Muv-Luv Alternative Episode 1 Discussion

Nachotee said:

Pretty much, yeah, unless you rush/skip through dialogues/scenes and skip all voicelines. First novel is about 10-ish hours (depending on how many routes you do) 2nd <40hs and alt is ~80-90hs. Even just going by the (likely underestimated) length in vndb it's anywhere from 100 to 150hs depending on how slowly you go through them.

lanphung said:

They most certainly will go with a slightly original story (like Koichoco anime) by adding original chars. Imo this anime will mainly target VN-readers since it has many details only VN-readers will understand. like . Like you said they use a lot of lore-specific terms like "laser", "soilder", "hive" which wasn't different from the briefing where they give details about the BETA. They did a good job in portraying humanity fighting a losing battle against alien invaders and our only hope is a bunch of piloted-mechas firing depleted uranium rounds (which they described as lead, curiously). I doubt they are going to run through to the end of Alternative though. That visual novel is easily 50+ hr read and it'd be criminal to gloss over important events.

Manu_0 said:


No lmao, the average time for alternative is 50-60 hours and this anime is only adapting that part, if it took you 90 hours to read alternative alone then you're just slow, even then they said this series could have more seasons, which is likely to happen.

You're just lying about the length of the VN to reinforce your point.

Kahirama said:


There definitely were high ups. Thank god they are not afraid to show some gore otherwise it wouldn't be that impactful.

We'll see how far can this adaptation go, but I don't expect it to be among the better VN adaptations like Steins;Gate, CLANNAD or Higurashi (including only anime I actually read the VN of).

Still, to enjoy an anime doesn't take that much. And hopefully this anime does it's job to promote the visual novel.

lanphung said:

There seems to be 2 types of visual novels that absolutely will go right in anime:
1) Ones that are action-packed, hot gal-feel like Fate.
2) The "narrative-driven" ones like higurashi/steins;gate with interesting premises and engaging story.

MLA is somewhere in the middle. It's absolutely packed with monologues and world-building details while having some pretty intense battle sequences that REALLY make you feel like being in the middle of a war. With all that i think the more easier plan would to appeal to VN-readers for that BD sales since people who love MLA will absolutely want to have this in the collections. Also a catch-up for the upcoming Integrate which is alternative's sequel

Kahirama said:


Yea, I hope it will at least have some appeal to people who love MLA. The memorable scenes are yet to come...

Also is there some info about Integrate? When is it common out and so on? I really like the Alternative universe and want to read everything set there. That said, there certainly are a lot of entries like photonflowers, photonmelodies, TDA, Total Eclipse, the upcoming sequel, no idea when will I have time for all of this. Especially because Rewrite+ is also coming out and Muramasa is on my list... Well, I'm glad there isn't a shortage of good VNs.

lanphung said:

Somewhere next year, i think. In 3 languages at that. Glad they decided to appeal to western market first and foremost.

Nachotee said:

Pretty much, yeah, unless you rush/skip through dialogues/scenes and skip all voicelines. First novel is about 10-ish hours (depending on how many routes you do) 2nd <40hs and alt is ~80-90hs. Even just going by the (likely underestimated) length in vndb it's anywhere from 100 to 150hs depending on how slowly you go through them.

Graciaus said:
No it isn't. I finished the first (3/5 routes) and second game (full clear) in 28 hours. The 3rd in 34.

Pietru said:
Not as bad as I thought it would be but still a flop jesus christ lol

lanphung said:

Expecting too much and getting disappointed. Classic duo.

Pietru said:

My expectations were at an all low and they still got betrayed somehow, just really annoying that one of the best visual novels (if not the best) out there is going to get such a bad start

Manu_0 said:


No lmao, the average time for alternative is 50-60 hours and this anime is only adapting that part, if it took you 90 hours to read alternative alone then you're just slow, even then they said this series could have more seasons, which is likely to happen.

You're just lying about the length of the VN to reinforce your point.

Nachotee said:


I've read it 2 or 3 times, 60hs is a pretty tight timeframe in which you most certainly skipped shit. Someone saying I reAd iT iN 30 HoUrS means nothing, anyone can rush through any novel in 30 minutes with the fastforward button.

