| Yeah, I know it might sound dumb at first look but hear me out. There's a lot of stuff that goes into making an anime and while the studio and staff is certainly a very important part. It's not the largest deciding factor on whether or not an adaption flops or is good. An example is the extremely increasing problem seen more recently even in adaptions that haven't flopped and that is production issues/production hell. Last crusade completely stopped airing after episode 5 and is being remade due to production being that bad. That one yuri anime from spring 2024 season is STILL delayed and hasn't finished all it's episodes. Train to the end of the world was a solid production and an anime original. However staff from the project posted that production was getting rough near the last 2-3 episodes with them barely finishing a couple days before airing. In that case only the last episode was delayed by 1 week and animation was still solid. However it goes to show that management problems are becoming one of the biggest factors killing adaptions right now and there's many studio's struggling with it. I don't know much about turtleme as a person or a creator, but he put things on hiatus for months to resolve the production problems and art quality for his fans. So given his clear intent to provide his fans with a quality story and him taking a position at the studio supervising the project it seems like he wants a good adaption for his story and is personally seeing that it meets his standard. Studio A-CAT's reputation might be mediocre (at best) but I hope turtleme will do a good job making sure this adaption meets a good standard. Besides the teaser they released while it's short and doesn't show that much of what we'll actually be getting didn't look half bad animation wise and the art looked pretty accurate to the comic/manga art. So while yes Studio A-CAT definitely isn't the best choice for a quality adaption they won't necessarily be what ruins it or makes it a bad watch. That's just my opinion though specifically from my general project production based knowledge with somewhat limited knowledge of the anime industry's workings. I'm interested in hearing anyone else's opinions and maybe someone else has better knowledge of the anime industry or has worked in it and knows better. |
MewsicMagicOct 26, 2024 4:38 PM
Reply to elijahonline
I think people are also overlooking the last show studio A-cat made, the one about the demon lord’s magician which had great animation.
| @elijahonline Yeah, but I'm also fairly certain the budget on this won't be that low. The producer, Crunchyroll should be well aware of how popular this story is and it would be stupid of them not to take advantage of that fact by producing a total flop. And this is just my opinion from a business based standpoint, good marketing to show off this and get more attention towards it would be helpful. But giving it a good production is generally more helpful than anything else. Shows that are arguably mediocre can become popular despite their story and characters because their production makes them look very appealing to watch and so it also increases their popularity which financially is very important for the companies making this. Because TBATE's first arc is honestly the weakest in quite a few ways though not bad, It's most important now at the first season for A-CAT to produce above average visuals and adaption then keep making more seasons, because they could end up with a total cash producing product. I mean as an example Frieren was already a pretty good manga but it's popularity really only took off massively about halfway through the first seasons airing and while it's animation was certainly very good it was also not to the level of highly praised anime productions. But due to how well they adapted the manga accurately and spent their budget where it was needed most. They made a solid show that also boosted the manga popularity too. And the reason was simple, it was good and because of that people themselves recommended it and spread the word. So in a sense despite the story being the weakest at the beginning (xD) this first season is gonna be the most important for the shows financial success. Because as the story continues the show would likely become even more successful because it is good. A popular show makes more money and generally a good show becomes popular which generally will make more sequels and possibly make a better production due to it's popularity. None of this actually means anything for whether or not TBATE's adaption will be good or not because as I said there's a ton that goes into these projects that can make it a flop or a hit and this is all just me guessing. But in my personal opinion if they make decisions that screw this up they're losing out on a potentially very successful and financially beneficial show. At the end of the day Crunchyroll and Studio A-CAT, just like any other studio is a company that has employees with lives to pay so let's cross fingers they also wanna make this succeed because the company and it's employees will benefit from it also. I really don't like making assumptions or guesses like this but it just simply wouldn't make sense for Crunchyroll and A-CAT to let this show flop regardless of how bad A-CAT's reputation is because this is the best story this studio has ended up adapting so far. |
