the one kneeling.
“Alright, I’ll tell you – Emiya Kiritsugu’s lasting hope is to save humanity. It is to end all wars and bloodshed and achieve eternal world peace.”
That only seemed like jestful nonsense for Kirei. After a few seconds, he burst out laughing.
“– What was that?”
“You can’t understand it. That is the difference between you and him. You believe in nothing while he does.”
Was this woman really talking about the man Emiya Kiritsugu? Kirei had doubts. What kind of man did Emiya Kiritsugu pretend to be while in front of this woman?
“… Woman, what are you to Emiya Kiritsugu?”
“I gave birth to his child as his wife. I’ve looked into his heart and shared his worries for the past nine years… unlike you, who has never seen him.”
Nine years. Perhaps he had passed such a long time in a lie? Kirei had such doubts, but he instinctively felt it would be impossible. What existed in this woman’s heart was undoubtedly her trust toward Emiya Kiritsugu. It would be unimaginable to form such a strong personality within her if she based it on an empty lie. This woman was originally only an ordinary homunculus after all.
The focus of his anger began to shift away from this woman before her. Kirei gave out a melancholic sigh and sat down onto the chair next to him.
“Irisviel von Einsbern, were you always a good wife in those nine years? Did you win Emiya Kiritsugu’s love?”
“… Why do you care?”
“I don’t understand the bond between you two – you took pride in having Emiya Kiritsugu as your husband and trust him as if you’re a real couple. However, if Emiya Kiritsugu is a man who seeks the Holy Grail, you should have been just a tool with which to fulfill his wish. He has no reason to give you something as unnecessary as love.”
“… I won’t forgive you if you laugh at him for being stupid.”
Those were the decisive words spoken by one who had something that could not be violated.
“… I have no parents, and I’m not a product of love. Therefore, I can’t understand what a ‘good wife’ is. Even so… the love he gave me is my entire world. No one can humiliate that.”
“Then, Irisviel, you’re a perfect wife.”
Kirei said as if making a disinterested judgement. It was not praise, nor was it sarcasm.
“But I can’t understand Emiya Kiritsugu because of that. Since he loves you as a wife, then why… why would he want eternal world peace? Why would he sacrifice his loved one for such a pointless aspiration?”
“… Such an odd question. For you, a man who has admitted that he has no reason for existence… You’re mocking others and saying their aspirations are meaningless?”
“Any sensible adult would have laughed at him.”
This was an anger completely different from before. Kirei’s heart swelled up.
“Combat is instinctive of humanity. Eliminating it is no different from eliminating humans. What else could be more pointless? This so-called aspiration of Emiya Kiritsugu’s – it shouldn’t have been called an aspiration to begin with, but the dream of a child!”
“… That is why he could only rely on a miracle…”
Irisviel tried her best to keep her cool and continued speaking.
“He lost everything for the aspiration he sought… He always suffered through his punishments for wanting to save those that could not be saved, and everything around him was robbed… I am also someone taken away from him. He has been forced to discard his loved ones many times…”
Kirei stood up from his chair and gazed at Irisviel with a bottomless and gloomy look.
“You’re saying it’s not just limited to this once – but that this is the way of existence for this man?”
“Yes. Kiritsugu is far too gentle. He doesn’t hold back on his love even though he knows he will lose those around him sooner or later…”
Those answers were enough for Kirei. He completely lost interest in the homunculus before him.
“… I understand.”
He grasped the woman’s neck with his strong fingertips and stopped her blood flow.
Looking at the other’s weak and painful expression, Kirei calmly said.
“I finally understand. So this is Emiya Kiritsugu.”
Kirei threw the woman, who had already fainted, to one side, and gazed emptily into the darkness.
In retrospect, Kirei had been wrong since the start– his question was answered, but his anticipation became disappointment.
Emiya Kiritsugu was not looking for the truth amongst meaningless repetition.
That man had simply consigned all meaningful things into nothingness.
It wasn’t that he had no wishes, but that he had such a ridiculous wish that he fell into a cycle of nothingness. His futile efforts and what he had wasted was so foolish that it was unsalvageable.