And if they adapt only alternative then this is going to be bad as well, the reason alt is good is because extra and unlimited come before it, with no context from them Alt is like half as good.

Manu_0 said:


It literally says "slow" in your screenshot, most people can complete it in 50-60 hours without skipping stuff, that's the average time as it's mentioned on Vndb, I don't know why you're mentioning "30 hours" when no one said that. Again, 90 hours is an exaggeration, you're just a slow reader

We already knew they were only gonna adapt alternative, that's literally the name of the show, it isn't gonna be a faithful/good adaptation, that was already obvious.

Nachotee said:

Nothing of what you're saying is related to the point of my comment.

Lelouch0202 said:
I quite liked this, I liked the setting and the atmosphere projects despair everywhere but that might be what makes it compelling cause you want to see it end in success.

As an anime only who's knowledge of Muv-Luv extends to only ever knowing that it exists, is it even worth watching this? Alternative is the sequel to Muv-Luv right? Can I watch this without knowing anything about it? I realize the VN is the best way to experience but I really don't know when I would ever be able to get around to investing the time into a lengthy VN.

Lelouch0202 said:
I quite liked this, I liked the setting and the atmosphere projects despair everywhere but that might be what makes it compelling cause you want to see it end in success.

As an anime only who's knowledge of Muv-Luv extends to only ever knowing that it exists, is it even worth watching this? Alternative is the sequel to Muv-Luv right? Can I watch this without knowing anything about it? I realize the VN is the best way to experience but I really don't know when I would ever be able to get around to investing the time into a lengthy VN.

barthos said:


It's the final part of the VN trilogy. Sure you can watch this it but you will ruin the experience yourself tbh. I don't know how it's serve as newcomers as they claimed. What makes Muv Luv trilogy so highly acclaimed is how Takeru copes with transition life from high school life (Extra) to military training (Unlimited) and finally faces the insanity shit in the Alternative.

This is one of the main inspiration of Attack on Titan creation if you don't know. Even Isayama has gone through the original trilogy, what makes anime only people think watching one cour of Alternative is a good idea ?

In the end only VN reader will pissed off every week and you anime only probably will not care at all.

For addition,this adaptation is just equivalent to (my opinion )

- skipping Attack on Titan to season 4 without watching the previous season
- straight jumping to Clannad After story witout Clannad

lanphung said:

Well umeniko should be a warning...

Gritoit said:
I'm going into this series blind and have to say the first episode was great! It gave us lots of info and got right into the action. The fighting was brutal, kind of hoping it stays this way. It's refreshing compared to some series where no matter how bad things get no one ever dies.

Few small gripes like the (Fort?) class BETA looking kind of silly and the wall falling down section by section from just the one Beta landing on a single section.

DaBackpack said:
Not sure what you guys were expecting. They're only adapting Alternative, so the entirety of the buildup and world-building from Unlimited had to be done somehow. Consider how Alternative started... for example, the Yuuko confrontation. There is a 0% chance a general audience would understand a literal adaptation of the opening of MLA because of how much the context of Unlimited matters. It would be dead on arrival. So, the anime tackled the intro from a different angle--- one that at least introduces the setting to the audience, similar to Total Eclipse.

Throughout Unlimited, the threat of the BETA was actually pretty distant, because Takeru never really directly faced it until... a certain sequence in Alternative. That would not fly in an anime adaptation, no matter how much that sucks for us VN readers. Imagine having half of an anime with the audience having no real understanding of the horror of these creatures. That shit wouldn't fly.

This narrative tactic worked in the VNs because there were NUMEROUS plot threads to keep you thinking and to direct your attention, and... well, Takeru was fairly well-developed at that point. The trauma reveal worked because it was a slow-burn: the writers were very disciplined in waiting for EXACTLY the right moment to drop the PTSD bombs. But if you HAVE to adapt Muv-Luv starting from Alternative... I think this is as good a first episode as you can get. It quickly briefs you on the setting, the stakes, and gives you a glimpse of the horrors of the enemy force.