MewsicMagicOct 26, 2024 6:07 PM
Reply to vesamija8
MewsicMagic said:
Yeah, I know it might sound dumb at first look but hear me out. There's a lot of stuff that goes into making an anime and while the studio and staff is certainly a very important part. It's not the largest deciding factor on whether or not an adaption flops or is good. An example is the extremely increasing problem seen more recently even in adaptions that haven't flopped and that is production issues/production hell. Last crusade completely stopped airing after episode 5 and is being remade due to production being that bad. That one yuri anime from spring 2024 season is STILL delayed and hasn't finished all it's episodes. Train to the end of the world was a solid production and an anime original. However staff from the project posted that production was getting rough near the last 2-3 episodes with them barely finishing a couple days before airing. In that case only the last episode was delayed by 1 week and animation was still solid. However it goes to show that management problems are becoming one of the biggest factors killing adaptions right now and there's many studio's struggling with it. I don't know much about turtleme as a person or a creator, but he put things on hiatus for months to resolve the production problems and art quality for his fans. So given his clear intent to provide his fans with a quality story and him taking a position at the studio supervising the project it seems like he wants a good adaption for his story and is personally seeing that it meets his standard. Studio A-CAT's reputation might be mediocre (at best) but I hope turtleme will do a good job making sure this adaption meets a good standard. Besides the teaser they released while it's short and doesn't show that much of what we'll actually be getting didn't look half bad animation wise and the art looked pretty accurate to the comic/manga art. So while yes Studio A-CAT definitely isn't the best choice for a quality adaption they won't necessarily be what ruins it or makes it a bad watch.
That's just my opinion though specifically from my general project production based knowledge with somewhat limited knowledge of the anime industry's workings. I'm interested in hearing anyone else's opinions and maybe someone else has better knowledge of the anime industry or has worked in it and knows better.
Yeah, I know it might sound dumb at first look but hear me out. There's a lot of stuff that goes into making an anime and while the studio and staff is certainly a very important part. It's not the largest deciding factor on whether or not an adaption flops or is good. An example is the extremely increasing problem seen more recently even in adaptions that haven't flopped and that is production issues/production hell. Last crusade completely stopped airing after episode 5 and is being remade due to production being that bad. That one yuri anime from spring 2024 season is STILL delayed and hasn't finished all it's episodes. Train to the end of the world was a solid production and an anime original. However staff from the project posted that production was getting rough near the last 2-3 episodes with them barely finishing a couple days before airing. In that case only the last episode was delayed by 1 week and animation was still solid. However it goes to show that management problems are becoming one of the biggest factors killing adaptions right now and there's many studio's struggling with it. I don't know much about turtleme as a person or a creator, but he put things on hiatus for months to resolve the production problems and art quality for his fans. So given his clear intent to provide his fans with a quality story and him taking a position at the studio supervising the project it seems like he wants a good adaption for his story and is personally seeing that it meets his standard. Studio A-CAT's reputation might be mediocre (at best) but I hope turtleme will do a good job making sure this adaption meets a good standard. Besides the teaser they released while it's short and doesn't show that much of what we'll actually be getting didn't look half bad animation wise and the art looked pretty accurate to the comic/manga art. So while yes Studio A-CAT definitely isn't the best choice for a quality adaption they won't necessarily be what ruins it or makes it a bad watch.
That's just my opinion though specifically from my general project production based knowledge with somewhat limited knowledge of the anime industry's workings. I'm interested in hearing anyone else's opinions and maybe someone else has better knowledge of the anime industry or has worked in it and knows better.