Perhaps Kiritsugu could see through Kotomine Kirei’s empty heart, and perhaps he would fear that emptiness and be alarmed. However, he would never be able to imagine the meaning of having such an emptiness. He could never hope to understand the fervent desire that Kirei harbored.
Emiya Kiritsugu’s life could be concluded as having repeatedly discarded everything.
The joy and happiness that man had discarded – even its fragments were important enough in Kirei’s eyes for him to protect with his life or even die for.
For a man like Kirei who continued to be lost and could not find a single piece of such joy and happiness, Kiritsugu’s life only existed in his dreams and his admiration.
His insatiable thirst and unrecoverable loss had been belittled and mocked in such a way – how could he endure this? How could he not hate this?
The dark feelings swelling up in his heart twisted Kirei’s smile.
He finally understood the meaning of this war.
He had absolutely no interest in the Holy Grail. It did not matter if he had no thoughts of fulfilling a wish.
But if he could break the dreams of this man, who had gambled everything upon this miracle, with his own hands – then even the Holy Grail, which was completely meaningless to him, had a use in being obtained.
The excitement of approaching battle made Kirei’s hands tremor. The rising desire of battle burned in his heart, as if he were about to take out his Black Keys right then and pierce through everything in front of him.
In the darkness muddied by the stench of blood, Kotomine Kirei laughed out loud. It was something that had never ceased in all these long years - the throbbing of his soul.
Thess said: Speaking of the episode, I feel there were crucial cuts in the Irisviel-Kirei scene to understand the mindset and anger from Kotomine. Kiritsugu was throwing away his wife's life as disposable which made him really really really ANGRY. Those who know his backstory of his wife committed suicide for him would understand of why.
The anime already does a good job at getting the main point across with Kirei's actions and the modified dialogue. Kirei's characterization in the anime is directed in such a way that his expressions and his usage of particular dialogue expresses how he feels, but it's never directly said outright like in the novelization. It leaves it up to the viewer to interpret it.
Kurogashi said: Damn Kiritsugu hasn't slept for 40 hours? I feel like crap when staying up for 24 hours. And this guy is going to be sniping and running all around - geez - soldiers.
That is nothing to what he did before. When the war began, he hasn't slept for 70+ hours. He only took a 2 hour break on that part after the Grail dialogue, the part where he was eating a burger and assessing the situation of the war. He is using amphetamines to keep himself alert and awake and used self hypnosis to rest.
Does this not place a burden that shortens one's life span itself. Seems like he dies xtimes faster like this.
- BLOG- My Club- Easiest way to reach the rest of my thoughts!
All i gotta say is amazing..... The rest of the show that is left will be nothing but great. And for people who have not read the light novels you will be blow away in more way then one (pun intended)
It was clear that Irisviel would die at some point but didn't expect her to be strangled like that while she was dying anyway.
Looks like the action is gonna start now wonder how things will turn out now.
Awesome episode, it was sad to see Iri get killed by that piece of shit.
It's getting better every episode, I can't wait for the next episode because I think it'll have some great battle.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
Don't hate him, bruv/dove. He's just finally accepted his murderous, sadistic and hateful side. I say good for him. Watching him will now be x100s more enjoyable.
Its too bad that I already know the outcome of the next fight. Though I'm kinda wondering how Alexander would fare against Gil if he was at full power since he didn't have his Gordius Wheel and only had enough power to use Ionian Hatairoi once.
Xayoz said: 'Conflict is humanity's primal instinct. Eliminating it would mean eliminating humanity itself.'
Couldn't agree more, Kirei.
Great ep. Can't wait for the conclusion.
Funny enough Kirei hits the nail on the head too. If Kiritsugu makes the wish he would "kill" humanity.
yes but according to who's definition?
It's highly subjective.
He means according to the grail.
Doesnt that kinda
spoil what will happen in the end?For some people at least
Even if the grail was not
corrupt
How do you expect
one trillion units of prana
to stop bloodshed on earth other than either brainwashing humans into mindless drones without the psychological capability to compete? Or just outright killing anyone with hostile intentions?
Pretty much every choice leads to the destruction of humanity because bloodshed on earth cannot be erased by any other method.