It copied the SnK opening because that shit WORKED. It was their best route given that this anime had to exist. Honestly, the problem isn't really this episode, as much as the fact that they decided to make this into an anime in the first place.

I would rather the studio make the anime GOOD, even if it makes dramatic changes to the source material. At least with a good anime, you can get randos interested in the source material. But a poorly structured, literal adaptation that sucks ass helps nobody... the randos will assume that "Muv-Luv sucks" (as we see all the goddamn time with VN adaptations), and the MLA fans will just be frustrated because nothing works.

Smudy said:
Is everyone here a source reader? Is it even worth to post my opinion as anime-only cause i liked this start, was really intense and showed no remorse, really set the tone for i should expect here.

Gritoit said:
I'm going into this series blind and have to say the first episode was great! It gave us lots of info and got right into the action. The fighting was brutal, kind of hoping it stays this way. It's refreshing compared to some series where no matter how bad things get no one ever dies.

Few small gripes like the (Fort?) class BETA looking kind of silly and the wall falling down section by section from just the one Beta landing on a single section.

DaBackpack said:
Not sure what you guys were expecting. They're only adapting Alternative, so the entirety of the buildup and world-building from Unlimited had to be done somehow. Consider how Alternative started... for example, the Yuuko confrontation. There is a 0% chance a general audience would understand a literal adaptation of the opening of MLA because of how much the context of Unlimited matters. It would be dead on arrival. So, the anime tackled the intro from a different angle--- one that at least introduces the setting to the audience, similar to Total Eclipse.

Throughout Unlimited, the threat of the BETA was actually pretty distant, because Takeru never really directly faced it until... a certain sequence in Alternative. That would not fly in an anime adaptation, no matter how much that sucks for us VN readers. Imagine having half of an anime with the audience having no real understanding of the horror of these creatures. That shit wouldn't fly.

This narrative tactic worked in the VNs because there were NUMEROUS plot threads to keep you thinking and to direct your attention, and... well, Takeru was fairly well-developed at that point. The trauma reveal worked because it was a slow-burn: the writers were very disciplined in waiting for EXACTLY the right moment to drop the PTSD bombs. But if you HAVE to adapt Muv-Luv starting from Alternative... I think this is as good a first episode as you can get. It quickly briefs you on the setting, the stakes, and gives you a glimpse of the horrors of the enemy force.

It copied the SnK opening because that shit WORKED. It was their best route given that this anime had to exist. Honestly, the problem isn't really this episode, as much as the fact that they decided to make this into an anime in the first place.

I would rather the studio make the anime GOOD, even if it makes dramatic changes to the source material. At least with a good anime, you can get randos interested in the source material. But a poorly structured, literal adaptation that sucks ass helps nobody... the randos will assume that "Muv-Luv sucks" (as we see all the goddamn time with VN adaptations), and the MLA fans will just be frustrated because nothing works.

DaBackpack said:
Not sure what you guys were expecting. They're only adapting Alternative, so the entirety of the buildup and world-building from Unlimited had to be done somehow. Consider how Alternative started... for example, the Yuuko confrontation. There is a 0% chance a general audience would understand a literal adaptation of the opening of MLA because of how much the context of Unlimited matters. It would be dead on arrival. So, the anime tackled the intro from a different angle--- one that at least introduces the setting to the audience, similar to Total Eclipse.

Throughout Unlimited, the threat of the BETA was actually pretty distant, because Takeru never really directly faced it until... a certain sequence in Alternative. That would not fly in an anime adaptation, no matter how much that sucks for us VN readers. Imagine having half of an anime with the audience having no real understanding of the horror of these creatures. That shit wouldn't fly.

This narrative tactic worked in the VNs because there were NUMEROUS plot threads to keep you thinking and to direct your attention, and... well, Takeru was fairly well-developed at that point. The trauma reveal worked because it was a slow-burn: the writers were very disciplined in waiting for EXACTLY the right moment to drop the PTSD bombs. But if you HAVE to adapt Muv-Luv starting from Alternative... I think this is as good a first episode as you can get. It quickly briefs you on the setting, the stakes, and gives you a glimpse of the horrors of the enemy force.