It's true that most studios suffer from a bad schedule, but that's not as crucial as you think, if we're going to weigh between what's more important, a good studio/staff or a good schedule, it's obvious what they'd choose. All the examples of management problems you cite are minor projects made by smaller studios (some of which were A-cat level), which only tells us how important a good studio and staff are. As you said you don't understand enough about this industry (I'm not trying to insult you). Since you don't understand how things work on Tappas either, I'll enlighten you. Sorry if you already know this but I'll repeat everything from the beginning, Turtleme is a creator from TBATE, he wrote a web novel but he's not an artist, the one who drew the webtoon was Fuyuki until chupter 175, then Tappas decided to cut Fuyuki's salary and he finally gave up, then came a break that didn't last months but a year and a half, the break is not Turtleme Me's decision but an inevitable measure, if there are no artist there are no webtoon. According to the contract that exists between the creator and Tappas, 70% of the earnings go to the creator (Turtleme) and 30% to Tappas (the company that officially publishes TBATE webnovel and webtoon as well as many others). Tappas hired Fuyuki (that is, the company he is under) and he was paid out of Tappas's pocket. Don't let that 30% percent fool you into thinking they didn't have the money to keep him, on Tappas there are so many other webtoons and webnovels that can keep artists even though they are much less popular, if you think they paid him more because TBATE is popular then go on Tappas and compare TBATE's views, likes and subs to Solo leveling (which is also from Tappas by the way) and wonder how they could keep their artist. I digress a bit, after a year and a half of searching/training or whatever, Tappas hired a new artist and after 13 chupters they decided he wasn't good enough, so after a three month break they found this one now. What I wanted to say is that Turtleme didn't decide to go on hiatus, but there was no other option since Tappas literally kicked out an artist who was there from the beginning, who in those five years raised his skills from amateur level to the level of art that everyone envies, the one they will never find again.
I won't deny Turtleme's will and desire to make this as good as possible but know that everything has its limits especially when it comes to anime production, if the studio and investors have the will to make something out of this then maybe they have some chances but if they are going to make this into a generic isekai (new the Japanese name is a bit worrisome) then Turtleme can't do anything. Turtleme is not a producer but a writer, webnovels, webtoons, mangas are very different from anime (in terms of medium). Even the best adaptations from the best studios can have major cut content problems. He is the supervisor this time, but if you didn't know, in the vast majority of animes the authors are completely uninvolved in the production. Don't look for sense in Chrunchyroll, they are known for making stupid decisions. Tappas too. We normal people are not able to understand what is happening in the greedy heads of the people at the top, but what is certain is that lately they are making decisions that later backfire on them.
| @vesamija8 The example I gave we're from relatively smaller studios but out of them silver link isn't quite that small anymore, and even much larger studios like mappa of all studios had the same thing with Jujutsu Kaisen S2 due to not only a poor schedule but poor management refusing to delay things till they were done. I realize turtleme is a writer, but you don't have to be a director or an animator to tell if something is bad. If that we're the case no one would be complaining about poor quality in rushed anime. Also I'm pretty sure that 99% of the time the original authors aren't credited as a supervisor just the original creator which is why I think he's actually doing something in the making of the anime. Sure the staff and studio at A-CAT might not have a great reputation but they also haven't really adapted anything that was really good either. If you give a good studio a crap manga to adapt there's only so much they can do to not make the show crap without changing it into something totally different. Likewise if you give a crap studio a good manga they may not make an adaption that lives up to the quality of the original story. I personally don't believe a studio can be "crap" necessarily. There are certainly studio's that lack talented staff to work on projects but I don't personally believe the talent of the staff at the studio is gonna be the make or break part of the adaption. Any studio is capable of making a bad adaption, as in an anime adaption that falls short of it's original story. And while Crunchyroll certainly has their issues I wouldn't say they're all stupid decisions, it's just the stupid ones they get noticed the most, after all a majority of the people who work at Crunchyroll are "normal" people. And even the higher ups who are less "normal" aren't necessarily doing things out of greed. It's hard to run a company the larger it gets and they wouldn't make mistakes if they weren't "normal" people. |
Reply to vesamija8
MewsicMagic said:
@vesamija8 The example I gave we're from relatively smaller studios but out of them silver link isn't quite that small anymore, and even much larger studios like mappa of all studios had the same thing with Jujutsu Kaisen S2 due to not only a poor schedule but poor management refusing to delay things till they were done. I realize turtleme is a writer, but you don't have to be a director or an animator to tell if something is bad. If that we're the case no one would be complaining about poor quality in rushed anime. Also I'm pretty sure that 99% of the time the original authors aren't credited as a supervisor just the original creator which is why I think he's actually doing something in the making of the anime. Sure the staff and studio at A-CAT might not have a great reputation but they also haven't really adapted anything that was really good either. If you give a good studio a crap manga to adapt there's only so much they can do to not make the show crap without changing it into something totally different. Likewise if you give a crap studio a good manga they may not make an adaption that lives up to the quality of the original story. I personally don't believe a studio can be "crap" necessarily. There are certainly studio's that lack talented staff to work on projects but I don't personally believe the talent of the staff at the studio is gonna be the make or break part of the adaption. Any studio is capable of making a bad adaption, as in an anime adaption that falls short of it's original story. And while Crunchyroll certainly has their issues I wouldn't say they're all stupid decisions, it's just the stupid ones they get noticed the most, after all a majority of the people who work at Crunchyroll are "normal" people. And even the higher ups who are less "normal" aren't necessarily doing things out of greed. It's hard to run a company the larger it gets and they wouldn't make mistakes if they weren't "normal" people.