Kiritsugu was lucky that
Alaya
didn't send over a bunch of
counter guardians
to kick his ass before he
abandoned his retarded dream
Its too bad that I already know the outcome of the next fight. Though I'm kinda wondering how Alexander would fare against Gil if he was at full power since he didn't have his Gordius Wheel and only had enough power to use Ionian Hatairoi once.
I'm pretty sure those 3 command spells waver used on him gave him a ton of prana to use.
Gordius wheel won't make much of a difference when Gil's got his waifu weapon.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
And my love for Kirei grows even more. I love him, now officially. Damn that FSN VN, it's really no fun knowing what is what and how things will unfold in the end xD
Still, can't wait to see the end. But even with all that, I still can't make myself give this show more than 8.
Xayoz said: 'Conflict is humanity's primal instinct. Eliminating it would mean eliminating humanity itself.'
Couldn't agree more, Kirei.
Great ep. Can't wait for the conclusion.
Funny enough Kirei hits the nail on the head too. If Kiritsugu makes the wish he would "kill" humanity.
yes but according to who's definition?
It's highly subjective.
He means according to the grail.
Doesnt that kinda
spoil what will happen in the end?For some people at least
Even if the grail was not
corrupt
How do you expect
one trillion units of prana
to stop bloodshed on earth other than either brainwashing humans into mindless drones without the psychological capability to compete? Or just outright killing anyone with hostile intentions?
Pretty much every choice leads to the destruction of humanity because bloodshed on earth cannot be erased by any other method.
Kiritsugu was lucky that
Alaya
didn't send over a bunch of
counter guardians
to kick his ass before he
abandoned his retarded dream
Its too bad that I already know the outcome of the next fight. Though I'm kinda wondering how Alexander would fare against Gil if he was at full power since he didn't have his Gordius Wheel and only had enough power to use Ionian Hatairoi once.
I'm pretty sure those 3 command spells waver used on him gave him a ton of prana to use.
Gordius wheel won't make much of a difference when Gil's got his waifu weapon.
I am not saying that humankind has any chances to avoid conflicts without becoming mindless robots but sure can avoid total destruction.I mean that was the whole point of his wish
everyone to be happy (Shirou?)etc.How would anyone be happy if they were dead?There is also the manipulation of will.The moment someone had "bad intentions" or would create something that would bring destruction(unintentionally) the effect of the wish would change that.Whether its good to have almost no free will or not is another story but it's better than total annihilation .So I wanna believe that his wish would have come true if the grail wasnt tainted
spoil what will happen in the end?For some people at least
As Blood Requiem says, the end of all conflict is just a childish dream that really doesn't have that many "good" ways to happen (and even the good ways might seem like turning people into mindless drones in the end). It reminds me of the premise behind Death Note.
Anyway nah, it doesn't spoils much considering...
...In the end the one who makes the wish that destroys half of Fuyuki was Kirei. Even if he tried to spin his words to make Shirou think it was Kiri's fault.
spoil what will happen in the end?For some people at least
As Blood Requiem says, the end of all conflict is just a childish dream that really doesn't have that many "good" ways to happen (and even the good ways might seem like turning people into mindless drones in the end). It reminds me of the premise behind Death Note.
Anyway nah, it doesn't spoils much considering...
...In the end the one who makes the dream to destroy half of Fuyuki was Kirei.
Yeah but
I was talking about the dream Kiritsugu saw.Anime only viewers probably dont think that will happen .
As for the childish dream,yeah,the LN almost starts with those words too.
His dream is impossible. It's pure, but it's childish because it can't happen. At all. It would lead to mandkind's extinction, directly or indirectly. Kiritsugu is as 'good' as Light Yagami. He doesn't realize he's a megalomaniac entitled person who thinks he can choose for all humanity what's right and wrong.
Any sensible adult knows this. Kiritsugu is unable to emotionally mature because he has an unhealthy attachment to his dream. It's probably due to his post traumatic stress and guilt of his childhood backstory trauma.
Likewise, Saber's wish is as dangerous as Kiritsugu's. They are two stupidly idealistic who can't realize of the consequences for now.