It copied the SnK opening because that shit WORKED. It was their best route given that this anime had to exist. Honestly, the problem isn't really this episode, as much as the fact that they decided to make this into an anime in the first place.

I would rather the studio make the anime GOOD, even if it makes dramatic changes to the source material. At least with a good anime, you can get randos interested in the source material. But a poorly structured, literal adaptation that sucks ass helps nobody... the randos will assume that "Muv-Luv sucks" (as we see all the goddamn time with VN adaptations), and the MLA fans will just be frustrated because nothing works.

OppaiSugoi said:


This thing is Dead on Arrival though. Just how much is age willing to shoehorn in 1 cour and start off with an anime only ep is beyond me. First mistake is Alt, why not extra or unlimited? Second mistake and third mistake is the aforementioned 1 cour and anime only ep. Jesus my head hurts just thinking about this adaptation. Could be that this is SAO all over again, I would not be surprised if they had to do ALOT of skips just to conform to the episode time constraints. How could this be a good adaptation when they have to skin it to the bones? (Plot Spoiler but who cares since this adaptation is a spoiler in itself)

Thai777 said:


As far as I know, SAO didn't skip stuff, the novel was written that way.

Anyway, I completely agree with the one before you. A good representation of the VN was impossible to start with. The way the story of the VN was made and the highlights of the VN are just incompatible with the anime. Add the sheer lenght of 3 VN and having to adapt it all... you would be better trying in an alternate dimension than this one. No person would ever attempt such a high risk low reward adaptation.

The best thing to expect from the adaptation is that it deliver a good original story or a good rewritten story instead of an actual adaptation and interest newcomer. Stop doomposting.

OppaiSugoi said:


What do you mean by incompatible with the anime? We don’t even know what they’re adapting at this point. Sure it’s pretty for anime only viewers but as a source reader, my first impression is “what tf is this? Why is this here?” Having 3 studios on this adaptation is high risk already. Having to rewrite the story is near impossible at this point since there are so many events that happen in the vn. Age didn’t say that this was all anime original.

Death to Anime.

OppaiSugoi said:


What do you mean by incompatible with the anime? We don’t even know what they’re adapting at this point. Sure it’s pretty for anime only viewers but as a source reader, my first impression is “what tf is this? Why is this here?” Having 3 studios on this adaptation is high risk already. Having to rewrite the story is near impossible at this point since there are so many events that happen in the vn. Age didn’t say that this was all anime original.

Death to Anime.

BerriesSan said:

Also, wtf beta have red blood? Weren't they aliens? Well, nothing new. Muvluv science has always sucked.
>

dailybread said:

should we tell him?

Thai777 said:


It's incompatible because the story rely on you getting into Takeru's shoes. That why we have to go through extra and unlimited. In anime format not only you lose part of that because it's not made to be a first person POV (correct me if you know any anime that does it well), you also have to go through it weekly, for half a year just for Extra + unlimited (assuming 2 cour for it) and then have a season break before alternative.

I also imagine won't be anywhere close to what it feel like in the VN because of 3rd person view again.

Another good point of the VN was how BETA were never shown until halfway through alternative and that impossible to replicate because it will take forever to pay off with season breaks, anime-only getting bored and the existence of many Muv-Luv spinoff anime that already showed BETA.

Let's also take into account that many anime watcher watch a lot of show every season. Muv-Luv will just be "one" of those anime. Even worse if they start with extra. Some will persist and go through unlimited and finally some will reach alternative but many will drop it along the way. Basically, it's a mega slow burn when the anime landscape currently is filled with instant satisfying anime.

Finally this is a nitpick but I can bet anime-only will be asking question through all of Muv-Luv if it was adapted properly and having to wait until all of Muv-Luv extra and unlimited and alternative before getting some answer will probably reduce even more the number of anime watcher.

Don't get me wrong. I wanted Muv-Luv to success for VN reader who liked it. But we have to draw a line between realistic and idealistic. The anime adaptation is to draw new viewer and any adaptation that get close to the experience of the VN will not do well on that front. Just lower your expectation and don't expect a closely similar experience to the VN. It won't happen, not in this world.