@vesamija8 The example I gave we're from relatively smaller studios but out of them silver link isn't quite that small anymore, and even much larger studios like mappa of all studios had the same thing with Jujutsu Kaisen S2 due to not only a poor schedule but poor management refusing to delay things till they were done. I realize turtleme is a writer, but you don't have to be a director or an animator to tell if something is bad. If that we're the case no one would be complaining about poor quality in rushed anime. Also I'm pretty sure that 99% of the time the original authors aren't credited as a supervisor just the original creator which is why I think he's actually doing something in the making of the anime. Sure the staff and studio at A-CAT might not have a great reputation but they also haven't really adapted anything that was really good either. If you give a good studio a crap manga to adapt there's only so much they can do to not make the show crap without changing it into something totally different. Likewise if you give a crap studio a good manga they may not make an adaption that lives up to the quality of the original story. I personally don't believe a studio can be "crap" necessarily. There are certainly studio's that lack talented staff to work on projects but I don't personally believe the talent of the staff at the studio is gonna be the make or break part of the adaption. Any studio is capable of making a bad adaption, as in an anime adaption that falls short of it's original story. And while Crunchyroll certainly has their issues I wouldn't say they're all stupid decisions, it's just the stupid ones they get noticed the most, after all a majority of the people who work at Crunchyroll are "normal" people. And even the higher ups who are less "normal" aren't necessarily doing things out of greed. It's hard to run a company the larger it gets and they wouldn't make mistakes if they weren't "normal" people.
I said that many studios suffer from management problems, not only the small ones, but what I'm trying to say is that these problems are mostly prophesied by the studios themselves (one of the more famous examples is Mappa, as you said), I don't blame them for a lack of skill, but good intentions. When I say good/bad studio/staff I don't just mean their skills but also whether they take the job seriously, are they too greedy. For example, I consider pirrot to be a "crap" studio, of course the fillers and what they did to tokyo ghoul are annoying... but we can consider it a lack of skill (maybe) so we'll forgive them, but Back Clover is another story. In short, the animation of Black Clover when we look at it in terms of quality was not bad, especially when we discuss Acat, we all would like TBATE to get an adaptation like Black Clover, but when you look a little closer, you will see various problems in the animation that are not caused by the poor skill of the staff, but by poor control by studio, Black Cover had a very good budget and good animators (in quality, not quantity), but due to bad scheduling, not putting anyone in the position of animation producer and other bad decisions that did not arise from a lack of skill, there were problems. You don't have to be a veteran to understand that the position used for scheduling, communication between the studio and the animation team and various other things should not be left empty for a long time. I don't have the will, energy, or time to talk about Back Clover's production issues, so go to YouTube and watch some videos if you want. I got a little off topic.
It's possible that all the original material they've adapted so far was bad, so the adaptations were bad, maybe they're actually good, but the fact is that they lack experience (I'm not referring to the staff who may have experience from other projects but the studio itself). You may be right, the talent of the staff will not be as crucial as how that talent will be used by the studio. You don't have to be a director or an animator to notice something wrong, but you do have to be a director or an animator to fix it (I said animator because you said it as an example). We can all see it and the reason we have the opportunity to see it is because these are problems that even the staff who worked on it cannot solve (the situation does not allow them). We can all see it, even the staff who made it, even if they don't see it and if someone told them, nothing much would change unless someone offered a solution.