If you want to see who in Fate/Zero seems to have a selfless harmless wish? Look no further, it's Team Caster.
Thess said: His dream is impossible. It's pure, but it's childish because it can't happen. At all. It would lead to mandkind's extinction, directly or indirectly. Kiritsugu is as 'good' as Light Yagami. He doesn't realize he's a megalomaniac entitled person who thinks he can choose for all humanity what's right and wrong.
Any sensible adult knows this. Kiritsugu is unable to emotionally mature because he has an unhealthy attachment to his dream. It's probably due to his post traumatic stress and guilt of his childhood backstory trauma.
Likewise, Saber's wish is as dangerous as Kiritsugu's. They are two stupidly idealistic who can't realize of the consequences for now.
If you want to see who in Fate/Zero seems to have a selfless harmless wish? Look no further, it's Team Caster.
Thess said: His dream is impossible. It's pure, but it's childish because it can't happen. At all. It would lead to mandkind's extinction, directly or indirectly. Kiritsugu is as 'good' as Light Yagami. He doesn't realize he's a megalomaniac entitled person who thinks he can choose for all humanity what's right and wrong.
Any sensible adult knows this. Kiritsugu is unable to emotionally mature because he has an unhealthy attachment to his dream. It's probably due to his post traumatic stress and guilt of his childhood backstory trauma.
Likewise, Saber's wish is as dangerous as Kiritsugu's. They are two stupidly idealistic who can't realize of the consequences for now.
If you want to see who in Fate/Zero seems to have a selfless harmless wish? Look no further, it's Team Caster.
harmless?
Well Gilles just wanted to see Jeanne again and Ryuunosuke wanted to see his own guts...
Funny how they both get their wish.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
Thess said: His dream is impossible. It's pure, but it's childish because it can't happen. At all. It would lead to mandkind's extinction, directly or indirectly. Kiritsugu is as 'good' as Light Yagami. He doesn't realize he's a megalomaniac entitled person who thinks he can choose for all humanity what's right and wrong.
Any sensible adult knows this. Kiritsugu is unable to emotionally mature because he has an unhealthy attachment to his dream. It's probably due to his post traumatic stress and guilt of his childhood backstory trauma.
Likewise, Saber's wish is as dangerous as Kiritsugu's. They are two stupidly idealistic who can't realize of the consequences for now.
If you want to see who in Fate/Zero seems to have a selfless harmless wish? Look no further, it's Team Caster.
harmless?
Well Gilles just wanted to see Jeanne again and Ryuunosuke wanted to see his own guts...
Funny how they both get their wish.
yeah lets forget what they did till they got their wish.
Thess said: His dream is impossible. It's pure, but it's childish because it can't happen. At all. It would lead to mandkind's extinction, directly or indirectly. Kiritsugu is as 'good' as Light Yagami. He doesn't realize he's a megalomaniac entitled person who thinks he can choose for all humanity what's right and wrong.
Any sensible adult knows this. Kiritsugu is unable to emotionally mature because he has an unhealthy attachment to his dream. It's probably due to his post traumatic stress and guilt of his childhood backstory trauma.
Likewise, Saber's wish is as dangerous as Kiritsugu's. They are two stupidly idealistic who can't realize of the consequences for now.
If you want to see who in Fate/Zero seems to have a selfless harmless wish? Look no further, it's Team Caster.
harmless?
Well Gilles just wanted to see Jeanne again and Ryuunosuke wanted to see his own guts...
Funny how they both get their wish.
yeah lets forget what they did till they got their wish.
Thats true.
Which is why it's ironic that the "bad guys" get the good end.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
I despise Kirei. Iri was going to die sooner or later but she ended up being choked by him. That was really shocking.
Waver and Rider's interations made me smile. As well as Waver's talk with "grandfather". He's really a nice old man. ^^
PerlaNemesis said: I despise Kirei. Iri was going to die sooner or later but she ended up being choked by him. That was really shocking.
Waver and Rider's interations made me smile. As well as Waver's talk with "grandfather". He's really a nice old man. ^^
It was a quick painless death.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.