Let's assume that the studio and all the higher ups have it in their business plans intention to make this as good as possible, let's assume that the studio and staff will do their best, even if Turtleme and the rest of the scripting staff make the best adaptation (in terms story) and that the animators are good enough to animate it properly if they have enough time, in between all of that problems can arise,problems that are completely out of Turtleme's reach, not to mention what it would be like if they had no such intentions. I know I sound very pessimistic and I too would like this adaptation to be as good as possible but I just can't bring myself to believe that it could possibly be.
I expressed myself badly, they make stupid decisions that's true and every human makes mistakes and that's true but what's even bigger problem is that they make greedy decisions like they prioritize quick money instead of product quality, the anime industry is on its industrial peak, you can't say that they are fighting for survival.
I have no hostility towards you, I'm just expressing my opinion.
| @vesamija8 No I totally get it no offensive taken. And to be fair we also have literally no idea of what studio A-CAT is like internally with their projects. I was mostly just basing my stuff from a production not specifically animation production or even anime industry production standpoint. And well at the end of the day I absolutely still agree that it's a fact they could've gotten a much better staff/studio for this but I don't wanna just assume the adaption is gonna be crap because of it. I'm certain we won't get a adaption that's up to par with the hype and higher expectations one might have. So really all we can do is cross our fingers or something that we get a adaption that's at least not "bad" but probably could've been better. |
| TBATE is great. But the studio's previous works are terrible. A surprise is not impossible, but lower your expectations. |
 |
Reply to Rob7
TBATE is great.
But the studio's previous works are terrible.
A surprise is not impossible, but lower your expectations.
But the studio's previous works are terrible.
A surprise is not impossible, but lower your expectations.
| @Rob7 I never said I had high expectations. I just said don’t immediately assume a garbage adaption just because of studio A cat. Even if it was Wit Studio, Cloverworks or another large studio with a good reputation I still wouldn’t put high expectations on the adaption. Yes, we’ve seen great adaptions, but the studio is only a part of what makes a good adaption good. Besides an adaption is also limited by its source material and Studio A Cat hasn’t done anything that good really. There’s many shows that have rather average animation but are still good adaptions due to good directing. Even if the animation from A-Cat is average the adaption can still be good if you get my meaning. My personal expectations are on a decent adaption with average animation quality. Even just looking at the trailers I’m sure the adaption and certainly animation could be better. But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making, which I think is unlikely given they should be well aware of the popularity of the source material. In the event the adaption actually turns out to be crap. Well, I guess we can all scream and complain all over the internet and hope it gets loud enough to make crunchyroll, who's producing this adaption to fix it. I mean if Kimisen can get scrapped and have the season be remade better this show could too if the adaption is actually crap. |
MewsicMagicDec 12, 2024 9:22 PM
MewsicMagic said: My personal expectations are on a decent adaption with average animation quality. Even just looking at the trailers I’m sure the adaption and certainly animation could be better. But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making, which I think is unlikely given they should be well aware of the popularity of the source material "But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making" (I will just expose a point below, don't get triggered, altough you guys always do) well... EVERY SEASON - we have dozens of authors of source media who loved their own works, gaining anime adaptations. EVERY SEASON - we have studios and producer companies employing hundreds or thousands workers and executives, working hard, seriously, giving all the shit they can, to get money on these adaptations. EVERY SEASON - we have all these anime works competing savagely each other for the attention and money of japanese audience, in a country that is not so rich like decades ago. AND YET EVERY SEASON - we have lots of "trash", no matter all the professional care, money and hard work dispended. What it means? That we, fans, we are naturally too exigent and a well made anime is not just a question of "giving shit" or "don't wanting to ruin", but a question of a HUGE investiment, in the best studios and best professionals of the industry. And naturally, again, just a minor part of anime releases can achieve that. Quality is rare. Trash is the rule. So, unless we have factual data about a good investiment on this TBATE project, chances are that it is going to be disapointing the average taste of anime fans here. |
|
Reply to Rob7
MewsicMagic said:
My personal expectations are on a decent adaption with average animation quality. Even just looking at the trailers I’m sure the adaption and certainly animation could be better. But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making, which I think is unlikely given they should be well aware of the popularity of the source material
My personal expectations are on a decent adaption with average animation quality. Even just looking at the trailers I’m sure the adaption and certainly animation could be better. But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making, which I think is unlikely given they should be well aware of the popularity of the source material
"But I doubt it’s gonna ruin the show unless they actually try to ruin it or just don’t give a shit about what they’re making"
(I will just expose a point below, don't get triggered, altough you guys always do)
well...
EVERY SEASON
- we have dozens of authors of source media who loved their own works, gaining anime adaptations.
EVERY SEASON
- we have studios and producer companies employing hundreds or thousands workers and executives, working hard, seriously, giving all the shit they can, to get money on these adaptations.
EVERY SEASON
- we have all these anime works competing savagely each other for the attention and money of japanese audience, in a country that is not so rich like decades ago.
AND YET
EVERY SEASON
- we have lots of "trash", no matter all the professional care, money and hard work dispended.
What it means? That we, fans, we are naturally too exigent and a well made anime is not just a question of "giving shit" or "don't wanting to ruin", but a question of a HUGE investiment, in the best studios and best professionals of the industry. And naturally, again, just a minor part of anime releases can achieve that.
Quality is rare.
Trash is the rule.
So, unless we have factual data about a good investiment on this TBATE project, chances are that it is going to be disapointing the average taste of anime fans here.
| @Rob7 I’m actually just confused as to what exactly you are trying to say here? It does not take thousands of people to make a good anime. Most studios have at the most a few hundred people working on a project at a time. UFO table only has like 300? Or so employees and not all of them animate or work on the shows. Now, maybe if your expectation is a production with the level of polish and budget as high as something like attack on titan, jujutsu kaisen, or one punch man. Then yes every anime season releases lots of piles of trash. I don’t think most people are expecting TBATE to have top tier production. The question wasn’t whether TBATE was gonna have top tier production. It was whether or not Studio A CAT would produce a garbage production. I also don’t believe top tier animation is as hard to come by as you think it is. There’s A LOT of very talented people working in the anime industry. And many of them are given the ability to show off what they’re capable of, many are also not given that chance. There are a lot of factors at play in a production that can affect the final result besides just budget and talented staff, although those are very important ones. Another thing to mention is, the vast majority of anime that have had horridly bad production have been more recent ones. And the reason wasn’t due to a low budget, incapable staff, nor even that they didn’t care about it. It was mis management, Blue Lock is currently a total mess, because the management for the project is horrible and nothing is finished in time. Most anime fans would likely be happy with the production if there is a minimum standard met for animation production quality. And the directing and accuracy of the adaption is good. I’ve seen people praising animation in anime on this site from anime with a production quality that’s maybe above average at best and the animation had a lot of obvious cut corners. Pretty much none of your “EVERY SEASON” point may even apply to this TBATE adaption except maybe how high the budget is. And generally, even shows that have a low budget get a budget high enough to produce a show where the animation isn’t that big a factor in whether it’s good or not. I’ve seen many well made shows that were certainly low budget productions, because the team and project adapted to design and make the show to work within their budget. Yes, there has been a uplift in trash recently. But it’s not even the fault of studios every time it happens. Every work adapted by Studio A Cat, has quite low ratings on MAL for BOTH the anime and the source material. I dare say, TBATE is probably the first “good” work they’re getting to adapt. At the end of the day you can have your opinion I can have mine, but production just simply doesn’t work with the way your point puts it. I didn’t make this forum post originally to argue over a point, I didn’t even want to say Studio A Cat was gonna make a good adaption. I was simply stating that people shouldn’t immediately scream and assume a garbage tier adaption because of them. And gave my opinion from working in a production environment as to why. This discussion had more than gotten its point and run its course a while ago so I won’t bother saying any more on this fact. |
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